Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on November 03, 2022, 06:10 PM
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am in need of sanity check on how to approach. i don't see quick fix but a lot of trial and error using small portions.
rekindled interest comes from eating in turkey and realizing bbq lamb can be very very good much better than anything bought or cooked in the uk.
the nearest example i can give is the equivalent to pink best quality beef rump steak - juicy with texture but not tuff. have cooked rack of lamb (lamb loin) in the oven to pink but even this is still tuff.
torture to date:
1) from 976bar original lamb tikka post tried kiwi fruit. it turned the lamb into mush and the bbq finished meat awful. it was that bad i have no written record - i think i tenderized in the kiwi for 40 mins before washing off, then marinade and bbq
2) asked a trusted butcher who recommended neck fillet - this was worse than 1st go - neck fillet has fat and sinu which is impractical to remove. the fat taste is overwhelming. to correct then pan fried to crisp/remove the fat but side effect meat overcooked
plan:
1) use leg of lamb - lean and easy to cube (lamb rump too small to be commercial)
2) first option use kiwi fruit to tenderize but say 10 mins max then wash off
3) second option oven slow cook at 60C to keep it pink and not loose water
4) the turkish lamb was finished on bbq but looked already part cooked (was on skewers)
unknowms
1) is acid too brutal for lamb (many appear to have had success) - will it kill the pinkness
aim to use 976bar instructions with confidence
"I just put the sizzler plate on a low heat for about 10 minutes, then turned the heat up added a drizzle of oil then put the onion slices and sliced red pepper on. The immediate infusion of the onion and pepper cooking is addictive. I left these to cook for about 3 minutes, turning them otherwise they will burn, then I added the lamb tikka and tossed the lot around the sizzler for about five minutes until the onions and peppers were cooked and the lamb was warmed through but not too much so as to dry it out."
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The enzymes in kiwifruit and pawpaw are very strong and will destroy texture if left for too long. Good lamb should not require this treatment. I have a Greek friend whose father (now in his 90's) cooked the best lamb skewers you can imagine. A very simple marinade of olive oil, lemon juice, white wine, garlic, salt and oregano. Don't cut the meat too small. 1 1/2" cubes is ideal. Lamb cubes will shrink a lot if overdone and people do have the tendency to overcook. It will take on a beautiful flavour if cooked over hot coals like heat beads or lump charcoal. It needs to be close enough to the heat which scorches the outside leaving the middle pink. Fat dripping from the lamb onto the coals will cause flame ups and this is great for flavour. The bigger your cuts the further from the heat and slower cooking. If your lamb is too lean you may need to add some fat between the cubes.
Onion juice, tomato puree and lemon juice will all tenderise meat and go great with lamb. Salt, pepper, red peppers, chillis and of course garlic all go great with lamb. I would avoid yogurt, but I have read that milk is sometimes used in Turkish marinades.
12 years ago, for my eldest daughter's 18th birthday, I made a souvla grill / charcoal barbecue just for lamb skewers and cut, marinated and cooked 5 legs, but the best lamb skewers I've ever eaten were cooked on a $20 hardware store Hibachi BBQ using heat beads and served with a squeeze of lemon juice and pinch of salt.
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If your lamb is too lean you may need to add some fat between the cubes.
"If your lamb is too lean", it is probably not going to give you the flavour that you aer setting out to achieve. Think of a rasher of bacon — which tastes better, one than is 99% lean, or one that had 25–30% fat ? For souvlakia 25–30% is probably excessive, so I would aim for 10–15%. And look on the web for marinading recipes, not to tenderize the lamb (should not be necessary) but to give that authentic middle-eastern flavour.
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** Phil.
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Phil, Livo,
thoughts much appreciated.
the "fat" content or smoke taste is not a priority as the tikka or dry rub is the real taste in this dish. been through mild torture making my own burgers finally realizing the flipping and flaming of the fat so critical (20% fat needed).
from what u say feel i have a way forward as a 2nd go.
Livo's marinade is it in a nut shell. also "scorches the outside leaving the middle pink" is the other part. dropping the yogurt fits the bill.
have made souvlaki in the past but had the same problem of toughness. this u don't get in chicken.
so plan is
1) use lamb leg 1.5" cube
2) oven slow cook at 60C on open rack (how long who knows say 1hr)
3) marinate per livo say 24hrs
4) pan fry rocket heat
for info and with hindsight of 1st go used my gas bbq and adding 4 sticks will have killed the heat. the yogurt marinade held back the scorching.
for info tikka is IFFU
turkish mix (units volume)
6 paprika
2 garlic powder
1 oregano
1 onion powder
1 white pepper
1/2 salt
1/4 dry mint
1/4 cumin
greek mix (this is still in work and not quite right)
1 cumin
1 garlic
3/4 onion powder
1/2 paprika
1/2 oregano
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1) use lamb leg 1.5" cube
2) oven slow cook at 60C on open rack (how long who knows say 1hr)
3) marinate per livo say 24hrs
4) pan fry rocket heat
Is the "pan fry" because you don't have a barbecue or a steak grill, Jerry ? I ask because in my (admittedly limited) experience, Greeks and Turks who cook souvlakia / şiş over a charcoal grill do not pre-cook in a low oven, and in your position I would be looking for a way to try to avoid this stage if authenticity is desired ...
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** Phil.
