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Curry Photos & Videos => Pictures of Your Curries => Topic started by: Peripatetic Phil on November 06, 2010, 11:05 PM

Title: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on November 06, 2010, 11:05 PM

Kris Dhillon was my first BIR mentor, and her "Curry Secret" literally changed my life, but as time went by my confidence grew and eventually I started creating my own recipes and evolving my own methodology.  Now, after several years of experimentation,  I decided that it was time to go back to my roots and to re-create a basic Kris Dhillon dish (in this case, Chicken Madras), to see how it compared with my own recent offerings.  The following sequence of photographs illustrates the progression, starting with the basic cooking utensils and ending up at the finished curry.  Any deviations from Kris Dhillon's recipes or methodology are noted at the appropriate photograph.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/fe280e0a015d467fc88ffe8706b87360.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#fe280e0a015d467fc88ffe8706b87360.jpg)

The induction hob and cast-iron pot for preparing the base sauce

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1f6e16887c4e73c36d36367cafaa032e.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1f6e16887c4e73c36d36367cafaa032e.jpg)

Raw red onion, liquidised ginger & garlic, salt and water; cooked for 45 minutes
(Kris says "cooking onions", not red onions; I did not peel the ginger; nothing was washed)

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5d6ba136ee6df269b7f87a2c97f4b4eb.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5d6ba136ee6df269b7f87a2c97f4b4eb.jpg)

Unwanted strips of outer skin of red onions, removed before liquidising

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/144eb0c2ea5c96ad78f6a18cfc621ff2.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#144eb0c2ea5c96ad78f6a18cfc621ff2.jpg)

The liquidised stage-1 sauce

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/66898412eb8abd4c181eb32e6ee2808a.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#66898412eb8abd4c181eb32e6ee2808a.jpg)

Stage-1 sauce + oil, liquidised peeled plum tomatoes, tomato puree, turmeric & paprika

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/dd1a3489d9d0eabddab50ce19b69b35a.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#dd1a3489d9d0eabddab50ce19b69b35a.jpg)

The completed stage-2 sauce, cooked for a further 25 minutes; unskimmed

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/05f363178a55d4a7bdd5a01e03eec816.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#05f363178a55d4a7bdd5a01e03eec816.jpg)

Ghee-fried "Shana" frozen stuffed paratha (aloo palak)

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b8edc477240a1a52ca5e39839c22f260.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b8edc477240a1a52ca5e39839c22f260.jpg)

Chicken Madras a la Kris Dhillon
(8oz pre-cooked chicken; 3/4 pint stage-2 sauce; 1 teaspoon salt; 2 teaspoons ground chillies; 1 teaspoon ground cumin; 1/2 teaspoon ground fenugreek; chopped coriander stalks and two small red chillies added 2 minutes before serving; garnished with chopped coriander leaves at point of serving; all teaspoons rounded, not flat.  No garam masala, no raw tomato)

And the end results ?  Far far better than I had anticipated.  This dish would not have disgraced the Taj of Kent.  My wife also agreed that this was noticeably better than my recent offerings, despite the fact that she had thoroughly enjoyed those when they were served.

Conclusions ?  "Less is more".  This is about as basic a BIR curry as you can get, yet it left nothing to be desired.  I have reserved two pieces of chicken in adequate sauce, and will repeat this dish substituting Bassar Curry Masala for the ground red chillies whilst making no other changes, then compare the two to see which I prefer (and ask my wife the same question).  Thereafter I will continue to make only one change per curry, and to keep a little of the previous best curry to evaluate, by comparison, whether the change is beneficial or retrograde.

** Phil.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on November 06, 2010, 11:25 PM

Nice post Chaa006

The base looks great as does your Madras, I too have used KD1 and more recently have made some KD2 curries. Have to say they taste fine but like you I use my own knowledge and experience to build on the original recipes.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Razor on November 06, 2010, 11:35 PM

I Phil,

Sorry mate, I think I've missed the theme of this thread (it is late, and I'm on my 9th Bud ;))

Are you saying that, you've gone back to your starting point, and are happier with the results than your own development?

I've made reference to this before but we are our own worst critics.  Everyone who I cook for, to a man/woman agree that my food is better than any BIR/TA that they have had, and yet, I'm always slightly dissatisfied.  Even my sister who baulks at the very thought of paying me any kind of compliment, has asked me for my recipe for chicken tikka bhuna, which eventually, i did give her (well, a version of it lol)

I'm always switching between my recipes and CA's, sometimes preferring his, sometimes preferring mine. I honestly believe that we (the cooks) will never be truly satisfied with our own efforts, and we'll continue to search for a secret that probably, really isn't there!

