Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Talk About Anything Other Than Curry => Topic started by: Cory Ander on March 29, 2010, 01:26 PM
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Posted by chriswg and moved to here by CA:
My dough usually consists of:
7g yeast dissolved in about 50ml warm water and about 2.5g caster sugar. I leave this to ferment for about 15 mins in the warming oven. I then add it to 500g 'OO' flour, about 280ml warm water, a tsp salt and 2 tbsps olive oil. I knead by machine for about 10 minutes followed by 5 minutes of 'french flop'. I then leave it covered with a wet towel for about 5 or 6 hours at room temperature to prove.
My sauce is from the internet:
Ingredients
1 (10 3/4 ounce) can tomato puree
1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon sugar
1 teaspoon olive oil
1/4 teaspoon lemon juice
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon oregano
1/8 teaspoon basil
1/8 teaspoon thyme
1/8 teaspoon garlic powder
I stick it all in a saucepan and simmer for 20 minutes.
The results are a bit sweet but not dissimilar to Dominos.
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Chris, the key to a good pizza base is semolina. I use a Jamie Oliver recipe similar to this one: http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/pizza-recipes/pizza-dough (http://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/pizza-recipes/pizza-dough)
It produces great results. I normally make a batch of dough balls, wrap the unused ones up in cling film and freeze them. When you thaw them out, unwrap the cling film and by the the time its thawed, it will also be proven.
I also use a JO Tomato Base recipe which i'll post up when I get home tonight. Again this can be frozen.
Best Toppings:
Roasted Sweet Pointed Red Pepper
Caramelised Red Onion
Chorizo
Mozzarella
Drizzle with basil or garlic oil and a grind of pepper.
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I forgot to mention my secret ingredient of using cornmeal instead of flour to roll out the bases. It gives a really crispy result and fairly authentic flavour. It is definitely what Dominos use.
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chriswg,
love pizza too.
not tried cornmeal - i add 1 tbsp of oil to the tin if i want a crispier base.
the biggest step improvement i've seen is in kneading the dough by following rosemary shrager's method - u stretch it out away from yourself using the hard bit of the palm at the wrist joint, then roll it back in like a swiss roll, turn through 90 and repeat. much easier on the arms too.
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Interesting method, I've not come across it before. I cant see how that puts in plenty of layers but I'd have thought you would squeeze out all of the air. I guess for a thin and crispy base it would work better, I usually aim for deep pan so need plenty of air in the base.
The 2 biggest improvements for me were making my own tomato sauce (the Napoli 'Pizza Topping' is pretty gross), and buying a pizza tray (metal with holes in the bottom). I find they work much better than the pizza stone I used to use.
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chriswg,
get a tray/tin without the holes. i have both and never use the holes version.
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I know Pizza Express use trays (no holes), with sides. Being contracted to them I was able to chat with many chefs along the way. One in particular made a fantastic base, it surprising how just the formation of the base can make so much difference.
After doing the the whole spinning the dough thing, he formed the base but I remember he said the key was to push the dough into the corners (so to speak) thus creating a wall of dough around the sides of the tin. The pizza was then made up as per requirement and cooked in a pizza oven.
What you end up with is thin base with soft puffy edges. Best of both worlds in my opinion.
At home though, I have pizza trays with holes, only as much as I got them cheap in ASDA many moons ago. I've not had any problems with them though.
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hello axe, welcome to the forum.
i stuck a recipe with pics in a pizza topic here
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3836.10 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3836.10)
works for me, made this a dozen times now
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Jimmy, thanks for the welcome, your pizza is looking good. :)
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After doing the the whole spinning the dough thing
i aim to do this too as i feel it's essential to get thinner dough at the ctr and thicker towards the edge - when the toppings go on it produces a sort of equal thickness across the section of the pan.
ps u can do it quite slowly using both hands clenched into a fist - passing the edge of the part rolled out dough over them and round in a circle so that the full length of the perimeter passes over them.
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Hi all
I have noticed one thing in all your recepies for pizza sauce is that you are heavily flavouring the tomato sauce?This is ok for a deep pan american style pizza that could not be further away from an authentic thin based napoletana stone baked pizza.I make the most simpliest of bread recipes possible as it is not necassary to add anything else,strong bread flour,dried yeast ,water and salt thats it!
The secret to a great pizza is good quality toppings an less is more!!
