Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: George on April 25, 2010, 10:08 PM
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On another thread, I suggested that Dipuraja should be given an OBE for his efforts. As an aside, though, his written recipes bear little relationship to the quantities you can see him using, most of the time. At a guess, when he says 1 tablespoon, I reckon he means 1 HEAPED tablespoon. There's a massive difference. In between there's a ROUNDED tablespoon.
If members here are as far out with their written recipes, it's small wonder that the results may not turn out as expected if anyone else makes the dish and sticks to conventional measurements, e.g. where 1 tbls is always 15ml. A rounded tablespoon might be 20ml and a heaped tbls is anyone's guess at perhaps 30ml.
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Im a stickler for this too so if i type a recipe i use measuring spoons leveled.
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George,
It's a fair comment and a problem that needs rectifying. As a suggestion, and this won't help with Dip's recipes, but maybe the forum could generate an automatic message to new members, giving them advice/rules on posting threads.
I dunno, for example:
All measurments should be clear and precise 1tbs = 15ml, 1 rounded tbs = 20ml, 1 heaped tbs = 25 ml and so on...
It doesn't have to be as anal as that but dya know what I mean, just some kind of guide for new and old members.
It could also include tips on essential equipment required, such as, long handled chefs spoon, blender or hand blender, measuring spoons, and so on....
What dya think?
Ray :)
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George,
It's a fair comment and a problem that needs rectifying. As a suggestion, and this won't help with Dip's recipes, but maybe the forum could generate an automatic message to new members, giving them advice/rules on posting threads.
Good idea. It certainly needs a bit more QA or something. I even thought of putting myself forward as a proof reader for any new recipes, which would have to be pre-moderated, by me (say) before they are posted. This could weed out inconsistencies and apparent anomalies like those I recently found in a Cooking Academy recipe for saag aloo. They are professionals, so if their recipes are found lacking, what hope is there for us? But, without seeing the dish made, there's no way anyone could pick up differences like those I can see in Dipuraja's kitchen.
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When I do get around to making Dipuraja's stuff, and I'll have to some time soon to see what all the fuss is about, I'll be taking my measurements from the video and will ignore the written stuff!
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When I do get around to making Dipuraja's stuff, and I'll have to some time soon to see what all the fuss is about, I'll be taking my measurements from the video and will ignore the written stuff!
My thinking, too. I'm not criticising him though. I'm so grateful to him.
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Too me a tablespoon would equate to one rounded spoonful and not a spoonful that is levelled of with a knife for instance. This applies to any spoon measure.
The idea is sound in principle as long as everyone knows what a spoonful is, for example the English measurement for a Tablespoon is 18ml.
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Too me a tablespoon would equate to one rounded spoonful and not a spoonful that is levelled of with a knife for instance. This applies to any spoon measure.
The idea is sound in principle as long as everyone knows what a spoonful is, for example the English measurement for a Tablespoon is 18ml.
Ah, your comments above confirm how everybody is on a different wavelength, with different understandings.
My understandng is that English convention for "1 tbls' is 1 level tablespoon, equals 15ml. Yes, scraped level with a knife.
Not 18ml and not rounded.
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The 15ml Tablespoon is the US measurement for a tablespoon which is 1/2oz. The BBC have a site for measurement translations: http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/converter_index.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/converter_index.shtml)
I would imagine that the majority of BIR's all cook on 'sight' rather than exact measurement. Take a chef spoon and try and pick up a tablespoon of powder and you'll do it on sight alone 'that looks about right'.
As long as we're in the ball park I wouldn't expect too much deviation to the finished recipe. However, that said, it depends on the translation of the original recipe. Though I do accept that some recipes could be effected more than others.
When I watched DPR make his base, he says add one tablespoon of mix powder but you can clearly see that the amount of powder on his spoon is more than heaped and probably equates to about 2 tablespoons.
I cook using teaspoons and tablespoons literally. As my translation goes visually, take a spoonful of sugar or salt and that is my spooned measure.
This topic has made wonder about what quantities I am actually using, so i'm going to measure this tonight when I get home.
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Axe,
Are you sure,
1 tsp = 5ml
1 dsp = 10 ml
1 tbs = 15ml
That's what my measuring spoons say, you are supposed to level them off!
I think in Australia, and CA can correct me if I'm wrong, 1 tbs = 20ml
Ray :)
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Axe,
Are you sure,
1 tsp = 5ml
1 dsp = 10 ml
1 tbs = 15ml
Your measurements are correct and anyone who says different is wrong!
