Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on May 01, 2010, 09:13 AM
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recent cholesterol test came up fail.
gut feeling (hope) is that it's not down to the curry (have been eating quite a lot).
think in reality it's down to getting lax on a few bad practices - omlettes, cook breakfast, them german sausage and pudding/cakes, chocolate, pizza etc.
in short i'm going to get back to my norm "moderation" on these nasties.
thinking about various why's in Axe's base got me thinking about whether a healthy base was possible. also i've used the CIAH a lot recently to match up to my re-found love of biryani. the CIAH is quite labour intensive and does not quite match up to my norm std of base (not knocking CIAH - it's cooked in ~25mins).
i set out my need to produce with minimum effort a 1 off portion that was as good as anything i normally produce but that was a healthy as it could be. out went oil, salt, marg, coconut block.
i used my std all in cooking method with the main difference being that i blended after about 10 mins then left cooking for quite a while (~ 1 hr). the base tasted very good and surprisingly not a million miles from a pukka go at base.
at the frying stage i still used 4 tbsp of oil - (and although i don't know for sure) i believe that i burn off most of this oil during the cooking - i need to use ~6 tbsp to get oil on the surface and towards 9 tbsp to achieve BIR look.
i used the bought in error jar of pataks tikka masala paste to cook the curry - along the lines of Dipuraja's balti. i now know why Dipuraja goes to the trouble of making his own tikka masala (using the various pataks) - the pataks version is just ok nothing special - certainly not as good as the balti paste (big fan).
in short pleasantly surprised. going fwd i'm going to work on Dipuraja's frying method a little as it may be possible to reduce the oil at dish frying.
finished base:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/27ae7556da3dbd14859cc4338ed5aa84.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#27ae7556da3dbd14859cc4338ed5aa84.jpg)
dish ready to fry:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f2d6f5b4fee7143805c513315e7f9953.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f2d6f5b4fee7143805c513315e7f9953.jpg)
finished biryani:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5b27fd2ceb3526beba6e79f1be28025b.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#5b27fd2ceb3526beba6e79f1be28025b.jpg)
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Hi JerryM
Sorry to hear about the cholesterol but it's only saturated fats you need to worry about so if you stick to pure veg oil, high in mono-unsaturated fats, and avoid red meat then there is no reason to cut down on the curries.
You should kick the marg and the coconut block into touch as well and instead of the greasy fry ups have a curry for breakfast, fantastic!
Regards
CoR
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recent cholesterol test came up fail.
Do you know your body mass index (bmi)?
http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/diet.html (http://www.scientificpsychic.com/fitness/diet.html)
Roughly how many BIR type meals due you consume each month, whether home made or from an actual BIR?
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but it's only saturated fats you need to worry about s
CoR,
this is what i thought too. dietary cholesterol - i thought was not as important. i'm no longer convinced. the big change in my diet over the period has been eggs (i've been having 4 at a time) - i'm sure they have been the major factor. onion & cheese sandwiches i think have probably also taken there toll.
i've also realised the need to keep an eye on the amount of calories from oil - the recommendations is <35%. i'm currently at 28% ave and finding it difficult to reduce - curry adding most to this in-balance at 80% for my normal curry and still 55% for the low fat version.
the coconut flour & block do hit u for sure - i need to find out if the block is hydrogenated. coconut in general appears to be very good and an exception to the sat fat rule.
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Do you know your body mass index (bmi)?
George,
i'd not felt a need as i'm pretty skinny down to controlling my sat fat intake - i use the pinch an 1" rule (when standing up u should not be able to pinch more than 1" around u're waste).
i'm pretty active through work but the trouble is it don't take u through that 120 beats which proper exercise does.
on the whole given everthing else was a pass ie blood pressure, i am convinced dietary cholesterol has a bigger effect than what's made out.
ps bmi @ 22
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Hi Jerry,
i'm pretty skinny
And yet your wolfing down 4 eggs at a time :D
I'd love to see the size of your full English mate ;)
Ray :)
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i'd not felt a need as i'm pretty skinny ...ps bmi @ 22
No problem there then! I'm sorry to hear about the high C reading. With all the BIR style meals you seem to consume, I'm surprised you're not massively obese. I don't know how you do it!
