Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on January 31, 2010, 10:49 AM
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i feel i've picked the pockets of all the nuggets on the site. i feel i've also eliminated all the red hearings. but in answer to emin-j's recent question "are we there yet" - despite this having nightmare connotations of kids and holidays for me" - it's a clear NO for me.
the trouble is for the 1st time in my curry journey i can't work out where i need to focus effort. my last post on ingredients was a desperate try but has produced nothing new.
don't get me wrong - my curries are very good and probably most would be very happy with them. i've also well exceeded my own expectations.
the trouble is something is just not quite right - when comparing mine side by side with TA.
what i do know is that it's not base, technique or equipment.
the trouble is that i can't really explain what the difference is. i'm not even sure if it's common or dish specific. the only example i can give is from making the lasan chicken - the dish came alive. it sort of jumped up another notch from being good to very good.
it could be that i just need to get more experience through cooking (now that i know what i know from my CRO journey to date). gut feeling it might be spice or paste related. the trouble is i really can't put my finger on it.
it would be real interesting to know where u all feel your own personal gaps are. my thinking being that it might just gell something for me - something i'd just not quite connected with.
fingers crossed.
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Well i havn't been coming here long but im happy that i have found my own personal secret ingredient. so that search has finished for me.
Although happy in that respect i still want to try different recipes, move on from Balti's and try Kormas/Bhunas Tandoori and so on. Also i want to find a good Chicken Chaat recipe.
So i think i'll be hanging around for a while yet.
Also the biggest plus for me in coming here is the fact that there's another site i joined a couple of days previously to here, That as far as im concerned is just a plain rip-off/con.
I like the fact that this place is free, the stuff i will learn is free, and i can happily speak freely.
Yes there's still much to learn.
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Hi
Petter and Jen, please if you will what was this secret ingredient that you discovered?
Regards
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JerryM , for the time I have been on this forum I dont think there is any member who has looked in such depth as you to find ' the missing link ' I reckon if you havent found one by now there isn't one :) I have been making just Madras and the odd Korma for the last year mostly at weekends , I have stood behind two BIR Chef's and watched them make a Madras , Ive watched no end of video footage and they have all used the same Spices / Process that we all seem to use on the Forum .
Only just lately have I been able to produce better tasting Curries consistently that my local T/A 8) Sometimes the T/A Curry is very good and sometimes it's just hot and flavourless , they only have one Chef which I would think would stick to the same Recipes all the time so how can they produce the good and not so good Curries ? Same Chef , Same Spices , Same Recipes .
For me I beleive it's all in the cooking technique , about a Month ago I did my usual Madras Curry and I just had the feeling I had overcooked the Spices the end result was just a hot but flavour less Curry , this is why I beleive our T/A is so inconsistent , being so busy it's easy to miss that ' perfect time ' to add that first ladle of Base Sauce so as not to overcook the Spices. For the last few weeks using the experience I have gained I have made sure the Garlic / Ginger and Spices are fried for a minimum time and are not left at rest in the frying pan where they can burn in seconds , I can now produce a Madras which is consistently better than our T/A . ;D
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Hi Jerry,
There is only one place you can go now and that is to put your hand in your pocket and pay a top chef to teach you the tricks of the trade.
I have been speaking to a local top-notch BIR about lessons and they are happy to arrange for their head chef to come to my house and teach me to cook whatever I want using my ingredients and equipment. I think this is the only thing that can now be done to get over the final hurdle. If he can get the taste like that then we know it is possible. If he fails then we know it is something do do with their equipment.
If any other members want to attend (I live in Fleet, Hampshire) then let me know and we can spread the cost. Our kitchen is very big so there would be ample room for 4 students and a master. I know of one member who is very keen for this already.
Im working weekdays in London for the next few weeks and as the Chef is off on Mondays and Tuesdays it would have to be on one of those days.
Jerry - Is it worth the train ride to get those final questions answered? The more of us that are there the more likely it will be that we don't miss anything. You would be a good person to have there if possible.
Post or PM me if you are interested and we can try and get a date that suits everyone.
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If he fails then we know it is something do do with their equipment.
I'm sure a visit by the chef must be worth trying and should be fun, but if it fails to deliver the flavours you're looking for, then it's more likely he's deliberately holding something back, or you don't cover the entire process, rather than anything else. The first thing to check is that he knows you're only interested in specific BIR dishes and nothing else. It will be difficult to arrange, too, because you probably won't have enough time to start from scratch and make everything needed, including flavoured oil and base sauce. Any other approach will invalidate the entire session.
Jerry will never succeed. His whole approach is wrong. First he says he can definitely discount, or has certainly ticked off, certain aspects. He even started a thread on myths which he thought were 100% certain. But how can he be sure, unless and until he delivers a 100% perfect curry in his eyes? Only after you've arrived, can you look back and be certain about what's needed, and what's not.
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@commis
For me it was a mixture of caramelised onions and spice mix fried together in mustard oil.
But thats MY personal flavour, as i've said before though we all have differing tastes and goals.
