Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: emin-j on February 27, 2010, 02:34 PM
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Hi All , Just come back from the Indian Supermarket and I struggled to find any Coconut Powder , I found Coconut Flour and Dessicated Coconut but Couldn't find powder , ended up buying Coconut Milk Powder which was quite expensive :o Coconut Powder is available from places like Spices Of India but is Coconut Flour the same thing :-\
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Hi All , Just come back from the Indian Supermarket and I struggled to find any Coconut Powder , I found Coconut Flour and Dessicated Coconut but Couldn't find powder , ended up buying Coconut Milk Powder which was quite expensive :o Coconut Powder is available from places like Spices Of India but is Coconut Flour the same thing :-\
Hi emin-j,
As far as I know, coconut flour is, coconut powder. It's what I use in CTM.
Ray
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Hi emin-j
Coconut flour is entirely a different animal to coconut powder.
The flour can be used to thicken curries and at the same time impart a coconut flavour to the dish BUT it does leave an element of graininess to the dish particularly if a lot of it is needed. It is ground / milled about 50% less than coconut milk during production
Coconut powder is exactly the same as coconut milk powder, if you add water to either it will turn to coconut milk, there is no difference in either just terminology.
Coconut powder I find is best for curries as it dissappears into the curry leaving no residual graininess to the texture no matter how much is used but imparting the coconut flavour as required.
However due to the cost of coconut powder, Im certain that BIRs use the flour, thats why Indian supermarkets carry the big catering sized coconut flour packs
Hope this helps
Paul
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Hi ArtistPaul.
At the risk of getting into a debate, this is a quote from the "Authentic Balti Curry" ccokbook, which is by no means a "curry bible" btw :)
"Coconut powder (Note, this is not desiccated coconut, but a powder with a flour-like texture)"
The recipe that this quote is taken from also requires coconut milk, which if your analagy is correct, surely the recipe would call for coconut powder of which a quantity will be used to make coconut milk?
Ray
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Hi Razor
No worries, no debate :)
Ive read this type of confusion in other recipes too, and it is confusion on their part.
Whilst a recipe sometimes calls for the use of coconut milk and powder, the reason being is that just using the equivalent in milk only, might render a dish too thin and runny, so using part powder retains the desired consistency and achieves the degree of coconut flavour required
I lived in Thailand for some years and as Im sure you know Coconut milk is used extensively in Thai cuisine.
whilst the majority of Thais use canned coconut milk as its so cheap out there, coconut milk powder is also visibly widely available in their food stores too since its is not as weighty or as bulky as storing cans and a little cheaper too.
But Ive never seen coconut flour being either as visible in these stores in the main food sections, but rather it was usually found in the ' baking / desert section ' which is what most Thais use the flour for as well as dessicated coconut.
Cheers everyone
Paul
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Hi
Thanks for that artistpaul , you are true about confusion in recipes.
Regards
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Hi Commis/Artistpaul
Yeah, that's where the confusion is for me then I guess. If the recipe calls for "coconut milk powder" then I pressume that a quantity of liquid will be added to the dish to create, "coconut milk" within the dish? If it just asks for coconut powder, I would still take it as coconut flour. As far as using coconut flour as a thickener, In my experience, it doesn't really do the job, certainly not in the same way as using cornflour or a roux.
I do agree with you artistpaul with regards to coconut flour adding a slightly grainy texture but again, this is a characteristic of a lot of bir korma's or CTM's.
Going back to commis's original querey, try either and stick with what you prefer lol ;D
Ray
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Hi Ray Hi Commis
Thanks for that guys.
Yes if you want to do authentic BIR then as per my earlier post, use coconut flour as Im sure BIRS will not spend the big money on either coconut powder or for that matter milk either.
As I said earlier in the Indian supermarkets there is always a lot of big bags of coconut flour on the shelves, no doubt bought by BIRs
Like you said Ray, try both and see what you prefer best & also bearing in mind the extra cost of using powder v flour
Cheers guys, have a good weekend all
Paul
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Just to add to the confusion,
One man's powder is another man's flour,
This is what I have seen in several BIRs,
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/67c27fa0465d54b79fd574d50efd41d7.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#67c27fa0465d54b79fd574d50efd41d7.jpg)
This stuff is coarser than flour but not as fine as dessicated,
Mick
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AchMal , that is the one I was looking for but they didn't have so I ended up with Coconut Milk Powder , and although this evening I made my Daughter her usual Korma using Coconut Milk Powder ( 7 teaspoons in some warm water ) she said she couldn't taste much Coconut :-\ I usually use creamed Coconut block with excellent results but I have read the amount of saturated fats in the Creamed block is worrying :o
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Hi all again
Listen your coconut block is better than any cocnut powder, flour or milk for that matter so far as flavour is concerned.
That bag is simply mislabelled due no doubt to language/translation issues.
Stick with the block Emin-j its by far superior.
But do buy a bag of that stuff if you find it and let your daughter try a korma made with it, I bet you get the same answer from her.
Good luck with it anyway
Cheers all
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i use both the block (base & dishes) and flour (dishes). the flour does give that graininess that u find in BIR. the block does give good taste.
i have tried coconut milk and desiccated coconut and not been impressed.
i guess one of those personal taste things.
when using the flour i add 100ml of water to the base to allow the flour to cook out better which reduces the graininess.
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Hi all again
Listen your coconut block is better than any cocnut powder, flour or milk for that matter so far as flavour is concerned.
