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Supplementary Recipes (Curry Powders, Curry Paste, Restaurant Spice Mixes) => Supplementary Recipes Chat => Topic started by: Malc. on April 16, 2010, 05:16 PM

Title: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 16, 2010, 05:16 PM
Having seen this mentioned several times now I am looking to buy some to try out. Only having seen Rick steins Far Eastern Episode in Bangladesh I am puzzled as to what to buy.

He says at one pint in the video that a chef adds mustard oil which you can tell by its dark colour.

With this in mind I have done a search and spices of india have oil branded KTC but it is not dark: http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-KTC-Mustard-Seed-Oil.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-KTC-Mustard-Seed-Oil.html)

However, they also have Dabur which is dark: http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Dabur-Mustard-Oil.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Dabur-Mustard-Oil.html)

My mind says I should buy the Dabur but i'd love some reassurance that this is the way to go please.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Razor on April 16, 2010, 05:36 PM
Axe,

The best way I can describe the colour is, it should be whiskey colour.

Ray :)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 16, 2010, 06:05 PM
I've now found another Mustard Oil with yet a different colour: http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Desi-Gold-Mustard-Oil.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Desi-Gold-Mustard-Oil.html)

Which brand do you use Ray?
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Razor on April 16, 2010, 06:10 PM
Axe,

hahahaha, Desi Gold, the one in your link mate, lol.

I have used others aswell, and I think one of them was Pride, ?

Ray :)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Razor on April 16, 2010, 06:12 PM
Axe,

What is your want, with Mustard Oil?

I only use for my chicken/lamb tikka marinade or, my mint sauce.  I don't cook with it

Ray :)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 16, 2010, 06:27 PM
Mostly curiosity and a want to learn not only BIR but the origin of BIR, i.e. Bangladesh. Its good to read about Mustard Oil and not being used in BIR but if Idon't try it, I will remain ignorant of it.

Having seen the Rick Stein Episode again, I have underpinned my desire to learn more about authentic dishes in a hope to understand how and why it was translated into BIR.

I know that sounds a little optimistic but its all part of the journey and I will be wiser for it. I can't believe just how hard I have been bitten by the curry bug. I half expected to get the Bhaji done and leave it there, but oh no, it seems I underestimated Chris's warning about being addictive, its turned into an obsession. :o
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Razor on April 16, 2010, 06:42 PM
Hi Axe,

It certainly is an obsession with us all lol.  Call me a sceptic, but my belief of our BIR curry is purely down to the need for the early immigrants to make a few quid.  They devised a way of turning their traditional cuisine into 'fast food' and more power to their elbows I say!

I would love to think that BIR is something different than a way to make ends meet, but I honestly think that's how it came about!

Ray :)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 16, 2010, 06:50 PM
I couldn't agree more, as Rick says in the Video I mentioned, they jumped shipped at port and what better way to make money!

Understanding their food will allow me I hope, to understand a little more about the way that BIR came to be. BIR being quite unique, it has obviously developed of its own accord and yet in the short time I have been 'hooked' I can see many similarities between BIR and Authentic Cuisine. Of course they are true spice masters and that I have yet to learn. Mustard oil here we come.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on April 16, 2010, 07:24 PM
Axe,

u need to try it - it's real potent stuff - u'll either love it or hate it.

i'm using it in tikka marinade only at the mo.

i feel it must be used more than this though. i want to try a little in base.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ad50f722a1ed8df491e7119243e1e2c1.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#ad50f722a1ed8df491e7119243e1e2c1.jpg)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: peterandjen on April 16, 2010, 10:15 PM
Ive been told and i believe that mustard oil brings out a lot more flavour from your spices when you fry them.
Try it next time you stir fry your curry, add 1 tsp mustard oil to your vag oil lol, and then cook as normal. Ever since i tried it ive used it every time except once and there was a marked drop in flavour in that one meal.

Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 16, 2010, 10:44 PM
I must have missed the 'vag' oil joke, what's all that about?
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on April 17, 2010, 08:38 AM
a dipuraja spelling.

will have to give peterandjen's idea a go - it's sort of what i was thinking in using it in base - it's very strong/potent stuff and u don't want much. based on 4 tbsp for cooking this gives a 1:12 based on 1 tsp. it might be tad too much for me as i'm only looking for a sort of hint. it's certainly a good starting point and better than mucking up a base.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 17, 2010, 12:20 PM
Aaa, I see, thanks Jerry.

I'm looking forward to trying this now.

If you get the chance, have a look at the last part 6 of Rick Steins Far Eastern videos here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3684.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3684.0)

At 4m30s a pork dish is being made using pork and black sesame paste. The point being, look how much Mustard Oil is in the Korai prior to cooking the onions.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on April 17, 2010, 10:54 PM
Ive been told and i believe that mustard oil brings out a lot more flavour from your spices when you fry them.

I don't think mustard oil brings out the flavour in spices so much as actually adds flavour to the ingredients as it is a very strong oil. It is not a "neutral" oil like say, sunflower oil, but imparts its own flavour like, say olive oil.

Harvey Day recommends the use of mustard oil in cooking curries and he his books were the first I used to cook curries way back in the 1970s. However he wrote his books in the 50s and 80s and they are not representative of current custom in cooking curries and certainly a fair bit removed from BIR cuisine.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: michaelpratt on April 18, 2010, 07:16 AM
http://www.indiaparenting.com/nutrition/data/nutrition033.shtml (http://www.indiaparenting.com/nutrition/data/nutrition033.shtml)

Very interesting little piece on mustard oil. It might be banned in the EU, but it's not in Bradford. I am now not sure whether to cook with it or rub it on my feet.

Though to be honest, a tsp of black mustard seed in to hot vegetable oil seems equally good especially in a home-style non-BIR curry.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on April 18, 2010, 07:52 AM
Axe,

episode 6 no longer available. i'm ok on mustard oil - no real niggles (unknowns).

i will try at dish frying though just as peterandjen suggests.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 18, 2010, 10:18 AM
Jerry:

Episode 6:

Rick Steins's visit to Bangladesh - Part 6 (http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/travel_and_culture/watch/v189891133rmnWTaG)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on April 18, 2010, 10:20 AM
Axe,

many thanks - got it on (i am sure i saw it on the TV a while too)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 18, 2010, 10:29 AM
Listen out to the Ginger Garlic Paste comment too. ;)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on April 18, 2010, 10:36 AM
Axe,

it must be a cut down vid - i did not pick up on the mustard oil or g/g.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Razor on April 18, 2010, 10:50 AM
Axe,

That was a suprise.  I always make my G/G paste heavier on the garlic roughly 60:40 split.

Cant believe he said that the black sesame seed made the dish look appetising ??? it looked like a plate of mud to me!

Ray :)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 18, 2010, 04:15 PM
Jerry, its definitely on there just after 4m30s.

Ray, I was very surprised myself, like you I would have favoured the paste bias towards Garlic. Perhaps it was just for the dish in question or maybe what that village is use to.

His comments on the black finish also surprised me, it looked awful and I would struggle to to take a bite. but I bet it tastes good though.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: chriswg on April 18, 2010, 09:47 PM
It looked pretty easy and as mentioned must taste lovely but it looked absolutely filthy though. I'd be up for giving it a go but I can only imagine it tastes very heavily of the burnt sesame seeds with a side of heat from those green chillies.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 18, 2010, 10:44 PM
Chris, its just a shame we're not all local as I would love to share this experience.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on April 19, 2010, 07:14 AM
Axe,

finally got there @4.30 on the video (the previous one was on biryani). i can't believe all the oil would be mustard - must be mostly veg oil.

hoping to make base this week and will try adding in some mustard at dish frying ~10% to start with - need it subtle.

the garlic:ginger proportion is certainly different. it's not something i feel i have a need to try. i wrestled for some time with just using fine chopped garlic on it's own. i've finally adopted g/g as std liking what the ginger brings but too much would not be good in terms of BIR taste (getting towards Chinese for me).
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on April 19, 2010, 09:49 AM
What I would love to have seen is Rick recreating the dish at home. Would he have used Mustard Oil given it's not approved for consumption in the EU?