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George/Razor,
there is no upset on the cholesterol front - better u know than not
the eggs came from hols which did a mean double omelet with cheese and meat - i just carried on making it into a wigan kebab and having 2 of them with lots of tom sauce.
i was taken in by the low sat fat in eggs (and healthy ingredients) and reports (inc some evidence myself) that dietary cholesterol (what u get from the food itself) does not matter - believe me it does. an egg has 400mg of cholesterol - the recommended weekly intake is <1400mg.
the weight stays low by keeping an eye on the sat fat (which i've done). going fwd i just need to watch out for the dietary cholesterol too.
pushing the BIR boundary is just something that may help - clearly a healthy curry won't be BIR full stop - it might just be eatable though. i was real taken aback by how no oil and no salt in the base did not make a huge -ve in the taste.
next i plan to cook a dish without Dippies pastes to get a comaparable view c/w what i produce as a norm. i'm quite hopefull in achieving something for midweek when u can accept a little compromise.
when u think of how much "health" is in the rest of the curry ingredients it can only make sense. cutting curry consumption is not option for me.
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Jerry, and all.
This is something I'm quite conscious of myself. One of the reasons I'm enjoying cooking curry is that I'm making things to my tastes. The curry isn't floating in oil, and isn't over salted. The last time I ordered a take away, I was horrified in the quantity of oil it had, and spent ages spooning it off. In fact since I started using this site around xmas time, I haven't had a take away since. I'm scared of what my opinions will be when I do!
Rule 1 for me is less oil and hardly any salt, with the other flavours in the curry you just don't need it. It's like giving up sugar in coffee, once you're used to it, it's better.
And Jerry, I would say it's the rest of your diet that's the problem. Cut out the pizzas, fry ups etc. Pizzas are the worst food anyone can eat, as far as health is concerned. Currys aren't great in themselves, so I make sure the rest of my food intake is cereals with fruit, nuts and yoghurt in the morning, and lots of fresh stuff (vegetables from the allotment!) as much as I can. By the time you get to the curry, it's all the more worthwhile!
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Jerry, I know you have a keen eye and enjoy breaking down food in a technical way. If you haven't already checked it out, you should have a look at the technical data sheets from the Food Standards Agency for The Composition of Foods.
They consist of a full chemical analysis of food stuffs and can be quite eye opening at times. Be warned though, they are very comprehensive!
The following is a link to the page about the Cof IDS, the links to the data sheet and how to use them are at the bottom of the page.
http://www.food.gov.uk/science/dietarysurveys/dietsurveys/ (http://www.food.gov.uk/science/dietarysurveys/dietsurveys/)
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JerryM ,
With all the effort you have put into trying to find that elusive 5% I really don't think you should go without your BIR Curry :( If you cut down on the stuff you know is bad for you Chl problem could you not just have a BIR Curry at the weekend ?
My BMI is 33 :o according to the charts but we eat healthily with plenty of salads and veg through the week and save the Curry for our Saturday treat , the last time I had my
Cholesterol checked it was around 5 which I think is about average it's just that I don't exercise enough ??? If you fancy an Indian in the week why not try an Authentic Recipe creating the sauce as you go you could get to like it !
Remember , some of the longest living people come from India so it cant be all bad ;)
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i was real taken aback by how no oil and no salt in the base did not make a huge -ve in the taste.
It's been debated many times over the years as to why there is oil in the base and indeed if there is how much to use.
I still can't find a reasonable argument for it being in there unless:
1. The base requires frying at the early stages or:
2. The oil is going to be reclaimed throughout the night to fry the curries with
Other than that I can't see why it shouldn't be left out all together, which is what you seem to have found.
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i was real taken aback by how no oil and no salt in the base did not make a huge -ve in the taste.
It's been debated many times over the years as to why there is oil in the base and indeed if there is how much to use.
I still can't find a reasonable argument for it being in there unless:
1. The base requires frying at the early stages or:
2. The oil is going to be reclaimed throughout the night to fry the curries with
Other than that I can't see why it shouldn't be left out all together, which is what you seem to have found.
Good Point SS 8)
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And Jerry, I would say it's the rest of your diet that's the problem. Cut out the pizzas, fry ups etc.
Gezh,
appreciate your thoughts - for peace of mind for u all - it may help to know that i've actually got everything i eat itemised and analysed. might be classed as sad but it's more like creative accountancy where i offset the bad with the good.
what i'd failed to do was to keep it up to date not realising the small gradual changes in diet were having a big effect (eggs, sausage, fry ups & cheese).