That bag is simply mislabelled due no doubt to language/translation issues.
Stick with the block Emin-j its by far superior.
But do buy a bag of that stuff if you find it and let your daughter try a korma made with it, I bet you get the same answer from her.
Good luck with it anyway
Cheers all
Listen, indeed, Paul I am not disputing whether you think/feel that one product is better than another,
All I'm saying is, this product is what I have seen used in several BIRs, and that it is called Powder,
Regarding the point you make ref labelling and no doubt translation issues,, I can only tell you that it is packaged/labelled in England,
Thanks,
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Hi all again
Listen your coconut block is better than any cocnut powder, flour or milk for that matter so far as flavour is concerned.
That bag is simply mislabelled due no doubt to language/translation issues.
Stick with the block Emin-j its by far superior.
But do buy a bag of that stuff if you find it and let your daughter try a korma made with it, I bet you get the same answer from her.
Good luck with it anyway
Cheers all
artistpaul ,
I have to agree with at the moment regarding the taste but I think I need to add more Coconut Milk Powder to get somewhere near the taste , the reason I thought I would change to powder from the Creamed block i have been using is the amount of saturated fats in Creamed Coconut Block , I think I read somewhere it was 57% :o
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emin-j,
u've got 80% in butter and a fair few cheeses. stick with the block in moderation.
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stick with the block in moderation.
What do BIRs use? :-\
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CA,
we know BIR's use the flour. i also think they use block in the base. i use the block and the flour in tikka - the dishes are very different but both taste very good. my lad for example won't have tikka masala without block. i personally don't like masala from BIR as they put too much flour and sugar in.
we just need a bit a flexibility now and again to suit a persons individual preferences even though they might not be technically BIR.
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emin-j,
u've got 80% in butter and a fair few cheeses. stick with the block in moderation.
Don't use either of them in my Korma JerryM :D
If I can find a healthier option rather than the Coconut Block that gives as good a result I would go with that , the Coconut Powder shown in the photo above is what I was looking for and looking at T/A video footage is probably what they use.
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emin-j,
i'll look out for the TRS stuff out of interest (to compare with the Heera brand which i have). i'm beginning to think that flour is powder though (comparing the TRS pic and my bag of the flour).
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emin-j,
i'll look out for the TRS stuff out of interest (to compare with the Heera brand which i have). i'm beginning to think that flour is powder though (comparing the TRS pic and my bag of the flour).
Thank's JerryM , when I got to the check out at the Indian Supermarket I had a bag of Coconut Flour and I asked the Indian Lady on the till if this was Coconut Powder as for making a Korma , the Lady replied ' No that is for Baking Cakes and stuff ' She then pointed to the Coconut Milk Powder which is what I bought but it was over twice the price of the Flour for half the weight !
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emin-j,
i'll look out for the TRS stuff out of interest (to compare with the Heera brand which i have). i'm beginning to think that flour is powder though (comparing the TRS pic and my bag of the flour).
Thank's JerryM , when I got to the check out at the Indian Supermarket I had a bag of Coconut Flour and I asked the Indian Lady on the till if this was Coconut Powder as for making a Korma , the Lady replied ' No that is for Baking Cakes and stuff ' She then pointed to the Coconut Milk Powder which is what I bought but it was over twice the price of the Flour for half the weight !
Hi emin-j
I can understand why you got that response from the lady at the checkout. She would thinking of the more traditional way to make Korma (Khorma) rather than in a BIR style.
Ray
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I can understand why you got that response from the lady at the checkout. She would thinking of the more traditional way to make Korma (Khorma) rather than in a BIR style.
I reckon it's more likely she doesn't know what she's talking about. As far as I'm aware, traditional korma isn't based on using coconut at all.
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George are you saying that Traditional Khorma does not have coconut in it?
I reckon it's more likely she doesn't know what she's talking about. As far as I'm aware, traditional korma isn't based on using coconut at all.
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emin-j,
i'll look out for the TRS stuff out of interest (to compare with the Heera brand which i have). i'm beginning to think that flour is powder though (comparing the TRS pic and my bag of the flour).
Thank's JerryM , when I got to the check out at the Indian Supermarket I had a bag of Coconut Flour and I asked the Indian Lady on the till if this was Coconut Powder as for making a Korma , the Lady replied ' No that is for Baking Cakes and stuff ' She then pointed to the Coconut Milk Powder which is what I bought but it was over twice the price of the Flour for half the weight !
Read my earlier posts on this for you. I have already tried to explain this, flour is for desserts / sweets, milk powder is for use in curries for example.
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emin-j,
i'm beginning to think that flour is powder though (comparing the TRS pic and my bag of the flour).
Jerry,
As I understand it, coconut milk powder is derived from extracting and spray drying the liquid ("cream") from the grated flesh of the coconut (not the actual milk/water inside the coconut) whereas coconut flour (sometimes called coconut powder) is derived from drying and grinding the actual flesh ("meat") of the coconut.
I presume, in which case, that coconut flour is similar to finely ground desiccated coconut? I have never seen coconut flour in the shops and, consequently, have never used it. I use coconut milk powder. I find that creamed coconut block leaves a distinctive greasy/dry taste on the palate, which I am not particularly fond of.
You can easily tell which you have by seeing if it will dissolve in water. The coconut milk powder will dissolve and the coconut flour won't.
