Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => BIR Main Dishes Chat => Topic started by: Garnett on July 27, 2009, 05:01 PM
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I appreciate that a spice mix and some preprepared base suace is pretty fundamental for true BIR results but for me it's impractical and so I want to try and experiment to produce the most BIR-like curry I can in under an hour without any preprepared ingredients. And with that in mind the other day I attempted...
45 Min Chicken Madras Experiment 1
Aim
To produce a Chicken Madras without any prepreparartion using a easily repeatable method.
Objectives
A thick sauce
A complex, spicy yet not over-hot taste
Method
Chicken
The chicken will be cooked separately to the sauce using the method described in Bruce Edwards' Curry House Cookery:-
Add about 5 oz of oil to a 4 litre cooking pot
Heat
Add two or three handfuls of finely chopped onions (to give a "layer" in the pot)
Add plenty of bay leaves (or curry leaves)
Add 3 or 4 peices of cinnamon
Add 5 or 6 Cardamoms
When Onion shows sgns of frying add tablespoon of garlic and ginger puree
Stir
Add tablespoon of yoghurt
Add half a tablespoon of tomato puree
Add 3 or 4 pinches of salt
Ingredients should be getting quite dry
Add half cup of water
Add rounded tablespoon of Rajah Hot Madras Curry powder
Add Chicken
Cover pot
Leave for 20 minutes
Serve
15 mins before the chicken is ready begin sauce
Sauce method
A mix of "Madras Curry" method from the book "Curry - Fabulous dishes from around the world" and "Kid Curry's Madras - with no base! (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3098.msg27428#msg27428)" from CR0
Heat oil in saucepan
Add rounded teaspoon garlic paste and same of ginger paste
Fry 2 minutes
Add 2 onions finely chopped/blended
Add 2 pinches salt
Fry 5 mins
Add rounded tablespoon of Rajah Hot Madras Curry powder
Stir
Add Tomato puree and or blended tomato
Cook for 8 mins adding coconut milk to taste/thickness.
Variations in method:
Chicken
Cooked chicken for 10 mins longer than should have
Sauce
Only used 1.5 onions. 2 was clearly going to be too much.
Added half a tin of tomato puree, no blended tomato
Added approx half tin of coconut milk towards end of cooking
Results
Chicken was perfect.
Sauce was too light in colour. Should have been redder. Spice level good. Taste very good but not BIR. Sauce too "bitty" - needs to be blended finely perhaps.
Conclusions
Possibly need to add less madras mix, and more paprika, chilli powder and/or tomato puree/blended tomatoes to attain correct redness.
CAN ANYONE MAKE ANY SUGGESTIONS ABOUT HOW TO PRODUCE A REDDER, LESS "BITTY" SAUCE?
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Hi,
I'm no expert around here but by adding coconut milk and yoghurt I don't think you'll ever get the right colour for a madras.
I reckon you might be able to substitute a full base by gently frying some onions until soft then adding water and tomatoes and boiling for a while - you would still have to liquidise to get the smoothness you are looking for, but a hand blender would easy do the job.
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I used to make a 10 minute Madras by frying some garlic paste and tomato pur?e and adding some Madras powder. I would add the chicken and fry it for 5 minutes before adding some chopped tomatoes (blended ideally) and water to get a sauce. One it was bubbling away it would be ready to eat. It was actually pretty good for a quick tea.
When you say using a base is impractical, what do you mean exactly? do you never have a few hours free to knock one up? All you need is a big stock pot and a few hours free. Once it is made you can put it in Tupperware dishes and freeze. Even for an impromptu curry you should easily be able to make one in under 45 minutes using a defrosted microwave base. It would be just as simple as the recipe you described. Also, if you forget all that hassle with the chicken cooking and just boil some in cumin for 5 minutes it would probably end up being a lot easier.
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Yes, I think what's "impractical" is going through all that bother (45 mins) to make a Madras.
Using the base sauce method I can knock one up in less than 10 minutes served on a plate.
The base method is a must, especially if what you're truly after is a BIR Madras.
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Anyone ever thought of trying a can of Soup as the base ? All sorts of Soups available nowadays ,checkout the ingredients in a tin of vegetable Soup I think it's got most of what we put in a base other than Spices. It would make a very convenient base if it worked :) might need to run it through the blender for a minute tho first.
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The chicken takes 25-30 mins and I plan to have the sauce done at/in the same time.
As I said, "I appreciate that a spice mix and some preprepared base sauce is pretty fundamental for true BIR results but for me it's impractical". We have very little freezer space which makes the making and freezing of a base isn't that practical.
PaulP - I could be wrong but I can't see how t he yoghurt in the chicken pot would make too much difference to the sauce colour. I could certainly try it without.
Chriswg - The reason I like to do the sauce and chicken separately is because to boil te chicken I imagine a sauce thinner than I like or get from a BIR. Is there a way round this?
Joshallen2k - I appreciate what you're saying - I really do, and I had hoped I'd stressed due deference to the 'Base' notion. I'm happy with the taste of my baseless recipe but just want help with the consistency and the colour - are these aspects solved by using a base?
