Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: guitarmanguitar on October 14, 2010, 08:39 AM
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I notice that most base sauce's, & BIR main dishes, all have either Ghee, or Veg oil added.
I was wondering if one could use Extra Virgin Olive Oil instead?
CArl...
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Kris Dhillon mentions somewhere (maybe on her web site) that she now uses olive oil, but Kris is now living in Australia and has "gone organic", so I don't know whether her advice reflects current BIR practice or her own preferences -- I suspect the latter.
(Tried to find the original reference but failed; however, Kris has a couple of recipes here -- http://debskitchencreations.blogspot.com/search/label/Kris Dhillon (http://debskitchencreations.blogspot.com/search/label/Kris Dhillon) -- that use olive oil : Goan Coconut Chicken Curry, and her new base sauce).
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Thanks Chaa006,
I was maybe thinking it's slightly healthier too.
CArl...
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Healthy. Curry. Oxymoron ;D
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Oxymoron ;D
Thanks for the compliment Chaa....
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Extra virgin olive oil is not recommended for cooking with - it is more something you drizzle on your salads.
You can use light refined olive oil as it doesn't taste of much.
I use rice bran oil for my curries as people claim it is nearly as healthy as olive oil and doesn't really have a flavour of it's own. It costs me about 2 quid a pint from Sainsburys.
Cheers,
Paul
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Oxymoron ;D
Thanks for the compliment Chaa....
Oops, I hope you didn't misunderstand what I wrote : "Oxymoron" is a figure of speech that combines normally-contradictory terms (in this case, "Curry" and "Healthy"); it has nothing to do with a shorter word that does not contain the letters "Oxy". Very sincere apologies if I failed to make myself clear and caused any offence.
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Very sincere apologies if I failed to make myself clear and caused any offence.
No need to apologise Chaa006.
No offence taken.
CArl...
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Rapeseed Oil is a very good alternative.
http://www.rapeseedoil.co.uk/ (http://www.rapeseedoil.co.uk/)
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You can use any oil you like but it won't be authentic BIR ;)
Just to add, I have tried to make a healthier version of a BIR and it is a waste of time, better to eat the full fat unhealthy goodness less often instead 8)
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Hi Guy,s
In my opinion, Kris Dhillon is calling for the use of olive oil, in an attempt to make the more "health conscious" want to try her dishes.
I've got both books. KD1 asks for veg oil, KD2, olive oil. It's got to be selling tactic in my opinion.
BIR's don't use olive oil, it's way too expensive to be a viable option, surely?
Ray :)
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Hi Ray,
I think most BIRs these days would use cheap vegetable oil. So long as you pick an oil with not much taste it shouldn't make much difference to the final curry.
The light refined olive oil doesn't taste of much but perhaps the health benefits diminish with the processing of the oil.
I'm not sure KD ever really understood BIR food as we know it.
Paul
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On an interesting note, my doctor recommended recently a daily intake of a teaspoon of olive oil - preferably extra virgin - to reduce my cholesterol level ! Have it now sprinkled over my cornies and taste is ok. [not instead of milk - as well as]
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my doctor recommended recently a daily intake of a teaspoon of olive oil - preferably extra virgin
A famous chef (Raymond Blanc, I think), in a television series earlier this year, asked an olive oil producer what is the difference is between "Extra virgin" and "Virgin" olive oil; the reply was : "You pay twice as much for the extra virgin" !
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Ghoulie,
i would have a good look into this claim if it's an "and" rather than an "or". olive oil still contains sat fat and that's the thing to keep an eye on.
i think cod liver oil is similar vein.
i'm not confident of anyone living to tell the tale. i'd swap it for sultana or raisin and boost your 5 a day.
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Jerry - done a web search and it confirms that olive oil is capable of reducing cholesterol - the extra virgin is supposed to contain more anti oxidants - whatever - in a couple of months I will be on a retest and see where my levels are at.
(while I was at the 'tests' situation - comes with the 60+ age gov med routine chesks - my missus insisted on a prostate count too ! - we know a few peole who have had 'no symptoms of prostate problems ' - but on a random routine check been found to be at danger level of prostate cancer. Luckily I scored a 1.2 - when less than 4 is good ).