I just looked through several cookbooks and they all confirm the mesures you've given above.
If Axe or anyone else has books suggesting anything else, who wrote them, and when?
Back to my original point - it throws most/many recipes on this site up into the air, as we really don't have a clue how much to use of each ingredient, to recreate what the originator intended.
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Axe,
Just been scouring the net, I think you could be correct.
1 UK tbsp = 17.7ml
1 US tbsp = 14.2ml
Well I never...... :o
Ray :)
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Ray,
Most measuring spoons seem to show this these days but if you check out the BBC link I put up, i'm not the only one that believes this. It's probably US influences and EU directives that have driven this out.
When ever I have used measuring spoons in the past, I have always levelled off. But I can't honestly remember the last time I used measuring spoons. I'll have to see if I can find them to see what measurements are on them.
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Ive just checked my measuring spoons, they have the volumes written on them.
0.5tsp=2.5ml
1tsp=5ml
1tbsp=15ml.
ive lost the dessert spoon lol
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Axe,
Just been scouring the net, I think you could be correct.
1 UK tbsp = 17.7ml
1 US tbsp = 14.2ml
Well I never...... :o
Well I never, indeed. I stand to be corrected. Perhaps there's simply no agreement, no convention or anything.
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I thought id go and find out what the Guru of English cookery thought so went to Delia Smiths site..........
"I'm afraid I can't accept the official version of spoons exemplified by sets of (usually) plastic spoons hanging on a metal ring because, one, they vary and, two, I think they're a bit on the mean side. I much prefer to use real tablespoons, dessertspoons and teaspoons. A point to remember is that two teaspoons equates to one dessertspoon, and two dessertspoons to one tablespoon"
Feckin useless lol
And this
http://www.eclecticcooking.com/metric.htm (http://www.eclecticcooking.com/metric.htm)
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George, two schools of thought:
1. Perhaps the answer is to remove the problem from the equation. My spoon is 18ml your is 15ml, so why not list in the recipe these quantities instead. So if I add 2 tablespoons of spice mix, I would write 36ml whereas you would write 30ml.
2. Does it really matter just so long as I keep the ratio of spices the same. Like when making a spice mix, if the ratio 2,1.5, 1, 1, 1 it doesn't matter what size spoon I use as long as I use the same spoon.
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George, two schools of thought:
1. Perhaps the answer is to remove the problem from the equation. My spoon is 18ml your is 15ml, so why not list in the recipe these quantities instead. So if I add 2 tablespoons of spice mix, I would write 36ml whereas you would write 30ml.
2. Does it really matter just so long as I keep the ratio of spices the same. Like when making a spice mix, if the ratio 2,1.5, 1, 1, 1 it doesn't matter what size spoon I use as long as I use the same spoon.
Yes, perhaps the best approach is to ensure the basis of mesurement is stated in all recipes posted here, like at the front of many/most cook books. I haven't actually measured my old tablespoons. They may well be 18ml. I only use measuring spoons marked "1 tbls, 15ml" these days. Perhaps it was a simplification/rounding when metric measures arrived in the UK many years ago.
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I think there is a standard of sorts, irrespective of the variations mentioned previously.
In the UK, as already stated 1tsp=5ml, 2tsp=1dstsp=10ml and 3tsp=1TBSP=15ml.
This is (unless someone proves otherwise) the 'standard' because this is how those measuring spoons you buy are graduated.
So has anyone bought a 14.2, 17.7 or 18 ml measuring spoon recently?
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George, two schools of thought:
2. Does it really matter just so long as I keep the ratio of spices the same. Like when making a spice mix, if the ratio 2,1.5, 1, 1, 1 it doesn't matter what size spoon I use as long as I use the same spoon.
That's certainly the way I approach it Axe, doing things by ratio wherever possible. But at some point you're going to have to take a tsp or TBSP of that mix so you're back to the original problem.
This debate has raged continually since the start of this forum and I still believe we should stick with the 'standard' metric measures of 1tsp=5ml, 1DSP=10ml and 1TBSP=15ml.
There really shouldn't be any room for debate after six years of this forum. This should be made an edict in the FAQ!
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This degree of precision is really a bit of a moot point anyway, since we are using volume measures to approximate the mass of solids!
The actual mass, in a given volume, can vary with all manner of things (packing density, particle size, moisture content, etc) and, for spices, the resultant intensity of flavour varies more significantly with their freshness!
