Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: telecaster445 on November 05, 2010, 05:49 PM
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I noticed that few recipes on these boards seem to include green cardamon pods in the mains. My local TA will often leave a couple of the chaps in Bhunas and Dupiazas. ( I'm used to fishing them out).
Is this a regional (South london) thing? In what context do members suggest their use (rice excluded)?
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Is this a regional (South london) thing? In what context do members suggest their use (rice excluded)?
I lightly crush them and add them to most dishes (most dishes with a sauce, that is, not dry dishes such as tandoori chicken); but then I love them, and my wife hates them, so she always complains. (She's Vietnamese/Chinese, so not used to our South London ways !).
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Hi TC,
In these parts (The Red Republic of Mancunia) we rarely find cardamoms in anything but pilau rice.
With that said, it is quite common to use them in a base, as an infusion, along with star anise, cassia bark, bay leaf and cloves but I think this lends itself more toward 'Balti' than BIR.
Hope that helps.
Ray :)
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I noticed that few recipes on these boards seem to include green cardamon pods in the mains...Is this a regional (South london) thing?
Oh that's interesting tc. I always used to get whole spices in my curries, cardamoms included, when I lived in London (Notting Hill Gate some 30 years ago!) but as I gradually migrated North they disappeared.
I thought they were just disappearing as times moved on and tastes changed but it's good to know that some still include them.
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In what context do members suggest their use (rice excluded)?
i've not seen any clear guidance of best practise at frying stage.
i tried recently adding with the oil before the g/g ginger. it did not sit well with how they taste in BIR (still a dryness). i use them in base but as whole items have rarely let them bypass the blending (once by error).
going fwd i'm probably going to drop a few in the finished base. alternatively will add to base using spice ball. if you don't use a spice ball or equivalent methods then this is the 1st port of call.
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I break the pods open and use the seeds in a dopiaza....I just add them to the spices and fry off after caremelising the onions then the g&g then in with the spices then base (if I'm using one).
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Hi
In these parts - the hamp-of-shire - we like to add thrice or so in with our potatoes when we are boiling them for our saag aloo etc.
We often allow one or more to escape into the main dish too, like one of our favourite restaurants likes to do.
Really p*ssed the wife off too, when she bites into one unexpected ;) - but I love them :)
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These days I add them to hot oil, very hot oil, with other solid spices. I'm not too keen on biting into too many however.
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I've never found whole spices in a curry in God's country (Merseyside). Like you said it must be a regional thing.
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I break the pods open and use the seeds
Domi,
i have this on my mind to try. so far i have only used them whole and added to the oil with the g/g. with hindsight i felt this early frying was not what is needed to produce the sort of soft taste experience in BIR (clearly these whole pods come through from base cooking - added post blending).
it sounds from your post that frying the seeds makes a difference in terms of getting more taste than frying them whole. i will certainly give it a try.
do you have a feel for how much more flavour is obtained - is it x2 for example.
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I started using the seeds rather than the pods after using the seeds to make cardamom scented shortbread and a lemon and cardamom posset though for the posset I use cracked pods to flavour the cream and leave them to steep then fish them out as a dessert for curry nights.
I use the seeds from 3 pods for my dopiaza which may seem like alot to some but it doesn't overpower, it gives a nice background flavour (almost lemony) throughout the whole dish and I don't get that from using the cracked pods. Note I make large portions (3 northern portions) so I guess it works out a pod's worth per portion though I'm not scientific in my approach lol.
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lemon and cardamom posset
I love that word posset! Posset, posset, posset...see I can't stop saying it. ;D
I looked a recipe up and can't believe how simple it is. I can see it going down very nicely after a vindaloo.
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It's a great palate cleanser, SS and far less sickly than Indian sweets ;D cardamom shortbread is great with chocolate and cardamom pots too ;) Even better with a bit of vanilla paste in the cream mix too ;)
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Ground Cardamom is also available if anyone's interested :)
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Ground Cardamom is also available if anyone's interested :)
And cardamom seeds; you don't need to crack the pods yourself !
** Phil.
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Jerry
That's a point, pods at gravy stage. I had imagined poss 3 pods thrown in at G/G stage, but early could work.
I had a Bhuna once in Kingsway area of London, that had a black cardamon pod sat in it. This was the first time I have found this in a main. Gave it a smokey aromatic flavour, if a little dominant.
As for the greens, they are always soft when in a main dish, which suggests they are in at the early stages. How long would they take to soften? I guess in to early and they collapse, too late and they are still brittle.
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Domi,
thanks for experience on qty. seeds from 1 off pod will be my starting point.
telecaster445,
i may not have been clear enough. i intend to follow 2 approaches.
i already put cardamom in base but use tgad2007's powder form (subtle taste). however i like finding a pod or so in the main dish and consequently now intend to throw a few pods in the base after blending. i cook for a further 2 hrs and expect this will soften the pods a la what you sometimes find in BIR mains.
the 2nd interest is in adding to specific dishes to change the taste. mind you i've only tried this once so far in Chaa006 Bombay. the whole pod did not cook out for eating as a whole (too chewy hence adding to the base). however i did notice it changed the taste of the dish quite nicely but not strong enough (or not - not sure) - hence the idea to add the seed (i'm thinking with the g/g ginger at dish frying).
i guess as you say this could even open the door to using black cardamom "seeds" which the pods for me in the whole are too strong tasting. but a small proportion may just work.
my interest in it all being recipe refinement and trying to find potential tricks that BIR might use to add that extra something now and again in the right dish.
