Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: haldi on July 22, 2009, 09:22 AM
-
Old Oil Curry Gravy & Veg Vindaloo
I have finally made a curry that I am 100% happy with, and I know I could do this exactly again
Here is how it happened: -
Last night, I went out to get some old oil
I was lucky at the first place I called
It was a kebab/KFC style/chip shop
I had an empty one and a half litre container, and asked for some old oil
Happily I was given all I could take, and charged nothing
They wouldn?t accept any money
This oil was really dark, almost black
But it didn?t smell bad
It had a used savoury smell, with no outstanding qualities
Now the mistake I have been making, is to create a curry base with too many spices, but still lacking a subtle but wonderful flavour
In short, this is what we have been describing as the ?taste?
Despite numerous demonstrations, and posts from other people, something was definitely missing.
I respect other people?s views, so those who have achieved their desired curry taste, I say well done.
But until tonight I hadn?t been satisfied
So, now was the easy part
I simply followed a scaled down base recipe, and curry I had seen made
I?ll bore you with the details, but exact quantities are unnecessary
Take ten small onions and roughly chop them
Place in a pot with half the onion?s volume in water
Add 1 peeled garlic clove, 1 rounded teaspoon of salt, 2 level teaspoon of turmeric, one rounded teaspoon of spice mix, and half a tomato
Simmer this for an hour, checking that nothing catches.
Then add 4 desert spoons of old oil, along with the same quantity of new oil
As soon as I had done that, there was an aroma I recognised
BIR magic!
Simmer this pot, on very low, for another two hours, with the lid on
Keep checking, that nothing sticks
After the two hours turn off and leave to ?settle?
Now, scoop as much of the oil out
Blend the onions finely and add about a third of it?s volume in cold water
Simmer this for about an hour until some of the oil separates out
This improves the base flavour
Ok, so now the base is made
Here is the curry I made
It?s a veg vindaloo
(I?m sure that I have posted this recipe before)
This undermines another idea I had
You don?t need to do a fancy precook ingredients, if your curry gravy is right
I just used frozen veg and a left over baked potato (sliced)
I?ve seen BIR?s use frozen and canned veg many times, with no detriment to the finished curry taste
Boiled chicken pieces with turmeric and salt would also do for a precooked ingredient
Heat two tablespoons of salvaged oil for a minute
Add one and a half tablespoons of tomato puree and spread around the pan
Add a pinch of cumin, a pinch of coriander, half a teaspoon of salt and a pinch of dried fenugreek
Stir for another minute
Add two ladles of the curry gravy, and the main ingredients and turn the heat up high for about two minutes
Add a desert spoon of spice mix and cook another two minutes
Add half a desert spoon of tomato puree
Add a little water and another ladle of curry gravy and boil hard for another five minutes.
You may need to add a little more curry gravy or water, to get the right texture.
Serve
Without correct curry gravy this recipe won?t work
You will just have a ?nice? curry
Also, remember that this is a copy, of a certain restaurants base and curry
It?s probable that your local is slightly different
But this shows you how to get that missing underlying flavour
I believe that it is illegal for takeaways/restaurants to dispose of old oil by pouring down the drain.
Someone official comes round and collects it
So if you wanted to get old oil then find somewhere that cooks chips and fried chicken, but not curries
If they made curries, they would be using the old oil themselves
Make sure they don?t cook fish in it
I?ve tried oil like that, and it?s a disgusting result
You cannot make used oil like this
The quantities of chips, fried chicken cooked in it, are simply not practical
Believe me, I have tried
But it should always be possible to get this oil
Places simply want to get rid of the stuff!
I have enough old oil in my freezer, to probably last a year!
The curry gravy is where nearly all the ?technique? lies, and I made it exactly
However, I would add, that I seriously doubt the hygiene and safety of cooking like this
It?s enough to make you cook home-style curries, isn?t it?
I feel so happy at achieving the last hurdle, and yet, a little sad the journey has ended.
-
never in a million years would i have put the missing taste down to festering old oil. ;D i will have to try this to see if its the taste i am looking for. bit sceptical at the moment though.
-
Haldi I don't doubt that the old oil plays a huge part in getting the old fashioned curry taste but what confuses me is that you are using old oil from a kebab shop? Are you implying that the BIRs used to cook fried chicken etc. in their oil?
-
Hi Haldi,
Very interesting! I too am very surprised that the oil is (presumably) not that which has been infused with the colour, flavour and aroma of typical BIR spices!
-
It would be great if somebody else could do the same test - though I'm not sure I would want to try the festering oil myself.
I do think Haldi maybe onto something though.
It would be a bit sad if this was the missing 5%!
-
Interesting post Haldi.
If the oil you used was not infused with BIR spices, why is it not possible that old (well used) oil from a deep fat fryer at home (infused with BIR spices), could be salvaged and re-used to give the same results? :-\
-
Hi Haldi
I'm quite new to this forum and to the BIR at home scene, but I also find this hard to believe. If the end result is 100% BIR then that's fantastic but there must be another reason for it. I don't imagine every Indian restaurant goes around to local takeaways asking for leftover chip oil.
It would be interesting to see what type of oil they were using. Commercial oil although dreadfully bad for you from a saturates point of view, does give food a really good taste. For example, I would say it is impossible to replicate a Chip Shop portion of chips at home even though all they use is chopped up Maris Piper potatoes. Maybe the breakthrough wasn't the fact it was old oil, maybe it was just commercial grade saturated / trans fat. Probably the same stuff most of the BIR's use...
I saw a good program about it a while ago, the clip that is most relevant is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfFEBlSD7LU
It is worth investigating and would tie up an awful lot of loose ends, the biggest of which being why cant BIR chefs replicate a BIR curry at home. the answer could be in the oil.
Well spotted Haldi, it could be a breakthrough for everyone if it proves to be true. It would be brilliant if you could find out the type of oil they use. A picture of the container would be extremely useful.
-
I do believe that Haldi is on to something here, although I too am struggling with the idea of oil from fried chicken and chips, I have tried the same myself, it did change the flavour but not to what I was hoping for, however I do know that oil from cooking a shed load of bhajis goes into some restaurant bases, this really does give "the taste" for me,
The BIR kitchens I have been into use either KTC veg oil or Pride veg oil,(rapeseed oil and anti-foaming agent)
The BIR kitchens I have been into that don't have the taste have not added old bhaji oil to the base,
-
Are you implying that the BIRs used to cook fried chicken etc. in their oil?
Mainly chips
Hi Haldi,
Very interesting! I too am very surprised that the oil is (presumably) not that which has been infused with the colour, flavour and aroma of typical BIR spices!
The missing flavour is not any spice, that's why it was so hard to pin down
Interesting post Haldi.
If the oil you used was not infused with BIR spices, why is it not possible that old (well used) oil from a deep fat fryer at home (infused with BIR spices), could be salvaged and re-used to give the same results? :-\
Yes it might be possible but you would need to put through a tremendous amount of fried food
I don't imagine every Indian restaurant goes around to local takeaways asking for leftover chip oil.
That's not what I am saying
I am saying it's their own old oil that goes into the gravy
-
Haldi, are you saying NOT to use oil that has been used for bhajis? Just chips and chicken?
-
Well it definitely works for my onion bhajis. I always save the oil and reuse it next time. Its only done 60 - 70 bhajis but it has gone a dark colour and smells lovely. Personally I think the bhajis get most of their flavour from the old oil.
The next time I make up a batch of base I'll use it and see if it makes a difference. it might be that it hasn't been used enough but I would expect to see some change in the taste for better or worse.
