Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: mickdabass on September 07, 2022, 04:07 PM
-
MDB’s Birmingham Balti Gravy 100% Clone Al Frash Balti Restaurant and simple Balti Recipie Mk II Simplified Method
This is the same recipe as the MKI recipe but a different methodology.
I have simplified it to a 2 pot affair
For the Gravy you will need:
• Stick Blender
• A fine sieve
• Weighing Scales
• 1 Large Pan with lid for onions approx. 5 litres
• 1 Small/Medium pan with lid for Akhni Stock approx. 1 litre
Ingredients:
100g vegetable oil – not olive oil
1 kg onion, roughly chopped
1 tsp salt
small pinch Ajwain seeds
1/2 green and 1/2 red pepper, chopped
125g fresh carrot, roughly chopped
Whole Spices:
Weigh 55g pieces of cassia bark broken up into 1 inch pieces
5 cloves
10 green cardamom pods cracked
3 star anise
5 tej patta (Indian bay leaves) dried DON’T use normal bay leaves – omit instead
Spice Mix: (rounded teaspoons)
2 tsp Kashmiri Mirch chilli powder (optional)
2.5 tsp coriander powder
1.5 tsp cumin powder
3 tsp turmeric powder
2.5 tsp curry powder
a good pinch kasoori methi (dried Fenugreek Leaves)
2 tsp garam masala powder
Large handful fresh coriander roughly chopped
30g peeled fresh garlic
30g peeled fresh ginger
250g of chopped tomatoes
Method:
Take the large pan and add:
100g vegetable oil
1 kg onion, roughly chopped
1 tsp salt
1pint cold water
1/2 green and 1/2 red pepper, chopped
125g fresh carrot, roughly chopped
Take 30g peeled fresh garlic
30g peeled fresh ginger
Using a stick blender, blitz 30g garlic and 30g ginger with a small amount of water into an emulsion and
add to the onions along with a small pinch Ajwain seeds (optional)
Bring to the boil. Cover and simmer for 1 hr stirring frequently
While the onions are cooking:
Take:
whole spices,
Drop these into the second pan, along with 1 pint of water and simmer with lid on for an hour stirring occasionally to make an Akhni Stock
After an hour strain the Akhni Stock from the second pan through the fine sieve directly into the large pan of onions
discard the whole spices.
stir well
Add the fresh coriander, the chopped tomato and the powdered spices into the large pan of onions and allow to simmer for five minutes
Blend Well
Add additional water to desired gravy consistency.
The Gravy is now ready to use.
Once cooled, it can be stored in the refrigerator for 4-5 days without any problem
To make simple balti:
No need for additional ground spices or extra salt!
Ingredients:
Cooking Oil - any will do except olive oil
¼ medium onion Finely chopped
¼ medium tomato Finely chopped
Garlic Paste
Roughly chopped fresh coriander (to taste) I use quite a lot
Method:
In a frying pan on medium heat add 1 chef spoon oil
add onion
When just starting to go brown around the edges
add 1/2 tsp minced garlic
Once the spitting has stopped
Add 1/2 large raw chicken breast diced into 1inch cubes (pre-cooked chicken can be used but add after 3rd reduction to avoid overcooking)
Turn up heat
Add 1st ladle gravy
Reduce well until oil starts to separate
Add 2nd ladle gravy
add the chopped tomato
Reduce well until oil starts to separate
Add 3rd ladle gravy, stir in chopped fresh coriander and reduce to desired consistency
finish on low heat until chicken is cooked
Leave to stand for a few minutes and serve with hot naan.
-
Think you've missed the blending of the gravy bit out of this recipe Mick
-
It really doesn't matter mv. It's the same recipe and whether you choose to do it as per original, Rev 1 or Rev 2, or vary it to use a pressure cooker, it's the same base gravy, and a good one at that. Good of you to point it out though.
-
Thanks guys. Think I need a proof reader
-
Whilst sorting though books to recycle I came across the Lasan restaurant's Simple Home Cooking, by Aktar Islam (F Word winner). It's a booklet. I got it free when the Lasan were doing a cooking demonstration in Birmingham city centre many years ago. A quick peruse and the obligatory "essential spices" section looked interesting. The usual suspects for the powdered spices, but including Madras curry powder. I thought this is quite refreshing from a chef of his reputation. But the whole spices list got me thinking (about Mick's recipe and the Birmingham Balti in general):
Cassia bark, Cassia leaves, Green Cardamom, Black Cardamon, Sun Dried Chillies, Black Peppercorns, Cloves, Star Anise, Coriander seed, Cumin seed.
Can't say I have seen Cassia Bark and Cassia Leaves (Tej Patta?) at the top of this kind of list before. Just a thought. I do now have another superlative for Mick's recipes though:
Michelin star Balti!
Rob
-
I made 2 curries using Mick’s balti base last night.
One following the recipe to the letter for the missis that she described as delicious. I thought it very tasty too, with a slight background sweetness.
Served with frozen naan’s from our local Trader Joe’s. I noticed on the packaging they’re actually imported from India. Who’da thought? Sprinkle with a little water and heat them up in cast iron skillet, adding butter and flipping a couple of times.
