Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Base Chat => Topic started by: Malc. on April 19, 2010, 09:41 PM
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I made my very first base tonight, totally off the cuff and in very small quantity. After all that's been discussed about base and the various ongoing topics, I realised I actually still don't know what it really is meant to taste like. I certainly had nothing to compare it to but simply went along with g/g paste, spice mix, cinnamon, coriander, salt and the usual veg minus the tomato. It ended up as a bland curry sauce.
I am sure its been asked or explained in a topic but the search results didn't find it for me. However, since the question or rather the answer seems to be evading me currently I thought it best to ask if anyone can explain exactly what a good base should taste like?
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Hi Axe,
You will find varied descriptions of how a base is meant to taste. Soapy, bland, tomato soup like and so on.
For me, a base should not be the main flavour of the dish but a basis to build on, so therefor, I believe that it should be blandish. Most bases don't taste that great on their own but transform in the final dish, whereas, CA's and SnS's do taste ok on there own. A good tasting base though, is not the requirement for a good final dish.
I think if you stick with bland going on 'OK' then you wont go far wrong. Just avoid bitter, too much ginger, poor quality oil, fresh chillies (if using) even tomato can give a base a bitter note.
That's my slant on a base, what does everyone else think?
Ray :)
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I made my very first base tonight...
Blimey Axe that's a surprise!
You've been talking on the forum for a while now and I naturally assumed that a base would have been the first thing you'd have started with.
Well I never! ;D
Anyway, as far as what a good base tastes like, don't make the mistake of equating base flavour to the 'goodness' of the base.
There have been several reports here over the years of BIR bases that have tasted so-so but that, at least for the person reporting, have produced their favourite BIR curries!
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I made my very first base tonight...
Blimey Axe that's a surprise!
Yeah, that surprised me too, or, do you mean it's the first attempt at your own idea of a base?
Ray :)
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I took it to mean this was the first time Axe had created his own base as opposed to cooked one created by others.
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Actually, your all correct. It was the first time I had ever made base and a recipe I made off the cuff based on what I have read, the time I had to make it and info assimilated from IG. Pics in Curry Photo's shortly...
I have had several reasons not to make any base recipes until now. But above all, the main reason I haven't, is that I knew I would be able to return to the IG for a demo on the base.
Besides what with Bhaji, Shami', Seekh and Naan, i've had enough on my plate.......literally! ;D
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I suppose its a continuation of the topic 'Base or stock' but I had always considered that the base should be somewhat bland but provide the foundation of the final dish.
It is interesting to hear the comments on not needing to taste good on its own. It also makes sense. I mean, if it does form part of the finished dish, then invariably it will only taste as a part. Its also essential that it is bland if it is to be a true one sauce for all base.
The one thing I did note tonight is that while a usable base can be made quickly, a decent base will need cooking for a good few hours to get the best from the onions.
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I like my base to be like a weak curry sauce, it looks ,like curry only watered down, but definately tastes like curry, only weaker :)
Be careful when cooking it, i prefer to taste as its going along and stop when it has lost the raw onion flavour, i find if i cook it for too lond it starts losing its punch and becoming bitter.
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I like my base to be like a weak curry sauce, it looks ,like curry only watered down, but definately tastes like curry, only weaker :)
This is what i've had best results with too. /the ashoka one being a good example.
I havent tried that many different bases though.
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I think it would be a great use of time to go to 4 or 5 indian takeaways and taste and compare their base sauces. I assume not all will want to allow this but hopefully a few will. I know some people here have tasted some 'official' base but has anyone tried a few different once to check for differences?
I think as the base makes up about 80% of the final dish it needs to taste pretty good. One that just tastes mildly of onion can't (IMO) result in a top curry. That said, I've never tasted a proper base so I could be completely wrong.
Axe, if you fancy a drive up to Fleet we could go hassle all the local restaurants!