-
Well it definitely works for my onion bhajis. I always save the oil and reuse it next time. Its only done 60 - 70 bhajis but it has gone a dark colour and smells lovely. Personally I think the bhajis get most of their flavour from the old oil.
The next time I make up a batch of base I'll use it and see if it makes a difference. it might be that it hasn't been used enough but I would expect to see some change in the taste for better or worse.
Chris ,
This is what I'm talking about, the dark colour and flavour coming from the burning of debris(little bits and pieces of onion,gram flour and spices) from the bhajis,just filter the debris from the oil through kitchen paper or a coffee filter, it may not give the taste and flavour that you may be searching for, as "the taste" that people talk about seems difficult to describe and pin down, but it works for me,
Bob
-
Haldi,
congratulations. i've felt your pain along what's been a torturous route for u. well chuffed for u.
does this mean my LFC recipe might get some action. ;D
-
hi haldi congratulations after all your hard work you deserve it mate :D, it has to come to and end sometime at least you can enjoy paying a visit to the kebab shop for their free oil :D. have been making progress with the chefs at mouchak and they are more than willing to help me out, got a feeling i may get the opportunity to get to see their base made from start to finish, they do it in 2 parts!
anyway pete this is your HOLY GRAIL
happy BIRing
regards
gary :)
-
Haldi, are you saying NOT to use oil that has been used for bhajis? Just chips and chicken?
From what I have seen, the main thing cooked in most places is chips, chips and more chips.
Bhajees & samosas and chicken too but not anything like the quantity of chips.
I think the main thing is that the oil is well used
This means after it's cooked in the curry gravy, you can cook on high without burning anything.
It's smoking point is drastically reduced.
I have watched chefs cooking curries and it's always in this unhurried fashion.
Whenever I tried to duplicate this at home, things burnt easily
Especialy garlic and tomato puree.
The only way to get a BIR result, is to follow their cooking style.
Anyone who has been in a BIR kitchen will have seen the pot of curry gravy.
The oil on top is really dark
Far darker than boiling fresh oil with onions and spices
Thanks Jerry and Gary for your comments
-
I did post on a similar thread about a Chinese T/A my family used for a few years and their food was delicious ,we all tried to replicate ' the taste ' of this Chinese food but never could ,me and the kids were talking about the different foods we had from the T/A and how they all had this certain delicious flavour , then it came to me :o even the Chips had this special flavour so I believe it must have come from the oil ( oil flavoured by countless meals cooked in it ) I did try cooking a Madras using the oil from the deep fat fryer that had cooked Chips and Bhaji's for a few weeks but it didn't really improve the flavour of the Curry :( well done haldi ;)
-
Thanks Haldi.
I have a deep fryer at home that I use for chips, wings and the like (with the odd Bhaji) but I normally change the oil after five uses or so, or right away if I fry fish.
I will resist changing it now until its really dark and give this a go. I will avoid fish for the time being.
Really hope this works out! Appreciate feedback from others who give this method a go.
-- Josh
-
Well done Haldi
I have oil from the deep fat fryer that has been used only for Bhajis. Only cooked five batches, so no where near ready for use in the base or curry. From now on, will cook everything in it except fish and hopefully get the same results as you.
-
Hi all
Haldi me thinks you have nailed it. ;) A long time ago, I had a whisky filled conversation with an Indian restaurant owner/chef after the restaurant had closed who also liked his whisky, about Indian restaurant cooking and the elusive "secret ingredient".
We were sitting in the kitchen and after looking around I basically said, I have more spices in my kitchen than you have in the restaurant so I know the "S I" is not a spice, what is it that gives the food that wonderful smell and taste?
His reply after waffling for a while about the smells on the walls the furniture etc, which I said I wasn't buying into, was....
Burnt Oil....They use it in the gravy (he wouldn't call it a base sauce)
and in the curry dishes.
I don't know (can't remember a lot that night ::)) if they used the oil from pakoras and bhajis but remember him saying that they changed the oil for them quite regularly as it would make them to dark. He liked them a golden colour.
I wish I had elaborated on the acquisition and the use of the burnt oil now.
-
Burnt Oil....They use it in the gravy (he wouldn't call it a base sauce)
and in the curry dishes.
I don't know (can't remember a lot that night ::)) if they used the oil from pakoras and bhajis but remember him saying that they changed the oil for them quite regularly as it would make them to dark. He liked them a golden colour.
I wish I had elaborated on the acquisition and the use of the burnt oil now.
I'm sure you are right
And quite why this improves it so much, is beyond me
On it's own, the old oil, smells and tastes, as you might expect.
But when added, to the cooking base, its truly remarkable
After the base is cooked and the oil has been seperated, you can cook with it.
The aroma of it heating in the pan is stunning
Anyone who has had a BIR demo will recognise this immediately
And of course some of the oil is in the blended base
Well done Haldi
I have oil from the deep fat fryer that has been used only for Bhajis. Only cooked five batches, so no where near ready for use in the base or curry. From now on, will cook everything in it except fish and hopefully get the same results as you.
Hi QPR
My first attempt at this was oil from a chip shop
It was really digusting
It gave a horrible aroma
So definitely no fish in the oil
I am concerned that achieving the "taste" may be extremely unhealthy
I guess anything in moderation is ok?
-
Hi Guys,
Whenever I make a base sauce/gravy, I never seem to get the oil to separate from the base, can anybody tell me why please? So I never end up with any spare oil to cook with.
Am I not cooking it for long enough? Do I not have it hot enough?
Any help would really be appreciated. :)
-
Hi 976bar,
I think it is important to use plenty of oil in the first place, I use about 500ml to which I add the spices and fry for a couple of minutes before adding in all the onions and veg and water. I simmered for an hour then blended. I then simmered for another 2 - 3 hours. I didn't notice very much separation for the first 2 hours, then it came through quite well. I still only probably got 100ml back but this was more than enough to cook with.
I hope this helps.
-
I am concerned that achieving the "taste" may be extremely unhealthy
Hehe maybe that's why the chefs are not forthcoming with the secret ingredient :o
They also made their own pastes that they used as a mix and match to achieve the desired taste with different meals, a bit of this and a some of that. They never used brand curry powder but they made a spice mix for either bhuna dishes or rogan josh??? wish I could remember. Pataks Tandoori and tikka pastes were used for marinading along with some other spices they added to enhance the flavour of the tandoori dishes.
-
the end of the road is nearly here. the bir holy grail has been revealled to us all. dream on guys !! ever get that feeling of de ja vu !! ;D ;D ;D
-
the end of the road is nearly here. the bir holy grail has been revealled to us all. dream on guys !! ever get that feeling of de ja vu !! ;D ;D ;D
The difference being (for me anyway) is that I know we can place great credence on Haldi's deductions. I know he's worked long and hard (much more so than most) on determining the reason for that missing "taste" and "smell" of a decent BIR curry. I'll certainly be trying it (my boys are getting me used oil as I speak...they work in a fast food chicken outlet)...I only hope Haldi is right (he deserves to be!)! 8)
I've also got oil, in my deep fat fryer, that I've used to make about 100 onion bhajis...plus chips, etc...I'll be trying that as well.
-
You cook chips in Onion Bhaji oil? Do they taste spicy?
-
You cook chips in Onion Bhaji oil? Do they taste spicy?
I do and they are turmeric yellow ;D
-
Haldi,
how did u arrive at using 50:50 burnt and new oil. the total amount of oil in the base at 80ml suggests there's not much for cooking - have u tried adding extra (for reclaim) and does it still work.