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Read my earlier posts on this for you. I have already tried to explain this, flour is for desserts / sweets,
artistpPaul,
i appreciate your trying to help and so am i. coconut flour is NOT just for desserts/sweets. it's used in BIR main dishes.
i think it's emin-j who's getting mixed up. CA has spelt it out exactly as it is for me.
the only other thing to be aware of is desiccated coconut - this is for desserts/sweets.
what i'm saying is the TRS bag looks exactly like my flour.
ps the flour is not like bread flour it's quite bitty but as CA says it won't dissolve in water.
please anyone - does the TRS bag "contents" dissolve in water.
then all of our blood pressures with all this salt can relax on such a petty subject.
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please anyone - does the TRS bag "contents" dissolve in water.
I'm pretty sure the bag I got was TRS and of course it doesn't dissolve in water because it is very finely dessicated coconut flesh. Having said that it isn't finely dessicated enough for me. I don't like the graininess in the finished curry.
This puts me in a bit of a quandry. I don't for one second believe that the BIRs use coconut (milk) powder as CA insists they do. This stuff flavours beautifully, but it thickens rapidly as well. Try putting one and a half heaped chef's spoons of that in your korma (12 TBSP), as I have witnessed three BIRs doing, and I reckon you'll be able to slice the korma it'll be that thick.
But, as I say, the cocnut flour I've used is too grainy and doesn't flavour as well. But this would allow 12 TBSP to be used to get the flavour without excessive thickening. I have always heard anecdotally that they use coconut flour and if I could find a finely dessicated variety then I would be 100% convinced that that is what they use instead of 95% as I am now.
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Read my earlier posts on this for you. I have already tried to explain this, flour is for desserts / sweets, milk powder is for use in curries for example
I appreciate everyones input on this forum whether their advice is correct or not we are all learning.
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I use Maggi's coconut milk powder. It tastes good, it isn't grainy at all and it mixes well with water. The last korma I made using it was fine - not too thick at all.
This is the stuff:
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2f&WD=maggi&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dMaggi%2dCoconut%2dMilk%2dPowder%2ehtml%23aGRO011_2dp#aGRO011_2dp (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2f&WD=maggi&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dMaggi%2dCoconut%2dMilk%2dPowder%2ehtml%23aGRO011_2dp#aGRO011_2dp)
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I'm well aware of the stuff PaulP, been using it for years for various things. So, how much do you use in your korma?
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SS,
The last korma I made was like this:
CHICKEN TIKKA KORMA
- Over medium-high heat add 3 tbs sugar and 4 tbs coconut powder to the pan
- Add 3 tbs of almond nut powder (or cashew nut powder)
- Add 200ml of Taz base.
- Add 200ml single cream
- Add pre-cooked chicken tikka
- Reduce down a little until the oil separates from the edges of the pan
The recipe is Josh's except I dropped the sugar from 4 to 3 from memory.
The consistency of the sauce was fine. But then again I don't like BIR kormas at all - I cooked it for somebody else.
Paul.
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ArtistPaul.
You're ok man. ;D This is what happens when you put scientists who don't have a Phd together ;)
Court is out for me since I only use coconut milk from an ordinary 'no brand' tin from the Indian food store an in any case I haven't cooked a Khorma so far.
This to me is just like the brand of tom paste people buy. Totally irrelevant to the final product, since it is about spice, quantity and personal taste.
I do agree on what you said about helping people. I think the times we live in play a part in that too.
Best regards.
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I use Maggi's coconut milk powder. It tastes good, it isn't grainy at all and it mixes well with water. The last korma I made using it was fine - not too thick at all.
This is the stuff:
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2f&WD=maggi&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dMaggi%2dCoconut%2dMilk%2dPowder%2ehtml%23aGRO011_2dp#aGRO011_2dp (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2espicesofindia%2eco%2euk%2f&WD=maggi&SHOP=%20&PN=Indian%2dFood%2dMaggi%2dCoconut%2dMilk%2dPowder%2ehtml%23aGRO011_2dp#aGRO011_2dp)
Hi PaulP ,
That's the same one as I bought from the Indian Supermarket , it was in a box 350 gms and cost ? 3.75.
I put just over 2 Tablespoons of powder into a little warm water then added to the Korma but this wasn't enough according to my Daughter who's the expert Korma taster ::)
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I don't for one second believe that the BIRs use coconut (milk) powder as CA insists they do
I don't believe I've ever insisted on that SS. I'm just saying what I use - mainly coconut milk powder. I had just never heard of "coconut flour" until it was mentioned on this forum fairly recently. I've never seen it in shops and I've never seen it mentioned in any recipes or in any recipe books. :-\
I do use "fine grained" desiccated coconut, which I presume is similar to "coconut flour". I often use this in roasted form.
but it thickens rapidly as well. Try putting one and a half heaped chef's spoons of that in your korma (12 TBSP), as I have witnessed three BIRs doing, and I reckon you'll be able to slice the korma it'll be that thick
If you're talking about coconut milk powder here, it doesn't thicken that much actually.
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ArtistPaul.
You're ok man. ;D This is what happens when you put scientists who don't have a Phd together ;)
Court is out for me since I only use coconut milk from an ordinary 'no brand' tin from the Indian food store an in any case I haven't cooked a Khorma so far.
This to me is just like the brand of tom paste people buy. Totally irrelevant to the final product, since it is about spice, quantity and personal taste.
I do agree on what you said about helping people. I think the times we live in play a part in that too.
Best regards.
thanks mate
I am the same, if a recipe calls for coconut I use canned milk first off. Im in Turkey so coconut milk is sometimes a little difficult to find on a regular basis, if its not on the shelf the next best quality alternative is coconut milk powder as it dissolves in water and produces milk, NOT coconut flour, its a very different product, it does not dissolve.