But the main secret is the pizza oven,i have a built in pizza oven at home that reaches 500 degrees centigrade so thats twic as hot as a conventional domestic oven.My pizza's cook in approximately 90 seconds!
Maybe next time i cook some i will shoot a video so if anyone is interested then let me know.
pizzaman
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If your local to me, I am happy to film it for you. ;D
I think, like alot of things, the cooking process is more important than anything else. I also agree with your toppings comment. We seldom over do the toppings as you say, less is more.
Built in oven at home, now that's dedication. ;)
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Hi all
I have noticed one thing in all your recepies for pizza sauce is that you are heavily flavouring the tomato sauce?This is ok for a deep pan american style pizza that could not be further away from an authentic thin based napoletana stone baked pizza.I make the most simpliest of bread recipes possible as it is not necassary to add anything else,strong bread flour,dried yeast ,water and salt thats it!
The secret to a great pizza is good quality toppings an less is more!!
But the main secret is the pizza oven,i have a built in pizza oven at home that reaches 500 degrees centigrade so thats twic as hot as a conventional domestic oven.My pizza's cook in approximately 90 seconds!
Maybe next time i cook some i will shoot a video so if anyone is interested then let me know.
pizzaman
i just gotta see that. i agree the oven is the thing. i have an electric oven only and it slightly lets my pizza's down. with the right oven i would be near perfection if not there. The base is slightly soft in my pizza's due to pasting the wet sauce on before cooking so i now give the base 5 mins oven time on its own. this helps to create a crispier pizza.
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I dont really get the pizza thing, its just spicey cheese on toast imo, ok occasionally, once or twice a year, ill get a bit of a pizza craving and go and buy one but it doesnt make me want to go out and do it all the time.
Same as Donkey kebabs, i dont see whats so incredible about them either, im the same with them as with pizza's ill maybe eat 1 or 2 a year, and i usually feel bunged up to hell for a few days afterwards.
Yeah niether are a cullinary marvel in my oppinion.
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I have been reliably informed by 'er indoors that after all the discussion about pizza, I have to make a batch of dough balls and tomato sauce. she want's our home made pizza tonight. ::)
Opportunity to take a few pics though. ;)
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Chris, I promised you the sauce recipe I use, i've just finished a batch so here goes:
1 Large Clove Garlic finely sliced
1 Small Dried Red Chilli crumbled
3 Tins (400g) Whole Plum Tomato
2 Tsp Dried Oregano
1 Handful Fresh Basil chopped
Salt & Pepper to season
In a pan gently fry the Garlic until soft. Add the Tomato whole (if any are split remove seeds before cooking, this prevents a bitter taste developing), Oregano and the Chilli. Bring to the boil and gently simmer for 1 hour. Stir a break up the tomato then add the Basil and season well with Salt & Pepper. To finish, stir in two or three tablespoons of good Extra Virgin Olive Oil.
This sauce freezes well and will keep for several months. It can be used as a base for other dishes like meat balls or spag bol. If your just using it on pizza you could blend it before adding the basil to give a thicker sauce, but we like it a little more rustic.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/ff9c276c1a034c8b132f418740f24086.jpg)
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I dont really get the pizza thing, its just spicey cheese on toast imo, ok occasionally, once or twice a year, ill get a bit of a pizza craving and go and buy one but it doesnt make me want to go out and do it all the time.
Same as Donkey kebabs, i dont see whats so incredible about them either, im the same with them as with pizza's ill maybe eat 1 or 2 a year, and i usually feel bunged up to hell for a few days afterwards.
Yeah niether are a cullinary marvel in my oppinion.
Why be so negative about a food type that clearly not one of your favourites?
Pizzas ARE a culinary marvel in my opinion.
Pizzaman - what's the basic design/layout of your home made oven if you can get it up to 500C? That's no mean feat!
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Chris,
Tonight's Pizza was very good having tried a variation based on your cornmeal idea. Though I have to be honest, I completely misread what you meant.
Anyway tonight I made the dough using half strong flour and half cornmeal flour. The result was an amazing stonebaked base quite different to the almost Ciabatta style crust that we normally get using 3/4 strong flour and 1/4 Semolina flour.
I now consider it to be a successful failure, if that makes any sense. We will be doing it again though I am going to add olive oil to the dough when I knock it back on first proove. I may also adjust the amount of cornmeal back slightly.