976bar,
oil reclaim info http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2684.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2684.0)
-
Haldi,
how did u arrive at using 50:50 burnt and new oil. the total amount of oil in the base at 80ml suggests there's not much for cooking - have u tried adding extra (for reclaim) and does it still work.
I've seen a base made up, using fresh and old oil from the top of another curry gravy pot
I felt I should be cautious with the new ingedient too
I made another curry last night
Absolutely perfect
The aroma and flavour
This makes me so pleased, because now I can backtrack on all the demos I've seen and do them right
Even simple curries like korma and madras, will work
-
Haldi,
many thanks. the back tracking sounds like being very useful to use all.
i'm making base next week and have burnt oil to hand in my 2nd fryer (used for chicken & bhajis). it's pretty black and sounds exactly what u describe. interesting the comment on the chips as our other fryer is used only for chips but the oil never gets black like the 2nd fryer.
my current focus is on recipe refinement and consistency so i'm not really sure what effect the blackened oil will have - nevertheless i feel it's a must try. i'll used the adapted CR02 base so i can be sure on what the effect is.
-
I made another curry last night
haldi , which Curry recipe do you use please .
-
I made another curry last night
haldi , which Curry recipe do you use please .
I made a similar curry to the first time but added 2 teaspoons of chilli with the spice mix
-
Well done Haldi! I can't wait to try this. If at all possible, a picture of your used oil would be very helpful. Did you target a take away that didn't make fish, or do they all use a separate fryer for fish and you asked for the chip fryer oil? What kind of take away do you suggest that we approach?
I must say, I always thought the missing taste would be something filth related ;D. I can really imagine it's used oil doing the trick. Although all the small food particles in the oil have been fried and fried, tyey will have been sealed on the outside by the hot oil. Boiling the oil up in the base sauce will release all of that sealed in fried tastiness. This could explain why the oil doesn't smell of much until used in base sauce.
I'm really excited about this breakthrough. Once Haldi manages to post his advice on acquiring the right kind of used oil then I'll go and try to get some. The chip shop near me serves fish so I think perhaps I should try elsewhere.
Once I have the oil, I'm tempted to try a very minimal curry session. A basic minimally spiced base with just onion, tomato, garlic, ginger, turmeric, cumin, coriander powder and paprika (all spices used sparingly, E.G. 2 dsrt spoons total) and a BE style curry with just 1 tsp spice mix. Really looking forward to it!
Congratulations on your obsessive hard work finally paying off Haldi! ;D Well deserved! If anyone was going to get there it was going to be you!
As far as your health concerns go, I wouldn't worry too much. As long as your only getting a few tbsps a couple of times a week it'll be fine. I imagine saturated fat would be worse for you. Just try not get the oil smoking when you cook with it because as I'm sure you know, that makes it more carcinogenic. That's the only concern really. Any microbes in there would be dead instantly at that temp! The stuff's probably sterile!
Does the darker oil effect the colour of your base and/or curry?
Cheers,
BB.
-
You are the dogs ba**s
I always knew you were going to crack it because you always think simplicity and not thinking extra money on some missing product or cooking style etc
Ive already posted about AGED oil, of course its the missing SOMETHING because the restaurants dont need to spend extra money buying it in , they already have it, they learned this BY ACCIDENT.
ALL chinese restaurants do this too, change oil only when rancid, thats why your local tastes crap when they dump the too old rancid oil and use new. END OF Story as far as Im concerned.
-
What kind of take away do you suggest that we approach?
The chip shop near me serves fish so I think perhaps I should try elsewhere.
Once I have the oil, I'm tempted to try a very minimal curry session. A basic minimally spiced base with just onion, tomato, garlic, ginger, turmeric, cumin, coriander powder and paprika
As far as your health concerns go, I wouldn't worry too much. As long as your only getting a few tbsps a couple of times a week it'll be fine. I imagine saturated fat would be worse for you. Just try not get the oil smoking when you cook with it because as I'm sure you know, that makes it more carcinogenic. That's the only concern really. Any microbes in there would be dead instantly at that temp! The stuff's probably sterile!
Does the darker oil effect the colour of your base and/or curry?
BB.
Hi Bobby, the oil you need to use is the old oil from frying chips and/or chicken.
I went to a kebab shop
Any oil from a fish and chip shop would not be suitable, I tried that first and it smelt and tasted horrible
When you have it, you are right, make a simple base with not much spice
The main flavour comes from the oil
Perhaps I overreacted over health concerns
At one demo a chef told me that they heat the curry on full gas for five minutes to kill any bacteria
Perhaps it was because of using old oil, or maybe the base was old.
Either way, it's probably good practice.
As far as pictures go, I don't seem to be able to upload them to this site at the moment.
But the oil is very dark
END OF Story as far as Im concerned.
Yes Paul, I completely agree
-
You can understand why its a well kept secret too. No chef would ever broadcast the fact that they use weeks old fryer oil in all of their main courses. It also probably explains the occasional bout of Delhi Belly which must be from the oil not being cooked for long enough to kill off the bacteria.
When I was at school our tuck shop sold the most amazing bacon rolls which as far as I could tell were just fried in a pan. I asked for months what her secret was. Eventually she told me she uses the same oil in the frying pan all term. At the end of the day it was just left on the hob to go cold, then fired up the next day. Pretty gross when you think about it, but the results were absolutely worth it.
-
END OF Story as far as Im concerned.
Yes Paul, I completely agree
[/quote]
I don't think it's the "END of story" until several people (at least!) have verified these results and packaged it in such a way as all members are able to reproduce it :P
I have great respect for Haldi's efforts and opinions, but this verification still needs to be done.
Who has verified this result please?
-
I haven't been able to verify it yet, but hope to soon.
Around here no one seems to want to give me any oil. They look at me like I'm the food inspector. There aren't any chippies around anyway. The closest I've found are KFC's.
So I've been making chips in my home deep fryer like mad to get the oil where Haldi specifies (almost black), but its a slow slog. My oil definitely smells used, but the colour is still light yellow. Long way to go I think...
Hope that someone else is able to try it in the meantime.
-- Josh
-
I had a similar response to Josh, one place the guy just starred at me like I was from another planet and another one told me, in no uncertain terms, that they don't use old oil only fresh and kept pointing to a food hygiene certificate on the wall (I don't think I'll be too welcome back there for a while).
::) ::) ::)
Regards
CoR
-
I had a similar response to Josh, one place the guy just starred at me like I was from another planet and another one told me, in no uncertain terms, that they don't use old oil only fresh and kept pointing to a food hygiene certificate on the wall (I don't think I'll be too welcome back there for a while).
Regards
CoR
Round here (East Midlands) it's not that unusual to ask for
Apparently people use it as a source of fuel
The closest I've found are KFC's.
-- Josh
I think that KFC would be fine
Chips and chicken oil is what you want
The oil should look almost the colour of coca cola
-
How would you go about ' preserving ' the used oil as you only need a small amount in a base compared to how much you would get from a home deep fat fryer .
-
Haldi - quick question (while I continue to live off chips and chicken wings as my home oil matures...)
How do you believe the used oil differs fundamentally from using reclaimed oil from the base or curry?
I know many of us (myself included) went through a phase of using reclaimed oil with varying amounts of success.
Just wondering what the fundamental difference is in your view.
-- Josh
-
How would you go about ' preserving ' the used oil as you only need a small amount in a base compared to how much you would get from a home deep fat fryer .
I freeze it
It turns thick,and you can scoop out how many spoons you want
How do you believe the used oil differs fundamentally from using reclaimed oil from the base or curry?