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thanks all - really appreciate your thoughts. i'm trying to pin down what to try out this yr and it does help. i think i'm going to go for spice mix.
emin-j,
u could well be right - i may well have arrived so to speak and i now just need to gain experience. this is exactly what my wife says. i still feel i'm short of what i can only describe as, "short of flavour". peter's missing ingredient ie mustard oil may well be it for me too. it could even be as simple as black salt or msg. the trouble is that i've tried certain things along the journey and discounted them at the time (i think these being black salt, methi, msg, cumin to an extent) - they may now be that final touch - i guess what George is getting at in the comments on my approach.
George,
i still believe the myths document holds good. the approach i've followed is the only one i know. i'm certainly up for a change though and will go along with whatever u suggest.
chriswg,
u know i'm not keen on travelling south. your offer is something i can't turn down though. how good is the chef's english - i feel i only need to talk to him for my needs. count me in. i ask on the english as this is the biggest difficulty in talking to the chef at my local TA (other than the boss on the counter).
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thanks all - really appreciate your thoughts. i'm trying to pin down what to try out this yr and it does help. i think i'm going to go for spice mix.
emin-j,
u could well be right - i may well have arrived so to speak and i now just need to gain experience. this is exactly what my wife says.
i still feel i'm short of what i can only describe as, "short of flavour". peter's missing ingredient ie mustard oil may well be it for me too. it could even be as simple as black salt or msg. the trouble is that i've tried certain things along the journey and discounted them at the time (i think these being black salt, methi, msg, cumin to an extent) - they may now be that final touch - i guess what George is getting at in the comments on my approach.
George,
i still believe the myths document holds good. the approach i've followed is the only one i know. i'm certainly up for a change though and will go along with whatever u suggest.
chriswg,
u know i'm not keen on travelling south. your offer is something i can't turn down though. how good is the chef's english - i feel i only need to talk to him for my needs. count me in. i ask on the english as this is the biggest difficulty in talking to the chef at my local TA (other than the boss on the counter).
:o ;D
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George,
i still believe the myths document holds good. the approach i've followed is the only one i know. i'm certainly up for a change though and will go along with whatever u suggest.
I'll say one thing - I may think your approach could go against the success you seek, but I do admire your refusal to get wound up by the sort of criticism I fired at you. As a result, I feel bad about it! I can't pretend to know the answers but, as I've said before, I reckon some group tasting sessions would help to 'calibrate' various members results. e.g. we may taste your curries and say they are superb, or not. Tasting each others' output would help us assess where we're all coming from.
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peter's missing ingredient ie mustard oil may well be it for me too. it could even be as simple as black salt or msg.....methi, msg, cumin
I would stake the shirt on my back that it's NOT mustard oil or black salt. These ingredients are common in traditional Indian cooking (for some dishes) but not BIR.
MSG is an ingredient that certainly was (and possibly still is) commonly used by BIRs.
Methi (dried) is commonly used by BIRs.
Cumin (white) is ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL to Indian cooking (traditional OR BIR). It goes hand in hand with coriander and is an indispensable ingredient. You will NEVER develop that BIR taste without it.
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I agree. A group "calibration" is a great idea. Unfortunately logistics dictate otherwise. For those close to ChrisWG's offer should try and take it up.
Cmon Jerry!
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I agree. A group "calibration" is a great idea. Unfortunately logistics dictate otherwise. For those close to ChrisWG's offer should try and take it up.
Anyone near (north) london? Surely? I'm in
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Anyone near (north) london?
Sounds like its Fleet, Hampshire.
If I lived in North London (and yes I know the logistics /travel time) I'd be in like Flynn.
Its funny... lessons/cookalongs with BIR chefs have come up a few times, with few takers and excuses all over the map.
When you're thousands of miles away without a proper takeaway, seems like it would be a no-brainer for those within a 200 mile radius?
Come on guys. Need more breakthroughs...
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Sounds like its Fleet, Hampshire.
As I understand it, there are two proposals on the go Josh:
1) Chris's proposal for a BIR chef cooking in his home (Fleet, Hants)
2) George's proposal to have a "curry meet" where members cook and taste eachother's curries (venue to be announced).
Both are excellent proposals and it would be nice to see a few members take the opportunities up this time....I know I would be keen to if I was closer than 20 000, or so, miles away! :P
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1) Chris's proposal for a BIR chef cooking in his home (Fleet, Hants)
This sounds immediate. All England-based members should consider though. I assume the findings would be shared with the forum.
George's proposal to have a "curry meet" where members cook and taste eachother's curries
This would be the ultimate. Throw a few local BIRs in wherever the (assume UK) venue is. Give me minimum 18 months notice and I will be there... granted its less than 20k km.
I would love to meet George, JerryM, CA, SnS, Mick, Haldi, Unclebuck, Stew, Chinois, Curry King.... and the list goes on. Maybe Bruce Edwards would pay a visit.
- Josh
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I'm pleased to hear there is a lot of interest in this. They did say they could do it over 2 days which I guess would mean a day of base prep, marinades, bhajis, spiced oil, pastes e.t.c. then a day of curry cooking. It would be good to hear peoples thoughts on whether that sounds more appealing, or less.