Axe u're making me worse lol - must have a good scan through u're link - just up my street.
as Secret Santa puts it
my focus is to push the boundary of the BIR as far to the healthy boundary as i can without loosing it's identity too much. i don't see me abandoning the BIR take - just want another option for mid week.
in short i took the oil & salt out of the base and expected the result to be naff - it wasn't. in fact the base tasted very good (on par with what i normally produce) - real took me by surprise.
i now intend to work on the frying side using Dipuraja's "all in" method. it's "who knows" territory for me but i feel it's work a try.
emin-j - for sure not going to be abandoning the BIR. my regular TA is still top of the bill and weekends for cooking as u say remain sacrosanct too.
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my focus is to push the boundary of the BIR as far to the healthy boundary as i can without loosing it's identity too much. i don't see me abandoning the BIR take - just want another option for mid week.
Jerry,
Please keep us updated, I'm really interested to hear what you find :)
CM
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i was thinking of the "healthy curry" next steps whilst very much enjoying this weeks TA.
it's funny how taking a different slant begs different questions. 2 things were clear.
the plain curry sauce starter had been cooked by Dipuraja's method. oil on the surface was hardly detectable although it was clear that oil was on the inside of the aluminium container. this confirming that low oil dish frying is not out of the question in terms of delivering decent taste.
the main dish had oil on the surface and had been cooked by the hot method. on a side by side comparison of the sauce it was clear that the difference in taste is more than down to the oil alone. this got me thinking of Axe's information on adding fried garlic to the tom puree to form a paste - has anyone tried it yet. i ask as i see it potentially as low fat method of adding in extra taste to compensate for a reduction in oil overall.
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Wondered if this site would interest you Jerry
http://www.tinydeol.com/ (http://www.tinydeol.com/)
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Stephen,
appreciate the thought and the site is encouraging that the goal maybe achievable for the option of decent but healthy curry.
my makeup is that i love the enjoyment of producing good food for yourself. it broke my heart recently to follow Dippies lead and buy the pataks stuff.
the healthy curry to be honest is not that important to me - moderation i've found works well and i'm happy to balance the curry without sacrifice with rest of my diet. saying that if i can eat more curry without detriment to health then why not.
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i made the 2nd batch of Healthy base last night (no oil, no salt). it was a disaster. as soon as it started cooking i could tell the smell was wrong.
it reiterates just how fine the line of failure is.
i felt i'd stuck to the batch 1 recipe but obviously hadn't. i had upped the batch size to enable base for 3 off curries.
back to the drawing board. i will cook with it just to be sure but i'm making a new batch tonight as there needs to be consistency in the approach.
what is clear is the small batch size brings about the use of very small amounts of spice which makes measurement difficult and far more critical in terms of getting the balance right.
the only good thing is that i can use the naff 3 off base portions to try out the cooking stage without worry of chucking it down the sink.
ps these asian bay are quite strong and i think part of what caused the poor result. i also blended before putting on the heat and forgot to leave the lid off. so it's important to retrace my steps to work out what went so badly wrong.
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At the weekend, I found a recipe in a low fat cookbook for a chicken korma which starts off by dry frying onions in a non stick frying pan. I tried this approach by dry frying onions for a cottage pie. I used an old (now) semi-stick frying pan because I didn't want to risk damaging a newer non-stick pan. It didn't work well. The onions started sticking so I transferred them to the oven to dry roast. They looked OK after roasting but the taste of the cottage pie, with minced meat, was quite different to normal, so it doesn't bode well for any other use of onions, as in a curry.
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Jerry, perhaps it might be better to consider more traditional dishes from scratch, rather than trying to create a healthy BIR curry. The wife came home last week with a Low Fat Fat Free recipe book . It had in it a recipe for Fragrant Chicken Curry. Of course this caught my eye so we tried it last night.
The recipe was described "In this dish, the mildly spiced sauce is thickened using lentils rather than the traditional onions fried in ghee".
I spotted an error in weights and measures of the recipe which made me nervous, but nonetheless we tried it and it was very easy to make. Simply added .5 cup of lentils to a pan with 2 tbls of mild curry powder, 1 tsp or corriander, 1 tsp cumin seeds and 2 cups veg stock. Simmered for 10 mins added 8 skinless chicken thighs and 8oz shredded spinach and simmered for 40 mins.
