Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: trucker5774 on November 08, 2010, 08:30 PM
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Hi all, I'm still fumbling my way around the forum and trying to not ask the usual new boy questions common to all forums. Having had a good look I'm still not seeing a basic method. I keep reading about a base sauce, but not when and how it is used. What I am getting at is, armed with all the ingredients for a madras, rogan josh or any common curry with a similar method, is there an idiots guide as to what goes in when ......base sauce, meat, spices ghee etc.
Sorry if this has been asked a million times......what do I need to read, please?
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Trucker,
Don't worry mate, ask away.
Most of the main dishes posted on here will ask for a quantity of base sauce and will state when to add it.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?PHPSESSID=3971e4159862a90e7c3021c4365ab6ac&board=3.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?PHPSESSID=3971e4159862a90e7c3021c4365ab6ac&board=3.0)
Click that link, and it should take you straight to the main course sections.
Hope that helps,
Ray :)
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Thanks Ray. I can see that now. Just wondered if there was a rule of thumb, or if I had missed a basic section or FAQ somewhere.
Cheers, John
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Thanks Ray. I can see that now. Just wondered if there was a rule of thumb, or if I had missed a basic section or FAQ somewhere.
I don't know if there's a FAQ, or even if all recipes follow the same procedure, but for the style that I cook, heating the base sauce with adequate oil (e.g., 5 tablespoons of oil for 3/4 pints of base sauce) is the starting point. Once that is at a gentle boil, the pre-cooked chicken, ground chillies and salt are added; after about five minutes, the heat is reduced and additional spices added; after a further three minutes, things such as fresh chillies and coriander stalks go in; and after a further couple of minutes the excess oil is poured off, the finished dish garnished with chopped coriander leaf, and served.
** Phil.
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Quite a different approach from me Phil, John.
My Method;
Heat 4 tbs veg oil
Fry off 1.5 tsp garlic/ginger paste (careful, it spits like mad)
Pan off heat, add spices and stir,
Back on low heat, and cook out the spices, stirring all the time for about 30 seconds,
Turn up heat to full, add 100ml of base,
Reduce by half, then add a further 100ml of base,
Reduce again slightly, than add remaining 100ml of base, and precooked meat.
cook on high for about 3-4 mins then add Fresh coriander
Stir through and remove from the heat
Serve with fresh coriander sprinkled on top.
No right way or wrong way I guess, just a different approach for me :)
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Thanks guys. I've had a little time off from Indian and been doing a fair bit of Chinese. Having made up a couple of litres of base sauce do most people freeze it in batch sized amounts?
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My Method;
Heat 4 tbs veg oil
Fry off 1.5 tsp garlic/ginger paste (careful, it spits like mad)
Pan off heat, add spices and stir,
Back on low heat, and cook out the spices, stirring all the time for about 30 seconds,
Turn up heat to full, add 100ml of base,
Reduce by half, then add a further 100ml of base,
Reduce again slightly, than add remaining 100ml of base, and precooked meat.
cook on high for about 3-4 mins then add Fresh coriander
Stir through and remove from the heat
Serve with fresh coriander sprinkled on top.
Hmmm, this is much closer to my old-style "traditional Indian curry" approach, which never really worked for me (clearly it works for Ray !). But a philosophical question : do you think that a typical BIR would use so many distinct stages ? It seems to me that, over time, they must have optimised their methodology to use as few stages as possible ... Just a thought !
** Phil.
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Hi, I use the plastic containers that most chinese restaurants use to freeze batches of base.
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Hi Phil,
I can't say for sure that this is strictly BIR method but I reckon it's pretty close. There are only 8 cooking stages here and they are all done, pretty quickly.
The one thing that I would say that may differ, is the quantity of base sauce that they put in. It's possible that they add it all in one go. They have the kw's to cope though, whereas most domestic burners are what, 2kw?
I add my base in increments purely to retain the heat in the pan and aid reduction.
Ray :)
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Ah well, I can see I shall have to give it a go :)
** Phil.
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Phil, I have had the pleasure of being backstage at one of The Ashoka restaurants and have watched a number of chefs at work in open plan set ups in TAs and other BIRs and Ray's general approach especially adding the base over two or three separate chef spoonfuls is how it's done. Personally I add my tomato puree at the same time as the G/G paste then spice and methi leaves a little water helps too at this stage to avoid burning. As has been my observation I also add two quarters of a tomato with the first spoon of base. If Bunjarra or onions are required they go in ahead of the base. The recipes herevtend to give you the process but I always base it on my first hand instructions from the head chef. PP
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Phil, I have had the pleasure of being backstage at one of The Ashoka restaurants and have watched a number of chefs at work in open plan set ups in TAs and other BIRs and Ray's general approach especially adding the base over two or three separate chef spoonfuls is how it's done. ...