The 2nd curry for myself was a variation, adding:
10g fresh ginger, minced
1clove garlic, minced
Good pinch kasuri methi
5 Thai chillies
1/2tsp extra hot chilli powder
1/2tsp coriander powder
2 green cardamom pods, split
1 black cardamom
Last night I thought it was a decent dish, but this morning at 9:30 (my elevenses get earlier and earlier), WOW! Absolutely spot on BIR for me. I don’t say that very much about my curries, but Mick’s base is bringing some great results.
@LahoreBob, I know you love the standard dish as is, but give it a bash, using the base as a base. You won’t be disappointed.
Robbo
-
@LahoreBob, I know you love the standard dish as is, but give it a bash, using the base as a base. You won’t be disappointed.
Robbo
I was also tinkering with Mick's benchmark recipe last night Robbo. Had a go at a Balti Garlic Chicken, of sorts. Think I made one change too many. Did a taste test and popped it the fridge to have tonight. First impression was it looks the part, as a takeaway, I guess. The pan additions for cooking were 1 1/2 tsp Kashmiri chilli powder (very mild), 1 sliced green finger chilli, 1 and a bit tsp hot garlic chutney and about a tbsp of julienned ginger. I fried the latter in a separate pan with some of the oil spooned off the curry and added it late on. Rotisserie chicken. I just cut some strips and pushed them into the finished dish, with a fork.
First impression was it tasted a bit too hot for me. However, importantly, it retained the immense depth of flavour, with a nice deeply roasted garlic edge. So it's lush. Reckon it's overly sweet though, due to the chutney. My first choice here would have been Janu's hot garlic pickle, but not been able to get any for a long time. Noticed this morning that the chutney is 45 % sugar. So fairly certain I will have botched this one. I might heat it up in a balti dish with a squeeze of fresh lemon. It won't be up to Mick's Balti Chicken standard, cooked to spec. All good fun though.
Rob
-
I was just contemplating Misty Ricardo's balti base where he adds whole garam masala and then blends it at the end so it's left in the sauce. I wondered what the difference would be, if any, in grinding garam masala powder from the same whole spices and adding that in instead of the whole masala. I think it would be better to do it that way if it made no difference to the flavour and I can't really think of why it would.
-
I won't blend the whole spices in again. Give it a try Santa.
-
Bought the bag on the right today. I use this in my Abdul's Manchester Shami kebab recipe.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/1150bfef1539284c008ebcce290de045.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#1150bfef1539284c008ebcce290de045.jpg)
The bag on the left is what I use for MDB Balti base (and Misty's).
Opened both. The aroma of each is quite obviously different, hugely, in terms of intensity. They are not the same thing. The bag on left has a very delicate aroma, so faint it is difficult (for me anyway) to say what it smells like. The other bag is pungent by comparison and smells of cinnamon, mulled wine.
Rob
-
Exactly, and this presents another of those areas of confusion as people of Indian background often / usually say cinnamon when they are obviously referring to and using cassia bark. Imagine using 55 grams of true cinnamon in a base gravy, or putting cassia powder sugar mix on your buttered toast. My local Indian grocers (both stores) tried to tell me they are the same and appeared very confused when I insisted that they are not.
I used to use actual cinnamon in every instance of the spice being mentioned in recipes. I now have to question this and there is no real way to determine which is required unless the ingredients are illustrated, visually presented in video or clearly identified.
-
Exactly, and this presents another of those areas of confusion as people of Indian background often / usually say cinnamon when they are obviously referring to and using cassia bark. Imagine using 55 grams of true cinnamon in a base gravy, or putting cassia powder sugar mix on your buttered toast. My local Indian grocers (both stores) tried to tell me they are the same and appeared very confused when I insisted that they are not.
Yep, and it's got past Sainburys here too. Bought both bags from one of their larger stores. Looks like they are ditching the Cofresh (poor) Asian brand for Fudco. Only used two of their products so far. The left bag, cassia; excellent. Their Black Pepper Poppadoms are also very good, imo. It is disappointing they are not up to speed on the Birmingham Balti.
For me, ignore what the "cassia, etc." labelling says. Just pick the dark, rough outer, semi-circles. As Mick said, ...you could make a canoe out of it. Above all, if in doubt, trust your hooter.
Rob
-
So, to be clear, for MDB's balti sauce we should be using cassia, right?
I've just bought a kilo of true Ceylon cinnamon so have plenty to go around if that's what should be used instead, though I doubt it should be used here.
-
Correct. Cassia Bark. A kg of true Ceylon Cinnamon will last you quite a while SS.
I've just watched 2 videos for a pre-cooked chicken & a Garam Masala and the word Cinnamon is used when the spice actually shown is clearly Cassia Bark.
-
I used Mick’s base again yesterday with a couple of variations.
1. Cooked at lunchtime to let the curry rest for 7 hours or so till dinner, rather than the full overnight.
2. Used some meat from a rotisserie chicken from Costco rather than raw or BIR pre-cooked.
I cooked with a few spices, ginger garlic paste and some fresh Thai chillies, as per my heat preference.
Verdict:
OK but nowhere near as good as when using fresh chicken.
And next morning had improved a bit, but not as much as last time.
Lesson learned. Overnight is next trial, although cooking and then not eating is going to be tough.
This base is definitely going to be repeated.