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This to me is just like the brand of tom paste people buy. Totally irrelevant to the final product,
I think it's much more analogous to the TYPE of tomatoes people use Mikka (e.g. fresh, tinned, puree, paste, passatta, etc), each of which most definitely IS relevant to the final product.
I think both ingredients (i.e. coconut and tomatoes) are very worthy candidates for discussion (indeed argument) and clarification. Too much confusion remains regarding both ingredients.
For coconut, we have the following quite different options which will give quite different results in texture and taste:
- fresh coconut flesh
- fresh coconut water
- desiccated coconut (of various coarseness)
- creamed coconut block
- coconut cream
- coconut milk
- coconut milk powder
- coconut powder/coconut flour
Regarding this thread, the confusion for me (and, it seems, for others) arises from calling it "coconut powder". I've always taken this to mean "coconut milk powder" whereas it seems it might be taken to mean "coconut flour".
Given this confusion, I remain unconvinced about what BIRs actually use....
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All of which are not tom pastes in any case.
If I fed you a tsp of either could you honestly say you would know the difference blindfolded and if not then why talk about it? Obviously 'it is written'.
I do now have a box of this stuff. I'm not convinced either myself Cory.
Best mate.
This to me is just like the brand of tom paste people buy. Totally irrelevant to the final product,
I think it's much more analogous to the TYPE of tomatoes people use Mikka (e.g. fresh, tinned, puree, paste, passatta, etc), each of which most definitely IS relevant to the final product.
I think both ingredients (i.e. coconut and tomatoes) are very worthy candidates for discussion (indeed argument) and clarification. Too much confusion remains regarding both ingredients.
For coconut, we have the following quite different options which will give quite different results in texture and taste:
- fresh coconut flesh
- fresh coconut water
- desiccated coconut (of various coarseness)
- creamed coconut block
- coconut cream
- coconut milk
- coconut milk powder
- coconut powder/coconut flour
Regarding this thread, the confusion for me (and, it seems, for others) arises from calling it "coconut powder". I've always taken this to mean "coconut milk powder" whereas it seems it might be taken to mean "coconut flour".
Given this confusion, I remain unconvinced about what BIRs actually use....
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If I fed you a tsp of either could you honestly say you would know the difference blindfolded....why talk about it
If a recipe calls for 2 tablespoons of "tomatoes", and you vary the tomatoes in a dish, as above, then the resultant dish will be discernibly different in taste and texture.
Similarly, if a recipe calls for 2 tablespoons of "coconut", and you vary the coconut in a dish, as above, then the resultant dish will be discernably different in taste and texture.
You know it and I know it.
THAT'S why I'm talking about it Mikka.
The clearer we all are the better placed we will all be to reproduce each others' (and BIR) curries.
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All of which are not tom pastes in any case.
PS: Case in point Mikka, just like one man's "powder" is another man's "flour", one man's "paste" is another man's "puree"; it's called different things depending on where in the world you are...
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CA has hit this on the head - it's no wonder we've all got a tad too shirty - powder and flour being supplied as completely different things by different suppliers. i was totally amazed that the flour i have is nothing like bread flour.
Secret Santa,
i think u must use the same as me - as u put me onto using the flour. i too used to find it a tad too grainy - just like u get from a BIR. i do add 100ml of water to the 300ml portion of base whenever i use the flour - this seems to allow the grains to cook out better. i tend to cook this type of dish for probably 7-8 mins c/w 5 as a norm. i'm using 1 heaped chef of the flour per portion.
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you put me on to using the flour. I too used it and find it a tad too grainy - just like you get from a BIR.
I've never bought or tried coconut flour but I assume it's what the BIRs use because of the huge sacks seen in Asian stores. There's no way this stuff is being used to bake cakes! It's far more likely to be the 12 tbls (approx) which starts off most kormas and CTM, as I think SS has pointed out. If you got the same graininess, can't you tick off coconut flour as being exactly what the BIRs use? Coconut cream may well produce superior results but It's probably too expensive for the BIRs to use.
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Yes Cory, I think we can all agree on that can't we ;)
All of which are not tom pastes in any case.
PS: Case in point Mikka, just like one man's "powder" is another man's "flour", one man's "paste" is another man's "puree"; it's called different things depending on where in the world you are...
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i too used to find it a tad too grainy - just like u get from a BIR.
I noticed someone else commenting on that too. Personally I've never had a grainy CTM (and I don't eat korma), so it obviously varies from region to region. Clearly if the dish is grainy though they are using coconut flour (finely dessicated meat).
i'm using 1 heaped chef of the flour per portion.
From what I've seen Jerry that's just about right, in fact, if anything, it's a bit on the low side!
Do you feel that this amount gives an adequate coconut flavour?
Another thought I had was to try to grind that flour up a bit more to get it finer. Obviously not what a BIR would do, but until I can track down a finer grained version might be worth a shot?
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Just found this on the net , checkout ' Korma Dishes ' ;) http://cafenazltd.co.uk/Documents/Restaurant%20Menu.pdf (http://cafenazltd.co.uk/Documents/Restaurant%20Menu.pdf)
And here's the main link , http://cafenazltd.co.uk/default.aspx (http://cafenazltd.co.uk/default.aspx)
Looks like Coconut Flour it is then :)
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it's what the BIRs use because of the huge sacks seen in Asian stores. There's no way this stuff is being used to bake cakes!