Aint getting older great !
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Ghoulie,
i'm no expert in this but do keep a keen eye on my cholesterol levels.
re-test result will be interesting. i've found "reducing" claims not to hold up well in practice - increasing Hdl and reducing Ldl appears a very hard trick to pull off. sure olive oil is much better than other oil down to the high level of mono unsaturates but it still contains the saturates.
the top 3 no no's for me are eggs, cheese, butter (inc marg) - these really do have a big impact. i limit myself to 17g sat fat per day averaged over the week - seems to work (upto 27g per day i feel would work just as good). i'm less convinced of the need to watch dietary cholesterol ie lean meat except for the big hitters like eggs and prawns.
the jigsaw is quite big though - i've recently found out that by cutting down on meat i got too short of magnesium and this led to muscle problems.
prostrate is for sure something to keep in mind.
best wishes
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Hey guys am into my cooking but only a novice at indian cooking but i think that i can help you out with the 'cooking with olive oil' topic and give you a good start point to be able to go on and research it yourself and edge on the side of caution when choosing your oil to fry on because it can become toxic (ok not toxic enuf to kill you dead on the spot but enuf to make it unhealthy). Ok to start with every oil has a 'SMOKE POINT' and 'FLASH POINT'!!!! You might of heard of one or both of these terms and this is where you can start your internet search by simply typing cooking oil smoke point, as this is the most relevant one to cooking indians, into Google. (Here i've done it for you) 'Heating an oil changes its characteristics. Oils that are healthy at room temperature can become unhealthy when heated above certain temperatures. When choosing a cooking oil, it is important to match the oil's heat tolerance with the cooking method.' Some sites tend to lean towards the unhealthy smoke that is emitted and some tend to say that it make the food it is cooked in taste bitter. Either way extra virgin olive oil is not a frying oil and would be wrong to do so especially with the high temperature indians are fried at. Try putting some extra virgin olive oil in a pan and watch it evaporate at even moderate temperatures in only a short time leaving you no oil left to fry in so pointless at most temperatures. At most it would be suitable to quick fry a fish fillet for a couple of mins. Refined olive oil labled 'olive oil' is, like vegetable oil, sunflower oil etc refined which means it can be used at a higher temperature and seems ok when use it to fry indian although it can change the taste slightly it still makes for an oily meal if you want it that way. Anyway don't exceed the smoke point for each particular oil and refined olive oil might be ok but extra virgin and virgin aren't really although in a raita or non cooked item hell yes its ok although it changes the final taste somewhat. No matter what all olive oils are healthy and the saturated fat, believe it or not is the good type of saturated fat. Hope this gives you somthing to go on and check out .
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Hi Rhod,
I use rice bran oil. It is supposed to be one of the more healthy oils and has a neutral flavour unlike olive oil. The trouble with olive oil and that by the time it has been refined to remove the flavour and increase the frying temperature it loses a lot of the health benefits associated with virgin olive oil.
I think most of us on here put a significant amount of oil in our base sauce recipes.
I can't imagine a base sauce recipe without any oil in it.
Welcome the forum
Paul
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Yep you said it refined olive oil aint that great for you although its still not unhealthy. There are lots of oils out there and some can be cooked at really high temperatures. The thing with extra virgin olive oil is that it is more like a speciality oil and when the olives are picked if they are bruised they give a far less superior oil than if their not bruised hence why people buy extra virgin olive oil from producers who pick olives and bottle the oil at the same site hence the D.O.P. wording on the lable of good olive oil which states the region the olives grew in and that they were processes and bottled straight after picking. Its complicated and all to do with the acid levels of the olive oil. All this is totally lost when refined giving a far less superior product. Google it and you will start to realise the reason why people pay between 30 quid to over a hundred quid for just a small bottle of extra virgin olive oil. Its all in the quality. God i could talk all day about olive oil but only the refined version is suitable for frying and not the extra or virgin olive oil. You get the extra virgin olive oil from the first press of olives and the virgin olive oil from the second press of olive oil, then the remaining pressed olives have any remaining oil extracted using chemicals which are evaporated of leaving just plain olive oil. Even then a forth grade of olive oil is left which is called Pommace (i think) and you can buy this although it is normally sold to soap manufactures who use it to make soap products. The itallians and greeks are very fussy about their olive oil and that what is sold in the suppermarket would make them laugh when compared to the quality they use. Thanks
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I use rice bran oil.