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Joshallen2k - I appreciate what you're saying - I really do, and I had hoped I'd stressed due deference to the 'Base' notion. I'm happy with the taste of my baseless recipe but just want help with the consistency and the colour - are these aspects solved by using a base?
Well I definitely think it would help with the "bitty" observation, as the base method uses a blender to puree the onion mix down to more of a soup consistency...
As for colour, one thing to do is to start experimenting with chilli powders. For e.g., in a Madras when I use Kashmiri Mirch it does tend to be redder than standard chilli.
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Anyone ever thought of trying a can of Soup as the base ?
It's been brought up a few times over the years and I've definitely considered it but never got around to actually doing it. Having made SnS's base again recently, I'm convinced that a tin of tomato soup (not cream of...) would work well, as SnS's base tastes just like a spicy tomato soup to me.
So...1 can of tomato soup, some jarred garlic and ginger, a few of the usual spices and possibly some form of pre-cooked pureed onions (any suggestions for commercial ones?), and I think you've got yourself the easiest base in the world!
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Garnett,
1st put the chicken to one side. focus on getting the sauce right to start with.
the KC recipe is the place to start for sure. since i made the KC i've made onion paste - 2 ways - course onion and blended. for this i'd go with blended onion. for me then the KC curry recipe is your starting point. i'd be wary of the amount of ginger but the rest (garlic, salt, spice mix, chilli powder, tom puree) are the curry essentials.
don't worry on the onion front - more is better (just add water if gets too thick).
as for the redness - for me the spice mix must have paprika in it or add it separately (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2444.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2444.0)). i also add passata or sieved tin toms.
for the chicken i'd keep simple - use the ashoka "marinade". http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.10
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.10)
for coconut i'd try the block. i'd also move your whole spices from the chicken to the curry.
best wishes & very brave
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http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2237.msg18954#msg18954
That was a while ago.
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Anyone ever thought of trying a can of Soup as the base ?
It's been brought up a few times over the years and I've definitely considered it but never got around to actually doing it. Having made SnS's base again recently, I'm convinced that a tin of tomato soup (not cream of...) would work well, as SnS's base tastes just like a spicy tomato soup to me.
So...1 can of tomato soup, some jarred garlic and ginger, a few of the usual spices and possibly some form of pre-cooked pureed onions (any suggestions for commercial ones?), and I think you've got yourself the easiest base in the world!
Sounds good SS , what about this for the Onion http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/onion-powder--ground-onion-powder-75g-1813-p.asp
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Sounds good SS , what about this for the Onion http://www.theasiancookshop.co.uk/onion-powder--ground-onion-powder-75g-1813-p.asp
Nice! I didn't even consider powdered onion. That would make it more BIR perhaps...definitely worth a punt.
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for coconut i'd try the block.
I most definitely wouldn't! The only place coconut block should be used is in a BIR base. Now, given that this is being made from scratch, and we're trying to get it done as quickly as possible, surely coconut flour is the best thing to use (and that's assuming coconut in a madras is appropriate anyhow!)?
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well spotted Secret Santa,
i should have added that the block comment was aimed at an optional base ingredient and should therefore only be a small amount. i use sugar lump size ~10mm cube (25g) in 800g onion. for adding coconut to a dish then the flour is best for me (and BIR practise for sure). there is disagreement across the family between block & flour in a dish though and i end up making 2 off versions of the same dish.
i'd also add fresh coriander to the list of curry essentials to go in during the cooking (i use in both base & dish).
rev 2 - sugar lump size should have been big lump 25mm not 10mm. i buy a 200g pack and divide into 8 portions 25g ea and whilst cutting it up today realised the error.
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Hi Garnett,
You might like to try some or all of the following suggestions:
To Make Redder:
- replace some (or all) of the tinned toms with tomato paste (rather than puree) and fry with the curry powder
- add paprika (and/or chili powder) with the curry powder
- replace coconut milk with coconut powder (or block, if you prefer)
To Make Less Bitty:
- preferably blend the "sauce" when cooked, or
- replace some (or all) of onions with onion powder in the "sauce"
Other Comments:
- I wouldn't bother precooking the chicken (you could cook this in half the time then)
- "BIR madras without a base" is an oxymoron, as you know (though you are effectively making a base - "sauce" - here)
- If you really want to whack a madras out quickly, why not simply quickly fry (i.e. seal) the chicken and add Pataks (or other make) Madras Cooking Sauce (which is all your "sauce" preparation done for you)? You could cook this in under 10 minutes then!
Pataks Madras Cooking Sauce Ingredients:
- Water
- Tomato (21%)
- Onion (12%)
- Vegetable Oil
- Spices (Contains Mustard)
- Coriander
- Modified Maize Starch
- Concentrated Tomato Puree
- Dried Onion
- Sugar
- Lemon Juice
- Cumin
- Chilli
- Salt
- Garlic
Colour:
- Caramel; Acetic Acid
- Ginger
- Mustard Seeds
- Dried Coriander Leaf
- Curry Leaf
- Cumin Seeds.
Hmmmmm, lemon juice in a madras! ;)
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Hmmmmm, lemon juice in a madras! ;)
Grrrrr!
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Thanks for the replies. I like the idea of powdered onion and paprika. I reckon between them that should sort me out.