I was quite surprised with the dish, it wasn't bad at all. I will replace the veg stock with chicken stock next time round and may add some fenugreek. But overall, we had clean plates all round. Different, but quite nice and definitely out of the box. The best part was that the on its own a single portion was only 152 Kcals, I served it with coconut rice and giant crisps. :)
On the balance of spicing, could you make a larger quantity of masala and then just take from that overall like you would a spice mix?
Dry fried onions or roasted in the oven I have tried and without oil, they always taste boiled with charred edges. I think the key to fry onion without oil is to do it on a low heat. The problem is when the sugars start to caramelise the onions will stick to the pan.
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The only bad things in a BIR is the oil/salt. I've found that using malvern salt greatly reduces the need for large quantities and has cut my salting down by a half to three-quarters. ;D Curries are healthy (bar the oil lol) it's the sides and nans that are the killers.
Have you tried the spray on oil, Jerry? Using it to fry onions as Axe says at a lower temp for longer doesn't have any negative effects on the overall flavour. Though to be honest the from scratch method is better for healthier curries without losing flavour IMO. :)
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I usually aim for half a teaspoon (about 3 grams) of salt for a 2 person curry.
I think eating 1.5 grams of salt is ok for a meal containing probably about 800 calories.
Better than a tin of chicken soup with 2.2 grams of salt only giving you about 280 calories!
paul.
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Everything in moderation and EXERCISE (you fat g*ts! ;)) :P
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Hi Guys and Gals
Im fortunate that as Im currently living in Turkey Olive oil is rediculously cheap.
I make my IfindForu favourite base entirely with regular Olive oil ( NOT virgin olive oil as it tends to carry more flavours ) and this base recipe calls for a lot of oil.
In addition I start all my curries with the same Olive oil and plenty of it as its a healthy option.
I can honestly say I cant taste any real difference, as Ive tried the same base using sunflower oil and the same main dishes with sunflower oil too.
A very healthy alternative
Both my CTM and Vindaloo are miles better than most takeaways and mine involve Olive Oil and lots of it, well in the Base and the Vindaloo anyway
Try it, probably in UK I would suggest you buy the cheapest Olive oil from Tescos or Aldi as it will have the least flavour, but remember to read the label, NOT virgin :D
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appreciate the various thoughts on alternative strategies - the thing is that on the 1st go i felt there was mileage in a subject that i'd discounted. i still remain hopeful.
i cooked 4 off curries with the naff base using Dipuraja's method & spice mix and my ?1.5 splash guard. they are still work in progress but salt was 0.25 tsp and oil was 1 tbsp (olive).
the naff base was down to too much ginger and asian bay.
i'm aiming to have another go tonight.
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i've tried Axe's idea of fried garlic in tom puree. so far not got it to work. i've used 10g fried garlic in 140g puree.
going to add more garlic today to see if i can get improvement. i see it as a real good way of adding back what's been taken out in the healthy curry.
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i've tried Axe's idea of fried garlic in tom puree. so far not got it to work. i've used 10g fried garlic in 140g puree.
going to add more garlic today to see if i can get improvement. i see it as a real good way of adding back what's been taken out in the healthy curry.
JerryM , What would be the purpose of adding Galic to Tom / Puree when you can add as much Garlic as you like to the main Curry :-\
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emin-j,
it's even worse - the time and fiddlyness of making is a real nightmare. i use the sliced fried garlic often and it works/transforms the dish into a real treat for me (my fav TA dish garlic chicken has it). i also think my fav sylheti must somehow have it too.
i was hoping that the taste u get in each individual slice would blend in across the curry.
still work in progress. it could be u just need to blend it and forget about the tom puree which is just probably just down cutting down on the effort of adding. u would also not want to use it in all dishes.
the thinking was just a slight hint might makeup in the HC what is lost through not hot frying.
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Jerry, rather than frying sliced garlic and adding it, have you thought about roasting a whole bulb? If you roast it in the skin it helps to stop it scorching and the resultant almost pulp like garlic, just needs squeezing out. It has all the flavour with any bitterness you might get from over cooked garlic.