Robbo
-
I found this article that might be of interest. It seems that the thicker the cassia bark/Chinese Cinnamon, the better/more expensive it is
https://www.superfoodevolution.com/chinese-cinnamon.html (https://www.superfoodevolution.com/chinese-cinnamon.html)
I am not an expert in cassia bark but Ive noticed that the stuff Ive used of late has been very thin and probably not as potent.
Perhaps this would explain the variations in blandness??
Regards
Mick
-
Last night's go at a Balti Garlic Chicken using Mick's base. The Al Frash menu described theirs as barbecued chicken infused with fresh herbs, chilli sauce and fresh coriander.
Pan cooked and straight to balti bowl. 2 1/2 mins under a hot grill, to finish. Have made a few along these lines recently. The additions I did for this one were 3 cloves of garlic (chopped), 1 tsp kashmiri chilli powder, 2 tsp kasuri methi and a slosh of Sriracha hot chilli sauce. Rotisserie chicken cut into strips. Another min under the grill would have got the edges charred.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c1666d00b2fceb5a4c6185bab4ec56a4.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c1666d00b2fceb5a4c6185bab4ec56a4.jpg)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b7871b98f25ff903e101919e8028d046.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b7871b98f25ff903e101919e8028d046.jpg)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8f837ee48fc01a5e5ef10f103f37669c.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#8f837ee48fc01a5e5ef10f103f37669c.jpg)
10/10.
Will be making this again. Could try mixed herbs, but a goodly about of fresh methi is tempting. I don't know if it is in season. Balti Garlic Methi Chicken. Mmm.
Also, I was thinking last night how I would change it into a Balti Garlic Chilli Chicken. Reckon just a couple of finely chopped fresh green chillies as a garnish would do it. Recall back in the Rusholme days several of the curry houses served this way. You used to get an extra little dish of them too, to top up, if required.
Looking forward to incorporating the kashmiri chilli into the base next time I make it, as per Mick's MKII recipe. I have tried two brands so far. TRS and some organic stuff from Amazon. Early days but I think the latter is the best of the two.
Rob
-
That looks amazing Rob.
Thanks again for all of the positive feedback.
I feel very humbled
Regards
Mick
-
Looks great Rob. Chicken, garlic and methi. mmmmm!!! I don't see fresh methi out here, but I can get frozen cubes sometimes. I probably should try to plant some seeds to see what happens. Here's an interesting trick you might try though. I have a recipe for Indian scrambled eggs which I cook fairly regularly. It says to use fresh methi, but it also advises if you can't get it to substitute chopped celery leaves. I use it every time now as I have it growing all year round.
Mick, your base gravy is a hit. Well done.
-
Looks great Rob. Chicken, garlic and methi. mmmmm!!! I don't see fresh methi out here, but I can get frozen cubes sometimes. I probably should try to plant some seeds to see what happens.
I think fresh would make a fancy balti. I tried the frozen blocks once and we did not get on. Here is a thread from yesteryear. Methi Chicken (not balti). Frozen block on the last page.
www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11980.msg95738.html#msg95738
Rob
-
That looks amazing Rob.
Thanks again for all of the positive feedback.
I feel very humbled
Regards
Mick
It's Balti night every night at the moment Mick. Your base recipe is just incredible! I won't be making anything else. I think the options it gives will be limitless. However, I make your chicken recipe regularly as the benchmark, so I don't stray off too far.
This one went in the fridge. Made to spec, except for a pinch of salt and 1 tsp kashmiri chilli powder. Rotisserie chicken. The next day I offloaded some of the oil and reheated in the combi oven/grill. May have overdone the grill by a fraction. But that's OK, just needs more practice. 10/10 as usual. All that is missing is a garlic naan bread, smothered in ghee butter. Balti paradise!
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/0af8042716c30e8d69550d46235c6b58.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#0af8042716c30e8d69550d46235c6b58.jpg)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/10469fd36f6cb9973c78c27ce359938a.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#10469fd36f6cb9973c78c27ce359938a.jpg)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/d49abde6feeb2e9f119e6931506abf30.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#d49abde6feeb2e9f119e6931506abf30.jpg)
Thanks again
Rob
-
I knew I had a photo somewhere of an Al Frash Balti, and here it is.
Youre right Rob, the oil has a reddish tint to it
Regards
Mick
-
Great photo Mick. Proper. I am getting on nicely with the kashmiri powder. Finding a good rounded tsp in the pan does not impair the flavour. It will be good to get it into the base, as in your MKII recipe.
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ec06b1196b638e665862cd7392fe1c30.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ec06b1196b638e665862cd7392fe1c30.jpg)
Here's a couple of dishes from this week. Using what ingredients I had in.
Balti Chicken and Mushroom Jalfraize (pre-cooked thigh with wild mushrooms)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ee930b03c971bae071191bb9776e30b6.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ee930b03c971bae071191bb9776e30b6.jpg)
Balti Meat Jalfraize (pre-cooked mutton shoulder)
(https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/45d2626090c6cce5ca5aafdf620a0a6d.jpg) (https://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#45d2626090c6cce5ca5aafdf620a0a6d.jpg)
Rob
-
I am considering trying this base as an alternative to JB`s curry base recipe.
Can this curry base be used as a standard base for any curry recipe or is it just recommended for Balti`s?
Thanks in advance
-
Can this curry base be used as a standard base for any curry recipe or is it just recommended for Balti`s?