Ray :)

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: haldi on November 07, 2010, 09:17 AM

Quote from: Chaa006 on November 06, 2010, 11:05 PM

Kris Dhillon was my first BIR mentor, and her "Curry Secret" literally changed my life, but as time went by my confidence grew and eventually I started creating my own recipes and evolving my own methodology.  Now, after several years of experimentation,  I decided that it was time to go back to my roots and to re-create a basic Kris Dhillon dish
** Phil.

Hi Chaa
I've got two versions of her Curry Secret
Where des the red onion idea come from?
Is that in one of the later versions?

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: JerryM on November 07, 2010, 09:52 AM

Chaa006,

your well worse than me - devoted to the cause.

this personal revisit idea is well worth the effort in my book. i've found that as more pieces of the jigsaw slot in your own previous judgements are called into question. a revisit is the only way to move forward.

i'm not sure whether your "evolution" is aimed at base or dish or both.

if it's base then it's well worth comparing KD1 with Razor's Kushi base and then with the CR0 development base. at the time i used Lynette Baxter's base (complete cookbook) but Razor's Kushi base has the same learning in it.

looking fwd to your continuing report particularly feedback on the bassar.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Secret Santa on November 07, 2010, 01:13 PM

Quote from: Chaa006 on November 06, 2010, 11:05 PM

8oz pre-cooked chicken; 3/4 pint stage-2 sauce; 1 teaspoon salt; 2 teaspoons ground chillies; 1 teaspoon ground cumin; 1/2 teaspoon ground fenugreek; chopped coriander stalks and two small red chillies added 2 minutes before serving; garnished with chopped coriander leaves at point of serving; all teaspoons rounded, not flat.  No garam masala, no raw tomato)

And the end results ?  Far far better than I had anticipated.  This dish would not have disgraced the Taj of Kent.

No surprises there for me Phil, I still rate the KD method (with some small modifications). Wise move leaving the GM out though.

Very nice looking madras.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on November 07, 2010, 07:26 PM

Quote from: Razor on November 06, 2010, 11:35 PM

Are you saying that, you've gone back to your starting point, and are happier with the results than your own development?

In a word, "yes", although as you will see from the notes to the pictures, I did allow experience to guide me rather than following Kris's ideas to the letter.  I think my real idea is that we all need to re-visit our own personal starting point from time to time, just because it is only too easy to forget how that starting point tasted.  A secondary point (but I suspect just as important) is this idea of "less is more" : I actually removed ingredients from Kris's recipe rather than adding to them (no garam masala, no tomato, and no added ground coriander : the last a personal addition that I incorporated soon after starting on her recipes), and I felt that the simpler dish that resulted was actually better than the more complex ones that I have been cooking of late.  And my wife agreed !

Quote from: haldi on November 07, 2010, 09:17 AM

I've got two versions of her Curry Secret.  Where does the red onion idea come from ?  Is that in one of the later versions ?

This is from Kris's first book, but I forget where I first read about the idea of using red onions, but I do remember it was emphasised : "2lb red onions (yes, red onions)", or words to that effect ...

** Phil (will comment on more recent posts later; just back from collecting Mother-in-law from hospital after a fall down stairs ...).

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on November 16, 2010, 05:33 PM

Oops, just repeating the experiment, this time using Bassar Curry Masala, and I realised I omitted the vital oil from the recipe : it should have read

Chicken Madras a la Kris Dhillon

8oz pre-cooked chicken; 5 tablespoons grapeseed oil; 3/4 pint stage-2 sauce; 1 teaspoon salt; 2 teaspoons ground chillies; 1 teaspoon ground cumin; 1/2 teaspoon ground fenugreek; chopped coriander stalks and two small red chillies added 2 minutes before serving; garnished with chopped coriander leaves at point of serving; all teaspoons rounded, not flat.  No garam masala, no raw tomato.

** Phil.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: haldi on October 05, 2014, 09:50 AM

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on November 06, 2010, 11:05 PM

Kris Dhillon was my first BIR mentor, and her "Curry Secret" literally changed my life, but as time went by my confidence grew and eventually I started creating my own recipes and evolving my own methodology.  Now, after several years of experimentation,  I decided that it was time to go back to my roots and to re-create a basic Kris Dhillon dish (in this case, Chicken Madras), to see how it compared with my own recent offerings. 
** Phil.

there is something about her book that draws me back
I feel the answer is within it's pages
I followed really closely her recipe for the gravy
everything weighed and cooked exactly for the right time
I then made a the chicken madras
It was a very good result
A little overpowered by the garam masala, but in all fairness,I've had bought curries like that
Worth noting is the temperature you cook the curry at
the boiling of the gravy is at a high temperature for 5 minutes
also the amount of oil for the curry
5 tablespoons
Seems a lot in the pan, but I did it
The spices didn't seem raw, using this method either
no garlic ginger fry either
and no tomato puree
you start the curry with a lot of gravy,
by the time you finish it's almost dried out
Clearly,there are many ways to cook a curry, because this was a good curry of a restaurant standard
Mind you, definitely not the best restaurant

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: noble ox on October 05, 2014, 10:10 AM

KD book 1 Curry base had the Bir aroma every time the 2nd version changed I think to tame the aromas for what ever reason.
Were there complaints from some non curry lovers ? I prefer the 1st
Anyone else notice the difference in smell?