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Axe,
it's a case of cake and eat it. in adopting the HC i'd like to get it as close as poss to what i produce by the hot fry method. it's not crucial as i see me cooking both to suit the occasion.
i have roasted garlic in non curry and it does as u say produce a very nice result (slow cooking does same - have added to rice in the past as it cooks).
the thought of blending the v.hot fried garlic in very little oil (1 tsp) came from the viewing the recent TA from the HC point of view - the starter curry sauce was "cold" cooked ie Dippies method where it was clear the main was hot fried. i use the slithers a lot by adding just at the end of cooking and if that's what u like they work a treat.
i have upped the proportion to 20g in 140g puree and can now get a strong taste through the puree. the only thing is that i think it needs to be even more potent as the 1 tbsp of puree is still lost in the overall taste of the curry. still work in progress.
20g fried slithers
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/4fee658ddf260b095644e271e08f874c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#4fee658ddf260b095644e271e08f874c.jpg)
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i've made a 3rd batch of the healthy curry base (no salt, no oil) and managed to get this one in balance. the base still came across as a sort of raw onion taste.
i made 3 off curries this time using small amounts 1 tbsp of pataks pastes (2 off using the patak tikka massala and 1 off using the balti paste). i was almost for chucking them as they were still below par - down to the base not being good enough. i have though binned the patak tikka massala jar (the one bought in error) as it's well poor in comparison to the balti paste. i made Dippies biryani to go with the curry and it worked out better than i'd expected - not brill but u certainly weren't forcing yourself to eat it.
i'm beginning to think salt is needed in the base to somehow cook out the onion. i also need to add in some carrot to eliminate it as a possibility. it could also be that i just need to cook for longer (currently blended then 1 hr).
i've also reduced the oil in the curry down from 1 tbsp to 2 tsp without any detriment.
it's very stark that u can't eliminate the salt from the final dish ~ 0.25 tsp is essential.
the cooking method is to use a deep sauce pan and the splash guard, add ingredients and stir to mix, hob on full, bring to boil, cook for 5 mins stirring say 3 times. the pan needs to be old as it needs cleaning with steel wool at the end of cooking.
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Hi
JerryM,I find it better to adopt a Chinese style on reduced oil cooking.Start with 15ml of oil,then add a splash of hot water to "keep things frying". Only down side is that you need to be at the stove all the time.
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I find it better to adopt a Chinese style on reduced oil cooking
commis,
appreciate the thoughts - i'm aiming to keep the blinkers completely off and need to keep this Chinese style option in mind. i'm aiming to get as close as poss to the hot fry/oil method. i'm going to up the ante on the all in method today by including onion - this should give me a clear steer on how to proceed. the deep pan is working pretty good so far with the base being the naff part of the total equation.
I'll also know on the need for salt & carrot inclusion in the base.
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Jerry, forgive me but that garlic looks well and truly cooked past its best. Burnt garlic tastes extremely bitter, do you actually prefer it this way? If it's of any help, the garlic I could see in the IG Puree was not cooked to this extreme. I wonder if this is why you are finding it hard to get the flavour into the puree to.
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Jerry, Axe
I find that if you take a full bulb of garlic, give it a good glug of olive, then roast at say, 200c or gas mark 6 for about 40 mins. You should be able to just take a clove off the bulb and squeeze out the garlic. It will be like a puree and it becomes very sweet.
Ray :)
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Hi Razor
I do that all the time. As well as becoming sweeter it is also less pungent so if a recipe calls for two cloves of garlic I would add four of roasted garlic.
Mike
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Hi Mike,
Yeah, that's true, it does become less pungent.
Good tip,
Ray :)
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Ray, I think you missed my earlier post. ;) :P
Mike I believe it's the Kernel in the Garlic Clove that gives of that really pungent taste. I sometimes remove this if I am not cooking the garlic to hard.
One thing is for sure, Roasted Garlic is quite tasty.
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Hi Axe,
Yes just gone back through the thread and spotted it. Great minds and all that ;)
To be honest, I really haven't been following the thread that closely as when I see the word 'healthy', something in my mind translates it to 'Tasteless' no offence Jerry :)
I just had to pass on the garlic tip after seeing Jerry's nuked ones ;D
Ray :)
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Axe/Razor,
i totally agree now - the fried is not for going into the puree. i gave it a real go but it don't work. ps just try the fried like u see in the pic but add it late on - my TA actually add cold just before putting the cardboard lid on.
having no success with the fried garlic i thought i may as well put to bed another item i had at the back of my mind - ratio of garlic ginger. i normally use 60:40 and changed to 30:70. it don't work any better either in fact i found it much worse - it made the the dishes hotter, not chilli hot but ginger hot.
i'm going to have to try the roasting idea for the garlic.