Many thanks, PP : I have never had the privilege of watching an Indian (or Pakistani, or Bangladeshi) chef at work, so most of my ideas come from a combination of KD & experience, but it is most useful to know how the real chefs do such things. One thing I have done is watch Chef Harpal Singh Sokhi on video, but only preparing tandoori/tikka and biryani (the last was an eye-opener !) : I shall go back to see if he demonstrates anything as "simple" [1] as a Chicken Madras.
Later : OK, I searched for the Chef's version of Chicken Madras (or similar) but I was unsuccessful -- the nearest I can find is Mutton Rogan Josh. But the video is definitely worth watching, particularly as it uses no base sauce : http://www.desivideonetwork.com/view/z61j957uv/mutton-rogan-josh/ (http://www.desivideonetwork.com/view/z61j957uv/mutton-rogan-josh/)
** Phil
[1] "Simple" in quotes because it it really were simple, this forum would not exist !
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As has been my observation I also add two quarters of a tomato with the first spoon of base.
I find that if I do that they disappear into the sauce by the time the curry is cooked. I add tomato quarters at the end, just before I turn the flame off.
The only way I could see tomatoes withstanding any cooking and still look like tomato pieces is if they're those monstrous varieties found in supermarkets that taste of nothing and are usually as hard as snooker balls because they are severely under ripe.
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The only way I could see tomatoes withstanding any cooking and still look like tomato pieces is if they're those monstrous varieties found in supermarkets that taste of nothing and are usually as hard as snooker balls because they are severely under ripe.
Which, for some inexplicable reason, my wife prefers ! (I prefer cherry tomatos, on the vine, but never cook tomatoes at all).
** Phil.
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Yep ,with Razor on this one , Spices need to be fried in oil to get the best flavour except Garam Masala which can be added near the end of cooking. As far as adding slices of Tomato I add a few slices after the Curry is finished as a sort of garnish I find a fresh Tomato ( straight from fridge ) goes well with the hot Curry.
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Hi Guy's,
I add tomato quarters at the end, just before I turn the flame off.
Spot on SS, that's the way I do it but only in a Jal Frezi, never add tomato in anything else!
Ray :)
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trucker5774,
the basic questions are always the best. we are all keen to hep so just post when you get stuck. the search button works a treat too.
interesting on method. another to add to the pot:
1) flame on full add oil, g/g - quick fry until aroma
2) pan off heat, add puree, spices, chilli, salt, 1 chef spoon base - stir till mixed
3) back on heat fry till aroma - judging this is the trickiest part (no more than say 60 secs for me - sort of as soon as the liquid had dried around the pan rim)
4) add base 1 off chef spoon at a time
5) cook till surface craters or oil rises
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Thanks SS for feedback re the two quarter pieces of tomato. Your right they just merge into the sauce but give it something. It is done in every kitchen I have been in or from observing curry being cooked but again we are talking as ever about regional variation here. As ever too Jerry's summary would be great for anybody to follow IMHO.PP
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trucker, just to add my tuppence worth, the posts by razor, panpot and jerrym are the way I do it i.e. oil, puree, spices, base in stages then final flavourings, e.g. lemon juice, coconut block etc.
If you want an article as to why it's done like this then the 2008 Bruce Edwards posts describes this in some detail.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2815.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2815.0)
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trucker5774,
the basic questions are always the best. we are all keen to hep so just post when you get stuck. the search button works a treat too.
interesting on method. another to add to the pot:
1) flame on full add oil, g/g - quick fry until aroma
2) pan off heat, add puree, spices, chilli, salt, 1 chef spoon base - stir till mixed
3) back on heat fry till aroma - judging this is the trickiest part (no more than say 60 secs for me - sort of as soon as the liquid had dried around the pan rim)
4) add base 1 off chef spoon at a time
5) cook till surface craters or oil rises
JerryM , am I right in thinking you put your Spices in at the same time as Base Sauce ?