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Pizzaman,
would love to see u're results either pics or video.
where did u get the oven from.
my main bug bear is that i can't adjust top & bottom heat in my domestic oven - on the next purchase going to be a must.
i'm surprised that the x2 heat makes that much difference - is it just speed. i cook at 200C thin base "napoli" in a steel tin at ~9mins and it's not far short of restaurant quality.
for me too the tom sauce has to be plain - i just add a little puree and sugar.
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George and JerryM my pizza oven is a lincat stone based electric oven which i built in above my cooker.To JerryM the difference of cooking a pizza in 90 seconds or 9 minutes is this,when the bread is very thin and goes into the oven,it rises instantly and starts to brown straight away which inturn creates a crispy outside(it doesn't have time to dry out) and a soft inside,with no doughy consistancy in the middle.Have you ever had pizza and picked it up and it sags in the middle?Well basically the dough is raw and not cooked.I have cooked pizza in many different ovens over the years and my pizzas were good but missing that perfectly cooked taste and since i have had the oven its all changed,i use a peel to pickup the pizza and land it straight onto the stone,the heat above and below really does make a difference.
My next project is a wood fired outside,but i am a little reluctant because they are expensive and the taste of them compared to normal stone baked is nominal.By the way i have cooked naan bread with the stove top method in a hot pan and then i did them in the Pizza oven and there was no comparison,the pizza oven ones were perfect.
Hope this answers your queries
Pizzaman
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Also i forgot to say the pizza dough needs to be 65% hydrated,this is very important to keep the braed moist and not like a crispy piece of cardboard.I will take some pics next time which will be a while as the missus has put me on a diet so no pizza or curries for a bit but i will return!!
Pizzaman
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pizzaman,
everything u say is spot on from what i've experienced.
i'm interested in the oven - can u give a few more details on the spec to look out for. i realise i'd have to save up but this would be the same as going on hols to me.
ps appreciate the hydration value - will check how close i am (arrived at through trial and error).
best pizza i've had was in Crete on wood. again agree with u that a bridge to far given the UK weather. however saying that UB seems to have success with his tandoor. i guess having the right wood is v.important too.
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I am moving house in 4 weeks and one of my plans for the back garden is a wood burning oven and a tandoor - probably won't be able to afford that for a few years though.
I now have a really stupid question - 65% hydration - how do you measure that?
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i take it as the proportion of "liquid" in the dough. for example the naan recipe i use is 300g of liquid and 450g flour giving 66% hydration.
i just need to check what i use for pizza dough.
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Hydration is measured by weight and is the ratio of water to flour. Fortunately, 300ml of water weighs 300g so its fairly straight forward to calculate.
A 100% hydration is equal parts of water to flour.
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pizzaman,
i use 59% hydration for pizza dough - established via trial an error over several yrs.
is this close enough for use in a domestic oven or do u think going up to the 65% is advisable. having realised that i'm quite close to it at 67% for my SR naan dough i do appreciate that this small difference makes quite a difference in terms of the stickiness (which is fine at 59% for the pizza dough but very sticky naan dough at 67%).
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Jerry
If you are happy with your bread at 59/60% hydration then thats fine.At 65% hydration the dough is very sticky and needs to floured well before lifting with a pizza peel,believe me i have had many stuck pizza's on the worktop before!If they stick they become a calzone!
Yes the hydration is important because the bread is moister just like naan bread,but if you are cooking it in a concentional oven for a lot longer then it maybe too much with the topping and the pizza base in the middle will be soggy,espcially if its in a pizza pan.
If your bread when cut holds the topping without sagging then thats fine.
I always remind myself that pizza is a food for sharing and when i have guests or family get togethers i make loads of bread and let people make their own,i think this is more special than the food itself as i love to see people enjoying themselves and seeing what the pizzas come out like!
In question to my oven it is a Lincat PO49X they are about ?500 new or maybe keep your eye out for a good used one on ebay
Hope this all helps and happy cooking!
Pizzaman
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pizzaman,
many thanks for oven details - i'm going to get one as soon as i've saved up.
since switching to thin base (i made thick "american" base for a long time) i'm getting the cooking pretty good - u can hear the steel circular slicer as it cuts through the base.
my real niggle is that the fan oven is rubbish (for pizza) and the convection oven has too much bottom heat. if i'm being picky i'll flash the top with the grill.
as u say pizza is food for sharing - we probably eat over a 4 to 5 hr period cooking ea when it's needed.
the only real bug bear i have is that the rest of the family don't share my love of big garlic portions on top so i end up having to make sections to order.
my fav is pepperoni & onion. but i do like what i call american Bolognese (made with green pepper no tomato).