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Ray, it's all good. :)
Jerry, I think the roasted garlic would do really well, but it really does depend on what taste you prefer from the garlic. I like the sweeter roasted flavour but it doesn't suit for everything, somtimes you need that bitter after bite.
30:70 in favour of Ginger is quite a swing, personally I don;t think I would go past 50:50. Perhaps 70:30 in favour of Garlic might be better suited?
I haven't as yet tried experimenting with it but I have often wondered if I omitted the ginger, whether I really would notice it.
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Axe,
I often leave out ginger and to be honest, it's perfectly fine. I'm with you on garlic to ginger ratio. I tend to favour heavier on the garlic side.
Ray :)
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Axe,
i picked the high swing to make sure i got a hit one way or the other. i won't be trying ginger in high proportion again. i have used just garlic for quite a while (parker21 got me onto it). having wrestled with g/g or just plain garlic i settled on the g/g following the ashoka recipe. i think the ginger in small proportion adds that tad more towards BIR.
i will try the roasted garlic. ps the fried is not bitter - very moorish.
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i'm now sorted on the frying technique (exactly as i posted earlier). the splash guard for ?1.50 is a real find (not the waste of money having tried it to cook naan) - it works a treat for fast "frying" the healthy curry.
the following 4 off curries give u a feel for the output. they were made to go with Dipuraja's biryani using lasan tikka. one of the dishes is Secret Santa's chilli sauce plain curry the other 3 are Dipuraja's Balti (they were made to order so slight differences).
one i have noticed is that the cream coconut block does not work in this healthy curry - a flavour comes through which i don't normally get - best i can describe is an hydrogenated taste if there is such a thing.
going fwd i feel i need to work on the base - i still think there is some mileage but taking the oil out is wrecking the onion cooking. the salt is a defo must - the onion don't cook out at all otherwise (add 0.25 tsp per portion of curry).
just to be clear on this - this healthy curry is for week nights only - it don't replace the hot fried real McCoy - it gets close but it's easy to pick out the fake but the gap ain't huge and if it's the difference between eating more or less curry then it's a no brainer - currently 2 tsp oil and 0.5 tsp salt per portion.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/4dbfd50170d020f6af12825212e229ef.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#4dbfd50170d020f6af12825212e229ef.jpg)
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Jerry,
You've really worked hard on this mate, and I'm glad that you seem to be seeing your efforts come good.
I was wondering, I have never used it personally, but do you think Asafoetida may have a part to play in this healthy style. I believe that it has an oniony taste? and that fact that your using very little oil, you would need something to enhance them I guess. What do you think?
Ray :)
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Razor,
this i am 100% sure on - a big No. i've had to eat humble pie on methi which is now at the back of my mind in all i do - several have pointed out how close u can get but still miss out - so it's hard to be totally definitive.
i have tried asafoetida - it took me well of the BIR path. i bought the hard black block which u have to grate. it really does produce a flavour and i think u either love it or hate it. i hate it and threw it out.
what i'm i guess searching for now is a general observation from my regular TA. they seem to produce an after sensation that u've eaten garlic (i don't know if it is garlic related). not the smell on u're breath but more a sensation in u're breath. i was not sure if this was down to a lot more ginger - hence the recent test. i now know it's not that. even when i've used masses of raw fine chopped garlic at dish frying i can't replicate this sensation from the TA. i'm now hopeful that it may well be down to the roasted garlic - hence my interest. whatever it is - seems to add a richness to the TA dish which i don't feel i've got.
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Jerry, just an idea but it might be worth testing to see if a roasted onion can give you the required flavour as well. Again, leave the skin on.
As for the fried Garlic, I have burnt garlic in the past and hated both the smell and the taste, I guess it's like Marmite in that respect maybe.
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Jerry,
That's fair enough mate, if you've tried it and ruled it out, then it's not worth going down that path again.
Axe,
I like the roasted onion idea. Would you do it the same as garlic, give it a good glug of oil, or just roast it as it is?
Ray :)
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I think it would be a case of trial an error but I would lean towards whole onion with skin on and gently roast for an hour, depending on the size. Given that the idea is to try and avoid oil to make a healthier meal. It might also be worth trying Red Onion as well.