It's a while since I've been to a decent asian store George but if they are selling it by the sack that pretty much nails it on the head for me. Although I now want to know the graininess of the flour to be sure, and I sure as hell ain't going to buy a sack of the stuff to find out! ;D
Coconut cream may well produce superior results but It's probably too expensive for the BIRs to use.
Yes I'm totally unconvinced that this is used in a BIR or at least that if it is it's confined to the tikka marinade and base sauce.
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Do you feel that this amount gives an adequate coconut flavour?
Another thought I had was to try to grind that flour up a bit more to get it finer.
Secret Santa,
the 1 heaped chef does it for me and the "adding" water and cooking longer trick alleviates much of the graininess.
ps i use the block mainly in base.
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JerryM , did you read the info on the link above ? Seems like Coconut flour is definitely used by some BIR's .
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emin-j,
i can only apologise but i didn't. what i use works real well for me. i mainly use block in base. i also use block in CK's CTM (lad prefers it) but find i need to grate it or cut into very small pieces so that it dissolves quickly when cooking the dish.
for me and the good lady we love the flour. the problem at the TA is that those sort of dishes are too sweet for us and we've avoided them in the past. by reducing the sugar i'm finding i now like these sort of dishes - i'm even considering making korma (and that's breaking all of my prejudices). i do have to add the extra water to the portion of base and cook for longer to get the graininess down on the flour. i have tried using coconut milk as a half way house but it did not suit our taste buds in Indian even though we use coconut milk in making Thai green curry which we make a lot.
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Hi JerryM ,
Yes I have had my best results by far using Coconut Block in a Korma ( as per George's recipe ) it was just when someone pointed out the amount of saturated fats in Coconut Block that I thought i would see what else was available .
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i'd not tried any coconut powder and could not resist buying a pack - 25p to make 1 coconut worth of milk or cream is the claim on the packet.
trouble is i don't know how many coconut make a 400g tin (40p). for the 50g powder packet 26g is fat. for the 400g tin of coconut milk 24g is fat so suggests like for like.
the powder is actually just like bread flour (very fine powder). it has a stronger taste than the coconut flour for sure but none of the texture.
i bought it to try out in thai curry which i currently use tin coconut milk. coconut powder is on the left and the coconut flour on the right - confusing or what
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/6207b29c9844f173e6907826ba7a0af0.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#6207b29c9844f173e6907826ba7a0af0.jpg)
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/b58d09f558c5234dee7197ae952a6fd4.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#b58d09f558c5234dee7197ae952a6fd4.jpg)
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Interesting to see the results JerryM.
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The one on the right looks just like dessicated coconut to me.
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peterandjen,
i wished at the time of taking the photo i had some dessicated coconut - and never thought i'd wish that. the one on the right ie the coconut flour is very much different to what i know as dessicated - it's along the same lines but much finer ground and therefore cooks out during the cooking - dessicated stays as little rocks to me (only came across it in cake making though so not widely experienced in it). dessicated says tunnock bars to me.
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Jerry I bought a packet/box like this a few weeks ago. What the heck do you do with it? :o
Like you I've been using coconut milk (When I've wanted that taste).
Many thanks..
Me.
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I use Maggi Coconut Powder, which you can get at any Indian store, and also even Tesco.
You just pour it in, no need to mix it first. Great for Pathia, Korma, etc. Also great for my homemade flapjacks!
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I bought a packet/box like this a few weeks ago. What the heck do you do with it?
the packet says mix and stir briskly with lukewarm water. use 80ml water to make thick cream and 160ml for thin cream or milk. the packet is 50g of powder.
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Jerry I bought a packet/box like this a few weeks ago. What the heck do you do with it? :o
Like you I've been using coconut milk (When I've wanted that taste).
Many thanks..
Me.
Mikka ,
I found it takes about 3 tablespoons of Coconut Milk Powder mixed with a little warm water then add to your Korma or whatever for a decent flavour :)
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As Gezh says, "just pour it in"...as powder.....and give it a quick stir to ensure it doesn't form hard lumps.
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Hi
Gez, any chance you post that flapjack recipe please!
Regards
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7 pages on Coconut Powder i love that! but is it a nut?
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Just came back from a long w/e in Bolton , got a t/a Saturday night and the kitchen was in full view :) also the two guys at the desk seemed very friendly so I asked the question " when you make a Korma what type of Coconut powder do you use " both together they said " Coconut Flour " . ;)
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" when you make a Korma what type of Coconut powder do you use " both together they said " Coconut Flour " . ;)
The question now is what did they mean by "flour"? ???
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" when you make a Korma what type of Coconut powder do you use " both together they said " Coconut Flour " . ;)
The question now is what did they mean by "flour"? ???
I'm grateful to emin-j for the information he obtained. I always assumed that many or most places use coconut flour and now I'm even more convinced. The response he got seems clear to me. Where's the doubt? Wouldn't they mean the large bags of stuff marked 'coconut flour', as sold in Asian grocers?
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" when you make a Korma what type of Coconut powder do you use " both together they said " Coconut Flour " . ;)
The question now is what did they mean by "flour"? ???
Ummm , could of been Coconut Flour I spose ::) http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Fudco-Coconut-Flour.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Fudco-Coconut-Flour.html)
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The question now is what did they mean by "flour"? ???
The question, from the outset, was "coconut powder....is coconut flour the same thing?"
The response he got seems clear to me. Where's the doubt?