Not only can it be used for standard BIR fare I would highly recommend it for that purpose.
-
+1. This base gravy makes great curry other than just Balti.
-
This base is excellent. I used my last frozen portion this week, with chicken tikka which went down very well with the missis again. Not the heat that I prefer, but very, very good curry. I will be making a fresh batch this weekend, using my electric pressure cooker rather than the boil for an hour method. On its own, it makes a very good, not hot curry full of flavor. Used as a base, with added spices, chillies etc, it makes a fantastic dish for me. A strong recommend.
I will also be making the balti paste our good friend Livo posted a link to somewhere on this thread. Managed to find a packet of cardamom seeds so don’t need to husk a load of the pods and very excited to try that. Yes, very excited. Curry does that.
Robbo
-
Here it is again Robbo. You won't be disappointed when you try it. :smile:
https://www.kidspot.com.au/kitchen/recipes/balti-paste-scratch/n805h9rv (https://www.kidspot.com.au/kitchen/recipes/balti-paste-scratch/n805h9rv)
-
Thanks SS and Livo, I am very much looking forward to making this now.
Going to do the base today and curry on Saturday.
I will feedback with my results :like:
-
Cheers Livo, how do you use that paste with Mick’s base? I'm thinking of adding to the initial onion fry stage early on.
Robbo
-
That's how I do it Robbo. I add a tablespoon or two once the onions (garlic & ginger if using) are done and loosen it with a little base gravy or stock to prevent catching. After cooking it briefly to coat everything I then just go about adding other ingredients and the base gravy addition - reduction process.
You like a bit of Chilli so you could add some to the paste or just bump it up during the dish cooking.
In the past I've used the paste to rescue disappointing curries. I use a small non-stick pan with a bit of oil to briefly cook the paste, add a small amount of liquid and then incorporate this into the curry. If it's lamb I give it about 15 minutes in the multi-cooker under pressure.
-
I used the last of mine in 2 delicious curries last night Robbo. 1 Chicken and 1 lamb curry. Not exactly Balti but the flavour of the paste is great anyway. I guess I'll be needing to make a new batch myself.
The lamb I pre-cooked (made it up as I was going along like a real Balti chef) but the chicken was done from raw. The base gravy is something I just made up last week (pretty good though and I used Panch Phoran). I cut a big bowl of chopped onion and green capsicum, some G&G and a selection of pastes. Balti, Rik's Madras, a Mild Curry and some Rogan Josh mixed to match the meat and a bit of Methi. I have to say it made 2 exceptional curry dishes with the lamb cooked and cooked and reduced repeatedly to a Bhuna consistency.
-
Secret Santa - I made a standard Balti last night but added a half a tsp of naga paste and must say that it was very very nice.It still retained the aromatics of the standard balti - well at least for the first three or four mouthfuls, but after that the nagas did somewhat overpower the taste. I will definitely be repeating it though. Give it a try if you found the original balti a bit bland
Regards
Mick
-
Secret Santa - I made a standard Balti last night but added a half a tsp of naga paste and must say that it was very very nice.
That won't work for me. I love naga chilli paste, as a dip for nachos. But in a curry, no thanks. In any case I'm quite happy using the base with just a teaspoon or so of mix powder and a bit of chilli powder. That's sort of baseline acceptable in the flavour department for me with this base.
I'll be trying the base again soon though using your new method.
-
I tried the MK2 version and, well, still bland I'm afraid. I was really hungry so I actually enjoyed the basic chicken balti I made but I just can't escape the blandness of this balti curry. I think if balti was the only type of curry I'd ever had I'd probably be ok with it but when I've had standard BIR fare to compare it to it just doesn't work for me. The base is still great though so no loss.
-
SS - if you use naga paste as a dipping sauce for nachos then Im not surprised you think the balti is bland!! Half a tsp of the stuff in a curry and Im sweating like a .......... :lol: :lol: Glad you like the gravy as a base though. I would imagine you would have to seriously reduce the additional powdered spices compared to jb's etc?
Regards
Mick
-
Another reference for Mick's recipes. Balti King Prawn and Balti Chicken at around 6:30.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3W7bKKeNpk&t=518s&ab_channel=bdnvlogs
I am looking forward to making another batch of the base gravy this weekend.
Rob
Reckon I have finally sorted a proper seekh kebab recipe. So there may be a fine starter (or two) to serve with the 10/10 balti(s).
-
Followed the original thread with interest when it first appeared. Made a very pleasant change to read members who do actually bother to cook and share results actually commenting on and trying this base. Was also great to hear that the OP had achieved their aim in creating exactly what they were looking for.
So when this thread appeared, again I was hooked and followed it as it developed. Given the positive comments on the base alone in both threads, from a number of serious BIR cooks, I was actually tempted to try it, as my base stocks were becoming depleted. Given the small qty produced and small time investment involved, I certainly had nothing to lose and could be pleasantly surprised by the results. I’m more than happy with “my own” base which delivers exactly what I need, but I also think it’s a good thing to try recipes where a “break through” is announced which receives positive critical acclaim from other competent BIR cooks, as this has.