Perhaps a compromise would be to half the onion, skin on, and place on a lightly oiled tray, before roasting.
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Yeah, I know what your saying with regards to the oil, but, against all the rules, I think this is a case of, add it, then take it away bit by bit. You roast any veg without oil, and they soon become very dry once the water content has evaporated.
It's funny tough, when you mentioned it, it reminded me of when I was a kid. Mi mam used to put a whole onion in the pot of tater hash and then take it out at the end, coz I couldn't stand onion, lol
And I remember me dad, mashin it up with red cabbage and scoffin it down haha
Ray :)
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Ah yes, dry roasted veg is not the best result. That's the idea behind keeping the onion whole and in it's skin, to stop it drying out before being cooked. If it can't be done with a suffiecient reduction of oil, I would probably just sacrifice this and fry the onions in as little oil as possible.
I did see a recipe call to slice just a small amount from the end of an onion, cut a cross into it like a sprout and then put a few drops of oil on the top, before roasting in an oven. Perhaps this might produce a better result? It's trial and error I guess, but worth a go I think.
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Axe/Razor,
much appreciate u're thoughts - i feel it's on the right lines for what i need. the cooking of the onion is v.important in the base and if u take the oil out it don't work well - u can tell at blending - no matter what u do it sort of stays lumpy and this remains in the finished cooked dish. a key difference in spotting the fake.
my initial thought had been to return to my norm method but just take out the oil - in the HC curry i've been blending straight away.
the idea of roasting the garlic is something i defo need to try as i feel i'm missing a taste (have been for a while) and this could be it. doing the same with whole onion to then start the base is potentially a real break through on the HC front.
the roasting also puts my mind to rest on the effort needed by the BIR in removing the skin from the garlic - which is easy peasy once roasted.
blending onion then boiling does not seem to break the onion down no matter how long u cook it.
ps i am sure this extra garlic or taste is introduced at dish frying ie not in the base although i have found x2 garlic is better in the base
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It seems that anything 'processed' isn't very good for you, pushing up your risk of a heart attack or diabetes by figures like 42%:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1279203/A-bacon-sandwich-day-puts-heart-disease-half.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1279203/A-bacon-sandwich-day-puts-heart-disease-half.html)
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I think it is important to recognise that the article refers to processed meats inparticularly the process of. Mentioning the salt and preservatives that are used to cure the meat. The emphasis being on the effects of salt on blood pressure. Which is particularly pertinent to this topic, as is the final statement: "The British Heart Foundation said that meat could still be part of a healthy diet by using healthier cooking methods such as grilling." This is one reason I precook all my chicken in the oven and not fried and stewed.
Jerry, in the past when following recipes for Korma, they often said blend onion and then fry and cook it out. I never found it worked and you end up with that awful boiled onion taste. I don't know if the roasted onion will give the right results but it is definitely worth trying. The more I think about it, the more I prefer the idea of a greased tray and halving the onion to roast. This way you will get a caramelisation on the cut surface.
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Might be worth wrapping each onion in lightly oiled tin foil then roasting, roast onion and garlic taste great, can't see BIRs bothering though due to the amount they would have to do but certainly worth trying at home. Paste made from roast onion is a lot easier to do than 'caramelised' paste though.
Cheers
CoR.
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Theres a couple of things you havn't tried that ive noticed on the onion part.
Shallots, sweeter than normal onions but smaller so cook faster and with less oil therefore.
Caramalised onions, take ages to cook but produce an intense sweet onion flavour, that also takes a lot less oil to cook, compared to the usual curry method.
Frozen pre chopped onions from iceland/morrisons seem to fry faster than fresh.
Or and i dont like to say it but, you could always opt for, its hard to say this, smaller portions.
lol.