Anything but, as far as I'm concerned.
A, still unanswered, question is what is meant by "coconut powder". Does that mean "coconut flour" or "coconut milk powder'?
Furthermore, no one has yet determined what "flour" is, other than my suggestion that it's finely ground dessicated coconut. Is that what it is?
I asked in an Asian supermarket if they sell "coconut flour" and she looked puzzled and said she's never heard of it and offered coconut milk powder or desiccated coconut instead.
I saw in another that they had bags labelled "coconut flour" and these seemed to contain finely ground desiccated coconut (something I've always used but prefer to use coconut milk powder, as well as, or instead of, for it's smoothness, creaminess, lack of graininess and lack of dryness).
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I asked in an Asian supermarket if they sell "coconut flour" and she looked puzzled and said she's never heard of it and offered coconut milk powder or desiccated coconut instead.
You're in Australia, aren't you? Different world!
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You're in Australia, aren't you? Different world!
Perhaps, perhaps not. They are Indian stores, after all, George.
More to the point, what about the answers to the questions then?
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A, still unanswered, question is what is meant by "coconut powder". Does that mean "coconut flour" or "coconut milk powder'?
I see 'powder' as a generic term. What's more relevant is what's actually used in many/most BIRs when they make korma and some other dishes. Emin-j was very helpful in asking that question. They answered: 'coconut flour' so it's end of story for that BIR, at least, as far as I'm concerned. Now, not all BIRs will use coconut flour but I bet many/most do.
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So WHAT IS "coconut flour" George!? :-\
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So WHAT IS "coconut flour" George!? :-\
I don't know and I don't much care what coconut flour is, beyond any health concerns, if it works. I'm sure the word 'flour' is nothing to do with wheat but, then again, there's rice flour, corn flour and many others. I assume it's a marketing term for 'powder' or 'dust'. I doubt if its much different to the other forms of dry, ground coconut. If it's what many/most BIRs use, as also suggested by huge stocks in the shops, then it must be the first thing to try.
So WHAT IS
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So WHAT IS "coconut flour"
Mrs Coconut Flour says:
Coconut Flour is made from fresh organic coconut meat dried defatted and finely ground into powder of similar consistency to wheat flour. 15-25% replaces other flours in most recipes.
http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au/OilSales/OilIndex.html?Health/CoconutFlour.php (http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au/OilSales/OilIndex.html?Health/CoconutFlour.php)
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In BIR terms, which is what we should be thinking about, coconut flour is more than likely what they use, coz it's cheap. Coconut powder as in coconut 'milk' powder, would not be used, coz its expensive!
I think based on that logic, coconut flour is the one, even if it sometimes gets described as coconut powder. It is powdery in appearence but not as silky as normal flour in texture, hence the grainyness that you get in BIR CTM or Korma.
If anyone is in doubt of it, leave your CTM or Korma to go cold. You can almost see the texture that the coconut flour adds to the dish.
Im pretty sure that 'most' BIR's don't use coconut milk either, so why would they use coconut milk powder? I've known them to use cream or bog standard milk, and even heard of them using evaporated milk, but never coconut milk! Seems more of a Thai thing to me!
Ray
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CA,
for me the flour is a very finely ground dessicated coconut. the "finely ground" is crucial as it allows it to cook out in a relatively short cooking time. desiccated will not.
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I don't know and I don't much care what coconut flour is, beyond any health concerns, if it works
The reason it matters to me is that I want to be clear about what people mean when they say "coconut flour" and therefore what to use. I would think that most other members would wish to be equally clear. Surprisingly few hits come up when you do a Google search on "coconut flour" (UB has posted a link to one of the few...which doesn't particularly clarify it for me).
In summary, are we saying the following:
- By observation, most BIRs seem to use "coconut flour" in dishes such as Korma and CTM
- "Coconut flour" is finely ground/milled "dessicated coconut" which is is derived from drying and grinding the dehydrated flesh ("meat") of the coconut. It does not dissolve and imparts a "graininess" to the dish
- "Coconut milk powder" is different to "coconut flour" in that it is derived from extracting and spray drying the liquid ("cream") from the grated flesh of the coconut (not the actual milk/water inside the coconut not the coconut flesh itself). It dissolves and imparts a smoother, creamier, texture to the dish
- "Coconut flour" is cheaper than "coconut milk powder"
- "Coconut powder" is sometimes used synonymously with "coconut flour" but can also mean "coconut milk powder". The term "coconut powder" is ambiguous and needs to be clarified in recipes and discussions
- "Coconut milk" and "coconut cream" are the liquid versions of "coconut milk powder"
- "Coconut cream" is a creamier (more condensed) version of "coconut milk"
- "Creamed coconut" is the solid, condensed, form of "coconut cream"
If this is correct, I am clear about the various forms of coconut and know that I can mill "desiccated coconut" to get "coconut flour", if I choose to do so.
Any disagreements with this summary?
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If the above summary is correct then the answer to emin-j's original question "is coconut flour" the same as "coconut powder" is "not necessarily".
The term "coconut powder" is ambiguous and could mean "coconut flour" OR "coconut milk powder".
Clarification needs to be sought from whoever used the term "coconut powder".
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If members specify 'coconut milk powder' then this is what I would use. If it is coconut powder that is specified, I personally would use what I know as coconut flour.
But I think CA's summary is spot on!
Ray
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Clarification needs to be sought from whoever used the term "coconut powder".
I have absolutely no idea what Coconut Powder is but my train of thought would suggest that the above statement is the only true answer.