On the face of it, nothing new whatsoever on any of the ingredients and spices. I did raise an eyebrow on some of the ratios though and I don’t just mean on that of the akhni stock components. Casting my mind back to the Zaal experience, remembering the volume of whole spice in that saucepan sitting on Az’s cooker, it was good to see some actual qtys / weights in the recipe. I’m not going to get hung up on measurements, other than to say it’s always helpful for those trying to replicate a recipe, that a universal and reliable UOM is used to minimise variations.
However, I do have one question, as I could not find clarity in either thread from anybody’s comments. Chopped tomatoes 250 grams??? Should I be using fresh or am I to assume we are talking tinned chopped tomatoes? As I was now desperate for base, I had to opt for the latter, given the majority of bases use these, although this was a balti base. Either way, the impact would not be catastrophic. My only other deviation, if I’d guessed wrong on the tomatoes, was the use of a whole red pepper, as no green were in store when I was shopping. Other than the aforementioned, everything else was to recipe spec.
So the base has been cooked using the two pot method and including the Kashmiri chilli powder. Ordinarily, I never put chilli powder in any base, which then gives me total control over the heat element. So when I tried the finished article, the sudden chilli tingle on the taste buds was a bit of a shock, particularly since it was Kashmiri chilli powder. Other than this, nothing particularly stood out as being much different from many other bases I have cooked over 30+ years of doing this. Yes, there was the aromatic aspect only to be expected from the inclusion of akhni stock but it didn’t seem to have had any discernable impact on the overall flavour of the base.
Now for the results of cooking with it. Like two other major contributors to the thread, I have never been anywhere near a true Birmingham balti, so I cannot really comment on how close it may be to this renowned and revered dish. In fact the nearest I’ve got to a balti was a balti phal in Cheam village and I’ve no idea why this was called a balti. I will say that the restaurant did produce quality tasty Asian food and I believe the chef was Nepalese and I just loved the balti bucket in which it was served. Given my years of eating what I class as very robustly spiced dishes, phall, vindaloo etc. I think I too may not be overwhelmed in the complexity or lack of in the accompanying recipe for the simple balti dish. I will share the results of my experiment at the end of the week when I cook the dish. At least it will provide a further opinion and may be encourage other cooks to try the base. Whatever the result, I’ve enjoyed the read and I’m sure I’ll enjoy dishes produced with the base. Thanks for posting MDB.
-
curryhell it'll be interesting to hear your feedback on MDB's balti base and the basic chicken balti ... I assume you'll be doing that first? As you've not had authentic balti I want to know if you find it bland like I did.
-
curryhell it'll be interesting to hear your feedback on MDB's balti base and the basic chicken balti ... I assume you'll be doing that first? As you've not had authentic balti I want to know if you find it bland like I did.
+1
As both Santa and I (plus Mrs L) found the balti bland, but we both found the base to be very good for other dishes, it will be very interesting to know your take on it. It's a shame that others have not bothered to try it. There are members who have actually eaten Birmingham Balti Chicken and their input would have been of value. A reduced quantity of gravy, a single chicken breast and a handful of coriander would answer many questions.
-
So how did it go curryhell?
On the tomato question, I'd say it doesn't really matter other than to mention that canned tomatoes may be more flavoursome than fresh depending on the type and quality of either. There's good and bad in both. It's the same thing when using paste / puree / passata. I just use what I have on hand and never bother too much about subtle differences. They obviously exist but I can't say I've ever been capable of saying any dish would have been better or worse from this.
-
Whatever the result, I’ve enjoyed the read and I’m sure I’ll enjoy dishes produced with the base. Thanks for posting MDB.
Morning CH
Its tinned chopped tomatoes, although It probably doesn't matter too much
Thanks for trying the base
Kind Regards
Mick
One positive about the base, it has at least woken up the sleepy cr0 crew and kick started the forum for a while
-
It will certainly be interesting to see how CH gets on, although the notion that Mick's base is similar to other base gravies makes no sense to me, unless something has gone badly wrong. Will be making another batch of the MK1 version this weekend. I think this will be batch number 10. Been using pre-cooked chicken for a few weeks. For convenience and to speed up the pan cooking. Results as before, all 10/10, with little or no further additions.
Rob
-
Sorry for the delay gents but due to a tooth issue, i had to postpone the cooking and eating of "Al Frash Balti Clone". Anyway, this is how it looked but I admit to having it with special fried rice, as I did not want to chance it on its own with chappatis, just in case the whole experiment turned out to be less than successful. A full report will follow.
-
It will certainly be interesting to see how CH gets on, although the notion that Mick's base is similar to other base gravies makes no sense to me, unless something has gone badly wrong. Will be making another batch of the MK1 version this weekend. I think this will be batch number 10. Been using pre-cooked chicken for a few weeks. For convenience and to speed up the pan cooking. Results as before, all 10/10, with little or no further additions.
Rob
Hi Rob
I do find that the MK1 version of the base gives superior results to the simplified MK11 version.
Looking forward with baited breath to Curryhell's report!
Regards
Mick
-
My bad. Reposted to MDB MKI.