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 05, 2014, 10:30 AM

Composite reply to Haldi/NO :

Haldi, did you make KD's garam masala (which I never have) or use a pre-made (or different) one ?  Also | find the 5 tablespoons of oil fine (I could even add more without worrying, since i can always spoon it off at the end).  For me, "less oil = less flavour" in a curry, and the first thing I do when re-spicing a T/A dish is to add more oil.

Bos nobilis, I have never tried the KD2 recipes; I could not understand how anyone who wanted a curry could possibly find the smell of the original base offensive, and I had no interest in migrating to an allegedly more healthy olive oil, so I stuck with KD1.

** Phil.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Madrasandy on October 05, 2014, 10:34 AM

Kd1 stunk the house out kd2 did not

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: noble ox on October 05, 2014, 10:38 AM

Phil
Non curry likers guests etc noticed the Bir smells
 I love the aroma as most curry lovers do . So why did she change it ? I wonder :)

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 05, 2014, 10:38 AM

Quote from: madrasandy on October 05, 2014, 10:34 AM

Kd1 stunk the house out kd2 did not

Well, I still can't "understand how anyone who wanted a curry could possibly find the smell of the original base offensive", even if that someone is you, Andy !

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Madrasandy on October 05, 2014, 10:43 AM

I wouldn't be where I am now regarding curry cooking if it wasn't for the kd1 book, I still have my book, tatty pages covered in food stains and I still make the onion salad from it. I may make a batch of kd1 for old times sake, wonder how it will hold up against my current base?

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Madrasandy on October 05, 2014, 10:46 AM

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on October 05, 2014, 10:38 AM

Quote from: madrasandy on October 05, 2014, 10:34 AM

Kd1 stunk the house out kd2 did not

Well, I still can't "understand how anyone who wanted a curry could possibly find the smell of the original base offensive", even if that someone is you, Andy !

I don't recall using the word "offensive" phil, I love the smell , my wife didn't .  ;)

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 05, 2014, 11:04 AM

Quote from: madrasandy on October 05, 2014, 10:46 AM

I don't recall using the word "offensive" phil, I love the smell , my wife didn't .  ;)

Um, "stunk the house out" did not imply "offensive" ?! :)
** Phil.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Madrasandy on October 05, 2014, 11:20 AM

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on October 05, 2014, 11:04 AM

Um, "stunk the house out" did not imply "offensive" ?! :)
** Phil.

Haha god damn stinking curry bases  :o

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: LouP on October 05, 2014, 11:45 AM

my daughter goes mad when I do a base (she hates onions..lol ) I have to open all windows and light candles around the house.
The things I have to do for my art  ::)

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: haldi on October 05, 2014, 07:06 PM

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on October 05, 2014, 10:30 AM

Haldi, did you make KD's garam masala (which I never have) or use a pre-made (or different) one ? 
** Phil.

I never thought of that
No, I used East End garam masala
I should have made up hers
I'm sure it would make a difference

Oh well
I'll do it next time

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 05, 2014, 07:11 PM

It is (from memory; I'll fetch a copy later) rather different to generic GM.
** Phil.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 05, 2014, 11:12 PM

Quote from: Phil [Chaa006] on October 05, 2014, 07:11 PM

It is (from memory; I'll fetch a copy later) rather different to generic GM.

Actually, not that different after all :   coriander seeds, cummin, green cardamom, cloves, black peppercorns, cinnamon, bay leaves, nutmeg, black cardamom.  Perhaps the most significant difference is the timing -- she adds the GM after the chilli and salt, but at the same time as the cumin and methi.

** Phil.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Dajoca on October 16, 2014, 07:35 PM

Hi Phil.
In your madras recipe you specify using stage 2 sauce, whereas KD would seem to be referring to stage 3.
Any particular reason for the change?

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Dajoca on October 22, 2014, 12:15 PM

Ok got it.

Title: Re: Back to my roots, or Kris Dhillon re-discovered
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on October 22, 2014, 03:35 PM

Sorry, missed your question Dajoca, otherwise I would have responded by now.
** Phil.