I say this as it is clear that in translation the word powder is used to describe the ingredient in its make up. So ground Cumin becomes Cumin Powder.
So the only real way of concluding what a particular recipe calls for, is to ask the originator.
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Cory just emailed me to say he'd accidentally deleted my last post, when I hoped I clarified exactly what coconut flour is, at least in my opinion. I hate redoing thngs, so I won't attempt it!
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Cory just emailed me to say he'd accidentally deleted my last post, when I hoped I clarified exactly what coconut flour is, at least in my opinion. I hate redoing thngs, so I won't attempt it!
Actually George, you didn't clarify it at all. You said you don't care what it is and to just "throw it in". Each to their own, though, eh? And please correct me if I'm wrong ;)
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Actually George, you didn't clarify it at all. You said you don't care what it is and to just "throw it in". Each to their own, though, eh? And please correct me if I'm wrong ;)
You are wrong. The main point I made was that coconut flour is the stuff in a sack or pack marked (surprise, surprise) in big letters 'COCONUT FLOUR'
If that doesn't clarify it, I don't know what does. We could start debating one brand against another but it would be a bit like a debate on exactly what is 'granulated sugar.' Unless you're into molecular chemistry, it's probably not necessary to know more.
So, it follows, that all you need to do is buy the stuff clearly marked 'coconut flour' and throw it in.
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If that doesn't clarify it, I don't know what does.
How does it clarify it George? The original question was "what is coconut powder...is it the same as coconut flour". A sack or pack marked "COCONUT FLOUR" clarifies nothing with regard to this original question.
It also doesn't help anyone who cannot find "coconut flour" in the shops. However, if they know what it is (i.e. ground desiccated coconut) they can anyway make it themselves.
Furthermore, out of the 12 korma recipes and 12 CTM recipes on this forum, NOT ONE specifies coconut flour. Therefore, your "clarification" doesn't help anyone making these recipes.
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I spent a few minutes searching for information on this.
Coconut Flour is made from fresh coconut meat. The meat is dried and defatted and then finely ground into a powder very similar in consistency to wheat flour.
Coconut Powder varies in definition between Dessicated Coconut, Coconut Flour and Coconut Milk Powder.
In my opinion, the proper definition of Coconut Powder should be the same as Flour, as Coconut Milk Powder is made by evaporating the coconut milk.
So with all the confusion that surrounds 'what is coconut powder?' I would refer back to CA's comment and ask the originator.
For what it is worth, I would opt for the ground variety over the evaporated, when using in a curry.
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Furthermore, out of the 12 korma recipes and 12 CTM recipes on this forum, NOT ONE specifies coconut flour. Therefore, your "clarification" doesn't help anyone making these recipes.
It probably goes to show that 12 out of 12 recipes on this forum are wrong, then! Everyone claims to be searching for the missing 1% in various recipes, but when anyone suggests an improvement, like switching to coconut flour, it generates a hostile response. I'm not interested in helping anyone make inaccurate recipes. I'm more interested in finding real BIR recipes which, for korma, almost certainly involve using coconut flour.
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It probably goes to show that 12 out of 12 recipes on this forum are wrong, then!
Unless those whose recipes specify "coconut powder" mean "coconut flour", of course? And that's where the uncertainty lies ::)
You'll probably be wanting to edit your own korma recipe then George (creamed coconut)...you know, the one you perfected over 20 years of trying and is identical to those you've had in BIRs ;)
but when anyone suggests an improvement, like switching to coconut flour, it generates a hostile response
I don't see any other hostile responses George?
George, we both have views which, although different, we are both entitled to. Others are free to decide for themselves. Enough said....
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You'll probably be wanting to edit your own korma recipe then George (creamed coconut)...you know, the one you perfected over 20 years of trying and is identical to those you've had in BIRs ;)
Whilst it's a very close match to the vast majority of kormas I've had in BIRs, I suggest anything can be improved, and that's what I hope to do, including experiments with the use of coconut flour. If I can improve the recipe further, then perhaps it will be even better.
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You'll probably be wanting to edit your own korma recipe then George (creamed coconut)...you know, the one you perfected over 20 years of trying and is identical to those you've had in BIRs ;)
Whilst it's a very close match to the vast majority of kormas I've had in BIRs, I suggest anything can be improved, and that's what I hope to do, including experiments with the use of coconut flour. If I can improve the recipe further, then perhaps it will be even better.
George ,
The Korma recipe you posted is excellent ( with the creamed Coconut Block ) probably better than any T/A Korma me and the family have tasted , the only reason I looked for alternatives to the Coconut Block was because of the amount of saturated fats in it ( I read 57% ) I didn't expect it to be such a popular :D thread !
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The Korma recipe you posted is excellent ( with the creamed Coconut Block ) probably better than any T/A Korma me and the family have tasted , the only reason I looked for alternatives to the Coconut Block was because of the amount of saturated fats in it ( I read 57% ) I didn't expect it to be such a popular :D thread !
Many thanks. My 'theory' for what it's worth is that basic BIRs probably use cheap coconut flour for the most part, but selected up-market BIRs may use the more costly, and possibly superior, coconut block. It's possible that 'my' recipe based on Ghanna's is inferior in some regards but gains by using two superior ingredients, i.e.. coconut block and evaporated milk. The net result is that it compares to basic BIR kormas but isn't as good as the very best kormas I've had.
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The net result is that it compares to basic BIR kormas but isn't as good as the very best kormas I've had.