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Slightly different angle to above, but my daughter recently did a leg of lamb - scored it to the bone in criss cross pattern then spread lebanese shwarma spice mix over it - rub style, then slow cooked in oven for 4 hours. Outsides crispy, meat pull aparty - so she shredded crispy duck style and had in pitta bread with salad & tahini sauce - shwarma style. She said it was very tasty a la middle east shwarmas.
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Phil,
yes for sure needs to be on bbq. the pan fry being that i have complete control to assess the toughness as the meat cooks - can take out pan cut in half and taste or put back in pan if not quite there .
Ghoulie.
your shawama recipe is a 10 and 1 of the tastes i add to slow cook for lamb (hoi sin and kleftico the others)
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used top half leg of lamb. produced 600g of big chunks, half slow cook 3hr 60C followed by marinade overnight, other half marinade 24hrs. it als produced 150g of small chunks which were pan fried.
all 3 batches tasted good but all note quite there:
1) pan fry and 24hr marianade tasted the best but both chewy
2) slow cook and overnight marinade tender but lost that juiciness and expectation of how it should taste
going fwd:
1) need to try the kiwi
2) try 3day acid marinade for improved tenderness
3) explore more expensive cuts - the 11£/kg leg was actually £19 usable meat
the marinade a cut down Livo's:
2tsp lime juice
2 tbsp virgin olive oil
0.5 tsp salt
1 tsp oregano
meat prep took 30mins:
1.4kg top half leg, 500g waste (35%), 650g big cubes, 150g small cube, 50g stew meat
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Cheers Phil - it’s so tasty considering how simple it is. The tahini sauce just makes it that bit better too for me
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This isn't tikka / skewers but it was really good. Cooked earlier this week. 8 hours lamb shoulder on my new little toy 3 in 1 charcoal grill / roaster / smoker BBQ. I lit the heat beads and hardwood lump charcoals at about 11.00 am and took the finished lamb off at around 8.00 pm. Internal temp was just above medium well but below well done.
I can't wait to try a Beef Brisket with some rub and smoking timber chunks.
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Oh good lord that looks amazing. Nice work Livo. Smoking is one of my favorite things with meat. Our new digitally controlled smoker allows fine temp control too, so fish and hopefully cheese will get the treatment now the cooler temps are coming.
Robbo
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You'll appreciate this Robbo. I couldn't resist the upgrade and bought myself an early Christmas present. I came upon an advertisement for this. It's a near new 22" Fornetto Razzo, with loads of additional accessories and nearly Aus $200 worth of lump charcoal, briquettes and smoking wood (Mesquite, Apple, Cherry and Pecan) starter chimney, cover etc. I simply could not let it pass. The previous owner is an American who has been out here for 18 years and has just returned home to Alabama. His wife (an Aussie) is tidying up over here before she joins him.
I pretty much paid only the price of the consumables, so everything hardware was essentially free. I could not believe my luck. Anyway, I only picked it up today but I've already bought a beef brisket, which I will prepare with a rub tonight, allow it to sit in the fridge for a day, and then light a fire first thing Saturday morning. I was told that with the large fire basket and properly set, this thing will burn at good temperature for up to 14 hours. That's a bit different to a tandoor but I can't wait to tuck into a slow cooked Mesquite smoked Brisket.
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Proper jealous livo. Lovely set up you have there. All I've got is a rusty old Weber and a bottle of Mesquite liquid smoke, which is not quite the same thing.
Rob :tears:
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You'll appreciate this Robbo. I couldn't resist the upgrade and bought myself an early Christmas present. I came upon an advertisement for this. It's a near new 22" Fornetto Razzo, with loads of additional accessories and nearly Aus $200 worth of lump charcoal, briquettes and smoking wood (Mesquite, Apple, Cherry and Pecan) starter chimney, cover etc. I simply could not let it pass. The previous owner is an American who has been out here for 18 years and has just returned home to Alabama. His wife (an Aussie) is tidying up over here before she joins him.
I pretty much paid only the price of the consumables, so everything hardware was essentially free. I could not believe my luck. Anyway, I only picked it up today but I've already bought a beef brisket, which I will prepare with a rub tonight, allow it to sit in the fridge for a day, and then light a fire first thing Saturday morning. I was told that with the large fire basket and properly set, this thing will burn at good temperature for up to 14 hours. That's a bit different to a tandoor but I can't wait to tuck into a slow cooked Mesquite smoked Brisket.
Wow awesome setup. I would love to have the recipe for the brisket when youve cracked it
Cheers
Mick
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I've been watching quite a few videos on smoking brisket and there's a fairly common procedure followed throughout most of them, albeit with some variations.
Unfortunately, my wife has reminded me we have a function to attend tomorrow night so it will be a Sunday cook instead.
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Wow Livo, Christmas did come early! Looks a very nice piece of kit. I loved our simple smoker down in the Carolina’s but after we moved north, we got this baby.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/38260b3634c650c5d1f5781031ec599b.jpeg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#38260b3634c650c5d1f5781031ec599b.jpeg)
Digital temperature control, uses wood chips, no bagged charcoal to mess about with.
Results so far with chillies, pork butt, salmon have been great. Going to leave it outside this winter and try my hand at low temperature cheese smoking.
I’ll ask the missis if she has a documented recipe for her smoked brisket and report back.
Looking forward to your pics Livo…
Robbo
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That would be greatly appreciated Robbo. I'll post over in the non-curry section.