As do I. Mainly because it's cheap, does the job, and is (to my mind, at least) a considerable improvement over sunflower and rapeseed oils. I used to use groundnut and/or grapeseed, but both of those are more expensive than rice bran and don't seem to offer any benefits as far as BIR cuisine is concerned, although I still prefer them for Chinese stir-fried dishes.
** Phil.
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but only the refined version is suitable for frying and not the extra or virgin olive oil.
rhodriharris,
was not aware of this - many thanks.
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Glad to help, the extra virgin olive oil and virgin olive oil are not suitable for frying and i suppose neither would veg oil if it wasn't refined first. Extra virgin olive oil is more a salad oil and i know people do try to fry with it but it simply burns up at high temps. Use it as a garnish or sald dressing.
If you do like the taste of it in your curry you should add it at the very end so that it dosen't recieve the high heat from cooking. I see olive oil to be just as pungent as most spices and has a bland unique taste.
I am intrested to know more about 'rice bran oil' as i never heard of it before. Can it withstand high temps and is it totally healthy or not unhealthy like olive oil? I have tried to find an oil for a long time that is just as healthy as olive oil but will withstand such high temperatures as needed for indian curries.
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I am interested to know more about 'rice bran oil' as i never heard of it before. Can it withstand high temps and is it totally healthy or not unhealthy like olive oil?
Alfa one 100% Pure Rice Bran Oil
No cholesterol
Plant sterols, Vitamin E
High smoke point
Light flavour
"Good for you, good for your food"
The most versatile oil in the kitchen
Contains 500ppm Oryzanol
"Make the healthier choice"
Alfa One Rice Bran Oil is naturally light and clean tasting. It contains the natural antioxidant Vitamin E and the plant sterol Oryzanol. With a high smoke point (250C), it is ideal for all types of cooking including baking, grilling and frying.
Ingredients : Extra cold filtered Rice Bran Oil
Oil produced in Thailand.
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I buy my rice bran oil from Sainsburys. It's just under 2 quid for 500 ml.
Ideally I would like to use virgin coconut oil but it is just too expensive, like about 7 quid for 500 ml. This is controversial as it is very saturated but the molecules are a unique medium length chain and the health benefits seem good.
Paul
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Ok guys i'm quite scientific and looked at rice bran oil. I used the chart on wiki that you can get showing saturates, monosaturates and polyunsaturates along with the health benefits researched on about 15 sites.
Its got its pros and cons and not perfect, dosen't natch up to olive oil in the kitchen health wise but it does allow very high temperatures of frying as well as hardly any smoke which is a really good benifit. It has similar levels of fats as margerine but good amount of vitamins to make you live longer and feel healthier. Unfortunatly refined olive oil looses some of its vitamins so rice bran oil beats it here although olive oil is better fat and cholesterol wise. Coconut oil is basically just saturated fat so just as good as olive oil and unfortunatly needs refining, a process that uses nasty chemicals (so does veg oil,olive oil and sunflower), to allow it to be used for frying + exspensive. Heres the best point about rice bran oil which i guess why it is gaining popularity in the west over veg oil and sunflower is that it dosen't need refining! So yes rice bran oil is a good choice over olive oil when frying because of its high smoke point and being unrefined it still dosen't stack up to olive oil in the fats department and refined olive oil is ok to fry with (i personally don't like to even get refined olive oil too hot but see no reason why not too).
So no oil really seems to be better and personally id stick to olive oil or coconut oil when making a curry and save the rice bran oil for deep frying and really high temps. The main thing that i can take out of this is that there all better than vegetable oil and sunflower oil. Hmm which oil to use, scratches head, i'm gona get back to using olive oil at home and see how it stacks up taste and heat wise compared to veg oil. I will definatly deep fry with rice bran oil and think i am converted there being the healthiest option. Coconut oil is too exspensive and harder too get so forget that in my kitchen dude although tell me more about it please as i never used it. Is there any other oil that anyone on here uses that could be both better and healthier than olive and rice bran oil??