-- Josh
It is like adding a stock, instead of adding something with similar qualities to the base
-
It is like adding a stock, instead of adding something with similar qualities to the base
This is at the back of my mind. i use curry gravy oil and appreciative of the previous discussion don't wish to say anymore. however prior to Haldi's post i was sorted on how my basic curry tastes and see only a need for recipe refinement. i'm thinking that i won't filter the used oil - just decant carefully as i'm currently unsure whether the effect Haldi is seeing is down to something dissolved ie in the oil or down to fine debris.
i'm hoping to make base Wednesday (with the black stuff).
-
I don't think it's the "END of story" until several people (at least!) have verified these results and packaged it in such a way as all members are able to reproduce it :P
Yes, I agree CA. I'm glad that it has worked for Haldi, and I definitely believe that used oil is a big part, if not all, of the answer. The one thing that's bugging me though is whether Haldi's idea of the "taste and smell" is the same as everyone elses.
I not getting my hopes up just yet!
-
Round here (East Midlands) it's not that unusual to ask for
Apparently people use it as a source of fuel
It worries me that you don't know what the hell has happened to that oil since it was taken from the frier. After all, as far as the kebab shop is concerned, that oil is done with. Who knows what unclean vessels it's been stored in and what other contaminants may be in it!
-
It worries me a lot SS about using worn-out oil - I really don't think it is healthy as the cheapish veggie oil we all use can change into something pretty toxic through repeated and long frying sessions.
I'm still very interested in the outcome of all this. If it really is the missing link or last 5% I would be a bit disappointed but pleased to know "the truth".
If that is really what it takes I'll have to make do with my present 85 to 90 percent BIR taste and forgoe the rest.
Credit to you guys for trying to nail it down though!
-
Secret Santa,
it's not the end for me - we need to refine some of our recipes yet and even then i don't feel we will ever reach an end point. it's funny but i feel i've travelled far but yet still have much to travel. i've never come across cooking like it.
part of me says this will make no difference - how can it possibly improve on what i'm already producing. but of course having listened and adopted what Haldi says the rest of me says yes, yes, yes. i'll know tomorrow night for sure.
in terms of producing the oil i really believe i have the exact stuff in my 2nd fryer. all everyone will need is to buy an extra fryer and cook fried chicken and bhajis in it!
-
PaulP,
i too am very health conscious and have regular medical check for many years at my own request (cholesterol which i don't have much of). i'm very mindful of everthing in moderation. you are right to look out for those things that could have a disproportionate detrimental affect on heath. we that being the family cook regular in the black oil in my 2nd fryer. i know that does not answer your question but i don't really think it can be answered yet ie is it worth it. i'll know tomorrow.
-
I would have to agree with SS. You really do need to know how this "spent" oil has been stored.
The health problems with used oil I am not as worried about. After all, it could have been used hours before for commercial use. That food would have been full of the stuff.
I would prefer to use my own though. I know most chip/kebab/chicken shops would filter their oil to remove debris. This lets them use the oil for at least twice as long! And some I am sure filter much more.
As long as the oil isn't rancid or over oxidised it should be OK. (We won't mention triglycerides or free fatty acids - if we did we wouldn't eat another curry or chip again!!)
I look forward to hearing everyones results (i'll let you lot try it first - if I don't hear back i'll assume the worst ;D )
Everthing in moderaton....
-
I'm still very interested in the outcome of all this. If it really is the missing link or last 5% I would be a bit disappointed but pleased to know "the truth".
If that is really what it takes I'll have to make do with my present 85 to 90 percent BIR taste and forgoe the rest.
Same for me PaulP. I just need to know where that last 5% is. If it is due to filth ( as Bobby Bhuna puts it ;D ) that's no problem. At least I will die happy!
-
We won't mention triglycerides or free fatty acids...
Awww come on they're FREE! How can something that's free be bad for you? :P
-
if it is due to filthy oil, why does my local favourite bir get more of the elusive taste some weeks, than others. if its just down to filthy oil then surely the taste would be there in every takeaway i purchase. this is not always the case though. especially when they are very busy on fridays, the taste is often less prominent. i believe this inconsistancy is due to an occasional sub standard base made when they are low on stock. the chef being rushed and tired, after a long week. and less time taken over preparation that week.
-
i've got the base made and will try curry tonight.
getting the oil out of the deep fryer was a doddle - used my ladle. i've used 275ml black fryer oil (chicken and bhajis), 200ml curry gravy oil (cooking oil leftover from last base), 75ml fresh veg oil. i reclaimed 450ml for cooking before blending. i cooked the base for 2hrs before blending and 2 hrs after (would normally only cook ~1 hr after blending).
the smell of the base was different during cooking - not as nice as normal. after blending i could tell the base tasted different - i can't really say how - a bit more depth maybe. the taste difference did not jump out as significant though but having taken out most of the oil that's not surprising.
i've tasted the reclaimed oil and it is different but again not significantly so.
i'm still open minded and hopeful albeit no more than i was before making the base. i am beginning to think that my black oil may not be as potent as i thought and short of that from a chicken or kebab shop.
my camera is not back from hols till next week so unfortunately can't add pic of the black oil.
-
i am beginning to think that my black oil may not be as potent as i thought and short of that from a chicken or kebab shop.
I tried for months to duplicate this oil
I couldn't do it
That's why I went out to get some, instead
if its just down to filthy oil then surely the taste would be there in every takeaway i purchase.
About ten months ago I was allowed to make up the full size base for a restaurant.
It was an amazing afternoon
The scaled down recipe is posted at the start of this thread
I knew every ingredient that went into it except one
Yes, you've guessed!
The oil!!
This oil was old, dark, and previously used
I tried making the base, at home, with all fresh oil, but it lacked a very important flavour.
So I got some old oil and made the base again and it was perfect
It compares exactly to a frozen genuine base sample, from this place
The curries I made, using this base, were also exact in aroma and flavour.
I froze a few, and I had one, of these, last night
Absolutely stunning
Now I have copied one place, I shall be trying recipes from another
Starting with the base
No wonder we have been told this can't be done at home
Who's going to have this oil?
Let's face it hundreds of us have been trying to get a 100% result for decades
It's no surprise to me, that I achieved this doing something, I hadn't done before
-
i did get a "different" taste in the curries i cooked last night. the potency and ingredients in my deep fryer oil are very likely to be well down compared to the oil from commercial operations. so i'm not sure how close i am to what Haldi is experiencing.
trouble is i found that the taste clashed with what my stove produces. i don't believe this will be the case for members cooking in their kitchen ie it may well be a short cut to using a high output burner.
for info i made 1 off CK's madras, 1 off Kashmiri, 1 off my std madras.
-
Hi Haldi. thats my next quest... to be allowed to make a base in the restaurant. and get there recipe. i am jealous ! good work. true dedication.
-
I think the terms "filthy oil" and "worn out oil" might be being a little melodramatic.
I'd guess that most places turn the oil around pretty quickly (a day or so) and all that's happened, in the meantime, is that they have fried plenty of stuff in it (hence the flavour of it).
My boys tell me that, in the fried chicken outlet they work in (though, granted, not a BIR), they change their oil every day! I've asked them to give me an idea about how much food gets fried in it before they change it.
Interestingly, they also tell me that the oil they use is a solid oil...though they have just changed to a liquid oil (at room temperature).
PS: I'm now using said oil to make a base (Bruce Edaward's) and a subsequent curry...I'll let you know the outcome soon.....
-
Yes, I agree CA.