Do you have any thoughts George as to what might be making those kormas stand out from the crowd? Are they still the standard looking (yellow puddle) kormas with something extra...or are they perhaps edging towards a more traditional korma?
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The net result is that it compares to basic BIR kormas but isn't as good as the very best kormas I've had.
Do you have any thoughts George as to what might be making those kormas stand out from the crowd? Are they still the standard looking (yellow puddle) kormas with something extra...or are they perhaps edging towards a more traditional korma?
Good questions! The best versions I've had, still look much the same but simply taste better. This is highly subjective, I know, and is from perhaps only 1 in every 25 BIRs, in my experience. I'm fairly sure they are still made from base sauce, and are not traditional kormas. With reference to the original topic, I think the guy at curryhouse.co.uk reckons his local place doesn't use any coconut in kormas.
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Taken from this site: http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Dictionary/C/Coconut-Powder-5063.aspx (http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Dictionary/C/Coconut-Powder-5063.aspx)
Coconut Powder
Other names: coconut milk powder
A powder made from desiccated (dried) coconut. The powdered product usually contains maltodextrins and sometimes salt. The powder can be used for making desserts or added to curries or chutney. Look for coconut powder in stores that carry Indian foods. Delia Smith of Delia Online suggests keeping it on hand as a pantry staple and states it works well for making Thai fish cakes.
Coconut flour
Coconut flour is made from the coconut fiber left over after liquid has been extracted from the coconut meat. The resulting product is gluten-free and can be used in place of wheat flour.
Link here: http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Dictionary/C/Coconut-flour-6716.aspx (http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Dictionary/C/Coconut-flour-6716.aspx)
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Coconut Powder
Other names: coconut milk powder
A powder made from desiccated (dried) coconut.http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Dictionary/C/Coconut-flour-6716.aspx (http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/Dictionary/C/Coconut-flour-6716.aspx)[/url]
I can tell you that coconut milk powder is not that
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Domi, Coconut Milk Powder is made from evaporated coconut milk not ground coconut meat.
Definition of 'powder' varies only as much as languages get distorted through translation. Flour is a powder but is ground from a solid, coconut milk is not a solid.
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Don't shoot the messenger guys! lol :P
Only posted what I'd found on another site, I didn't say it was gospel ;)
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Domi,
I understand, really I do, but this is the problem. With so much misinformation on the internet, we need to be accurate in our descriptions. Afterall, it is us that will get the recipe wrong if we don't. ;)
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Guy's
You're right about mis-information gathered from off the net, for example, there is this forum called cr0.online that is trying to tell ME how to make a bleedin curr............ooops
s**t, posted this on the wrong forum ::)
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Domi, Coconut Milk Powder is made from evaporated coconut milk not ground coconut meat.
Definition of 'powder' varies only as much as languages get distorted through translation. Flour is a powder but is ground from a solid, coconut milk is not a solid.
It was the definitions of coconut powder and coconut flour that I posted it for in particular since it was being discussed again in another thread...since this is the thread discussing coconut powder I assumed it to be the right place? TBH I hadn't paid attention to the coconut milk powder reference...apologies ;)
According to the manufacturers of coconut powder & coconut flour, they are one and the same.
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I had a problem with finding coconut powder from my local tesco yesterday. I had to use desicated coconut instead. I checked the goodnessdirect.co.uk site and they have both coconut powder and coconut flour on sale. The flour is used as a gluten free alternative to wheat flour, the powder is advertised as a rich and creamy sauce ideal for use in curries, etc.
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I headed over to Mullaco Asian supermarket in Dewsbury yesterday and bought some 'maggi' coconut milk powder, 150g, for ?1.29. http://www.mullaco.com/ (http://www.mullaco.com/)
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-Maggi-Coconut-Milk-Powder.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-Maggi-Coconut-Milk-Powder.html)
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Weird! I've been to three large Asian supermarkets during the past few days and none of them stock 'coconut powder'. All three stocked coconut flour (in large sacks, which makes me wonder whether this stuff is used in bir cooking) coconut milk powder (in smaller box packets) and descicated coconut (in a range of pack sizes). I get by fine with coconut milk powder. May also give the flour a try. very odd that none of the three stock the powder
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Weird! I've been to three large Asian supermarkets during the past few days and none of them stock 'coconut powder'. All three stocked coconut flour (in large sacks, which makes me wonder whether this stuff is used in bir cooking) coconut milk powder (in smaller box packets) and descicated coconut (in a range of pack sizes). I get by fine with coconut milk powder. May also give the flour a try. very odd that none of the three stock the powder
When people refer to coconut powder nai they mean coconut milk powder. The BIRs use coconut flour, that's why they stock big bags of it in the Asian grocers.
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Coconut Powder is sold in Tesco, I use it for fish cakes or sometimes meatballs, it stick the product together.
Blue Dragon also make it, but its very difficult to find.
Thai shops also sell it a lot.
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That is most likely Coconut Milk Powder and not the flour. I have never seen the flour in my local Tesco and it stock a huge variety if 'world foods'. The Blue Dragon is definitely milk powder.
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In response to Axe: Blue Dragon provide both "Coconut Milk Powder" and "Coconut Powder" as part of their range, so I'm not sure whether both are the same (?). I've not seen any "Coconut Powder" at two of West Yorkshire's top Asian Supermarkets and wholesalers. I've seen plenty of coconut flour in large pack sizes, so I can only assume that BIR's use it (the flour) in bulk.