Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Cory Ander on October 17, 2009, 01:41 PM
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Hi all,
I have a bit of a problem.
I love very hot curries (e.g phals). But that's not my problem! My problem is how to get the heat (i.e. piquancy) without getting the bitterness, "powderiness" or rawness associated with adding loads of chili powder (even extra hot) or fresh chilies (even habeneros) to a curry?
Do BIRs only add chili powder to get the heat/piquancy? Or do they add some form of pre-fried paste? Or do they add some type of commercial chili paste or sauce (I have seen BIRs use a chili paste.....which they gave to me to demonstrate how hot their phal might be)?
So how do they get lots of chili (i.e. heat/piquancy) into their curry without it being bitter, powdery or raw tasting? Chili powder easily burns I find (and hence becomes bitter)
Do BIRs fry the chili powder (in oil, for example) beforehand?
Do they use a blend of fresh chilies in oil/vinegar (maybe also precooked?)?
In short, how do BIRs make a phal?
Any advice and suggestions most welcome!
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If I had just one dollar for every time I've asked myself that question. They always ask me how hot I want it here which is confusing so I tried something a bit different. I used commercial 'Hot Sauce'.
I'm not saying they do this but it was very close and simple to do on the fly. I added way too much and the vinegar from the sauce overpowered it just a little. But........ I had no lamb in the sauce cooking. Hopefully CA when I've made some of that spice oil posted here I'll finally get top/middle/bottom as regards taste at last.
Its always the middle taste that was missing from my cooking (most times) anyway.
I often thought............
If I could only make my curry smell and taste as good as my Bahjis, I'd be happy.
Becoming a bit of a limp wrist these days as regards heat myself. They tone it down a load unless I stipulate.
I'm sure its liquid based heat. Are they any chillies in that spice oil? I'll go look. Good post as usual CA.
Regards.
Hi all,
I have a bit of a problem.
I love very hot curries (e.g phals). But that's not my problem! My problem is how to get the heat (i.e. piquancy) without getting the bitterness, "powderiness" or rawness associated with adding loads of chili powder (even extra hot) or fresh chilies (even habeneros) to a curry?
Do BIRs only add chili powder to get the heat/piquancy? Or do they add some form of pre-fried paste? Or do they add some type of commercial chili paste or sauce (I have seen BIRs use a chili paste.....which they gave to me to demonstrate how hot their phal might be)?
So how do they get lots of chili (i.e. heat/piquancy) into their curry without it being bitter, powdery or raw tasting? Chili powder easily burns I find (and hence becomes bitter)
Do BIRs fry the chili powder (in oil, for example) beforehand?
Do they use a blend of fresh chilies in oil/vinegar (maybe also precooked?)?
In short, how do BIRs make a phal?
Any advice and suggestions most welcome!
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So how do they get lots of chili (i.e. heat/piquancy) into their curry without it being bitter, powdery or raw tasting? Chili powder easily burns I find (and hence becomes bitter)
I don't know how they do it, but I would use one the uber scoville rating sauces, which are sort of essence of chilli on steroids, because you don't get the thickening/powdery effect with these. There are some good ones on this page and you may be able to get 'em in Oz.
http://www.chilliworld.com/search/chilliworld_best_sellers/index.asp (http://www.chilliworld.com/search/chilliworld_best_sellers/index.asp)
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hi CA have you tried my rajver phall sauce? the chef said if i wanted to make it hotter :o then fry some whole dried red chillies until they release their fumes remove them and put them on a paper towel to dry then they will crumble on top of the phall.
to make the phall sauce add 4-6 tbsp spoons of veg oil or curry oil, add the garlic if you add the tom puree then the spices /chilli powder mix well return to the heat then add the curry gravy mix well then add a good squirt of lemon juice/dressing and a good sprinkle of coriander mix in leave to thicken and remove any excess oil that rises 1 min before the end add 3/4 tsp of butter ghee mix well and remove from the heat finish with another sprinkle of coriander cover and leave to rest for 5 minutes with a lid on ;D
hope this helps CA!
regards
gary
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Thanks for the suggestions.
I've dabbled with extra hot chili sauces but, to my mind, they are similar to commercial curry pastes in that they also add a particular (unwanted) additional flavour (i.e. preservatives, acidity regulators, etc) which I have never detected in a BIR phal.
I've also added various fresh chilies (including habeneros) and find they also add a flavour which I have never detected in a BIR phal.
I've also played with dried chili flakes and dried chilies (similar, I suppose, to your suggestion about crumbling fried, dried, chilies Gary), but I've never seen parts of chilies in a BIR phal either.
My best guess is that they pre-fry extra hot chili powder to get the rawness (and perhaps some of the powderiness) out of it.....I think I need to play a bit more.... :P
Any other suggestions (preferably based on actual BIR observations) would be most welcome 8)
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hi CA the post above is from my visit to rajver and they let me cook it so just try it mate! we are all just a bit too methodical about breaking down what they do and in essence they will just bung the lot in mix it well and leave it to cook itself. if you add any chilli sauce do it at the beginning so the heat will evaporate the vinegar. or you could just add a whole naga and remove it before serving
regards
gary
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I hear what you're saying Gary, but that IS generally what I do! And that's where I end up with either a raw bitter taste (cos the chili powder hasn't been cooked sufficiently, I presume) or a burnt bitter taste (cos the chili powder has been burnt!).
Either way, I find adding lots of chili powder (extra hot, or otherwise) results in a bitter, powdery tasting curry...quite unlike a BIR phal.
