Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Starters & Side Dishes => Starters and Side Dishes Chat => Topic started by: chriswg on September 10, 2009, 08:48 AM
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Well I'm still trying to perfect an onion bhaji which is crazy as every Indian chef I have ever asked has told me how easy they are "its just onion, gram flour, cumin seeds and coriander, make a thick batter and drop into hot oil" or words to that effect. If it was that bloody easy then everyone could make them!?!
So, collectively what do we 100% know are in a BIR Bhaji?
Obviously onion, but what kind? Are the big ones that come in 3 packs okay or are the smaller ones tastier? Indians use a lot of red onion so could that be better? I assume small yellow onions are best but I assume a BIR will buy in trays full of large ones to keep costs down.
Secondly (and not everyone might agree), I'm certain that most BIR bhajis have potato in them. They will usually be cut into thin matchsticks and added to the batter. I have no idea on ratio of potato to onion though. Best guess would be something like 80% onion to 20% potato but it could just as easily be 50/50. The last 3 Indian restaurants I have eaten in (including the one that gave me the lesson) all said they have potato in them.
The flour has to be gram flour but will sometimes have an extra flour (rice / potato etc) which apparently makes them crispier. I have tried adding rice flour and didnt notice any change. I doubt many BIRs bother with this.
The spices must include turmeric to get the yellow colour and everyone seems to mention cumin seeds. Beyond that, there is probably 10 other ingredients that could be added but again I think the BIR will only probably add 4 or 5 in total. I would guess coriander powder, fresh coriander, pinch of chilli powder or paprika, possibly a pinch of hing / asafoetida and maybe some methi leaves.
Cooking method - they need to be cooked at a fairly low temperature although perhaps not as low as I first thought. Around the 150 - 160 degree mark is right. When a BIR cooks them, they will put in 8 or 10 into a fryer at a time which will really drop the temperature by up to 20 degrees before it comes back up again. I was told the chef will know by looking at them if the temperature is right. We also know that a BIR will cook a big batch of them during the day and leave them to go cold ready for a flash fry when they are ordered. This will probably be at maybe 180 for a minute or 2.
So, if we know 95% of how they cook them and whats in them, why do ours always taste so poor? I used to think it was down to the oil, but apparently they use fresh oil for them regularly. Why, when I squash mine flat do bits of the raw ingredients spill out and then cook differently to the rest of the bhaji? BIR ones always look so much better.
Most importantly, how do they pack in so much flavour? You can never really taste a strong onion taste, or taste gram flour, they are just crispy on the outside and moist in the middle with a lovely, slightly greasy spicy taste. I find it really hard to get the onions cooked well enough through the middle without burning the outside and without them tasting stewed. We know BIR's don't pre fry them so what is the secret? Maybe I'm cooking them too much at the initial stage, maybe 3 - 4 mins at 150 degrees is enough and they continue to cook while the cool on the side? Even if the cooking method is right, how do you get that much flavour in them without going overboard with the spices? What is the main taste in the Bhaji? Is it coriander? Cumin? Fennel seeds?
One other interesting point I heard on Friday when I was trying out a new BIR was the fact they use besan flour and besan paste in their bhajis. I was pretty drunk at the time so didnt pursue this avenue any further even though the chef was happy to share. Infact they listed all the ingredients but all I heard was the besan paste part. Im sure not evey BIR uses it, but it could be an interesting ingredient. Presumably it is just crushed cooked chickpeas (or maybe Humous as a lazy alternative). I also have bought a tin of chickpea Dahl which I figured might be a nice shortcut to getting more taste in them if I crush it up and add the paste to the bhaji batter.
More than any other Indian dish, Bhajis should be the easiest thing to replicate at home. If everyone can post what they 100% know that BIR's use or do to cook Bhajis then between us we should have enough knowledge to perfect the recipe.
Please post as much as you can. The more we know, the better the final result will be and the quicker we can get there!
(sorry for such a long post)
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Secondly (and not everyone might agree), I'm certain that most BIR bhajis have potato in them.
I've never heard of onion bhajis having potato in them.
Maybe he meant potato flour?
Maybe he was joking?
Maybe he was referring to vegetable pakoras?
Maybe he meant chips!
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Chris, the CP recipe works for me. They are BIR quality. No need to continue the bhaji quest for me. You may, of course have different tastes.
If only CTM was that easy...
-- Josh
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Besan is just another name for gram flour. Go easy on the turmeric as it burns easily and can give a bitter taste. A little bicarb added to the batter may help lighten the bhajis but don't over do it. Keep the spicing to a minimum, one T/A round here only uses fennel seed and they make some of the best OBs I've ever had. Finally, controversial bit, try soaking the sliced onion in sugared water before adding to the batter and don't forget to under cook them as they go on cooking after coming out of the oil. HTH.