We need to get real (and practical) about the degree of precision required. It is obviously far more significant to be clear if we are talking about a level or a heaped spoon that is being specified in a recipe. I reckon specifying any further degree of precision is pointless.
I use 1 level tsp = 15ml, 1 level dsp = 10ml and 1 level tbsp = 15ml
As far as I'm aware this is the case in NZ, Canada, USA and UK
Ray is correct, a tbsp in Oz is 20ml
If you want to get precise about solids, use grams!
Personally, I'm far more concerned about being clear about what a recipe means when it refers to "coconut powder", "tomato puree", etc ::)
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There really shouldn't be any room for debate after six years of this forum. This should be made an edict in the FAQ!
Go tell Dipuraja (or any other restaurant chef) that! Are you seriously going to reject their recipes because they don't conform to your "edict"? ::)
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Go tell Dipuraja (or any other restaurant chef) that! Are you seriously going to reject their recipes because they don't conform to your "edict"? ::)
Firstly I wasn't aware that any restaurant chefs were active posting members of this forum CA?
Secondly I would hope that anyone who posts these chefs recipes for them has enough intelligence to be able to put their recipes into whatever format the forum requires.
Thirdly it's hardly my edict CA. Those measures are, as I've already explained, a standard by virtue of the fact that all measuring spoons available in the UK (this being a UK forum) are 5ml, 10ml, 15ml etc.
And last, but by no means least, stop trying to win points, it just makes you sound obtuse. ;) ;D
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This degree of precision is really a bit of a moot point anyway, since we are using volume measures to approximate the mass of solids!
No we're not!
No one is saying "well, I need 1 gram of cumin for this recipe and that's about 5ml as an approximation".
The volume measures stand on their own, the mass is (within reason) irrelevant.
The only moot thing is your point above.
If you want to get precise about solids, use grams!
Unfortunately, not true either, as you yourself point out this will vary with moisture content.
For all practical purposes level metric tsp and TBSP measures are more than adequate for all our curry cooking needs.
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Firstly I wasn't aware that any restaurant chefs were active posting members of this forum CA?
Unfortunately SS, in your narrow view of the world, you're seldom aware of much that's really of relevance. There are loads of reports of recipes allegedly from restaurant chefs here that don't, and never will, conform to your "edict". Are you proposing to dismiss them all then? ::)
Secondly I would hope that anyone who posts these chefs recipes for them has enough intelligence to be able to put their recipes into whatever format the forum requires
Unfortunately SS, some members don't, and probably never will, post any recipes of ANY description hey? All they'll ever do is moan about, and belittle, those that do.....that's highly intelligent, I agree ::),
Thirdly it's hardly my edict CA
You're saying it should be the edict SS ::)
Those measures are, as I've already explained
Yes, you're so good at and busy explaining ain't ya.... ::)
all measuring spoons available in the UK (this being a UK forum) are 5ml, 10ml, 15ml etc
Oh, and I bet not a single one exists in the UK that isn't ::)
And last, but by no means least, stop trying to win points, it just makes you sound obtuse. ;) ;D
Or a complete and utter negative w*nker perhaps SS? ;)
The point is SS, the degree of precision you're so busy sweating over is largely irrelevant in the overall scale of things...in my opinion :P
Plus, don't you think that for someone who has hardly ever, if ever, posted a recipe, on this forum, it's a bit galling to dictate to those who do how you require them to do it? (please take note too George ;))
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No we're not!
A volume measure for a solid is no more than an approximation of it's mass. The mass is the real variable you're trying so hard to control so precisely. If it's not, you're thicker than I thought.
For all practical purposes level metric tsp and TBSP measures are more than adequate for all our curry cooking needs.
Doesn't matter what people choose to use, provided they specify it clearly
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If it's not, you're thicker than I thought.
Here we go again. I don't consider ss 'thick' and i shouldn't think he appreciates your comment above. When I read his comment about forum standards, it made sense to me and didn't seem unreasonable. You then launched a broadside out of nowhere and we have another personal battle on our hands.
You said: "his degree of precision is really a bit of a moot point anyway." I disagree. We're not talking about minor differences but significant differences like between 15ml for a level tbls and perhaps three times that quantity for a heaped tbls, if that's what someone takes as 'one tablespoon'.
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Here we go again
Yes, here we go again, indeed George (hasn't this all been discussed several times before? If so, why are you raising it yet again?)
I don't consider ss 'thick' and i shouldn't think he appreciates your comment above
Too bad if he doesn't, I don't appreciate many of his..or your's for that matter. He shouldn't try so hard to win points hey? ;)
You said: "his degree of precision is really a bit of a moot point anyway."