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I took this to mean sequential rather than all in at once but worth clarifying
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trucker5774,
the basic questions are always the best. we are all keen to hep so just post when you get stuck. the search button works a treat too.
interesting on method. another to add to the pot:
1) flame on full add oil, g/g - quick fry until aroma
2) pan off heat, add puree, spices, chilli, salt, 1 chef spoon base - stir till mixed
3) back on heat fry till aroma - judging this is the trickiest part (no more than say 60 secs for me - sort of as soon as the liquid had dried around the pan rim)
4) add base 1 off chef spoon at a time
5) cook till surface craters or oil rises
...........and the meat at the end...cooked? uncooked? Sorry Jerry, I don't mean to be a pain. I have cooked curries for years, but want to go in as a complete novice and begin a new experience. ........A little like finding my way around the site. I had a donner kebab tonight after a beer or two :o
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sorry all - initial list was simplistic - thinking there would be little interest.
1) flame on full, add oil, g/g - quick fry until aroma. stirring all the time
2) fry pre cooked chopped onion or un cooked sliced onion /green pepper. the pre cooked until the oil starts to release and the un cooked until they start to brown at the edges and the onion slices break up. stir all the time.
3) pan off heat, add all in 1 go: puree, spices, chilli, salt, bunjarra, 1 chef spoon (4 tbsp) base - stir till mixed.
4) back on heat fry till aroma - judging this is the trickiest part (no more than say 60 secs for me - sort of as soon as the liquid has dried around the pan rim). no stir generally.
5) add pre cooked meat, stir and fry until pan comes back to heat
6) add base 1 off chef spoon at a time waiting till pan comes back to heat. occasional stir from now on - side to side and around the rim (base and side of pan). add pastes and such like as soon as there is enough liquid ie coconut flour, almond powder etc
7) when almost done add final ingredients: fresh coriander, cream, lemon dressing etc
8 ) cook till surface craters or oil rises.
clearly everyone will have their own personal preferences. it would be good to understand what the main differences are so that we can all try them out and improve.
although i list 8 steps i think of it and cook it as if it were 3 stages:
A) oil - steps 1 & 2
B) spice - steps 3 & 4
C) base - steps 5 to 8
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Hi JerryM , surprised to see you add your Spices at the same time as you add some Base Sauce etc , I was told by the Chef's at two BIR's that the Spices should be fried in Oil without the addition of Base the Base would come later.
This is the order I use which is the same as the Chef at our favourite T/A .
1. Add Oil to pan , heat on medium.
2. Add a small amount of dried Methi leaves to the Oil
3. As the methi starts to sizzle add the Garlic / Ginger Puree , fry for approx 45 seconds stirring all the time.
4. Add Tomato Puree fry and stir for approx 45 seconds
5. Add Spices or Spice Mix and Chili Powder fry until Toffee smell
6. Add I ladle of Base stir well .
7. Add precooked meat stir in and increase heat slightly
8. Add 2 more ladles of Base adjust heat to have Curry bubbling steady
9. Add Coriander stalks ( if using ) add Salt to taste , a pinch of Garam Masala and a small squirt of Lemon Dressing
10. Serve with Garnish of Coriander leaf.
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emin-j,
you're right of course - spices for sure can be fried in the oil. i spent about 3 mths when i 1st joined the site perfecting this art. the addition of a small amount of liquid (i use base, but water in the tom puree does same) helps with consistency. the end result is no different.
SECOND METHOD
just for completeness i see this "hot" fry as needed for only certain dishes. the "all in" Dipuraja method works very well for what i call "ingredient" dishes ie CTM, Korma where the taste of the dish comes more from the ingredients than the spice.
i use both methods albeit most dishes that i cook fall into the hot fry category.
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Thanks emin-j and Jerry between you have it. It seems to me this might best me morphed into a post in it's own rights for beginners and first viewers of the site. It is as important as what base to use,etc. For what it's worth. I cooked a couple of curries on Friday night and having run out of both the pre cooked G/G pays and Bunjarra from The Ashoka I used the G/G paste and Bhuna Onion from the latest book instead. My wife quietly told me that "that wasn't the best curry you have served up Over the past few years." She was more than right I don't believe I can recreate both the smell and flavour I searched for for over thirty years without the pre cooked G/G paste and the Bunjarra. PP
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Thank you all for the input and the welcome feeling to the site. I will, of course, be back with more questions when the search is just too much conflicting ideas for my limited brain power!
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I am towards the end of making Razors base. All seems well except the tomato mix still seems to be very oily. 150ml seems like a lot of oil but I stuck with it and went in with faith! Do I just need to cook for longer? is my pan too small? does it oil reduce? Should I just carry on and not worry?