Regards
CoR
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Cory - Only one of the restaurants advertised the bhaji as having potato in, but all 3 did. I think its pretty common in this area, it could be a regional thing to Surrey / Hampshire though.
Josh, the CP recipe really didn't do it for me. I want bhajis that look like this:
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/SqjoccQ-UqI/AAAAAAAAAZc/MfNiqX6ea5A/s144/B2.jpg) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/RHBOJTEvNVIzHNSrgFk2Aw?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=embedwebsite)
Not this:
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8ZixU3Nbf9c/SqjocBjyAII/AAAAAAAAAZY/OPJIpduB8Do/s144/B1.JPG) (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HRDoikO4ybKJgK8MhCDE5g?authkey=Gv1sRgCMzHr-q7y5XQPA&feat=embedwebsite)
CoR - I think the Turmeric tip is a good one. I usually use plenty but they do often taste bitter. I also, really like the sugared water idea. Where did you hear the tip? I figured the way most BIR bhajis look when they are cooked, they must be fairly soft when they are formed. Presumably doing this will have the desired effect.
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So what's wrong with these then?
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1820.0;attach=1102 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1820.0;attach=1102)
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Cory - Only one of the restaurants advertised the bhaji as having potato in, but all 3 did.
Sorry Chris, I don't understand what you are trying to say?
I am also from the South of England (including Hampshire) and have never seen slices of potato in an onion bhaji...sorry.
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I just cooked up 5 different batched of Bhajis. Each used 1/4 of a large onion which made 2 small bhajis per batch.
1 - plain onions, sticks of potato, 1tsp garam masala, 2 tsp ground coriander, 1/2 tsp cumin seeds, small pinch of turmeric, salt and gram flour. cooked at 160 degrees.
This was the control batch as it is about as basic as they come. As predicted the taste was bland, it was overdone on outside and had a raw taste in the middle. 1 bite was enough!
2 - pre-salted and gram flour dusted onions that had been standing for about 15 minutes, 1tsp garam masala, 2 tsp ground coriander, 1/2 tsp cumin seeds, small pinch of turmeric, and gram flour to make a stiff batter. Cooked at 150 degrees
This looked and tasted much better than the control but was a bit too salty. I put about a tsp of salt on the onions at the start which was probably a bit too much, half would have been better. I twice cooked one of these with the first cook only being about 3 minutes and the second being about 2. They seemed like they were cooked pretty well through although it was a little dark in colour after the 2nd cook.
3 - plain onions, 1tsp garam masala, 2 tsp ground coriander, 1/2 tsp cumin seeds, 1/2 tsp turmeric, salt, 1/2 tsp fennel seeds, pinch chilli powder, 1/2 green chilli chopped into rings + 2 MASHED COOKED NEW POTATOES. Cooked at 145 degrees.
This wasn't dissimilar to the control batch, but what a difference the mashed new potatoes made! The inside of the bhaji was much more moist and it lost the cake texture in favour of a much more BIR style feel. The spicing still wasn't right. I think in future I'll ditch the fennel seeds as they are a bit too aniseedy. The chilli taste and heat was very welcome and also helps cover up any spicing mistakes made.
4 - sugar soaked onions + same as number 1.
I didn't feel that the sugar soak brought a lot to the party. Maybe it needed longer (it had about half an hour) or maybe it needed more sugar (I used about 3 tsps). Unless I was doing something wildly wrong then I wont be bothering next time.
5 - left over fried onions from lunchtime hotdogs + spicing as number 1.
F*****g disgusting. Almost made me sick. Won't be pursuing that avenue again.
Lessons learned.
Cans of chickpeas or chickpea dhal when mashed up really stink and got thrown away before they went near the mixing bowl! It reminded me of fishing bait.
A light sprinkling of salt on the onions 10 mins before cooking definitely helps (As CP said it would). Just keep it light! I will definitely do this in future.
Potato is as essential as gram flour to the success of the bhaji. I know some will disagree without even trying it, but trust me - add mashed potato. I had a tin of cooked new potatoes in the cupboard that were ideal.
They have to be cooked at no higher than 150 degrees. Any more and they colour too quickly. After 4 minutes in the oil they should still be a very light golden colour. The second cook through (if required) should only take about 30 seconds to 1 minute.
If you are having them disk-shaped, make them into thin disks before putting them in the oil. Squashing them down later doesn't work very well.
Add the spices and flour to the onions before adding water. This way you can add tiny amounts of water at a time until they are really sticky.
Overall I think I have moved forwards. The next batch will be lightly presalted and will have crushed new potatoes in. chilli powder will stay, fennel seeds can go. Turmeric will stay very low amount. Fresh coriander would have given it a good lift too but I didnt have any handy. Methi leaves should have gone in too but I forgot. Also, I like lemon juice in them so I'll try some with and some without.