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I think this thread is interesting in the fact that, it shows how varied our individual taste's really are!
I think both Solarsplace and Jerrym would welcome biting down on a cardamom, whereas I, and I suspect a few others would be horrified at the very thought!
Just an interesting observation, that's all :P
Ray :)
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I, and I suspect a few others would be horrified at the very thought [of] biting down on a cardamom !
Oh, they're wonderful, Ray : can't understand how anyone could dislike them ! In fact, I regard them as one of my great culinary formative influences, along with dried shitake mushroom in "Duck Cantonese" -- cardamoms were a great part of the attraction of curries, as shitake were of Cantonese cuisine ...
** Phil.
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Razor, you are right that we all have different ideas on what works. Round my way biting on an unexpected cardamon pod, is par for the course. It usually just bring smiles all round, as it is carefully placed on the edge of the plate. I don't know anyone who eats them, or indeed would raise a concern that they nearly had. They are just accepted.
To use a golfing comparison, they're a bit like a bunker, that should be avoided, but you'd miss if they weren't there!!!
Ok how about this thought. Is their inclusion regional? Now this leads us on to what traits a regional BIR have? What are the obvious difference of a London BIR, to a Scottish one? Could the UK be divided into identifiable BIR zones? An example is that on some of the videos I've seen Jalfrezi cooked with 2 ladles of gravy. In South London, its often a low on gravy, but high on oil.
So here's the thing. We maybe comparing nationwide recipes, with regional benchmarks of end result. No wonder what works for one, may not for another. Is this getting too deep?
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What are the obvious difference of a London BIR, to a Scottish one?
Some 20 or so years ago, I had reached the distinct impression that the further that one got from London, the milder the curries were. So, when I had a few hours to kill while waiting for a flight from Glasgow Airport, I decided to go for a curry, and as Glasgow was so far from London, I ordered a Bangalore Phal, expecting it to be about Madras strength on my personal scale.
Oh what a mistake that was. That Bangalore Phal was seriously hot, and I had to nurse it in my insides all the way from Glasgow to London on a Trident : never again !
** Phil.
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Hi TC
So here's the thing. We maybe comparing nationwide recipes, with regional benchmarks of end result. No wonder what works for one, may not for another. Is this getting too deep?
No, it's not getting too deep, it's a very valid point! For me, a Jal Frezi should be quite low on sauce, maybe not quite as dry as a bhuna but certainly not as wet as a madras. I've never ever seen a Jal frezi with egg in it, as per Domi's findings but around her way, it's done no other way! Regional variances certainly play their part.
I never see cardamoms in any dish here. I do recall finding the odd one in rice but certainly never in a main curry.
Ray :)
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Hi Razor ;)
I use cardamom seeds in more complex dishes (they're in the takeaway dopiazas, bhunas, jalfrezis and pathias here) and my "from scratch" curries. I use them in pilau rice and samosas too...it's a rarity to find them in other mains here nowadays but in the old days you'd regularly find them in dishes along with cumin seeds (or babies toenails as my mate used to call them)....hardly ever find cumin seeds in mains now either unless in a restaurant as opposed to a local takeaway...then again we rarely get potato in a vindaloo though on most menus it's listed as an ingredient.
I wouldn't use them in madras or vindaloo which as we know don't use as many spices in the making.
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Ok thanks Guys! Add to this I sometimes find a star anise in Do piazas. Now this is a real treat!!
Sounds like South London may be the place for whole spices! Having said that, madras and vinds are smooth as the proverbial (as they should be).
I haven't heard much from the Midlands (balti belt). Are these so regional that they are not considered BIRs? Not having visited, how do they compare? I sometimes get the impression that Balti is just another standard dish round my way and has no real link to the the pan. The menu will often wax lyrical about special herbs and spices, cooked in an authentic balti pan. Cobblers! I bet its cooked in identical pan as my chicken madras. It may get served up in a pan with 2 handles! In fact it tastes like other house curries, with perhaps more garlic and ginger, plus chunky veg. Considered tad overpriced for what they are.
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as telecaster points out it really is quite amazing this regional thing.
i think it's probably even muddier than we think.
a best mate in the midlands who's just as curry mad would not like cardamom. no cardamom in the North West. i'm not keen on methi but star anis is in with the cardamom for me. i don't like curry in bradford which is another fact i find difficult to fit into this regional picture.
ps balti in the midlands is for definite very different to BIR. trouble is a lot of BIR's have become balti houses by name but not by food.
Chaa006 difficulties across the boarder are difficult to keep a lid on yet are further proof of how diverse this regional variation is and for me what is so good about our passion.