Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on September 12, 2010, 10:26 AM
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i've not cooked for almost 4 mths now. in the interim i've been making up the curry shortfall at the TA.
my remaining "gap" to BIR has been proving very difficult to identify - in tasting my dishes and comparing with BIR TA.
i'm 100% confident that it's not the base or the equipment or the technique.
the differences in general terms seem to be:
1) lots more chopped onion in the BIR
2) very little use of green pepper and very small pieces when used in the BIR
3) hardly any tom puree used in the BIR
4) more garlic in the BIR somehow - i can always taste garlic the next day but not after my own cooking.
one thing that i can't get out my mind is mix powder - i'm sceptical that we have the full BIR picture. i think CA might have been on the right track with adding other ingredients (garlic,ginger).
clearly i'm going to try these few tweaks over the coming weeks.
after these i'm really struggling on what we're all missing. any specific thoughts on things to look at would be appreciated specifically ingredients or pastes.
i sort of looking at it as a process of elimination. i've got to the point when i think this might work as i'm pretty settled in most that i do now and can live with the time that it will take to work through each change one at a time.
Has anyone had any breakthrough thought's
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Iv'e just made a post in curry videos, and hopefully it will be of some help to you when I post the video. I'm just waiting on one of the members (Gazman 1976) to help me post the video.
Cheers EHC
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Hi Jerry,
I've always thought the same as you with regards to garlic. After a restaurant BIR, the garlic taste the day after is very strong. With this in mind, and trying to get more savouriness into my curries, here's my spice blend;
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4706.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4706.0)
I know you have been wary of methi in the past, but it works a treat in this blend. Anyway, have a look and see what you think.
Ray :)
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Hi Jerry,
I made my usual Garlic Chilli Chicken at the weekend. I normally use 2 cloves of garlic sliced as well as the usual 1 tsp of garlic and ginger as well.
This time I used 5 cloves of garlic and I also reduced my 1 tbsp tomato puree down to 1 tsp.
I have to say that the dish turned out much better than normal. Usually its quite an abrupt/raw tasting dish and although very enjoyable I also felt that something was not quite right.
However, on Saturday this dish totally transpired from that rawish taste to one of a more mellow curry where you could actually taste the other spices too and much more reminiscent of a BIR curry. A much needed improvement :)
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appreciate all your thoughts.
real looking fwd to extrahotchillie's video - tantalising
Razor,
i'm now ok with methi (use loads in dippies biryani). i've just made a batch of jb's mix and will need to try this 1st but will then adapt it to as close as poss to yours.
given what 976bar says i am now convinced to go ahead with what was in my mind - (against my normal principles) - buy a jar of processed garlic paste. i've seen a lot of these jars on the shelf and someone must be buying them.
it's worth a try given what Axe reports from IG (oil, puree, garlic) - the puree at my local TA is not runny but it's darker than out of the tin. i've tried making my own garlic but that did not work. hence try the shop version.
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Hi Jerry,
It's worth making your own garlic puree really. You can buy jars of ready peeled garlic in either oil, brine or vinegar (pickled).
I just put all of these into my food processor with about half of the juice from the jar and 1 tsp turmeric (this helps to preserve it), then blend until you have a smooth puree. Transfer back to the jar and cover with about 1cm of oil over the top to keep fresh.
I find this will keep fine refrigerated for around 4 weeks if it lasts that long lol
The problem with the tubes of ready made garlic puree is that most of them have preservatives in them.
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I agree that the missing link might lie within the garlic, but I think it's down to how it is cooked rather than how much is included. I think we add in the spices / base sauce too early. To me that BIR taste is more of a roasted garlic taste. I think the g/g paste needs to be properly brown befoe adding other ingredients.
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buy a jar of processed garlic paste. i've seen a lot of these jars on the shelf and someone must be buying them.
But why Jerry...why?
It's this trend towards everything being pre-prepared that is giving the BIRs a bad name.
You start with Pataks pastes, then add pre-pulped garlic and ginger. Where does it end?
The reason the BIRs are generally so naff now is that they have gone down this route too.
It may well lead you to be able to reproduce the taste of your local BIR but is that what we really strive for? Why not just go the whole hog and buy a jar of Pataks madras sauce or vindaloo sauce.
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Secret Santa,
u know me too well - i'm not happy at all at the thought of clutching a bottle of garlic paste through the checkouts at my local Asian store for sure.
of course along the lines of 975bar - i'd like to make my own. trouble is i've had a go at that (roasting bulbs and extracting the pulp to add to the puree) but the taste i'm after which is a general one across dishes was not there.
i appreciate long term i need some serious recipe refinement to complete my jigsaw (on the dishes i'm not happy with). i'd just like to get this general missing gap sorted 1st. it may well not be garlic but i can't think what else it could be as i've tried pretty much everthing else. the 2 things that look "dodgy" in my local TA are the mix powder and the tom puree - i'm convinced my gap is in that location. "dodgy" because these areas the chef won't talk about. i'm thinking of changing tack and asking for a sample as this seems a more comfortable approach down to the english barrier.
i do like chriswg's idea of browning the g/g paste - this i don't do at the mo as i'm frightened of burning it. as soon as the g/g paste becomes sticky i pull the pan off the heat. i'll give chriswg's idea ago for sure.