Given the amount of flavour in the dish (mustard oil and sesame paste), I think the bias weighted towards ginger would be needed to balance the dish. I only bought attention to it as it surprised me, given the quest for BIR. I certainly don't think it is representative of BIR but it does give good insight into how the Bangladeshi use Garlic & Ginger pastes, not to mention Mustard Oil.

I'd love to give the dish a go but doubt i'll ever get the chance and I don't have anything to measure it. Something else that I picked up on Rick saying, that it is important for chef's to visit countries to see how the cuisine actually tastes.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: peterandjen on April 19, 2010, 10:09 AM
Ive got a few recipes in books that call for you to use 4tbsp's of mustard oil for frying with, so its not that weird.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on February 18, 2011, 03:31 PM
Finally, i've managed to get some oil. Had a choice of oils so I asked the Indian stgore owner for the best quality oil to cook with and he pointed towards this: http://www.pranfoods.net/culinary_mustard.html (http://www.pranfoods.net/culinary_mustard.html)

(on the left)

I've just opened it in anticipation of the aroma and was somehow totally surprised by the fact it smells almost exactly like Colemans English Mustard! Don't ask me why I was surprised but there you go. I just had it in my mind that it would be a a very musty smell, anything but not mustard. How bizarre is that! ;D

Anyway, I am very much looking forward to trying out Chicken Tikka with it.

Just a quick question:

Given the pungent aroma of the oil, has anyone tried using Colemans Mustard in a tikka recipe?
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on February 19, 2011, 05:06 PM
Given the pungent aroma of the oil, has anyone tried using Colemans Mustard in a tikka recipe?

certainly blinkers off idea - veg oil and mustard powder to give same effect as mustard oil.

i can't see me trying it as i can get the mustard oil easily but i guess for anyone who can't then got to be worth a try.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: rhodriharris on February 23, 2011, 12:42 AM
I was going to use mustard oil with my chicken tikka about a year ago but found it not recomended due to its high erucic acid content i think, but intrestingly enough i was too confused to bother and found most bottles of mustard oil to display the warning 'FOR EXTERNAL USE ONLY' as your bottle does in the picture, what a coincedence.  I searched to see if it was safe and healthy to use in cooking but too many conflicting issues hence i never used it.  Take a look at the bottom right of your bottle in the picture and you'll see what i mean.  Lots of traditional indian dishes use it anyway but i stayed away. Funny that.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: extrahotchillie on February 23, 2011, 03:43 PM
I use Mustard Oil to cook my base sause and ghee to cook my curries, best tasting ever; I look no further.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Cory Ander on February 23, 2011, 03:55 PM
But don't BIRs simply use the cheapest vegetable oil (or maybe sunflower oil, for the more "upmarket" BIRs) for both (primarily)?
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: extrahotchillie on February 23, 2011, 09:01 PM
Hi CA its been a long time, yes they do use the cheapest and cut corners, that's why I feel I have surpassed them; and believe me that is not showing off talk, just fact.

I cooked a Raan of lamb on Saturday with pilau rice and a most excellent tasting curry sauce beats them hands down, no brag just fact.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Malc. on February 24, 2011, 11:11 AM
I used the Mustard Oil for the first time last night, albeit this was a late addition to a previously made and frozen Tandoori Chicken marinade. I added only a small amount but instantly became agreeable to the aroma of the existing marinade and the mustard oil mixing together.  In all honesty, I couldn't really tell any difference in the finished dish but I suspect this is because of the late addition and the small portion size.

I am going to try a comparison test on my next batch of tandoori chicken, which will be made to the Lasan recipe. http://youtu.be/dnDuq-inc7U (http://youtu.be/dnDuq-inc7U)

Lasan seem to use Mustard oil alot and a quick Google search lists several video's where they openly talk about the use of this traditional oil. The question this raises for me though, is how are they able to use this oil, when it is not deemed safe for internal consumption within the EU? Surely the TV programs they have been on and spoken about it's use, would be careful not to air anything that was not legal. I am quite confused about this.