Brighten up George, I said "THIS...."
By that I meant arguing the toss about whether a tablespoon measures 15ml or 17.7ml, etc.
We're not talking about minor differences but significant differences like between 15ml for a level tbls and perhaps three times that quantity for a heaped tbls, if that's what someone takes as 'one tablespoon
Yes, we (people) are talking about that too. On that we (I mean you and I) agree. And whether or not a tablespoon is 15ml or 17.7ml is largely irrelevant in that context isn't it.
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Are we going to have this puerile petty bickering in every thread from now on then? ::) Such a shame :-\
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Are we going to have this puerile petty bickering in every thread from now on then? ::) Such a shame :-\
Probably Domi, if you're anything to do with it (being one of the two or three, of course) ;)
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Pathetic, CA...absolutely pathetic. I won't rise to you, just so you know.
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Pathetic, CA...absolutely pathetic. I won't rise to you, just so you know.
QED Domi ::)
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I just dont get why people are being like this.
We are on this forum to learn or have we all forgotten that?
We all can make our own minds up on whats the right measures are.(no big thing really trial and error people thats why its fun cooking)
To belittle people on the forum is not the way for us to learn and will turn people off the forum.
IF we watch the videos and look at the ways the curries are been made then we can learn from them.
Dont just slag the posters off because you dont like what they post (eg measure,pastes powders,oils,TA,BIR and so on) this is a forum with many different tastes so lets all get along people.
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Guy's
Ok (can't believe I'm posting this ffs)
Just done an experiment with 2 tsp's and 2 dsp's that I have in my drawer. Each spoon is visibly different from each other. I borrowed some scales off druggie Dave next door, so I know these will be bang on accurate :P
1st tsp = 7g
2nd tsp = 11g
I heaped both tsp's as much as I could
1st dsp = 22g
2nd dsp = 27g (I nicked this spoon from my fave BIR, once a Manc, always a Manc ;D)
I heaped both dsp's as much as I could also!
I'm not posting this to stir things up ::), I just think it confirms to me, that next time I post a recipe, I will make my measurement rules clear at the very beginning, that being, use levelled metric measuring spoons. I don't think giving them in weights would be too practical, unless, you have a druggie Dave living next door to ya too :P
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I'm not posting this to stir things up
Well, that is what spoons are for Ray :P
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Nice CA,
Glad you picked up on that lol
Ray ;D
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Im more concerned now with Delia Smiths lack of precision in the kitchen.
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Well I have in a manor of speaking, looked at what I am using as a tablespoon and roughly equates to about 20ml. I say roughly as I can't find my measuring spoons so couldn't measure it accurately. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it were over either.
I think probably the best solution is for each recipe to simply say what a measure equates to.
I would like us all to work in chefs spoons, it makes us sound better. :P
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Axe,
I would work with chef's pinches, but I've got one hand bigger than the other :P
Ray ;D
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Im more concerned now with Delia Smiths lack of precision in the kitchen.
How so, is it any different to a BIR chef. The amount they cook and the amount Delia has cooked, surely it's enough to get a feel for quantities. If you know the ratio and use the same method, surely it can't go wrong.
I've heard time and again from professional chefs and the celebrity chefs, the only time you really need to be very specific with quantities is when baking or making desserts.
:)
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Axe,
I would work with chef's pinches, but I've got one hand bigger than the other :P
Ray ;D
No comment. ;D
Joking aside, had a conversation about this today. Was saying that having watched Rick Stein, his pinch is more like a teaspoon!
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Axe,
It's true, and I think I've made the comment before, when you hear a T.V chef say 1 tsp of this 'n' that, then proceeds to put in what looks like a shovel full, that's not really helpfull at all.
I know the topic is getting a bit fragmented but to bring it back on track, I think, when a member posts a recipe, it would be fair to say, if they really want people to experience their dish as intended, it would be a good idea to be accurate with the measurements, i;e, publish the measurement rules at the start of the recipe.
Maybe Admin (or someone else) could design a recipe template for members to post their recipes on. Maybe set up with a conversion formulae to take away any ambiguity whatsoever?
Ray :)
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Does it really matter just so long as I keep the ratio of spices the same. Like when making a spice mix, if the ratio 2,1.5, 1, 1, 1 it doesn't matter what size spoon I use as long as I use the same spoon.
That's the way I do it ;D Like most chefs say, exact measures only matter for baking...as long as the ratio is the same it's all good to me :)