Any other thoughts or ideas would be very welcome and will be tried next week.
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....but I thought you had the perfect onion bhajis already Chris? I remember your mate's post verifying that fact? :-\
Potato is as essential as gram flour to the success of the bhaji
B*llocks! Lose the potatoes for Chr*sts sake! ::)
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I've never 'seen' the potatoes in the bhajis either (even though I have been specifically looking for them) but they are definitely in there. The head chefs themselves have told be so!!!
If you are ever near Fleet, go to the Golden Triangle and order an onion and potato bhaji. It will look and taste exactly like a regular onion bhaji, but as the name suggests, it has potato in it.
If you aren't willing to consider other ideas then what is the point of you being here? Anything that is different to one of your recipes is wrong apparently!
Why don't you cook a couple of batches this evening and put some potato in one of them and compare the results. Then maybe we can have a constructive discussion about the merits of using such an ingredient.
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Chris, I don't have to jump off a 20 foot high wall to know that it's bad for me!
An onion AND potato bhaji is QUITE different from a plain onion bhaji!
Next you'll be having me put tinned cherries, pears and peaches in it and tell me I can't comment cos I haven't tried it! :-\
Have you actually tried MY recipe? Or any others here?
My view is also that CP's is pretty close. The difference being in the cooking (i.e. double frying)
One chef also told me that they put banana in their naans...do you REALLY think I need to try that to prove it right or wrong (he was clearly having a laugh!)? :-\
what is the point of you being here?
Sometimes I wonder Chris, I really do wonder :-\
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Chris - comparing the finished article on looks alone doesn't do justice. WhenI make CP's they look more your original picture, not the one from the post.
Depends on how you form them in your hands.
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Chris, the top photo looks like these made with Mr Huda's bhaji paste:
http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Onion-Bhajees-Recipe.html (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Onion-Bhajees-Recipe.html)
Note that the recipe calls for egg. The paste contains:
Water, Garlic, Coriander, Chilli, Ginger, Vegetable Oil, Salt, Aniseed, Fenugreek, Other Spices, Citric Acid, Acetic Acid, Colours (E102, E110)
So the yellow color isn't only from turmeric.
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order an onion and potato bhaji.
Come on Chris, when you first mentioned potato being in an 'onion' bhaji in another post I clearly stated that the idea was bonkers. Now you admit that you're talking about a 'potato and onion' bhaji. Sheesh! ::)
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I think you have both misunderstood my point. CA mentioned he has never seen potato in an Onion Bhaji, I was pointing out that if he were to order a potato and onion bhaji he still wouldnt see any potato in it. The potato just becomes part of the batter but rather than being cakey and bland, it has a better texture and tastes much nicer.
The other 2 restaurants that I 100% know put potato in their Onion Bhajis sell them as Onion Bhajis, NOT Potato and Onion Bhajis.
It's also a pretty poor analogy about jumping from a wall.
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Before you all "top" yourselves, just try this recipe.
Don't deviate from the method or ingredients, but deep fry if you wish.
I think the result takes some beating.
Let me know your opinions.
http://jeenaskitchen.blogspot.com/2007/12/onion-bhaji-recipe.html (http://jeenaskitchen.blogspot.com/2007/12/onion-bhaji-recipe.html)
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Buckwheat flour, olive oil and tomato puree? ;D
Nup, I'd prefer to top myself! ;)
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I think you have both misunderstood my point. CA mentioned he has never seen potato in an Onion Bhaji, I was pointing out that if he were to order a potato and onion bhaji he still wouldnt see any potato in it. The potato just becomes part of the batter but rather than being cakey and bland, it has a better texture and tastes much nicer.
What I was trying to say (and failing to, obviously) is that I have never before seen potato specified in a BIR onion bhaji recipe Chris.
It's also a pretty poor analogy about jumping from a wall
Oh? I quite like it Chris. Perhaps stick with the tinned cherries, pears and peaches analogy then?
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I must admit, CA, that I used chickpea flower and rapeseed oil (acca veg.oil).
Instead of arguing about pesky potatoes, why not try it?
Regards,
NR
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I must admit, CA, that I used chickpea flower and rapeseed oil (acca veg.oil).
Instead of arguing about pesky potatoes, why not try it?
Regards,
NR
Hes already Jumped :D
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Hes already Jumped :D
You wish! ;D
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Instead of arguing about pesky potatoes, why not try it?
Regards,
NR
Simply put NR, I am quite happy with the ones I make and I have seen nothing that otherwise convinces me to change....not potatoes, not buckwheat flour (clearly a north american thing anyway), not oven cooking, not olive oil, not gluten free, not tomato puree.....