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It will be interesting to see what the IG base tastes like. It has a more vivid yellow colour, appears to be thinner and also seems more opaque in comparison to pictures I have seen on here and indeed the base I made last night.
I'll battle that one first and if that fails Chris, I'll be on my way over. :)
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I don't know if its just coincidence but of the four different bases i've tried the raw base has got progressively more tasty with a corresponding improvement in finished dishes along the way, although this could also be put down to experience and better cooking methods.
I still have a small amount of darth's base and a shed load of ashoka base, plus a recent ca base to compare with but on the face of it the tasty bases seem better IMHO :)
Rob.
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Axe,
real good question.
for me there is a threshold. below it the final curry won't do it. as canicant says is the same for me - the better the base the better the final curry. i do believe that the base threshold only has limited affect on the final dish - the dish frying has probably an equal impact down to both ingredient, proportion and to a certain extent technique.
i also feel that the cooking method has an impact along with the end point of cooking the base.
see previous for my thoughts on it:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3607.msg32420#msg32420 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3607.msg32420#msg32420)
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Ok, at the risk of treading old ground I shall leave this until the demo. But, does anyone want to have a go at actually trying to describe the taste. I am particularly interested in this as I want to try and imagine the taste before I return to IG.
The base I made in the short time was very much boiled onion with a hint of fresh coriander and a very subtle curry background followed by a kick from the chilli, which I realise was probably too much.
Smelling the base when frozen, you very much get the carrot that was put in. I have some thawing as we speak and will smell it again once completely thawed out.
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Axe,
I would say, as you described it but without the chilli kick.
As for smell, I would say savoury, with a currish smell but, if you use whole spices like the Kushi base, they become the dominant smell and taste IMHO.
Ray :)
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Well I don't know if this will help Axe.
I personally don't like the smell of a base as its cooking in fact i'd say it was pungent, however as the base comes up to the finishing point its smell changes considerably for the better.
As far as taste is concerned the better ones have a more rounded taste not overpowering but definitely lacking that rawness (the cooking aroma) whereas some of the poorer ones seem to retain it to the end somewhat IMO
The difference for me is a thin fairly tasteless consomme type soup compared to a more cream of onion style soup but never having tasted the real deal i'm just going of my finished dishes.
The other thing that struck me was people saying a base should be bland, which begs the question is bland no heat or no onion taste or indeed both?
With this in mind i tend to not add any chilli at the base cooking stage preferring instead to add it to the final dish as appropriate, this seems to make the base more versatile (for me at least)
Rob.
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The other thing that struck me was people saying a base should be bland, which begs the question is bland no heat or no onion taste or indeed both?
You see this brings me back to my original topic about base http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4407.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4407.0) Is it a base sauce or simply a stock?
Like yourself, I have not yet sampled a true base, but this is something I am hoping to rectify shortly. You also say something that I think is common for many members in that the base they know, is what they have tried and tested from here or other sites of course.
The question I ask here I hope, will measure where we are all at, eventually.
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Axe/Canicant,
It's really how you define bland I suppose. It's difficult to describe a soup as being bland, as it is a stand alone dish, something that can be enjoyed from start to finish. Whereas a base sauce, is bland in the sense that yeah, a couple of spoonfulls will be pleasent to the taste but, would you eat a bowl full?
As for spicing, no, I don't think you should add anything that's likely to give the base heat. The base needs to be versatile enough to make your soft spice dishes as well as you hard spiced dishes.
As for trying a 'real BIR base' in theory, the home cooks base couldn't compare. The volumes alone make this impossible. Plus, it's also reputed that BIR's put oil back into their base from their cooked dish, again, something that would never be done at home. And finally, the BIR's and TA's keep theirs on a slow simmer all night, meaning that the base is developing all the time. So, there are many reasons why it would be hard to truly replicate or compare the 'home' base, to a BIR one.
As far as ingredients are concerned, carrots, onions, peppers, coriander stalks, and maybe tomato, all seem to be ever present in most bases, aswell as the usual spices. Anything after that, for me, wouldn't alter the taste that significantly unless the volume was substantial.