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I'll have to try a higher hydration of dough by the sounds of things. Though I have always been happy with the results we get from JO's dough recipe, nice crisp thin base and a puffed up crust which I love.
Went online to look for Pizza Stones and it turns out these are cheap enough too, so off to Robert Dyas tomorrow to try one,
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just a thought but I used to make my own Garlic Oil. Great for getting a little extra garlic on individual Pizza slices. Might be worth a try?
Axe,
appreciate the thought - i literally shovel it on - i have to put markers on the pizza to show where the minefield is or my daughter makes them and i end up getting a tiny slice.
ps i'm thinking the oven for more than pizza and if u were thinking of buying a new one why not keep the old one and buy a new one that's just a tad different (that's how i think i'll approach the good lady anyhow)
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I must admit, the versatility of a hotter oven is quite appealing. We tend to cook smaller meats on a very high oven as the heat cooks it quickly without the moisture leaving the meat. Not too mention the Naan conspiracy. 8)
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JerryM
I love Garlic Bread and also my crusts i like to put garlic butter on them.What i do is mince 10/12 garlic cloves and add it to blended butter which is a blend of butter and oil(leave oernight in fridge) which means that when it is cooked ontop of the base in the oven the oil stops the butter from burning and giving a bitter taste,but the topping still tastes like Garlic butter if you know what i mean?
A little grind of sea salt and black pepper,Fantastico!!we also like litle dollops of tomato base for garlic and tomato bread
Pizzaman
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Axe
I have use pizza stones in the oven many,many years ago and in all honesty they are a waste of time,because they dont get hot enough in a conventional 220c oven.I started with a table top oven taht had a stone bottom and top and bottom heat elements.I would suggest you try and source one of these as they are very good.
Here is a link http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000XYN0GY?ie=UTF8&tag=ukh-21&link_code=as3&camp=2506&creative=9298&creativeASIN=B000XYN0GY (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000XYN0GY?ie=UTF8&tag=ukh-21&link_code=as3&camp=2506&creative=9298&creativeASIN=B000XYN0GY)
These are not too expensive if you really want to try,also they will cook superb naan bread!
hope this helps
Pizzaman
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Looks intriguing but fortunately my oven is not bound to 220c its cranks up to about 280c which is pretty good for the old timer. Though I bet its not reaching the high end these days. ::)
We are looking to replace the kitchen soon anyway so i'll be doing my homework on suitable ranges. Just don't tell the wife. ;)
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Just don't tell the wife. ;)
Me lips are sealed, Axe ;)
but how much to keep me mouth shut? :-X ;D
I wish 'im indoors was as into cooking as you blokies are, it's me who has to do all the greasing to get new cookers, kitchen gizmos and gadgets it's just not fair!! I'm still narking for a friggin' tandoor oven and I'm married to a builder! Life's a bitch! >:( :P
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I love Garlic Bread and also my crusts i like to put garlic butter on them.
pizzaman,
i'll try out the oil/butter in the fridge. i currently use both something like 50:50 but microwave for about 2 mins to cook it through (just enough to cook out the garlic - just the same as u do for curry).
for main pizza i add this garlic mixture on top of the cheese. for starters i use the plain pizza tom sauce and sprinkle on rosemary and of course the garlic mix. i do like the "flavoured" tom sauce too as a starter - i've never got round to making it on pizza day down to effort. i would use what i make for lasagne which uses basil:oregano:marjoram in equal proportions - does this seem about right. (976bar's lasagne post http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3564.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3564.0))
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I'll have to try a higher hydration of dough by the sounds of things. Though I have always been happy with the results we get from JO's dough recipe, nice crisp thin base and a puffed up crust which I love.
Went online to look for Pizza Stones and it turns out these are cheap enough too, so off to Robert Dyas tomorrow to try one,
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Pizza recipe is a great help for those who wants to make their own pizza and experiment in their own strategies. Exploring in kitchen makes a lot more excitement in making homemade pizza. It would be more preferable to create specialties in your way, in fact, pizza doesn't make it any harder in the kitchen.