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What exactly do you classify as "vegetable oil", Rhodri ? In my classification, olive, rice bran, and coconut are all "vegetable oils", but you must be using the term to mean something different.
** Phil.
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I havn't googled it but seem to remember that seed oils, sunflower, rape, peanut all are able to take a higher heat than fruit oils, olive, vegetable and the like.
Im not sure how sunflower stacks up against vegetable in terms of healthiness though.
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I'm keeping my eye out for this when it comes in stock:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nutiva-Organic-Coconut-8-Pound-1-Gallon/dp/B0016BO5EY (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nutiva-Organic-Coconut-8-Pound-1-Gallon/dp/B0016BO5EY)
They sell this in the US for 49 dollars.
I bought 1.5 litres of organic virgin coco oil about a year ago but couldn't justify the price for the amount I was using.
It sure tastes good though!
Paul
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Oils don't have to reach a smoke-temperature before they change their properties and become less healthy.
One of the reasons I switched to groundnut oil is that I heard an 'expert' suggest that, whilst it was not much more healthy than sunflower oil when cold, after heating sunflower oil becomes extremely bad for you.
We've all heard that monounsaturates are the best, poly- the next best and saturated the worst type of lipids; and groundnut oil lies midway between the healthier olive oil and the 'neutral' sunflower oil, but apparently the situation changes after the oils have been heated just once, and to quite a low temperature!
Apparently groundnut oil is the healthiest to cook with; sunflower oil, regarded as ambivilent when unheated becomes EXTREMELY bad for you after heating. Olive oil effects the taste of the curry.
I have used Rice bran oil too, but I excepting it's relatively benign properties when cold, I have no idea what it's like after it has been heated! I'd like more info on this!
Anyway the Misses and I stick to groundnut for curry and chinky, and olive oil for the Mediteranian stuff; which we think is a good compromise on taste v. health.
Low-fat food is SOOOO boring!
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I think vegetable oil that i buy at asda is really grapeseed oil as the ingredients say, they just lable it veg oil and yes any veg is vegetable oil. I just finished a curry with olive oil and man it didn't have any of the taste as veg/grapeseed oil, not even very oily and taste was a bit bland. Not using olive oil again and it smoked loads during cooking.
Adriandavid i like your idea of groundnut oil and have some at home from when i used to make bread as it takes very high temps. I believe you that you don't have to heat some oils very hot for thaem to become unhealthy and the reason why the oil i fry in is so important. My currys are mainly organic veg, onions, spices etc and hate the fact that i am making it with a bad choice of oil. At least its stable at higher temperatures which is so important to me, just wish it was more healthy with the fats.
Ok so i'm down to rice bran oil and virgin coconut oil, both unrefined and i'll pay the difference for virgin coconut oil if it is the best and healthiest. I can't find any info on virgin coconut oil for frying curries, can it take the high temps without smoking? Does it impart a taste on the curry? And does it give that oily look at the end of cooking?
I want to go with rice bran oil really but coconut oil seems to be a far more nutritious choice so if it stacks up i might be converted and try it. I do like the idea of ground nut oil though and hadn't thought of it, bet it taste good to fry with it.
Is there such thing as a healthy safe oil to fry with, must be some kind of miracle oil!
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Hi,
When I used my organic virgin coconut oil I couldn't really taste it in the curries.
Even when I used 450 ml (cost me about 8 quid!) in a 3 litre base it didn't really show as a distinct flavour.
For normal BIR type preparation the coconut oil is fine for frying e.g. frying onions, garlic/ginger, tom puree, spices where you don't need very high temps.
For Asian stir-fry dishes I don't think the oil would be suitable.
Cheers,
Paul
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rhodriharris,
hope you don't mind me asking about the health issues of going past the flame point.
i mostly use veg oil and produce a lot of smoke during the frying.
i certainly won't being changing the way i cook but would like to know what i'm in for and how deep.