Bloody hell SS! :o
You're not going through the male menopause are you! ;D
-
I think the terms "filthy oil" and "worn out oil" might be being a little melodramatic.
Seriously CA, I've seen some of this used oil and "filthy" is no exaggeration!
-
Yes, I agree CA.
Bloody hell SS! :o
You're not going through the male menopause are you! ;D
Well statistically there has to be one occasion every year where we agree!
-
i made a further 4 off curries last night (2 madras, 2 kashmiri). i turned my stove down slightly - something i'd been pondering for a couple of weeks (burn on the rim - will detail in relevant post).
i found the "clash" almost disappeared. i've been trying to put into words what this "clash" is - the nearest is buy the same curry from 2 different TA and mix it together. i'd have to say the different taste is not for me - i think this is purely down to what u've been brought up on and how i cook - it's the same as using lemon (or not) in a madras - nothing wrong with it either way.
on the heath grounds i have no concerns - i've eaten much BIR and i think contrary that i am far more healthier as a result even with burnt oil.
CA's view will be very interesting for me as i believe/hope i'm following his teachings.
-
I've seen a base made up, using fresh and old oil from the top of another curry gravy pot
I confess this confuses me a bit Haldi. :-\
Given the (unspiced) oil you are using, I would have expected you to say that you've seen a base made up using old oil from a deep fat fryer (but I would expect that even this oil would be spiced in a BIR) rather than from another gravy pot (which would most definitely be spiced, I would think?).
Surely the two oils are quite different (i.e. spiced and unspiced) aren't they? Though I accept you say that unspiced oil works for you.
-
Maybe the oil doesn't need to be spiced (enough in the base/curry?)
Maybe the difference with this oil is the boiling/frying point + oxidisation.
Anyone who has a deep fat fryer can see that chips cooked in it cook "differently" over time.
New oil takes ages to cook chips (used to own a pub with a restaurant). Oil thats a day or two old (commercial cooking) cooks better and the food tastes better.
Is oil reclaimed for this reason rather than for being spiced?
One consideration would be what else has been cooked in the oil. If it's chicken, then animal fat will be present and cooked heavily. If just chips then???
Just random thoughts, but I think this idea of used oil (in some form) could be really move us forward in our quest :D
-
Got a take away last night from one of the few T/As I still rate round here. It was early evening so they weren't busy and I watched them like a hawk, it being one of those open plan places. First thing the chef did was go out back and carry in a big 20 litre tin of KFC long life veg oil. He decanted some oil into a small (2Lt?) plastic tub on the counter along with all the other tubs of pastes and spices. This was the oil that ours and the other couple of phone orders he was making, were made with so no old oil in the curry. The flames on the burners where quite high but also "lazy" looking, when he cooked each meal there were the usual sparkly flames shooting up round the edge of the pan as he added the base but no real pyrotechnics just a few gentle sparkles. Further proof that the flames although high were in fact not particularly hot came when chef # 2 started doing some chapattis. These started off on the tawa but when almost done on the first side he transferred them to a large round wire scoop thing and finished them off over the high open flame on the burner, tossing each one as they puffed up like a football, if the flame had been fiercely hot the chapattis would have burnt given the time each took. We gave him a round of applause so he started showboating and did a couple spare which we were given along with some gratis chutney to munch while our meal was done, great stuff.
So, no evidence here of any old oil but they did have 2 huge stockpots of base on the go which he kept transferring ladles full from old to new which would make sense keeping some sort of consistency between batches.
The curry was excellent, one of their specials with fancy onions and capsicums, goodness knows how they do them but they are bloody lovely!
Cheers
CoR
-
one of their specials with fancy onions and capsicums, goodness knows how they do them but they are bloody lovely!
What are these "fancy" onions and peppers?
-
First thing the chef did was go out back and carry in a big 20 litre tin of KFC long life veg oil. He decanted some oil into a small (2Lt?) plastic tub on the counter along with all the other tubs of pastes and spices. This was the oil that ours and the other couple of phone orders he was making, were made with so no old oil in the curry.
From watching the maliks video (when it works!), and the Eastlive takeaway, I can see that they only use clean fresh oil and sometimes ghee. Also the few BIR kitchens I've seen have done the same. So I think the use of old oil is not done any more and that probably explains why the old taste is missing!
I posted ages ago that I thought they stopped using the old oil when the councils started collecting it for free to convert to Biofuel. Prior to that they would have to pay to get rid of old oil, so they would incorporate it into the curries instead. I'd love to know when this practise started (and if it's a national practise) to see if it matched with when I think the curries lost their old taste. It would be the final proof.
-
Ive got my 3 hour cooking lesson ( along with three of my family )next Saturday ( Myristica Indian Restaurant ) :o
I reckon the Chef will soon get fed up with me asking so many questions ;)
-
The flames on the burners where quite high but also "lazy" looking, when he cooked each meal there were the usual sparkly flames shooting up round the edge of the pan as he added the base but no real pyrotechnics just a few gentle sparkles.
CoR,
real good description of how my stoves performs. i can assure though the "no pyrotechnics" is down to skill. i'm still trying to master avoiding them as they are not useful. i've had to move my stove further way from the ceiling electric light as a precaution. the flames are hot for defo - my pan handle is 8" long and not long enough - i have to use a tea towel over the handle end to tip the food into the serving bowl at the end of cooking.
Secret Santa,
i don't think we'll ever know the history for sure. Haldi's TA must still be using it. I am pretty sure (just on taste) that my local TA is not.
-
Hi SS.
I agree with what you are saying but there is no way that we are ever going to know for sure. For one thing no one in the biz up here would ever admit to having ever used old oil wether they did or not. Years ago some bright spark in our local council decided it would be a good idea to lump or zone all the T/As into one small area of the town center, why I dunno but the net effect just seems to compound all the ills that befall town centers up and down the country come the weekend i.e. the place turns into WW3 with every pissed up chav in town battling and vomiting and then battling again, you know the scenario. Anyway the T/As eventually got done for bunging up the towns' drains with old grease because for years they had just emptied the stuff down the nearest grid. These days they have to pay to have it disposed of properly and they are monitored to ensure they comply, so you see why asking about old oil is met with great suspicion.
As to those onions, they ain't letting on how they do them, I've asked loads of times only to be told it's "Chefs Secret". ;)
Regards
CoR
-
Sorry guys, the more I think about this the more confused I become! It all seems a little left field to me! :-\
Just to clarify, please:
- where are we saying that BIRs take their used oil from? Their deep fat fryer? The top of their old curry base? The top of cooked curries? A combination of all three? Or somewhere else?
- where would BIRs take used oil from that is similar to that used by a kebab shop (i.e. unspiced - in a curry spice sense - and not used to fry fish - presumably?)?
- if BIRs take used oil from their deep fat fryer, wouldn't that also have been used to fry fish (for the wimps in the crowd!)....as well as to fry chips, chicken(?), pakora, onion bhaji, etc?
Just trying to get my head around this, if someone could be good enough to please oblige! :P
-
but exact quantities are unnecessary
I accept that exact quantities may be unnecessary, but I suggest that "ten small onions" might weigh anywhere between 1 and 2kg (maybe even more!) and would, therefore, have a significant impact on the resultant base, in relation to the quantity of other ingredients present, I'm sure.
Please could you therefore confirm the approximate weight of onions Haldi? I'm sure you wish members to stand the very best chance of replicating your results! :P
By the way, 4 desert spoons (i.e. 40ml) of old oil (and 80ml of oil in total) doesn't seem very much oil Haldi? It seems to be considerably less than most base recipes specify? Unless you are only using about 1kg of onions, of course.