This is why I think that it is perhaps best to pre-fry the chili powder into a well cooked (not raw and not burnt) paste beforehand....
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I hear what you're saying Gary, but that IS generally what I do! And that's where I end up with either a raw bitter taste (cos the chili powder hasn't been cooked sufficiently, I presume) or a burnt bitter taste (cos the chili powder has been burnt!).
Either way, I find adding lots of chili powder (extra hot, or otherwise) results in a bitter, powdery tasting curry...quite unlike a BIR phal.
This is why I think that it is perhaps best to pre-fry the chili powder into a well cooked (not raw and not burnt) paste beforehand....
I dont know the answer to your question Cory Ander but I don't think a BIR would take the time to pre fry Chilli for any meals :-X IMHO.
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hi CA what method are you using to cook your phal? the high heat from the start? or lower heat only increasing after the base is added? and how much chilli are you using? just chopped garlic or garlic paste/puree ( water mixed or oil mixed) have been favouring blended with oil as mouchak do. could it be the garlic? you could add the lemon earlier with the spices and chilli ( heard somewhere that it is normally added to "crack" the spices and enchance the flavour release)
regards
gary
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Hi Gary,
I use the same method I use for most curries (where I don't have the same problem regarding bitterness).
I generally add more (extra hot) chili powder (maybe three teaspoons per serving) to get the heat up, but I never really achieve the heat and flavour of a decent BIR phal, irrespective of how much chili powder I add. More chili powder just seems to create more bitterness and powderiness...hence my question.....
Yes, I never quite understood what this "cracking" was supposed to be all about? Perhaps it's supposed to be analogous to the "cracking" of alkanes in the petroleum industry? Dunno..... :-\
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I don't eat Phal's very often but when I do, they always have quite a few green chillies in them. They are always a lot hotter than the green finger chillies from Tesco too. I imagine a BIR will just follow a similar recipe to a Madras but add in triple the hot chilli powder and kick it up another notch with 4 or 5 chillies cut into long strips.
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Hi
Was chatting to my local Indian Grocer recently and he told me how he fries a couple of small red chillies in hot oil for a few seconds before pouring over the final curry.
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they always have quite a few green chillies in them....I imagine a BIR will just follow a similar recipe to a Madras but add in triple the hot chili powder and kick it up another notch with 4 or 5 chillies cut into long strips.
I agree that they no doubt bastardise a madras, but I have never seen a phal (nor a madras, nor a vindaloo) with fresh chilies in.
The only curries I have seen with fresh chilies in are jalfrezis or something similar which advertises the fact that they contain fresh chilies.
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The last one I had had more green chillies than chicken!
I had an equally hot chicken chilli massala which was very much Phal hot. The head chef was on a day off and I think the replacement got his spices a bit wrong as they are usually between a Madras and a Vindaloo. It was about the only curry I have faced and not finished due to being too hot. The colour was very dark and it clearly contained plenty of chilli powder but it didn't taste bitter. The first few mouthfuls tasted lovely before I lost all sense of taste :)
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Oddly and I forgot this yesterday. Over here they have Chilli powder and HOT Chilli powder. Someone told me the HOT stuff was Cayenne pepper. Burns yah ruddy mouth off truly. :-X
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I have to say, Corry, that if you don't know, nobody does! :)
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i'd skipped over this one being happy at madras heat and can at a push go vindaloo.
however this might help.
i've only had phall ONCE. the bit of interest is that we asked the chef how he made it so hot. he brought out a plate of small bird's eye chilli's. we had to eat them and i'd say they weren't that hot (as hot as the phall). i am pretty sure the chef was on the level. i would guess he would have make a paste like the ashoka and the heat would be down to using a lot in the dish.
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Reading through the posts I think Jooools has the right idea.
I would look to make a chilli oil and use this through all the cooking.
I have not made chilli oil but I guess it is the same principle as say Basil or Lemon oil.
Very gently heat the oil in a pan, only just so it is warm.
Add some cut up chilli and let this stay in the warm oil for say 5 mins
then turn heat off
when the oil has cooled down pour through a sieve and keep in a jar in the fridge.
I would guess this will keep for ages
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Oddly and I forgot this yesterday. Over here they have Chilli powder and HOT Chilli powder. Someone told me the HOT stuff was Cayenne pepper. Burns yah ruddy mouth off truly. :-X
Haven't been on here for a while, but I have always believed Cayenne pepper (6-8 on the scale ) to be milder than chilli powder, of course depending upon which chilli powder you use.
I would agree with Jerry, Birds Eye Chillis (8+ along with a thai variety called Tiny Terrors called Prik Kee Noo, (also known as mouse droppings!!!) are right up there at the top end of the scale when it comes to heat along with scotch bonnets (10) Habanero's (10), Manzano (9).
I doubt very much whether BIR's use the Prik Kee Noo's or Scotch Bonnets or Habaneros or Manzano. But I believe they would use birds eye chilli's as they are cheap and in plentiful supply.
I also think that making a chilli oil using hot chilli's will be like a good wine, it will only mature with age.
How many times have we all bought a hot curry, can't finish it all and put it in the fridge for a day or two? It always comes out tasting better and hotter the next time round........ as it has matured.....
I have grown green chilli's this year, which I have to say are nice and a medium heat, a little bit on the "not so sweet" side, but as with all chillis and peppers if you leave em long enough they mature, turn red and taste sweeter.
experiment with them, but certainly prepare a chilli oil with fresh chillis and let it mature..... :)