...not cherries, not pears, not peaches, not bananas.... ::)
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CA - I was under the impression that the point of this forum was to discover the secrets of BIR cooking and share that information around. The last 3 actual genuine BIR head chefs that I have spoken to all put potato in their Onion Bhajis.
None of them mentioned adding Yoghurt or Mint as your attempt suggests. I think the potato does the same job as the yoghurt in that in improves the consistency of the batter and allows you to make it sticky without having too much gram flour. The potato, however, doesn't give the sour taste that the yoghurt does. And yes - I have tried your recipe with the yoghurt in.
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CA - I was under the impression that the point of this forum was to discover the secrets of BIR cooking and share that information around
I agree. But I can't (and won't) accept that potatoes in a plain onion bhaji is part of that. Unless others can substantiate your claims?
The last 3 actual genuine BIR head chefs that I have spoken to all put potato in their Onion Bhajis
Sorry, I don't believe it.
None of them mentioned adding Yoghurt or Mint
So? Have you tried simply omitting them? What did you find?
as your attempt suggests
"attempt"...right ::)
I think the potato does the same job as the yoghurt in that in improves the consistency of the batter and allows you to make it sticky without having too much gram flour
I think you're wrong. Gram flour is surely sticky enough and stickiest of all.
The potato, however, doesn't give the sour taste that the yoghurt does
No, it's potato after all. Have you tried it with leaving the yoghurt out? I can accept that.
And yes - I have tried your recipe with the yoghurt in.
Ditto. And?
And which other recipes have you tried?
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What is your local BIR CA? I'll give them a call and ask if they do.
I have tried yours, CP's and about a dozen from websites and books as well as another 20 versions from my own experiments. I came closest a couple of days ago but still only at 80% for taste and 90% for consistency. I'm sure I can get the consistency up to 100% with a very light salting before adding the flour.
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Look Chris,
This forum is about BIR cooking. It's not about North American cooking and it's not about traditional Indian cooking.
As far as onion bhajis are concerned, there are a number of recipes already on this forum that adequately replicate typical BIR onion bhajis. None of them include some of the ingredients that this thread (and you, in particular) so far mentions.
To my mind, flavour is generally not an issue. The main outstanding issue is how to make them crispy and cooked throughout. To my mind, the solution primarily involves frying them twice. And/or maybe adding rice flour. And/or maybe adding potato flour. Though, to be honest, I've tried this (the rice flour) and not noticed a significant difference.
From my own experience, I find that adding sugar to a basic mix (e.g. onions, gram flour, spices) makes a huge difference to the flavour.
Nuff said I think Chris.
Other than that, many (basic) onion bhaji recipes here are "spot on".
Have you also tried CP's? What did you think? Missed the potato did you? ::)
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I've not tried adding sugar to the spice mix, only soaking the onions in the sugared water. I'll give it a go next time.
I have tried CP's with and without potato - I preferred it with obviously! I think it is very good but not enough flavour for me.
Have you ever tried marinading the onions in the spices for a long time (4 hours+ or overnight)? I think that could help with the taste of the onions and it is quite possible a BIR would make up the mix in the morning and cook them off in the afternoon. What do you think? If anyone has tried it, let me know.
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Cory - Only one of the restaurants advertised the bhaji as having potato in, but all 3 did.
Chris - the people in BIRs are notorious, in my mind, for passing on white lies and other misinformation when asked what's in their dishes. One of the best ways might be to say you're allergic to potato and seek confirmation that onion bhajis don't have any more than a trace element. Then they might tell you. Perhaps this would only work in BIRs where you are not already known. Good luck with your search for perfection.
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I know loads about onion bhajees
I've seen them made again and again, first hand
One very important factor is the freshness of the oil, they are cooked in
If it's new oil, they need to be cooked at a lower temperature, or the outsides will cook too quickly
They are cooked in a deep pan fryer
Here is one recipe I saw:-
This made about 16 bhajees
Finely sliced onions (perhaps six)
Half a takeaway carton of restaurant spice mix
A handful of salt
1 desert spoon ground cumin
1 desert spoon ground coriander
? a bunch of fresh chopped coriander
2 eggs
1 desert spoon baking powder
Gram flour (same volume as the onion mix)
Water to get mix to a slightly sticky blend
Firstly thoroughly mix the onion, spices, & fresh coriander.
Then add the eggs & mix again.
Then add the baking powder and gram flour and mix again.
Add water "little by little" to get right consistancy
Lightly form an onion ball in your hands.
Do not press hard together.
Cook in heated oil until ? done (about 5 minutes)
The baking powder makes them expand a lot bigger
The bhajees are left like this until ordered
Chef then takes a 3/4 pre cooked bhajee and slightly crushes it.