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JerryM this is complicated to explain but if the oil is heated too high it can produce carcinogenic sustances which are cancer related (smoke point not flame point). I didn't want to say this as the 'C' word is very scary and misunderstood. I doubt the risk is much but my health is the most important thing and can't put a price on it. Its all to do with the frre redicals produced from most oils at high temps. I don't want to go into it much futher as everyone needs to come to their own conclusion and with the internet being such a wealth of information i would recomend a few google searches first before listening to me. I hate sunflower and veg oil as they came out the worst and hope to find an alternative that gives that takeaway taste and is actually good for me. The problem is that the best tasting curries all seem to be made with veg oil and ghee so replicating their taste is also what i aim for.
I'm at a loss as to what to go for next, coconut oil seems great but i'm having difficulties in understanding it! None of the coconut oils in my local healthfood shops say weather it is virgin coconut oil or wether it has been bleached, deoderised and refined which seems to be another type of coconut oil although all say that they are safe for cooking and frying as well as moisturising the skin. I just don't want to commit to an oil unless i'm 100 percent certain.
I am awaiting some rice bran oil if my local chinese shop can obtain it from their suppliers and hopefully someone can shed some light on the musterious coconut oil, i shop at holland and barret so if anyone uses this or can pop into the shop and verify that it is the type i want would be great, its in a green tub for 12.99
I'm very extreme with healthy cooking and don't expect everyone to share my views about veg/sunflower oil, some people don't mind the hydrogenated fat it contains. I will be using groundnut oil till i work out my best choice and although not a great healthy oil it certainly does withstand those high temps.
To all those who love curry but have high cholesterol i am sorry because you have even less choices than me and truly it must be difficult.
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The real question for me is not which oil to use in curry : I am happy to use any of rice bran, groundnut or grapeseed. But what oil to use for deep frying (onion bhajis, for example) is another matter, because the quantities involved are considerably greater and therefore price becomes a consideration. All of rice bran, groundnut and grapeseed are essentially "luxury oils" : sold in small bottles at high prices; which run-of-the-mill oil, I wonder, is best when one needs to buy several litres at a time ?
** Phil.
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The real question for me is not which oil to use in curry : I am happy to use any of rice bran, groundnut or grapeseed. But what oil to use for deep frying (onion bhajis, for example) is another matter, because the quantities involved are considerably greater and therefore price becomes a consideration. All of rice bran, groundnut and grapeseed are essentially "luxury oils" : sold in small bottles at high prices; which run-of-the-mill oil, I wonder, is best when one needs to buy several litres at a time ?
** Phil.
Hi Phil
I use this stuff: http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/sainsburys-price-comparison/Oils_And_Vinegar/Tesco_Pure_Sunflower_Oil_3L.html?ShowSwitchSMBar=3 (http://www.mysupermarket.co.uk/sainsburys-price-comparison/Oils_And_Vinegar/Tesco_Pure_Sunflower_Oil_3L.html?ShowSwitchSMBar=3)
Always get very tasty results.
Cheers
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Hi Rhod,
There are plenty of suppliers of organic virgin coconut oil. Just try a google search.
Be careful not to use any other type of coconut oil, however, as the process of refining coconut oil produces hydrogenated compounds and trans fats making them very unhealthy.
Cheers,
Paul
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I do my onion bhajis in bog standard veg or sunflower oil from ASDA and as I do them in a wok, you can get away with using about 1/2 a litre at a cost therefore of around 50p. I also reuse this oil when I am doing my curries.
I never use olive oil in curries because I don't believe it's what BIRs use and it imparts a flavour of it's own which in my opinion is more suited to Mediterranean cooking.
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So i need the coconut oil labled 'virgin' to insure it has been untouched? I will have to order offline as no shops sell the virgin coconut oil, not even holland and barret which is meant to be a good health food shop, they only stock coconut oil which as you say has probably been refined somehow.
I thought rice bran oil would be cheap as i think someone said in a previous post and would therefore be suitable for large quantity deep frying! One other thing to remember about rice bran oil is you can fry in it more than once futher reducing the price as it goes a whole lot futher than veg/sunflower oil which needs changing more reguarly. Grapeseed oil is cheap in my asda and is lablled both as grapeseed oil and their standard vegetable oil for a quid a litre, just checked it again and sorry to cause any confusion but mine actually says rapeseed and not grapeseed so maybe there is a difference. Correct me if i'm wrong on this.