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I am towards the end of making Razors base. All seems well except the tomato mix still seems to be very oily. 150ml seems like a lot of oil but I stuck with it and went in with faith! Do I just need to cook for longer? is my pan too small? does it oil reduce? Should I just carry on and not worry?
The oil content certainly won't reduce (it can't boil off, unlike water) but unless/until Ray replies to the contrary, I wouldn't worry.
** Phil.
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I also had this issue, where the tomato mixture didn't look as thick as the one pictured in the OP - mine came out fine though.
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Thanks for the fast replies. I have now added the tomato to the onion and blended. Again the mixture is not as thick as I had thought it would be (I'm not saying this is wrong.....just expected thicker) the recipe now calls for another litre of water with only a short additional cooking time, so little evaporation. Will this just mean longer reducing in the final dish or can I cut down on the water and not have to reduce in the final dish.
Sorry for all the basic stuff. I know I will still make a decent meal, but would like to get it as near the "standard" as possible before I start to modify my own method.
Thanks again folks. ;)
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Personally, I don't add the final amount of water. I find the consistency and taste pretty much spot on without the additional water. However, it is worth following the recipe exactly, given it's the first time you have cooked it.
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Trucker, can you please post a link to the exact recipe you are using ? I am having trouble tracking down this "another litre of water", and would like to see exactly what Ray wrote before commenting further.
** Phil.
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It's this recipe Phil.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0)
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It's this recipe Phil.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4596.0)
Well, that's where I looked first, but I can't see anywhere that Ray writes of adding a further litre of water after adding the tomato and blending. Can you see it, Ramirez ?
** Phil.
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It's this bit at the end.
Finally, sprinkle the base with the Garam masala and add a further 1 litre of water, or enough to give you a soup like consistency and simmer for a further 15 mins.
The base is now ready.
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Sorry I was slow on the replies guys.............looks like you have found what I was working on ;D
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It's this bit at the end.
Ah, thank you : clearly my brain stopped searching at the words "garam masala", not expecting these to be followed by water ! In which case, Trucker, I think you should be guided by the "soup-like consistency" rather than the "1 litre", but with a light soup in mind, not something thick like cream of chicken. Maybe (I have been trying desperately to think of a soup with the right consistency) something like a lobster bisque, veering towards thinner rather than thicker.
** Phil.
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Yeah, it's school dinner soup. It falls off the ladle when you scoop itand doesn't leave a real residue (I'd say like scouse but none of you'd know what I mean).
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Yeah, it's school dinner soup. It falls off the ladle when you scoop itand doesn't leave a real residue (I'd say like scouse but none of you'd know what I mean).
VC I'm a Scouser!...............my base has no pieces in it!..........but I take your point about the gravy. I added half a litre of water and all seem to be about right ;D
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Hi Trucker,
First of all, thanks for giving my base a go.
Ok, with regards to the extra water at the end, if you feel that it is runny enough for you, then don't bother with it but, if you have followed the recipe to spec, you want to end up with 3 litres of base. If you have that already, without adding the final litre of water, then great but if not, try to bring it up to this volume.
When I describe it as soup like consistancy, VC hit's the nail on the head, school dinner soup and not cream of chicken or anything like that.
You should end up with 10 x 300ml portions (3 litres)
As for the tomato paste, don't worry too much if it looks a little thinner than mine, it happens to me too. It depends on the brand of tomatoes, although I can't think why it should?
Finally, yes, the base does have a high oil content but it works out at 20ml of oil per portion of base. Adding this to say 4 tbs of oil included with your final dish, gives you an overall oil content of 5.33 tbs of oil. Quite high, but very much BIR. In fairness, I did design the base to release a fair bit of oil during the final dish cooking stage because, I spoon out the excess and save for my next curry. I think it was Secret Santa that described this oil as "curry gold" and it certainly is!
Hope that explains a few things Trucker but if you do find it too oily (the base that is) extend the final simmer until you see the oil float to the top of the base, and spoon off. Next time, just add enough oil to suit your taste.
Ray :)
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Whehey Trucker!
I get my scouse thick with the spuds breaking down. Gorgeous with crusty bread and pickled red cabbage...
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And by the looks of your signature you like Rush too?
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Razor, thanks for the update. I had just under the 3 litre mark but was happy with it. I didn't really notice the oil once it was part of the final product..........I didn't really get much rising in the main dish. Could this be to do with the reduced water?
VC, yes I like my scouse with lots of potato pulp, in fact just about the way you described it. Must admit, Rush is up there with my taste in music. It;s a phrase I use a lot. Not sure who was first, me or Rush............I guess they are a little older. Well spotted :D