He reheats the bhajee in the deep pan fryer for a minute, and serves
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Half a takeaway carton of restaurant spice mix
That strikes me as a very large amount of spice for the amount of onions used, unless they are giant onions?
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My 2 cents on this thread.... I tried a few bhaji recipes until I tried the CP. To me, it hit the mark as close as I could want. The only difficult bit is in the getting the temperature/time right to have the right consistency between crust and center.
The taste is as good as I could want, and have scratched that one off my BIR list. Its one of those recipes I'm skeptic to veer from, as if I know the result would be inferior. After all... its just an appetizer. I'd rather focus on solving Madras or CTM.
Chriswg - the only thing I can think of is that somewhere along the road you experienced some super-duper-potato onion bhaji and are looking to recreate. I really hope you manage to recreate it, but I don't think its everyday BIR which is the general goal...
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Half a takeaway carton of restaurant spice mix
Christ, Haldi - I hope that's a typo...
I think if I tried that, I'd be in the morgue as the first ever cumin and coriander overdose... and I'd be yellow from the turmeric...
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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
I make a post starting with "Christ" on my 666th post... speaking about my death... on September 11th.
Just noticed it now. I won't lose any sleep... thinking about the king prawns I bought for tomorrow's King Prawn Jalfrezi :D :D :D
Might make some onion bhajis to start.
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That strikes me as a very large amount of spice for the amount of onions used, unless they are giant onions?
That was what it looked like
The chef took an empty carton and scooped out the spice
Perhaps it was less, but that's what it looked like
As usual there weren't exact measurements of anything
I guess that comes with experience
The onions were a bit smaller than tennis balls
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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
I make a post starting with "Christ" on my 666th post... speaking about my death... on September 11th.
Just noticed it now. I won't lose any sleep... thinking about the king prawns I bought for tomorrow's King Prawn Jalfrezi :D :D :D
Might make some onion bhajis to start.
So tell us Joshallen......
Are you still in the land of the BIR or have you become a BIR "Gosht".............. ;)
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Hi Haldi
I love the post and those amounts certainly wouldn't result in bland bhajis! I'll give them a go soon and let you know my thoughts.
Do most people here cook their bhajis well in advance then recook later? I'm guessing while they cool to room temperature the onion will continue to soften. BIR Bhajis always seem to be very light in colour on the outside but cooked perfectly through the middle. Even at 140 degrees I cant replicate that.
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Guys, just a small point. I have always loved Bhajis though they tend not be available in my home city Glasgow so will enjoy cooking them sometime soon as a result of the thread here. I don't Know if this will help but it may. I have spent over 30 years attempting to master the making of true BIR ( admittedly Glasgow style ) Pakora without ever reaching my ideal until I got the unlikely tip from The Ashoka chef of not actually using water to create the batter but by leaving the dry ingredients for 4 or 5 hours the Gram flour seems to draw the liquid content from the vegetables particularly the onion.
This amazed me when I was in the kitchen as it was way beyond what I expected, not sure if this will help but I will look to do it when I get round to bhajis in the future. It certainly has made all the diference to my search
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Hi Panpot
Thanks for the great tip. I'll definitely try that soon. I imagine it would also make the onions very soft prior to cooking which would help get the soft texture that the BIR's seem to always achieve.
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BIR Bhajis always seem to be very light in colour on the outside but cooked perfectly through the middle. Even at 140 degrees I cant replicate that.
Join the club! :-\
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I'm not a massive bhaji aficionado - but I do have this to offer...
Where I live, there is "one" true BIR in a 50 miles radius, so when I eat out, I go there. Last Saturday I was there and ordered a chicken Vindaloo extra hot.
It was so hot I had to go for a walk to get some air. I wandered around the back of the restaurant and observed through the back door to the kitchen for a good five minutes. I saw all the usuals -- base gravy, tandoor, etc.
One thing I did definitely see was bhajis being fried to order. They had a bucket of onion/gram/spice mix and were simply forming balls and dropping them in the fryer.
Definitely no pre-cook. Their bhajis are excellent and consistent. Light outside, yet cooked through. Slightly larger than golf balls.
-- Josh
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were simply forming balls and dropping them in the fryer.
this is where i feel they have the edge somehow. i like panpots idea above - it may help to perhaps also soften the onion. i'm also thinking of cutting the onion up more as opposed to thinish slices.
i can't get the ball as tight as they do and so the open texture of the ball cooks more than u would like on the inside. the outside is the same as BIR when u cook at 160C and wait till they float.
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Hi Josh
Thanks for the comments and its very interesting to hear a BIR not precooking the bhajis.
Were you there long enough to roughly judge how long they were cooked for?