If we let them know everything we want to cook they will provide me with a shopping list so we have every ingredient required.
My essentials are:
Onion Bhaji
Madras
Tikka Masala
Garlic / Plain Naan
If you are coming I'll ensure your preferences are catered for, if you can't make it then I'm sure we can try to fit in as much as possible.
Cory - they do a mean Mushroom Bhaji so you might be in luck if we have time!
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I'm pleased to hear there is a lot of interest in this. They did say they could do it over 2 days which I guess would mean a day of base prep, marinades, bhajis, spiced oil, pastes e.t.c. then a day of curry cooking. It would be good to hear peoples thoughts on whether that sounds more appealing, or less.
If we let them know everything we want to cook they will provide me with a shopping list so we have every ingredient required.
My essentials are:
Onion Bhaji
Madras
Tikka Masala
Garlic / Plain Naan
This all sounds more promising now. Subject to the cost, I'll be interested in attending.
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This sounds interesting, is there any chance of one of you filming this?
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CA,
given what u say i will re try the msg and also buy some white cumin - i could have been ill advised with the stuff i currently have.
George,
i feel i've got to know u and realise that no ill is meant only a passion for what we love ie curry. i'm happy to go with an option 2 as well as the option 1.
Chriswg,
i will send u what effectively set's out what i'm interested in - essentially my question is where am i wrong or what's missing. i'd appreciate your thoughts on it and if u think it would be useful to post - i've held back so far down to recent posts.
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Cory - they do a mean Mushroom Bhaji so you might be in luck if we have time!
That would be brilliant! The other thing I'd be particularly interested in is their special (fried) rice 8)
So who have you got that's interested so far Chris?
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I agree. A group "calibration" is a great idea. Unfortunately logistics dictate otherwise. For those close to ChrisWG's offer should try and take it up.
Anyone near (north) london? Surely? I'm in
Sorry i dont seem to have finished the above post. I was really referring to meeting up with members. I meant to say i'm in harringay which is near finsbury park, camden, hackney, tottenham etc
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Hi Jerry,
There is only one place you can go now and that is to put your hand in your pocket and pay a top chef to teach you the tricks of the trade.
I have been speaking to a local top-notch BIR about lessons and they are happy to arrange for their head chef to come to my house and teach me to cook whatever I want using my ingredients and equipment. I think this is the only thing that can now be done to get over the final hurdle. If he can get the taste like that then we know it is possible. If he fails then we know it is something do do with their equipment.
If any other members want to attend (I live in Fleet, Hampshire) then let me know and we can spread the cost. Our kitchen is very big so there would be ample room for 4 students and a master. I know of one member who is very keen for this already.
Im working weekdays in London for the next few weeks and as the Chef is off on Mondays and Tuesdays it would have to be on one of those days.
Jerry - Is it worth the train ride to get those final questions answered? The more of us that are there the more likely it will be that we don't miss anything. You would be a good person to have there if possible.
Post or PM me if you are interested and we can try and get a date that suits everyone.
Did this idea ever happen? I'd be interested in being a part of it if it's still in the offing.
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Did this idea ever happen?
natterjak,
No it did not happen. i think at the back of my mind is scepticism that what is commercial know how will truly be delivered.
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Yes, I guess it would be easy for the chef to take the underestimate the prior knowledge of the group and to spin a line about recipes without giving the full inside skinny.
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Hi,
Take the opportunity and give it a go, you might be surprised and learn something new, got to beat guessing what they do doesn't it.
You might also find that it's not so much about them guarding things either.
The first IR kitchen I went into for lessons we made a cut down version of their base which we then made a number of dishes from. I asked to take a sample home from their normal big pot base home to compare with to make sure I was doing fine.
Oh, I also went their the Sat night before and ordered a number of dishes that we would make so that I could know their take on the dishes and ensure that what we made in the lesson was the same.
Went home and followed the recipe but it wasn't quite right. So I rang them up, talked to the chef and asked if I could come in and watch the big pot process from start to finish to work out where I had gone wrong. Next Sat I went in and found out exactly what I did wrong, it was actually a miscalculation on the cut down version, and went home and could produce exactly the same thing!
I also learnt too that using the Ashoka brand of Vindaloo Paste which I had in the fridge did not produce the same dish as using the Lashand Vindaloo Paste that the restaurant uses even though they had the same ingredients. So guess what I did, I went out and bought the Lashand Vindaloo Paste, all 5kg of it as it is made just for restaurants, lucky I like Vindaloo!
These things and many more I learnt in there which would never have come up without going in.
Cheers,
Mark
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natterjak,
Masala Mark has clearly hit lucky and well pleased for him.
one thing i would urge is to ask for a portion of there base so that you know what you are aiming for.
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Hi Masala Mark
Do you have a link to any website that shows the Lashand Vindaloo Paste please? cannot find it anywhere?
Thanks
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Sure, here it is, they may only be in Australia though, not sure.
http://www.allindia.com.au/ (http://www.allindia.com.au/)
There should be something similar though in other parts, when the chef was telling me about it he said it was a commercial paste rather then what you would get in the supermarket/grocery store.