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some real good thoughts which i will try out if needed - i'd already booked space in my good ladies oven today. the onion 400g gross should produce a 3 off portion base. the oven is going to be at 140C and for upto 2 hrs.
this onion cooking thing is something i've come across before when making bunjarra - if u blend 1st the onion seems to take a lot longer to cook out than blending at the end (hence perhaps reason behind the standard method of cook then blend).
it may also be that just adding back a very small amount of oil (~1 tsp per portion) may also do the trick.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/4e13a160c869ac115d6e4d1875f5269c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#4e13a160c869ac115d6e4d1875f5269c.jpg)
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the onion & garlic roast is not for me. i left them in for 2hrs and they were overdone. i think the method is pretty hit and miss down to the size of veg used and it's difficult to weigh up when they are cooked enough. there is also a lot of wastage (particularly onion). u can't tell if any of it is bad either. i ended up binning the onion as the smell put me off. i've added the garlic to tom puree to taste again after 24hrs.
on the onion i'm going back to my std method of cooking base (ie not blend straight away as this don't work). i'll leave out the oil on the 1st go and then gradually add it back if needed.
on the garlic it would be easier to either microwave or par boil.
trouble is having tasted the roasted garlic i can't say it's the taste i'm after either - i need to leave it in the tom puree though to be sure. the par boil may be the answer. in the past i've added the pre fried slices early in the dish frying which causes it to blend into the sauce - i need to revisit this too.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/96deb58e6dd3dba5127146783006da36.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#96deb58e6dd3dba5127146783006da36.jpg)
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What a shame. The garlic looks over done, I would imagine an hour would be long enough. Looking at the onion, I wonder if perhaps they may work better if quartered.
For all the messing about, I think your right, frying would appear to be the only real way forward.
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lucky Jerry but, more power to your elbow for giving it a go.
Ray :)
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Axe/Razor,
i am well pleased i gave it a go (closing doors is just as important as opening them). as Axe said i think 1 hr would be enough.
i'm going to retract my steps as i though the 1st base i made was pretty good. it was only when i jumped to blending straight away that the naff base occurred.
i've got the garlic/tom puree in the fridge and aiming to use friday.
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i'm now sorted on the healthy curry front. it produces a "fake". how useful it is depends on u're own circumstance.
for base i am following my std "all in" method but leaving the oil out and reducing the salt to 0.25 tsp per 4 off 300ml finished base portions (or 0.25tsp per 400g onion). i only cooked for 1 hr lid on prior to blending (c/w normal 2hrs as the extra hr makes no difference without the oil) and 1 hr lid off after blending.
u can follow using u're own preferred base and just apply the above principle.
for cooking follow Dipuraja's method but use 2 tsp oil (i've used olive) and 0.25 tsp salt per 200ml finished portion (ie 300ml base). i also add 100ml of water (making 400ml liquid in total). i've used a deep pan and splash guard (really impressive) to cook. mix the ingredients, bring to boil, stir, cook on full for 5 mins stirring now and then (typ~3 times just tilting the splash guard to get the spoon in). i've used my 3kw gas hob. turn heat off 15 secs before end of timer to allow dish to settle for pouring.
i made my top 4 off dishes for the family to get a rating on how close "fake" is. my lad knew i'd been messing about on the HC front but did not realise this was what they were. he did point out what my wife and myself were thinking - they are v.good but well below the BIR par we aim for.
for me they serve as a way above par weekday meal that is far healthier than most offerings . they are not for weekends though.
1200ml 4 portion of base
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/44b85ae403f8842481190440cfd98583.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#44b85ae403f8842481190440cfd98583.jpg)
dish cooking
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/7d8f74f89918a6f22f146e0fbee32f59.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#7d8f74f89918a6f22f146e0fbee32f59.jpg)
clockwise from top left 976bar kashmiri, bitchinsahsa butter chicken, my sylheti, Dipuraja's Balti (all are microwave reheated when needed and fresh tikka added on serving. all served with several batches of Dipuraja's Biryani rice)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/681866ddd6c8601f9fa713db7981887c.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#681866ddd6c8601f9fa713db7981887c.jpg)
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Jerry, have you tried cooking a weekend curry with the healthy base?
If it is at all possible can you describe how the base differs to your usual base, or what is lacking in the finished dishes?
I am very interested to carry this further.
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Axe,
haven't tried what u say. in fact have no plans. the weekend curry needs every piece of the jigsaw and the small amount of oil i leave un reclaimed is not an issue (100ml in 800g onion 8 portion or 100ml in 1000g onion 10 portion is about the range). i have in the past tried varying the amount of oil in a base - too much or too little spoils the base.
not easy to describe - the key difference is in the onion - it's not as smooth for sure. when u pull a spoon across a small amount on a plate the particles are less blended. i guess the best comparison is that it's more like a soup. the moorish taste does not develop as much either. it's not a million miles away though.
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Actually it looks pretty good.