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...The Ashoka chef of not actually using water to create the batter but by leaving the dry ingredients for 4 or 5 hours the Gram flour seems to draw the liquid content from the vegetables particularly the onion.
I have some onions in spiced gram flour in the fridge. I'll cook them in 4 - 5 hours time and see how they taste. I'll also go a bit crazy with the spice mix for half of the mix as per Haldi's post to see if there is any discernible difference.
I'll also cook some in my 'used' Crisp and Dry oil, and some in fresh KTC Vegetable Oil that all the BIR's seem to favour.
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Okay so the onions had gone nice and soft over the 4 hours and were easy to form into balls or disks to cook. I'm still stuck with the same problem of the onions not really being cooked through. The texture is almost rubbery but that is probably down to the long cook time at a low heat.
Someone mentioned the turmeric burns very quickly, is that true of other spices like ground coriander and garam masala? For these ones I used 1 large onion with 1 tsp garam masala, 1 tsp cumin seeds, 2 tsps ground coriander, 1 tsp paprika, 2 tsps madras curry powder and 1/2 tsp chilli powder. Could adding too much spice be the reason they cook and go dark so quickly? Is this a classic case of less is more?
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Okay so the onions had gone nice and soft over the 4 hours and were easy to form into balls or disks to cook. I'm still stuck with the same problem of the onions not really being cooked through. The texture is almost rubbery but that is probably down to the long cook time at a low heat.
Someone mentioned the turmeric burns very quickly, is that true of other spices like ground coriander and garam masala? For these ones I used 1 large onion with 1 tsp garam masala, 1 tsp cumin seeds, 2 tsps ground coriander, 1 tsp paprika, 2 tsps madras curry powder and 1/2 tsp chilli powder. Could adding too much spice be the reason they cook and go dark so quickly? Is this a classic case of less is more?
Hi Chris,
ALL powdered spices will burn very quickly if cooked on a too higher heat for too long.
I have made bhajis before as in the recipe I posted from my Indian cookery course. If you take a look at this, you need to either grate or shred the vegetables finely, so that they cook more quickly along with the spice and "batter" mixture.
Maybe, sticking them in a hot oven for a while prior to deep frying would be an answer if you made the bhajis larger than say 5cm diameter.
I don't think this is a science here, whether it be Indian cooking or anything else, if you make a ball out of something and want to cook it thoroughly, it needs time on a lower heat, otherwise the outer will be done and the inner raw or (rawish).....
Maybe try the other way round, cook them in the oil to crisp the outside, then finish off in a hot oven for the heat to penetrate deeper inside and cook thoroughly......
But either way, the vegetables or if only onions should be slightly crisp and not cooked all the way through for that wonderful crunch texture when biting into them....
I hope this helps..
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But either way, the vegetables or if only onions should be slightly crisp and not cooked all the way through for that wonderful crunch texture when biting into them....
I like the idea of using the oven as a workaround but this is definitely not what the BIR's do (as far as I am aware). I think frying then oven would be more likely to bring the best results.
I have to strongly disagree that they shouldn't be cooked all the way through. The best bhajis I have ever had have been crisp on the outside but melt in the mouth on the inside with no hint of undercooked onions, or even really much onion taste. Just a lovely soft fusion of fried flavours with a lovely light batter and a slightly greasy texture.
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I had a bit of a bhaji breakthrough last night. I had always worked on the basis that the thinker the batter the better, but really it seems the batter should be just thick enough to be able to hold the bhajis together. This seems to eliminate any cakiness from the finished results. I cooked them at around 140 degrees.
I also used a lot less spice than usual which meant they were able to cook a bit longer without browning too quickly.
The most important difference was slicing the onion and potato using the slicing side of the cheese grater. This gave super thin results that were almost transparent. The result of all these changes was well cooked bhajis, light golden brown in colour and not even a hint of raw onion in the taste. I think they could have used a bit more spicing which I'll work on next time. For me, they key was always going to be getting the cooking and texture right, the spices are now just about getting the right balance.
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chriswg , I made some Onion Bhajis last night and although they looked great fromt the out side the inside was ' mushy ' do you know what causes this. :(
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chriswg , I made some Onion Bhajis last night and although they looked great fromt the out side the inside was ' mushy ' do you know what causes this. :(
Hi EminJ,
That will almost certainly be not long enough in the pan. Incidently, both you and ChrisW, do you pan fry these or deep fry them?
Regards
Bob
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chriswg , I made some Onion Bhajis last night and although they looked great fromt the out side the inside was ' mushy ' do you know what causes this. :(
Hi EminJ,
That will almost certainly be not long enough in the pan. Incidently, both you and ChrisW, do you pan fry these or deep fry them?