And as for your previous question Axe, about a base being a stock? I still believe that, that is exactly what it is. It is a vegetable stock, blended, and sometimes watered down, to give a finish dish some bulk and depth of flavour.
Only my opinion, you understand ::)
Ray :)
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Well if i was describe my base as being bland i would mean, i would describe it as say, if i bought a standard chicken curry from the takeaway, then when i got home i took out all the lumps of chicken and so forth, till you just have the sauce, then add about 1-1.5 ltrs of water to that, then that would be my bland base :)
In other words, when i heated it up and reduced it down it would be a nice curry again.
something like that lol.
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Axe,
it's probably the most difficult thing to do. it's a sort of cross between a soup (thick with specific taste) and a stock (water with background taste and dense onion particles).
for me it's tasty and moorish and difficult to pick out any one ingredient or spice.
it's probably easier to say what it's not. for example it's not the end point that most bases are left at on the site - this leaves it more towards the soup. water needs adding after blending and the base cooking for a further 1 hr.
also it's not just the taste that's important - it's the texture or thinness.
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the BIR's and TA's keep theirs on a slow simmer all night, meaning that the base is developing all the time.
By 'all night' I assume you mean during opening hours rather than literally all through the night Ray? If so that's been a topic of conversation several times over the years and it's a good point.
Have you ever anecdotally heard of, or indeed experienced, the phenomenon of getting a better curry at the end of the night than at the start? Coincidence?
Perhaps there's some merit in simmering any base for four or five hours?
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With the quality of the recipes that can be found on here, I don't think i'd ever succumb to cooking out a base stock for 5 hours. I am happy to submit to the fact i'll never produce an identical curry to my BIR.
I have been toying with an idea about getting extra flavour into the base. It also kills two birds with one stone. I looked at some pre-cooked chicken in the fridge at the IG and it looked as though it had been cooked in a liquid similar to the base. This lead me to thinking, why not pre-cook some chicken and lamb for that matter, in the base once its been blended. It will certainly add flavour to the base and will impart a good flavour to the pre-cooked meat as well. Given the quantity of base made I could cook alot of meat to freeze as well.
Has this been discussed before?
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Have you ever anecdotally heard of, or indeed experienced, the phenomenon of getting a better curry at the end of the night than at the start? Coincidence?
I have to say I've always thought so...if we're having a takeaway we always leave it till around 10pm to order it simply because of that reason.
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Hi SS,
Yes I have seen it with my own eyes in my local TA which is very good BTW. They have an open kitchen, very clean and well run, and there is always a massive pan of base very very gently simmering away during the night's service (not overnight ;D). I have also seen them with what looks like a large plastic ghee tub, full of cold base, taken out of the fridge, and poured into the pan of base.
So they must top up also, for a busy nights service?
And I always order late, 10/11pm usually, and yes, I do believe that the curry tastes better than an early ordered dish
Ray :)
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Axe,
cooking chicken in base is done and does work. the ashoka recipe for marinated chicken is very good starting point. i would not cook chicken in the main base pot though. i've tried adding chicken stock to base and it takes for me further away from BIR.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.0)
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg28438#msg28438 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg28438#msg28438)
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Thanks for the links Jerry, it will make for a good read. :)
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Curries always taste better late on because
a) the base has had longer to marinate.
b) you (if you're anything like me) have had longer to marinate, in some booze!
Cheers (hic)
CoR
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b) you (if you're anything like me) have had longer to marinate, in some booze!
Now you see I truly believe that no matter how hard we try, this really is the missing secret ingredient. :P
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Curries always taste better late on because
a) the base has had longer to marinate.
b) you (if you're anything like me) have had longer to marinate, in some booze!
Cheers (hic)
CoR
;D piss head :P anything tastes nicer when you're ratted...that's how those burger vans make their money.... :o