I also noted that the mustard oil that Lasan show they are using, is alot lighter in colour to my mustard oil.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Cory Ander on February 24, 2011, 11:29 AM
Hi CA its been a long time

It has, indeed...good to hear from you...how have you been diddling?  :)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: extrahotchillie on February 24, 2011, 02:43 PM
I've been diddling quite well playing the guitar again after 23 years taking up a lot of my time, but I still enjoy cooking the curries.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on February 25, 2011, 09:12 AM
I use Mustard Oil to cook my base sauce

this has crossed my mind a few times - not to completely replace the veg oil which i'm sold on but a small addition. i've noticed over successive base batches that many ingredients can be added in small proportions (marg, coconut block) which add to depth without the base going out of balance.

on my list to give it a try.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: sp on June 26, 2012, 09:33 PM
After all the warnings about "for external use only" I found "Uncle Roy's Spicy Mustard Seed Oil" in my local (non-indian) deli shop....

http://www.uncleroys.co.uk/Mustard_Seed_Oils.htm (http://www.uncleroys.co.uk/Mustard_Seed_Oils.htm)

Only made C2G "magic" (masala) sauce with it yet, looking forward to pre-cooking some meat with it to see if it makes a difference.

Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: StoneCut on June 27, 2012, 08:07 AM
Does anyone still have that Lasan video ? It's marked as "private" now :(
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on June 27, 2012, 08:16 AM
Does anyone still have that Lasan video ? It's marked as "private" now :(
It's available commercially (http://www.bbc.co.uk/commercialavailability/8143?format=DVD), if that is of any interest, otherwise most BBC series (and many others) can frequently be found in the murky world of BitTorrent ...

** Phil.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: StoneCut on June 27, 2012, 10:23 AM
Well, most UK and US TV content is not available in Germany (starts with iPlayer but then also covers DVDs). The DVD is quite expensive as UK import (I made some good deals on books previously so I was hoping it would be an OK price). ALAS - TV content should be free, I'll try to track it down elsewhere.
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on June 27, 2012, 05:44 PM
Stonecut,

link to Lasan recipe http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4182.0. (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=4182.0.) i like it a lot.

have attached recipe as i have it. i just stick all in a bowl as my std method.

(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b3eaee702118b06f0262d7403e72665c.bmp) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b3eaee702118b06f0262d7403e72665c.bmp)
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: StoneCut on June 27, 2012, 08:24 PM
Hi JerryM - thanks for that. What are the numbers ? Grams ?
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on June 28, 2012, 04:11 PM
StoneCut,

sorry thanks for pointing out - they are all ml ie 30 = 2 tbsp.

also spotted the lena brand of tandoori masala which is not relevant either - use any. i'm currently favouring TRS.

the pinch is 0.33 (1/3) tsp. i think you could also leave out the black salt although I've not tried it. i'm now leaving salt out of tikka or plain chicken marinade as per the recent curry2go suggestion.

i also aim to marinade the tikka for 3 days in the fridge. there has been much debate on how long and if pushed 6 or even 3 hrs will do. the tenderness improves over time though.

Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: StoneCut on June 29, 2012, 07:57 AM
Thanks for the corrections. Regarding Marinating: I tought it was counterproductive to marinade for such a long time since it "cooks" the meat too much ?!
Title: Re: Mustard Oil
Post by: JerryM on June 30, 2012, 11:19 AM
StoneCut,

there is much debate on the ideal marinating time. i'm sure BIR's don't go above 24 hrs. i use a gas bbq to cook the tikka (breast cut in half lengthways, marinade, then 6-7 mins per side on a Skewer ie 4 side in total). this may have a bearing on it. i do see a difference between say 24hrs and 3 days - the chicken is far more tender. there is no change in the tikka taste between 3hrs and 3 days.

i also aim for a thick paste as i find this produces a more intense taste and stir the marinade at least once per day.

best wishes