Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: jamieb728 on September 18, 2010, 01:14 PM
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Hi
I was doing some work at an Indian restaurant yesterday and could not resist having a look in the kitchen unfortunately it was in the day time and non of the chefs were there so couldn't ask any questions.
Any way having looked through the kitchen which was very clean and tidy which is a good start, in front of the main stoves were the usual suspects mix powder, methi,salt etc but the thing i noticed and is why i may have to concede was the fact that there were 5 large catering sized tubs of pataks paste balti, kashmiri and a few others i couldn't read i have been against using them so far but i feel to take my curry to the next level i may need to experiment with adding pastes to my dishes to get that final restaurant taste.
Jamie
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Hi Jamie, this is a great post and gives lots of room for discussion.
It depends which restaurant taste you are aiming for. I have noticed the mention of pastes before and it seems that perhaps this is an increasing feature of our local takeaways. However is it the case that we should simply accept this and copy it or do we have personal thresholds below which we will not go?
Supposing we suddenly found out that our local takeaway started using Lloyd Grossman sauces? Would we be advocating their use? I'm not knocking these products. I am simply pointing out that all is required is to cook some chicken and then throw in the sauce. To me this is a cookery site and that's not cooking.
I feel that it is the blending of cooking of the spices that is one of the enjoyable aspects of Indian cookery. If I was going to start using pastes, then what I would prefer to do is make the pastes myself - perhaps trying to clone a Pataks paste. I can't see me personally buying these pastes and using them. To accept the lowest common denominator is a step I'm not willing to take.
Sure you will get BIR results with adding pastes. They will be results of a certain kind of BIR.
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Sure you will get BIR results with adding pastes. They will be results of a certain kind of BIR.
And it's a certain kind of BIR that is getting increasingly common unfortunately. I have to say Stephen that I agree with everything you've said but if, as it will be for many, this is the BIR taste, at least it should make the job of making a copy that much easier. Although why one would want to is beyond me.
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as ever SS you are 100% spot on
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Hi
Having read the comments and i do agree with what has been said why do you think so many bir's are using pastes? is it cheapness/ laziness or the convenience of the ingredients that they contain? it's probably a mix of all 3.
I personally don't want to use pastes in my cooking so it's a case of playing with spices to find that extra 5 or 10% flavour I'm looking for.
Jamie
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hi jamie the use of pastes has been discussed before and they are not the small glass jars they do for the likes of us, but the catering sized plastic jars.they are different to the normal 1's so unless you can get hold of them you won't get the same flavour. try an asian shops or a cash n curry, sorry ment carry lol :)
regards
gary
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My understanding was that the bigger jars were exactly the same thing as the smaller ones, just larger quantities.
Is this wrong?
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It is hard to disagree with the above however I did find in The Ashoka the use of Pataks Tandoori Paste used in their excellent bhuna Karahi though just a spoonful. I feel I always have the choice to cook a BIR replication that includes very often specific branded mixes such as Garam Masala or Curry Powder or Indian home cooking using spices from scratch and no base sauce. Interstingly The Chef explained that at home they all enjoy home made curry and none is made from a base. I have spent 30 plus years on the quest to reproduce in my case Glasgow standard BIR and apart from all the knowledge and know how in these pages The Ashoka visit led me to heaven. They use Eastend products and the Patak Paste. If I want world class BIR meals like I cooked on Friday night I have to use the Paste and Eastend mixes. We are kidding ourselves on if we think that the best and busiest BIRs across the land are not using branded Pastes and mixes IMHO. PP
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jamieb728,
Yes and No. if u've tasted the pataks stuff and made dippies tikka masala and balti u will no the reason for the yes and no.
these pastes u need to taste straight out the jar - they are simply put - real rubbish. so that's a NO.
trouble is the BIR halo has slipped a little. pretty much all of them i am sure are using them to some extent. my tikka paste, tandoori paste, kashmiri paste, kebab paste (pasco) are for now staying in the fridge. ps i need to get tanother jar of the balti paste as i've used the 1st.
i am sure small amounts in certain dishes are essential but i still don't believe universal use is necessary and most certainly not in large amounts.
for me i too intend to experiment a little with the stuff as u say as part of my BIR journey
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Hi guy's
This is where i get confused on the whole paste issue. I mean, when do they actually use it? I know Dipuraja uses it in his tikka masala sauce and I know that they (TA/BIR's) use it in their tandoori and tikka marinades, I also know that they use Kashmiri masala in their seekh kebabs, as I do but, when do they use it in their actual curries?