Is the "scooped out" oil (from the base prior to blending)the "salvaged oil" you use to cook the curry?
Thanks,
-
I've seen a base made up, using fresh and old oil from the top of another curry gravy pot
I confess this confuses me a bit Haldi. :-\
Given the (unspiced) oil you are using, I would have expected you to say that you've seen a base made up using old oil from a deep fat fryer (but I would expect that even this oil would be spiced in a BIR) rather than from another gravy pot (which would most definitely be spiced, I would think?).
Surely the two oils are quite different (i.e. spiced and unspiced) aren't they? Though I accept you say that unspiced oil works for you.
What I mean is that having seen a chef use two types of oil in a base,
I thought I would try the same.
The 100% base I made was copying another place where they only used seasoned oil
My logic may have been " a bit off ", but I got the result
I made a new base on Friday using another takeaways's recipe
Yesterday, I cooked a Korma with it, and it was perfect
This was a real test, as this Korma uses no spices
It relies almost totally on the base's flavour
It's extremly important to match curry recipes with the base they need.
-
It's extremly important to match curry recipes with the base they need.
Couldn't agree more Haldi! I also agree that exact quantities are not needed either... ;)
-
I also agree that exact quantities are not needed either... ;)
Well, it seems that we all (three of us at least) agree that exact quantities are not necessary.
But I'm sure that we can all agree that approximate quantities are required..assuming that we wish to replicate and reproduce the same results! :-\
"ten small onions" (probably ranging from 100g to 200g plus) is hardly exact OR approximate is it! :-\
-
..but more importantly....
...I have made three different bases using Haldi's hypothesis on used oil:
1. Bruce Edward's base using used oil from a (primarily) fried chicken outlet
2. Bruce Edward's base using used oil from my deep fat fryer which I've used to fry chips and chicken and about 100 onion bhajis in
3. Ashoka base using used oil from my deep fat fryer which I've used to fry chips and chicken and about 100 onion bhajis in
And the results?
1. Smelt disgusting and I had to throw it away (including the remaining oil)! :o (the smell made me urge so I didn't even bother turning it into curries! Having said that, I'm told that a limited amount of fish (including squid and prawns) is also fried in this oil (besides predominately chicken and chips). It was also oil which is solid at room temperature.
2. and 3. These bases smelt OK so I turned them into chicken madrases. I honestly could not say that they tasted any better than those made from the same bases using fresh oil (apart from, maybe, the slight semblance - negative, I might add - of used oil in the taste!).
Conclusion? I'm at a total loss as to the significance of using used oil with regard to reproducing the "taste" and the "smell" of decent BIR curries. Sorry to say that! :-\
I would be very interested to hear if others can reproduce Haldi's result to their total satisfaction.
And here is the rub Domi...cos, no doubt, you and others will no come back and ask me if I exactly copied Haldi's recipe and methods! Ho Hum! :-X
PS: not that you will really care because, as far as I recall, you can reproduce the taste and smell WITHOUT a base can't you? ;)
-
I tried using used oil in curry bases and when making the curries themselves at least three years ago. The one definite conclusion I came to, which I agree with CA on, is that no matter how moreish the used oil may smell, the effect is completely lost when added to the base.
However, there is a definite effect when added at the curry cooking stage. The used oil haldi is using must be incredibly potent to have such an effect when added to the base!
-
The used oil haldi is using must be incredibly potent to have such an effect when added to the base!
I agree SS (again! :o), especially at the rate of only 40ml of used oil in 1 to 2kg of onions (or more) in the base! :-\
-
By the way, I used exactly the same madras recipe to make the madras from the Ashoka base and the Bruce Edward's base (because I do not particularly subscribe to the theory that "it is extremely important to match curry recipe to the base it needs").
They turned out very similar, apart from the fact that the Ashoka madras was a little creamier (i.e. smoother) and more coconutty (as might reasonably be expected).
In the same vein, I'm sure if I'd used the same madras recipe, using SnS's base, it would have turned out (relatively) more tomatoey.
All very paletable, nevertheless. BUT WHERE IS THE MISSING (decent) BIR TASTE AND SMELL! :-\
-
Sorry Haldi, I certainly respect your efforts and opinions but, right now, I'm at a bit of a loss! :-\ I'm presumably misunderstanding you or I'm doing something terribly wrong!
I would be very happy if you could help make me as happy as you! 8)
-
Not encouraging signs from CA :-\
My oil is starting to get there. Its progressed from yellow to more of a brown. Certainly nowhere near solid at room temperature though. At this pace I figure I'll be ready to give Haldi's method a go.
I have the same questions as CA about the amount of oil and the proportions of ingredients in the base.
Haldi - do you think I would get the same effect if I made the Bruce Edwards base, and just substitute the oil for 50% "old" and 50% "new"?
And then in the finished curry, would you think 3 TBSP of "old" oil is the way to go?
Thx
Josh
-
Hi CA
The onions I used were small smart price from Asda
They average 75gm each
It seems that whatever oil I have got, can't be what anyone else is trying to use.
One thing for sure, is that there is no way I could make it at home
I spend one or two evenings at a takeaway, each month
I am always watching the chefs cooking, and general preparation for tomorrows meals
But we have talked about skills and techniques
Yes, there are certain things that need to be done, at certain times, but some curries are little more than heated curry gravy.
For instance:- korma
Heat the curry gravy, add some coconut powder, single cream and sugar, add precooked ingredient,cook five minutes add a dash more cream and it's ready.
Anybody could make that, if their curry gravy is correct
Madras is another simple curry
Again anyone could make it, but only if their curry gravy is correct
At the places I have seen the "secret" is the gravy
It always tastes moreish, with an extra flavour I couldn't identify until now.
I'm really sorry if my post hasn't brought anyone closer to their goal
And Josh, I really can't answer your question
I posted the recipe that worked for me, at the start of this thread
-
Haldi,
no need for sorry. i (and am sure everyone) are keen to try out possible leads to ensure we don't miss a trick.
i am sure that my fryer oil was not as good as u're using - not commercial. however i think it is representative enough to give a decent reflection on the taste change. i also used base that i know and simply replaced the normal volume of oil that i use with 50% fryer oil. this is similar in principle to the ashoka base which calls for 50:50 marg & oil (too much marg for me i'd add). i then reclaimed the bulk of the oil (as i normally do) and used this for cooking.
this "new" oil did not taste as good as my normal curry gravy oil - it was sort of more "finished" ie still had the fryer cooked taste. this is why i got a clash - my cooking method on high heat effectively re-fried the "new" oil that had already been fried and hence i got an overkill. i think CA will have experienced the same.
i'd therefore be interested in how u cooked using the "new" oil - did u have flames above or below the pan rim and was it low or high heat. i've seen both low (what i call slowboat) and high heat cooking at my local TA. for me the "new" oil does not work at high heat. i did not try it at low heat though. low heat i would define as a conventional hob ie ~3 to 4 Kw. high would be something like 7 kw.
-
Jerry
you say your high heat cooking gave you overkill
but when indian chefs cook on high heat why dont they get overkill ????
just a thought
-
The onions...average 75gm each
Thanks for confirming the quantity of onions Haldi; about 750g then (which makes sense given the 80ml of oil and other ingredients you suggest in your base recipe).
It seems that whatever oil I have got, can't be what anyone else is trying to use.