Rob
-
At last the long overdue report on my results with the MDBv2 balti base, delay partly due to the long period of time that the forum has been down. Now where do I begin? When reading both threads on MDBs base, it certainly sparked a couple of questions for me and I did raise an eyebrow on one or two occasions as I digested the topics’ contents. But given the general consensus on the quality value of it as a base alone I definitely had to give it ago. One of the attractions was the simplicity of the V2 base, a definite breeze to prepare, missing out the common baghar finishing process associated with many bases. Unlike some, I do not hold with the belief that a base is simply a base and it’s all about the technique. In my opinion, if you have a reasonable level of skill when cooking BIR at home and you are using good quality fresh ingredients, you will produce a reasonable standard of dish, although sometimes you’ll consider your dishes to be better or worse than previous efforts, and be racking your brains as to what you did differently or what may have caused the change. That said I do not see how you can consistently produce a dish with the same taste when you are using different bases. Slightly different ingredient ratios and individual chef “tweaks” will result in a different tasting curries. If this wasn’t the case, there would be far more flavour consistency across the many restaurants when churning out the same dish. In my opinion, the obvious variables impacting this (assuming a reasonable level of chef competency, which some would argue may be harder to find nowadays) is the base gravy and the mix powder. I’m sure some will disagree and I look forward to the ensuing arguments. At least the discourse will be about cooking and curry Whilst I may be able to create a good tasting vindaloo which bears some resemblance in flavour to my local BIR, I will never be able to replicate it exactly, at best getting close because there is almost a mirroring of both the base and the mix powder if used.
So moving on to the curry cooked by me using the MDB base and faithfully following the recipe and instructions as closely as I could. I was pleased to hear I had made the correct choice in opting for tinned tomatoes over fresh, as this was obviously the intention of the recipe but was not obvious to me for some reason. As far as I can tell my only departure was to use a whole red pepper rather than half and half. I must confess to being very apprehensive about cooking this simple curry and then having to eat it, as it really is a far cry from the more robust curries that I have become accustomed to eating over the last 30+ years . Absolute minimal ingredients leaves the cook nowhere to hide if the curry turns out less than successful other than to blame the base, and obviously I was not going to get away with doing that with this base, even if it was not an absolute carbon copy as made by the man himself. I have read several times on the site that a good basic medium curry is the coming together of good cooking technique and a good base. From this I can only deduce, if your medium curry is poor, it’s most likely down to the cook when the base you are using is considered to be reliable by many. So this experiment could have potentially embarrassing results There was a lot of hard frying going on and at times I thought maybe I was pushing things too far. I can’t say I produced a “Birmingham balti” as I’ve never actually eaten one so I’m unable to make a comparison. Did I find the curry “bland”? Well this really does depend on one’s interpretation of “bland”. For me this would suggest lacking in flavour, having no depth or body and lacking in any appeal. Did I experience this when I worked my way through the dish? All I can say is that I had managed to produce a tasty medium curry that I would be more than happy to cook and serve to any lover of a basic curry dish and be confident that they would enjoy it. My taste in BIR has changed very little over the many years and I look for strong flavours as well as heat. Whilst this is tame by comparison to what I normally eat, I enjoyed the flavours contained in the dish, its sweetness and the moreish aftertaste. I will cook it again and see if I experience the same flavours and satisfaction as I did on this first occasion. Whilst I’m not sitting on the fence, I can’t rave over the flavours that the “Birmingham Balti” contains. Maybe one day I’ll get to try the real deal and can make a more informed judgement.
Having just polished of the other night’s vindaloo cooked with this base, I do certainly have to agree this is a quality base and most definitely will not disappoint anybody that takes the trouble to make it. My second batch is now cooling and waiting to go in the freezer.
Tonight's supper
-
Nice one Dave! I'll need to read your report a few more times before discussion starts proper. To be fair I have only made the MK I version. I was a little surprised you opted for the simpler method.
Rob
-
Hi Rob
I do find that the MK1 version of the base gives superior results to the simplified MK11 version.
The MKI version also gives better results than Misty's balti base Mick, imo. I did a side-by-side comparison a while back. Both are top notch, but the shear depth and sparkle of the MKI base/balti is just outrageous. I will give the MKII version a go at some point. I suspect invaluable for anyone who panics when confronted by three pans, whilst only having two hands. Instills confidence.
Rob
-
Nice one Dave! I'll need to read your report a few more times before discussion starts proper. To be fair I have only made the MK I version. I was a little surprised you opted for the simpler method.
Rob
Quick, easy and 1kg of onions doesn't yield too much base in case I have a bad day in the kitchen. Fortunately I didn't, and so much so I repeated the process 2 weeks later. I'll revisit the V1 thread and may be consider it when there's a bit more room in the freezer.
-
I do find that the MK1 version of the base gives superior results to the simplified MK11 version.
Yes I'd have to agree. I've only done one batch of each version but I'd definitely go back to the original three pot method next time.
-
Did I find the curry “bland”? Well this really does depend on one’s interpretation of “bland”. For me this would suggest lacking in flavour, having no depth or body and lacking in any appeal. Did I experience this when I worked my way through the dish? All I can say is that I had managed to produce a tasty medium curry that I would be more than happy to cook and serve to any lover of a basic curry dish and be confident that they would enjoy it. My taste in BIR has changed very little over the many years and I look for strong flavours as well as heat. Whilst this is tame by comparison to what I normally eat, I enjoyed the flavours contained in the dish, its sweetness and the moreish aftertaste. I will cook it again and see if I experience the same flavours and satisfaction as I did on this first occasion. Whilst I’m not sitting on the fence, I can’t rave over the flavours that the “Birmingham Balti” contains ...