Once you have your g/g paste, mixed powder and the usual, chilli powder, turmeric, cumin ground coriander, methi, garam masala, why would they need to use paste?
I don't use pastes in my curries and I'm more than happy with my results, especially now that I've settled on my base and spice mix. I really wouldn't know when to add it? Would it be used in place of the mixed powder or along side it? If the latter was the case, surely the end dish would be overspiced, wouldn't it? which for me, is typical of a lot of TA's/BIR's these days!
Ray :)
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Hi guy's
This is where i get confused on the whole paste issue. I mean, when do they actually use it? I know Dipuraja uses it in his tikka masala sauce and I know that they (TA/BIR's) use it in their tandoori and tikka marinades, I also know that they use Kashmiri masala in their seekh kebabs, as I do but, when do they use it in their actual curries?
Once you have your g/g paste, mixed powder and the usual, chilli powder, turmeric, cumin ground coriander, methi, garam masala, why would they need to use paste?
I don't use pastes in my curries and I'm more than happy with my results, especially now that I've settled on my base and spice mix. I really wouldn't know when to add it? Would it be used in place of the mixed powder or along side it? If the latter was the case, surely the end dish would be overspiced, wouldn't it? which for me, is typical of a lot of TA's/BIR's these days!
Ray :)
Ray,
The only time that I have seen any pastes used in addition to the examples you have given is a teaspoon of balti paste added to certain curries to produce "balti" dishes.
Mick
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Hi Mick,
Ray,
The only time that I have seen any pastes used in addition to the examples you have given is a teaspoon of balti paste added to certain curries to produce "balti" dishes.
Mick
I guess that's where I get confused. Couldn't they simply create a spice mix, that has that balti flavour? Just checking the ingredients on the jar should give them some clues. I really can't see the need for pastes, and Im pretty sure powders would be cheaper than pastes anyway, wouldn't they?
Ray :)
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Hi Mick,
Ray,
The only time that I have seen any pastes used in addition to the examples you have given is a teaspoon of balti paste added to certain curries to produce "balti" dishes.
Mick
I guess that's where I get confused. Couldn't they simply create a spice mix, that has that balti flavour? Just checking the ingredients on the jar should give them some clues. I really can't see the need for pastes, and Im pretty sure powders would be cheaper than pastes anyway, wouldn't they?
Ray :)
I suppose it would be possible to do as you say but it seems its just too easy to buy a jar of ready made paste, quicker but maybe not better,
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I think AchMal is right , T/A probably use pastes for speed , I sat in the waiting area for my T/A last night the Restaurant was heaving :o and the waiters were running around like nutters :) God knows what it must have been like in the kitchen ! I am sure anything that could help that situation would be very welcome.
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I have used this book to make a paste for balti's http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Balti-Curry-Cookbook/dp/1844541940/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284932639&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Balti-Curry-Cookbook/dp/1844541940/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284932639&sr=8-1)
Must admit though its not that good, balti's taste a bit too much of vinegar, but can be altered and can be very tasty especially the Balti Dhansak recipe.
It is very time consuming to make the pastes so having it already made for you is easier.
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I see what Razor is saying. I don't remember ever seeing a Madras recipe that uses a spoon of paste in the recipe.
I think it's much more likely it is used in starters. I use Kashmiri Masala paste in my kebabs, tikka and onion bhajis.
If it turns out they do use it somewhere (the base maybe?), and it gives us the result we want and makes the recipe easier then I'm all behind it. I'm definitely a paste convert.