One thing for sure, is that there is no way I could make it at home
To be fair to you, the two types of oil I've so far used are oils which you have already said are no good i.e. a commercial used oil from a chicken outlet (but also used to fry limited amounts of fish in), and oil from my own deep fat fryer (used to fry onions bhajis and chips in). I also used all used oil in the bases I made (no fresh).
korma....anybody could make that, if their curry gravy is correct....the "secret" is the gravy
I wholeheartedly agree with that Haldi. I appreciate that this oil could be fundamental to the flavour of the base. Other than some form of stock, I really can't see what else it might be.
I'm really sorry if my post hasn't brought anyone closer to their goal
As Jerry says, you have absolutely no reason to be sorry! Your dedication to the task and your suggestions are commendable....even if they do sometimes leave me (and maybe some others) scratching my (our) head(s) in frustration! :P
But it's early days yet Haldi. Hopefully others will have success in verifying your results...
I suppose I just need to find the right oil and understand how and where BIRs produce it! :-\
-
my cooking method on high heat effectively re-fried the "new" oil that had already been fried and hence i got an overkill. i think CA will have experienced the same.
I'm not too sure what you mean Jerry? I anyway only added used oil to the bases I made (I used no fresh oil in the bases). I used fresh oil for cooking the curries. I assumed that the "taste/smell" would have anyway been in the bases already.
-
I have emailed a couple of head chefs to ask their thoughts on this. They have been very open with answering questions in the past so fingers crossed they will both get back to me.
-
I hope they think they are in with a shout for a job Chris! :P
Seriously though, if they were BIR chefs, and are into IT, would they consider contributing here?
You might tell them it's all part of the selection procedure! :P
Don't tell them that we're only making a one-off payment of $50 though! ;)
-
One of them (Baskar) might. He was the very helpful chap who runs the course that Emin-j is going on. I have asked him if he would mind writing down his entire Chicken Madras recipe from base through to finished product. Fingers are firmly crossed that he gets back to me!
I have emailed 5 in total including Yogi, the manager of the excellent Zaffrons in Farnborough. If anyone is local to the area and hasn't eaten there - what are you waiting for??? I used to work very close to them and would enjoy their Wednesday buffet almost every week. I got to know the manager very well and I'm hopeful he will have some nuggets of info for us!
-
Only one reply so far which unfortunately doesn't back up this theory. I'll reserve judgement until at least 2 or 3 people reply to see if they all agree.
Hi I am soory I don't know u but suprisengly I am a chef too if anything I help u with anyway we don't put fryer oil in gravy or sause cause it have smell of the thigs u fry in it so get the best flavour u should use fresh oil sunflower if possible Sent using BlackBerry? from Orange
-
billycat/CA,
i can see now where my approach to the 100% has differred from what Haldi has done.
my adopted approach to curry making is to put a lot of oil into the base during cooking and then take most out to cook the dishes. this works for me and i'm very happy with the taste when cooked at high heat. well sorted in fact.
one potential reason for the overkill from this trial for me was using the previously fried oil in the base and then using it again to fry the dishes in. i also use a fair bit of oil at dish cooking (4 tbsp for most and 6 tbsp for madras). the used oil taste came through far too strong - double fried.
if this was the reason then for me personally i can't see a way of overcoming it. i'd have to adopt one or more of:
a) use fresh oil for frying (as per CA)
b) cook at a lower heat
c) use less oil for dish cooking
none of these options sit well for me.
another reason could be that i've not followed Haldi's approach exactly having added my oil at the start of cooking. i also added much more oil (550ml added of which 275ml was fryer oil and 450ml reclaimed - i needed ~400ml for cooking). i also left more of the oil in the base than could have been the case for Haldi's spec (10 desertspoons in the finished base of 2.1L having started with 800g onion c/w 750g Haldi base and 8 dsp initially). it would be very difficult for me to reduce this amount of oil further.
i accept i'm short on the pukka oil (having used my own fryer oil - chicken & bhajis) and that could also be a reason.
hence my earlier interest in how Haldi cooked the dishes (the flame position, amount of heat, amount/type of oil).
i'm happy that i've tried the approach and u don't really know if it's for u or not until u've tried it. for me i now know i'm happy with what i'm already producing. if u're not then u must give this approach a try as it has every chance of working the same as for Haldi. it does produce a taste similar to that produced at high heat. is it as good - for me no.
-
Hey guys, looks like I hit the motherload! Good old Zaffrons.
Chrish
Its nice to receive ur mail after ages, I hope that ur keeping well.Our chef Roshan also know u and he is happy n ready 2 teach u how to make curries.Except sunday monday n saturday u can come any lunch time u r welcome looking forward to see u. Yogi.
-
I watched the webcam on the easttakeaway website for a couple of hours the other night ,they made curry's and base sauce while i was watching http://www.easttakeaway.co.uk/ I noticed the Chef was removing excess oil from the Curry's with his Chef's spoon and placing it into a stainless container at the back of the hob , didn't see what he did with it after though ,I wonder if this is the ' flavoured ' oil they are more likely to use in their base :-\
-
I watched the webcam on the easttakeaway website for a couple of hours the other night ,they made curry's and base sauce while i was watching http://www.easttakeaway.co.uk/ I noticed the Chef was removing excess oil from the Curry's with his Chef's spoon and placing it into a stainless container at the back of the hob , didn't see what he did with it after though ,I wonder if this is the ' flavoured ' oil they are more likely to use in their base :-\
I emailed them some time ago about this, they assured me that it was only to remove excess oil from each curry to make them a little healthier, ::) and that the excess oil was not used back in the base ;) uh yeah ok, (they wouldn't lie to us ,would they?)
8) 8)
-
didn't see what he did with it after though ,I wonder if this is the ' flavoured ' oil they are more likely to use in their base :-\
Almost certainly not. But do this yourself at home, it really lifts the flavour of a curry if you use this as the oil for making the curry, as opposed to using it in the base!
-
didn't see what he did with it after though ,I wonder if this is the ' flavoured ' oil they are more likely to use in their base :-\
Almost certainly not.
Secret Santa,
You seem nearly convinced that they wouldn't add it to the base,
Just wondering why you think that,
Bob
-
Two reasons
1. The collected oil from several (random) curries gets very very intense on the chilli front!
2. Any benefit from this oil, collected from the curries, is diluted in the base. The chilli factor is reduced...a good thing but, the flavour factor is reduced too!
There would be no benefit taste wise in the base, and every reason not to use it because it makes the base more chillified!
And, of course, the BIR kitchens I have seen, including the ones online, use nothing but fresh oil and ghee!
Also I speak from experience. I have collected oil from curries and used it in the base. It has no effect, other than to make the base hotter (chilli wise).
Use it in the making of the curry though..and yes it makes a great deal of difference!
-
I don't know what I am doing right, with this old oil
But I've copied another places curry base, and gone on to make a clone of one of their curries.
I posted the recipe here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2296.0
Up until now, my homemade version was nowhere near as good
If you tried a teaspoon of my latest attempt, you would have to eat the lot.
Seriously folks, these latest curries are absolutely addictive
When I'm at work, I'm just thinking about the next time I will cook one
I am gobsmacked at it's quality and I am really critical of everything I make
Both bases I made, require boiling the veg for an hour, then adding the oil & spice and boiling about another two hours
I realise that these cooking times are not needed for smaller quantities of base, but it really affects the oils flavour
And that's how long the genuine full sized base takes to cook
The new Bruce Edwards recipe cooks the veg for only an hour
If anyone is satisfied with that, then good
It keeps things simple
But it didn't work for me
I really believe that you need at leasttwo hours cooking with a base
You simply won't get the right flavour with less time
The idea of using old oil in the base may not be common practice at all places
But it's not a theory of mine
I have seen it done
But if noone else can make this work, then I guess that doesn't really matter.