Regards
Bob
Hi 976bar ,
I deep fry mine in the deep fat fryer and usually cook until light golden brown as they continue to colour once out of the fryer but I have not yet succeeded to get anywhere near BIR :'(
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chriswg , I made some Onion Bhajis last night and although they looked great fromt the out side the inside was ' mushy ' do you know what causes this. :(
Hi EminJ,
That will almost certainly be not long enough in the pan. Incidently, both you and ChrisW, do you pan fry these or deep fry them?
Regards
Bob
Hi 976bar ,
I deep fry mine in the deep fat fryer and usually cook until light golden brown as they continue to colour once out of the fryer but I have not yet succeeded to get anywhere near BIR :'(
It sounds to me a likely combination of things here.
It's either the batter mixture being too thick, the vegetable matter being too thick or the oil being too hot and giving the appearance that the outside is done, therefore the inside must be done.
What size are the bhajis you are trying to cook?
When I did my Indian Cookery course, they said to heat the oil, then drop a few drops of the batter mixture into the hot oil. If it sinks to the bottom and then comes back up to the surface quickly then the oil is ready. This was based upon 4cm balls being prepared. If you are making bhajis bigger than this then you will need to experiment, but I hope this helps :)
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Hi Emin
I deep fry mine in a saucepan, once the oil is cool I pour it back into the bottle for next time.
If you were following the same recipe I was, the chance are you were cooking at too high a temperature - 180 degrees according to the recipe. For me this is much too high and by the time the bhajis look right, they aren't cooked through. I do mine at around 140 - 150 degrees at which they take around 7 - 8 minutes to go a golden brown.
You also need to make sure the batter is reasonably thin to help avoid some mushiness. I thought my initial batter was too thin as when I cooked my first 2 bhajis the edges broke off and needed to be fished out. I added more gram flour to thicken it up, but when they were all done the first 2 were by far the nicest.
Also, if the recipe didn't mention it, always chuck in a tsp or 2 of baking powder a few minutes before cooking. This helps lighten everything.
I hope this helps.
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Hi chriswg,
I fry at 160 d and use a good pinch of baking soda but the soda makes them a little ' spongey ' I feel , I have found my best results mixing gram and plain flour .
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I think the spongeyness comes from the batter being too thick rather than the baking powder. Next time you make a batch try starting off with the batter as runny as possible so it still sticks to the onion and potato. As long as they stay together in the pan they will be good.
I've not tried using plain flour too but I'll put it on the long list of things to try!
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I'm still somewhat tickled by this thread :P
a) I am pretty sure that most BIRs do not add potato to their onion bhajis ::)
b) I am pretty sure that most BIRs do not grate their onions (or, indeed, their potatoes ::)) I think they simply finely slice them.
c) In my opinion, the onion bhaji mixture (i.e. primarily onions, gram flour and minimal spices) should be AS THICK as possible (not thin!). I (as someone else suggested to do) simmply add the ingredients (with no additional water) and leave the mixture, for a while, to allow the gram flour to absorb the moisture from the other ingredients.
d) Avoiding "sponginess in the middle", is, IMHO, primarily due to a typical BIR "dual cooking process". Pre-cook them (say, at 160C, for a couple of minutes), allow to cool, then fry them again, prior to serving.
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I'm still somewhat tickled by this thread :P
a) I am pretty sure that most BIRs do not add potato to their onion bhajis ::)
b) I am pretty sure that most BIRs do not grate their onions (or, indeed, their potatoes ::)) I think they simply finely slice them.
c) In my opinion, the onion bhaji mixture (i.e. primarily onions, gram flour and minimal spices) should be AS THICK as possible (not thin!). I (as someone else suggested to do) simmply add the ingredients (with no additional water) and leave the mixture, for a while, to allow the gram flour to absorb the moisture from the other ingredients.
d) Avoiding "sponginess in the middle", is, IMHO, primarily due to a typical BIR "dual cooking process". Pre-cook them (say, at 160C, for a couple of minutes), allow to cool, then fry them again, prior to serving.
I'll try the ' dual cooking ' process and see if that works , I try to make the Bhajis dryish as I have seen video of Bhaji's being rolled by hand then dropped into the hot fat , but they tend to be a bit too wet to roll by hand . We made Pakoras at the Cooking Class I did and that mix was quite dry , the Chef just picked up some mixture with his fingers and dropped it into the hot fat and they were very nice.
Whats the thinking behind the ' dual cooking ' process then.
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There was a video online a while ago showing general scenes from an Indian kitchen one of which was a chef putting onion bhajis in the fryer. I seem to remember it was quite a runny mix but I can't for the life of me find it again.
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Next time you make a batch try starting off with the batter as runny as possible so it still sticks to the onion and potato.