Having just polished of the other night’s vindaloo cooked with this base, I do certainly have to agree this is a quality base and most definitely will not disappoint anybody that takes the trouble to make it.
You couched it in slightly different terms to me but essentialy you're still saying it's bland by the standard of normal BIR but has virtue when considered on its own merits. So I think we fully concur in reality. Definitely give the original version of the base a go next time though.
-
Did I find the curry “bland”? Well this really does depend on one’s interpretation of “bland”. For me this would suggest lacking in flavour, having no depth or body and lacking in any appeal. Did I experience this when I worked my way through the dish? All I can say is that I had managed to produce a tasty medium curry that I would be more than happy to cook and serve to any lover of a basic curry dish and be confident that they would enjoy it. My taste in BIR has changed very little over the many years and I look for strong flavours as well as heat. Whilst this is tame by comparison to what I normally eat, I enjoyed the flavours contained in the dish, its sweetness and the moreish aftertaste. I will cook it again and see if I experience the same flavours and satisfaction as I did on this first occasion. Whilst I’m not sitting on the fence, I can’t rave over the flavours that the “Birmingham Balti” contains ...
Having just polished of the other night’s vindaloo cooked with this base, I do certainly have to agree this is a quality base and most definitely will not disappoint anybody that takes the trouble to make it.
You couched it in slightly different terms to me but essentialy you're still saying it's bland by the standard of normal BIR but has virtue when considered on its own merits. So I think we fully concur in reality. Definitely give the original version of the base a go next time though.
Dave, if the base has come out even remotely resembling a typical BIR gravy (I suspect it has from your account) you won't get anywhere near the Birmingham Balti. You mentioned the ingredient ratios. This is where things start making no sense for me. How can Mick's base be similar / not unlike, for example, the Zaal gravy? I use this as a reference as it's a three-stager, and recall you rate it. Comparing the recipes it looks inconceivable they could produce any similarity whatsoever. The ratios, spices, Ackni stock prep. I don't know where to start, but 60 g cassia and 3 whole star anise in a 1 kg onion base! Upscale/downscale everything (for either) does not add up. These bases are polar opposites.
So, it looks like another botch, imo. I am sorry to have to tell you this. But there is still hope. Like you I like a hot curry. The Birmingham Balti though. Medium/Madras heat, not more. Exquisite. The Holy Grail. Mick's recipes, no futher additions. MKI version. I think MKII is there to help forum members struggling with the base, to focus on the Akhni stock, which needs to be right, no if's, not buts, it's where things are most likely to go wrong. 60 g cassia. Hard fry the powdered spices (the fun bit). You know how to do this. Burner dependent. It's 90 - 120 secs when up to speed on my hob. As Moike used to say, no baghar, no taste.
Rob
-
Forgot to add. Set the base chilli heat level with the optional MKI 2 tsp chilli powder. 1 tbsp Kashmiri powder will add a little more heat, and a lot of colour. Make the fresh G/G paste the night before. Get the powdered spices/methi mixed when the veg and A/stock are on the go. Rubbed, with your fingers. Easy, a couple of minutes.
Rob
-
I doubt that CH botched his MkII gravy. It really isn't that hard and even the MkI version is no big deal. The gravy does have aspects that are outside what you might expect from a very "normal" BIR base gravy, but essentially it is a base gravy, and it is a really good one. I've made far more complicated base gravy and Hotel Style gravies than this one.
On the subject of the basic Balti Chicken being bland, for mine, it was never the intention to imply that the dish was bad. It wasn't. I enjoyed it and I cooked it more than once. I just found that compared to the usual depth of flavour and richness that I'd come to expect from standard BIR dishes, and curry in general, it just lacked that oomph. This was very easily remedied and the resulting dishes with additional flavouring were excellent. This is why it will most likely become my go to base gravy from now on. It really works.
Now, we also have CH in this instance, who has not experienced the real deal as sold in the triangle. For myself, Santa and now CH, who have not tried an Al Frash Balti other than self-prepared, it is hard to judge if it is close to the target or not. If you say it is Rob (and Mick of course), and we aren't botching it, then I just don't think I understand the fuss about it. If I went to Birmingham and had it, would I enjoy it? I'd hope so.
Ah!! Phew. It's good to be back.
-
I doubt that CH botched his MkII gravy. It really isn't that hard and even the MkI version is no big deal. The gravy does have aspects that are outside what you might expect from a very "normal" BIR base gravy, but essentially it is a base gravy, and it is a really good one. I've made far more complicated base gravy and Hotel Style gravies than this one.
On the subject of the basic Balti Chicken being bland, for mine, it was never the intention to imply that the dish was bad. It wasn't. I enjoyed it and I cooked it more than once. I just found that compared to the usual depth of flavour and richness that I'd come to expect from standard BIR dishes, and curry in general, it just lacked that oomph. This was very easily remedied and the resulting dishes with additional flavouring were excellent. This is why it will most likely become my go to base gravy from now on. It really works.
Now, we also have CH in this instance, who has not experienced the real deal as sold in the triangle. For myself, Santa and now CH, who have not tried an Al Frash Balti other than self-prepared, it is hard to judge if it is close to the target or not. If you say it is Rob (and Mick of course), and we aren't botching it, then I just don't think I understand the fuss about it. If I went to Birmingham and had it, would I enjoy it? I'd hope so.