It does make me wonder if I lucked out with this old oil I got.
Maybe I'll never be able to do this again, when it runs out
-
Two reasons
1. The collected oil from several (random) curries gets very very intense on the chilli front!
2. Any benefit from this oil, collected from the curries, is diluted in the base. The chilli factor is reduced...a good thing but, the flavour factor is reduced too!
There would be no benefit taste wise in the base, and every reason not to use it because it makes the base more chillified!
And, of course, the BIR kitchens I have seen, including the ones online, use nothing but fresh oil and ghee!
Also I speak from experience. I have collected oil from curries and used it in the base. It has no effect, other than to make the base hotter (chilli wise).
Use it in the making of the curry though..and yes it makes a great deal of difference!
Secret Santa,
I was kind of waiting for you to mention the chilli issue in the base when used for kormas etc, and I agree with you, I know the chefs would also be aware of this so could possibly add excess oil only from milder curries, dupiazas, bhunas,
I too am not convinced of the use of the excess oil in the base, I just wanted to get your take on this,
However, I disagree that the online kitchens use nothing but fresh oil and ghee, presumably you are talking about the making of the base as well? I watched Maliks add very dark oil to the top of the fresh onions in their base pot, it really coated the onions, I watched the base making from start to finish several months ago and no clean oil was added,
I emailed them asking what the dark oil was that they added, they told me it was clean oil, I'm not blind but I understand that they wouldn't want to share the information,
I have posted about this before, I believe this was used bhaji oil or poppadom oil, both of which they fry separately in a different container, I can't see that poppadom oil would have much flavour but the bhaji oil would,
Just my observations,
Bob
-
I really believe that you need at leasttwo hours cooking with a base
You simply won't get the right flavour with less time
The idea of using old oil in the base may not be common practice at all places
But it's not a theory of mine
I have seen it done
I agree with you haldi on the long cooking of the base. I always found i had to cook them for longer than suggested in the recipes.
I found using the oil from the Ashoka fried onion paste had a good effect and a reserve stash i made from my deep fryer oil and excess oil from my own and takeaway curries (and even other cuisines) worked pretty well too.
I am satisfied that cooking a lot of the ingredients (inc oil) of a curry multiple times and in different ways is the 'secret technique' home cooks generally miss. The Ashoka recipes made me aware of this regarding onion and garlic (cooking the former in 4 ways i believe). It is also a technique that Heston Blumenthal uses a lot. See his 'perfection' TV series. It seems pretty common sense after that.
-
Haldi,
I finally got around to trying the "old oil". Mind you, mine was nowhere near black, but certainly was a medium brown colour. I must have gone through 50 sittings of chips over the last month to get it to this point.
Following your advice, I made a base with 50% old and 50% new oil. I used 2 tablespoons of "old" to make the Vindaloo.
Observations - firstly I was worried that the base and curry would smell weird, as the oil itself had a very "chippy" and 'chickeny" smell to it. I could not detect it in the base or the curry. I couldn't pick out a discernable "wow" taste - although I wouldn't know what a 1970's or 80's BIR curry would taste like in comparison to todays.
That said, tonights curry could well have been the best to ever come out of my kitchen. Its just so tough to rank one curry against another without doing a side-by-side. I was tempted to make parallel bases and Vindaloos to do such a test, but decided to do just the one.
Great work Haldi, I am going to continue to use this method, until such time as I get the chance to do the head-to-head.
-- Josh
-
A word of warning!
I recently made two different bases (Ashoka and BE) using used oil (used for frying chips and onion bhajis) from my deep fat fryer (see earlier post in this thread). I made some curries and froze the remaining base.
Earlier this week, I defrosted some of each of the two bases and made some more curries. I have to say that the bases (and the resultant curries) smelt and tasted awful! In fact, I ditched the lot (something I have rarely, if ever, done!) :o
I have never had this problem before. They both had a nasty, rancid, horrible boiled/stewed onion smell and taste. I can only put this down to the used oil in the bases; I can't think what else it could be... ???
So, please beware, if you intend to freeze your base (and maybe the resultant curries), used oil might not be the way to go.....
Anyone else experienced this?
-
Warning heeded!
The base I used was fresh, and still hot after being on the cooker.
I will freeze some of it to see if I get the same problem. Note I didn't fry any bhajis in the oil I used. Primarily chips with the odd chicken.
-
Haldi,
I finally got around to trying the "old oil".
Great work Haldi, I am going to continue to use this method, until such time as I get the chance to do the head-to-head.
-- Josh
I'm really glad this worked out
I'm still getting exact results with the original (now frozen) oil I got from the kebab shop
A word of warning!
I recently made two different bases (Ashoka and BE) using used oil (used for frying chips and onion bhajis) from my deep fat fryer (see earlier post in this thread). I made some curries and froze the remaining base.
Sorry this happened CA, but the recipes I use call for hours of boiling, after the oil is added.
Maybe it's that, or perhaps this old oil was somehow ruined
At no stage did my curry base smell or taste horrible
-
Sorry this happened CA, but the recipes I use call for hours of boiling, after the oil is added.
Maybe it's that, or perhaps this old oil was somehow ruined
It's hardly your fault Haldi! :P
Actually, I did simmer both these bases for over 2 hours. The difference being (to you) is that I only added used oil to these bases (no fresh)
I'm still otherwise using the same oil for frying...it otherwise seems fine. Did you freeze your bases too and find they were still OK afterwards?
It may have been something else, such as shite onions, perhaps? Very strange indeed ???
-
I couldn't pick out a discernable "wow" taste - although I wouldn't know what a 1970's or 80's BIR curry would taste like in comparison to todays.
You would if you knew it...and that pretty much sums it up for me!
-
Hi Haldi
A perfect post
( I posted something similiar a while ago but it seemed not to click with members? )
AND its something Ive been doing for many months now, even before I read your post.
Im living in Turkey now but have been cooking Indian and Asian food for years
I ALWAYS make my base from 50% Old oil & 50% new
I get mine from a Fried Chicken fast takeaway joint here, just when its getting nice and dark in colour, just before they get rid of it
Exactly like you.
Ive no problem getting BIR taste now EVERY time
And to answer this question or comment I see from other members '' Im sure Indian Restaurants dont go around Chicken Takeaways etc scavenging waste / old oil '' the answer is easy - they dont have to,
All Indian restaurants have deep fat friers for doing Bhagies, poppadoms etc = this is their source of old oil
Members cannot replicate this oil at home as its the sheer volume of cooking that does the trick.
Dont believe me? Try cooking fresh oil for long enough yourself with enough food items in a batch of oil & see if you can get it to turn almost black. I dont think so. It will have turned rancid from age before that happens.
Old restaurant oil is relatively young and thus fresh, its the volume of cooking that does the business to the oil.
Just try it and you will see.
Just dont take old oil that has had fish cooked in it aswell, that WONT work
-
I ALWAYS make my base from 50% Old oil & 50% new
I get my old oil from a Fried Chicken fast takeaway joint here, just when its getting nice and dark in colour, just before they get rid of it
Ive no problem getting BIR taste now EVERY time
I'm so glad someone else is getting success with this
The mistake commonly made is that the flavour of the curry, comes from the spices.
It doesn't
It comes from the old oil and salt
Spices have very little flavour (except cummin and garam masala)
I've had full flavoured curries, where only a pinch of spice was added
-
Cheers Haldi
You are spot on
In fact the best taste Ive got was using old restaurant oil which had had a lot of onion rings deep fried in it, during a promotional offer!