I make my batter the consistency of yoghurt and have repeatedly had good results with this approach.
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Hi Stephen
I agree, yoghurt consistency is probably a good example. I couldn't think of anything suitably runny, yet slightly thick.
Cory - I agree grating onion (and potato) would be silly. If you read my post I suggest using the slicing side of the grater to give thin consistent slices. I imagine the BIR's either use an electric slicer, or their chefs are suitably skilled to give the same results with a knife.
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Whats the thinking behind the ' dual cooking ' process then.
I would say twofold:
a) To allow the insides to continue to cook (by heat conduction) without burning the outsides
b) It's probably what many BIRs do to save time - i.e. have some precooked to be reheated to order
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I imagine the BIR's either use an electric slicer, or their chefs are suitably skilled to give the same results with a knife.
Do you really think that many will use an electric slicer Chris? Most are undoubtedly adequately deft and fast with a simple chef's knife. Either way, I've never really observed the onions being so finely sliced in any onion bhajis I've ever bought.
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Hi every one first off great site.
I've been experimenting with making my own curry for along time now but never made onion barji until a few weeks ago when I found a great asian cash and carry a few miles away.
I bought a kilo of Natco gram floor got home and discovered a recipe for onion barji on the pack and used it .The result was perfect and the best I have had for a while.
All I may of done extra was a little extra chilli powder,fresh corriander maybe ajust the water content if needed.
The recipe was as follows
2 Level cups Gram floor,
1 tsp Cumin seeds,
1 tbsp freshly chopped corriander leaves,
1 tsp salt
1/2 tsp Chilli powder
1/2 tsp bicarbonate of soda,
2 medium onions finely chopped,
Method mix all together with 1/4 pint of water set aside for 5mins and away you go.
I hope this helps.
P.S just started cooking abase mix from your site smells great going to use at weekend for my first curry night for 8 people!
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All I may of done extra was a little extra chilli powder,fresh corriander
1 tbsp freshly chopped corriander leaves,
Thank you for the recipe. Is the stated quantity of 1tbsp before or after any changes you made? Indeed, does the Natco recipe include any fresh coriander?
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The recipe on the pack of floor stated one tbsp but I will of put more in only because I like the taste and smell, and Im not good with sticking to quantitys!
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try and make the recipe i posted on here, its from the ashoka in Glasgow and i made them in the kitchen with the chef as i had a cooking lesson which was fab
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try and make the recipe i posted on here, its from the ashoka in Glasgow and i made them in the kitchen with the chef as i had a cooking lesson which was fab
On here? Where, please? I looked through this thread and in the starters/side dishes section and can't find your recipe, which I'm keen to see.
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goto the below mate
Starters & Side Dishes > Starters & Side Dishes > Bhajis (Onion, Pakora, Mushroom, Vegetable, etc (Moderator: Cory Ander) > Topic: Amazing Onion Bhaji
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here you go mate
Ingredients
140g gram flour
1tsp salt
1tsp ground cumin
1tsp ground turmeric
1tsp bicarbonate of soda
1/2tsp chilli powder
2tsp lemon juice
2tbsp vegetable or groundnut oil, plus enough for deep-frying
2-8tbsp water
2 onions, thinly sliced
2tsp coriander seeds, lightly crushed
Method
Sift the gram flour, salt, cumin, turmeric, bicarbonate of soda and chilli powder into a large bowl. Mix in the lemon juice and oil and then very gradually stir in just enough water to form a batter with a similar consistency to that of single cream. Now mix in the onions and the crushed coriander seeds.
Heat enough oil for deep-frying in a wok or deep-fat fryer until it reaches 180C or until a cube of bread browns in 30 seconds. Without overcrowding the pan, drop in spoonfuls of the onion mixture and fry for 2 minutes. Then use tongs to flip the bhajis over and continue frying for a further 2 minutes or until golden brown.
Immediately remove the bhajis from the oil and drain well on kitchen paper. Fry the remaining batches of bhajis and serve with chutney or pakora sauce
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incorporate a tbl,spoon of yoghurt into the batter mix also a little baking powder and leave it in a warm place to prove just like bread 4/5 hrs ideal then add whatever you like to the dough deep fry and they will turn out crisp on the outside cooked through in the middle
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les-paul,
interesting. i presume u need to add both yogurt and baking powder - i guess for some kind of reaction. i ask as i have used same in naan and of coarse is totally different hence my interest in what makes it work here. how did u come by the idea.
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found this on youtube Onion Bhajis (حلال) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoP6pGvoHvM&feature=related#normal)
she squashes them half way through cooking, i know some places sell them this way, but guess we could omit that part.
the bhajis look very good
just thought id add some more fuel to the fights going on in here hehe.