Ah!! Phew. It's good to be back.
.
Welcome back livo. Good post. Got me thinking. Realised I have taken my eye of the ball lately, perhaps in part due to the forum being down. I managed to botch a MKI. Didn't think about it too much at the time. Made a few of curries, still have some base to use. Not bad at all, but this batch is no use whatsoever in terms of a making a Birmingham Balti. It's light years off. Occurred to me that If this had been my first attempt at Mick's recipe, I would be describing it pretty much in line with your opinions. But this was batch number 10. I will post my thoughts on where it went wrong in the MKI thread. No surprise really, I think it was the Akhni stock, in fact I am almost certain of it.
Rob
-
Thanks KB. I for one will be interested to read about where you think you messed up on your last batch. I haven't cooked a curry in a while as I've been enjoying the fresh seafood that summer brings to us. Over the last few weeks, the Woolworths Supermarket closest to my home has been selling short-dated Crystal Bay Prawns at absolute bargain prices. They have been marked down to half-price and better which is not too much higher than I was paying for good prawns 30 years ago. Consequently, I've been gorging on them and good fish. As well as that I've been working on my smoked brisket beef and short ribs, Texas BBQ style.
However, it is about time to do another gravy and give it another bash. My family has had a long enough break away from it.
The years roll by very quickly and this year marks 4 years since I did my last bulk cook for my wife's work and her focus country of study is once again India. So, this year when I do the food preparation for Indian food day for her, I will be using this base. It will be very interesting to see how it goes in a bulk preparation. I'll need to do a few trial runs to ensure I've got it and the dishes working properly.
-
I managed to botch a MKI ... I think it was the Akhni stock, in fact I am almost certain of it.
I just don't get this. How can you mess up simmering a pot of spices in water for a given length of time?
On my first attempt I forgot to put a lid on it so I suppose that's a bit of a failure but it's still not the end of the world and that's about as far as I can think anyone could mess up this process.
You'll have to set me straight because I'm all ears.
-
Already explained Santa, although I'm not sure it would contribute that much and completely alter the gravy. KB has explained that his Star Anise and Green Cardies were a bit on the older / possibly stale side. It is something that could definitely affect the level of flavour provided within the boil / simmer process, but would it cause a batch to be considered botched? Possible I suppose. If in doubt of the quality of those spices I would have upped the quantity. If you were about to toss them anyway, why not just use heaps? He did also say that he took his eye off the ball so that could do it.
With green cardamom in particular, it is very difficult to obtain really fresh specimens over here. I see photos of really bright green pods and I can assure you they are nothing like the dull straw-coloured ones we get over here. Well, they're not that bad, but they certainly aren't the bright green of super fresh and they don't take long in the cupboard to turn to a very unappealing looking specimen. Star Anise, in my experience, is a very stable spice anyway so I would have far less concern with it. If in doubt use double or break it up into smaller pieces.
I went out and bought fresh Cassia Bark after my first batch and it made zero difference that I could tell. Are super fresh spices better? Of course they are. Will using slightly older spices radically affect the outcome in a base gravy? I'm sceptical, and as I said, just up the quantity if you're in doubt. However, that said, if you're relying on the spicing of the gravy to flavour the entire dish, as is the case here, it may well be a contributing factor.
-
Yes, will probably be able to add a bit more to the MKI discussion, or I might just get on with another batch. The results I have been getting have been so reproducible, until now. Must have gone into auto-pilot mode in the kitchen. The memories are starting to come back now though. Could be that both poor quality spices and over-reduction of the stock played a part. I will have a few pics somewhere on Amazon Photos. May help me remember. I've cut a corner somewhere. There was definitely something unusual about the stock. Why was the smell of the cassia so strong? Another thing, the last batch was no where near sweet enough. Strange, but not overly concerned. Expect it's a one off. I will start getting things in this weekend.
I used the last of the base last night to make a chicken curry. Had a couple of pre-cooked chicken thighs that had the Laziza paste treatment, mint sauce and a goodly amount of ground black pepper, a dash of lime juice. Very good curry indeed, but obviously not Mick's balti. Couldn't help thinking I may not be the only on here who had made a batch 10, or something very similar.
Was also musing last night about the first time I made Mick's base. Recall I left it on the hob to cool overnight. The next morning, whilst stumbling down the staircase, I was greeted by the most complex and delightful whiff. This is different, I thought. On opening the kitchen door it was everywhere. I took the lid off the pan. The base wasn't blended and I thought I will have a taste of that oil, right now. Grabbed a spoon and dived in. Had to sit down afterwards, my head was spinning. I noticed my hands were shaking, a bit. Collected my thoughts and an old pair of curtains I have. They come in handy for sheeting up DIY jobs around the house, including blending base gravy on the kitchen floor. All done, pan back safely on the hob. Taste test. The realisation. I need to sit down again. I had Mick's recipe printed off on the table in front of me. I cleared away the clutter with both hands and spread out the pages.
After reading though a couple of times I shuffled the pages neatly together, whilst checking they were in the correct order. By now I was now wearing a big stupid grin. Needed to take a couple of deep breaths. Nodding my head for some reason. Leaned back on my chair, still looking at the white pages. So there it is, I said out loud. Quite an emotional time I can tell you. Something must have got in my eye, as I had to wipe it away.
Rob