These posts have been very informative and hoping that coconut oil is the one for me although i am still waiting for the rice bran oil and may use both.
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I too agree olive oil and curry don't mix, dosen't give the bir flavour and taste and seems not to fry the curry enough to pull out the bir look and taste. This is through experimenting with it versus rapeseed/veg oil and veg oil won hands down. I will never fry curry in olive oil again and like you said it is more suited for mediterranian cooking. Incedentaly jamie oliver fried potatoes in virgin olive oil yesterday afternoon on his 30 min meal program and he certainly used a very low heat and cooked for a very long time so this is the way olive oil should be used and not for curry. Thanks
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Grapeseed oil is cheap in my asda and is lablled both as grapeseed oil and their standard vegetable oil for a quid a litre, just checked it again and sorry to cause any confusion but mine actually says rapeseed and not grapeseed so maybe there is a difference. Correct me if i'm wrong on this.
Hi Rhordri,
They are very different,
Grapeseed oil is as it suggests made from grape seeds,
Rapeseed oil comes from the fields of yellow flowers you may see around Britain and will generally be the oil that is used in a bottled oil called Vegetable Oil in Tescos etc
Regards,
Mick
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Grapeseed oil is cheap in my asda and is lablled both as grapeseed oil and their standard vegetable oil for a quid a litre, just checked it again and sorry to cause any confusion but mine actually says rapeseed and not grapeseed so maybe there is a difference. Correct me if i'm wrong on this.
Yep, they are totally different, Rhodri : grapeseed comes from grape seeds, as you would expect; rapeseed comes from that horrible yellow modern blot on the farming landscape that causes such massive problems for sufferers from hay fever, so I never use the latter.
** Phil.
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rhodriharris,
much appreciate the extra info - i understand your reply completely.
on the veg oil. i also use olive pomace (50:50 refined olive:veg). you can tell the difference but not vast - may be worth a try.
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I have ordered some organic virgin coconut oil, 'Bioana' or somthing like that. 400grams 6.75 pounds and 6.50 pounds delivery, so 13.25 quid and wow is that exspensive. I convinced my girlfriend that it would be good for her skin so she let me buy it on her card. I am hoping my local chinese shop can still get me the rice bran oil although what i have futher read on coconut oil suggests that i will be happy with it in the future. I have taken my time to find a mild tasting one that won't flavour the food much and says that the taste cooks out and is barely noticable. It does go on to say that it is good for weight loss and cholesterol and that the body burns up any fat real quick in the liver so i can't see why it would contribute to higher cholesterol, describes it as a neutral food so does no harm to cholesterol levels. looking like a real viable alternative to olive oils i hope and definatly withstands the high temps of frying.
I am gona look at the rice bran oil again whilst the coconut info is still fresh in my head and hopefully midweek i will be able to tell you my opinions of curry fried with each different oil. So many oils to look at, maybe someone got some info on grapeseed oil for me as i thought it was rapeseed oil, now there is another oil on the market i didn't know about.
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Hi Rhod,
I paid about 24 pounds for 3x450ml tubs of organic virgin coconut oil including postage.
This stuff isn't cheap! Let us know what you think.
I'm waiting to see how much the one gallon tub will cost when Amazon actually list the price. It's a lovely product though. I couldn't taste coconut after I'd cooked a curry with it even when I used a whole 450 ml tub in a 3 litre curry base.
Are you in the UK? Sainsburys and Tesco both stock rice bran oil where I live.
Cheers,
Paul
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Yer there is a tesco's in the next town, we only got an asda and it's rubbish for anything speciality. I will post my thoughts on it and hopefully some pics (although i am lazy in the pic department). I should of ordered the organic rice bran oil of the internet, think i seen it somewhere but i had asked my local chinese shop first and they seemed keen to get some for me. Even the chinese lady their who cooks a lot of chinese food had never heard of it, strange!
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My first coconut oil!
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