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trouble is i've had a go at that (roasting bulbs and extracting the pulp to add to the puree) but the taste i'm after which is a general one across dishes was not there.
Jerry - you roast your garlic for puree for use in BIR cooking?
I use roasted garlic in other cuisines, and find it imparts a quite different taste.
Just wanted to clarify...
-- Josh
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josh,
no i don't use roast garlic at all. i did a trial following Axe's comment that IG put garlic in their tom puree. i roasted a few garlic whole bulbs and added it to the tom puree. i was very surprised with the result as i expected to have success. unfortunately no good - i could tell no difference in a side by side comparison with plain puree (there's a post on it).
the conclusion was that u would have to put such a lot of the roasted garlic in that it would not be commercially viable (more garlic than puree) - hence my search continues for how BIR's do it (get that taste of garlic in your mouth the day after - but more importantly i think lift the curry in a way that gel's the other ingredients together).
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Hi
In case it is of any help / interest - the new controversial book that people have been discussing very recently has a interesting mix of a generous amount tandoori masala and powdered garlic added to the tomato puree and then mixed with some oil to lighten the consistency.
I have been using this method ever since reading it and personally speaking very pleased with the results, plus you do get that garlicky after-taste that you describe which is actually very pleasant.
Cheers
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MINT MINT MINT, ;D i dont think we use enough, and its quite noticable in several good bir ta's i frequent. its for balti especially. I suspect they use dry mint leaves, if you are wondering.
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very pleased with the results, plus you do get that garlicky after-taste that you describe which is actually very pleasant.
Solarsplace,
not seen any post - must have missed it - which is the book. can u give more detail on typical proportions.
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Hi JerryM,
Have you missed this one:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4776.0)
I've got the book but not tried it yet.
That thread is about 32 pages long now!
Paul.
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very pleased with the results, plus you do get that garlicky after-taste that you describe which is actually very pleasant.
Solarsplace,
not seen any post - must have missed it - which is the book. can u give more detail on typical proportions.
Hi Jerry
Yes, that is a monster thread LOL.
Anyway, not got the book with me, so if no one else can confirm during the day then I will check and let you know exactly what it says later.
But to give you an idea for now (I assume I based this on what it says? can't remember now) I use:
1 x side-dish sized plastic take-away container.
Fill 3/4 full with White Tower tomato paste
1 x heaped tsp of garlic powder
1 x heaped tsp of tandori masala powder
Edit: Then gradually blend in veg oil to reach an emulsion like consistency.
The book (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Undercover-Curry-Insiders-British-Restaurant/dp/0956525709 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Undercover-Curry-Insiders-British-Restaurant/dp/0956525709)) also suggests that ginger powder could also / either / or be added.
The first time I made it I put all 3 things in and it tasted fantastic, but I just decided this time to start trying things individually otherwise its impossible to be sure what exactly is causing an improvement etc.
Hope that is of some interest.
Cheers
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PaulP/Solarsplace,
thanks for the info on the book - have missed it completely. will read the post next.
i'm not really sold on books these day's in general cooking & curry - i've bought quite a few and they rarely deliver on the promise. i feel this site has better info - it's just being able to sift it economically in terms of avoiding too many disasters.
i've tried garlic & ginger powder in spice mix before (CA's aka mix). at the time i did feel it made an improvement (it also included cardamom seed which i thought was helpful too). it may well be that i just need to up the proportion - i'm thinking more like 4 tsp as opposed to the 1 tsp per TA side container of puree.
i did not feel it sorted the gap i'm looking for hence the trial on using roasted garlic (which needed far too much garlic to make a difference).
trouble is as Solarsplace says it easy to make too many changes. i'm now in a position when i can slow down and makes changes one at a time.
i add tom puree and mix powder at the same time during frying - consequently i can't see powder being any different in the mix powder (ie aka) c/w putting it in the tom puree. i'm not confident it's what i need - hence i still intend getting some garlic puree - then i can do side by side on both.
i do like a tad of tandoori masala in quite a few dishes (i think picked up from CA through several of his recipes or even the aka mix powder). i also put all purpose seasoning in some dishes too (from Secret Santa suggestion).
just to be clear i'm not being negative on garlic/ginger powder in mix powder - i expect to adopt. i just think there's perhaps a place for the puree - going into main dishes -as i've never tried it it's just another thing to be certain of one way or the other.
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I've also used mix powder containing powdered ginger and garlic and it hasn't really got me closer to the elusive taste.
Cheers
Paul.
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After you've blended your base keep it on the hob and precook your chicken in it. It's spot on.
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i ended up making my own garlic paste last week (my local spiceworld looks as if it's no more). based it on ashoka g/g paste but left out the ginger.
thankfully did not have enough base to try it out and now have a jar of the bought stuff to enable side by side taste comparison. quite stagerring the difference in taste. the bought stuff tasting far better (and very nice). the home made being quite sharp and sort of raw (i think it's far too condensed and would need diluting with something).
ingredients for the bought: garlic, soya bean oil, water, acetic acid, lactic acid, sodium isoascorbate, sodium metabisulfite. hence nothing in it for me that sets the taste so far apart.
ps this is now about recipe refinement than taste - two-sheds post "salt how much to add" has sorted me out on the elusive BIR after taste.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2057561c305bd9f77d4ca28142648fba.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#2057561c305bd9f77d4ca28142648fba.jpg)