Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: emin-j on June 14, 2009, 08:59 PM
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;D Dropped into my favourite T/A last night ,it's over 12 miles from home but we pop in when traveling in that direction ,anyway ordered the food and was sat waiting ,the guy behind the counter although does not speak very good English is a friendly sort and so I started talking about making a Madras Curry .I asked how much Garlic and Ginger he put into a single serving and he pointed to the tip of his finger and said 'tiny bit' I said ' a teasoon ' 'No ! he said 'Garlic and Ginger very strong 'what he was basically saying was 1 teaspoon of Garlic and 1 of Ginger is too much and would spoil the flavour of the Curry,interesting then I asked about Curry Base and he replied ' what,Karahi ? I think that his what he said :-\ uh yes :-\ would you like to see mine :o :o :o he then invited me into the kitchen whilst our food was being cooked WOW ! :o I couldn't believe it , a dream come true ;D he then showed me a massive ...saucepan full of Curry Base Yellowy/Brown colour just simmering on the hob I asked what was in it and he said Onions,Carrot,Fresh Coriander,plus blah blah blah I couldn't understand some of what he said due to his not so good English. :( When I walked out of the kitchen I jokingly said ' I'll pay you for some lessons ' ;) He said NO :(...Lessons Free :o ;D ;D I will soon be taking him up on his offer and report my findings ..watch this space ;)
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Nice one! Get on that. :D
I think there are more BIR chefs willing to share than we think there are.
I know my former takeaway owner was more than happy to teach. Unfortunately I was 4000 miles away. :(
Do let us know how you get on Emin-J
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emin-j,
well pleased for u.
if nothing else get a taste of the base - so that u know what you're aiming for.
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Great stuff, if you do go back make sure you take a pen and paper for some notes 8)
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Hi, great work. I now regularly pop into the kitchen at my local bir. it never loses its magic! Ask how they spice the base sauce, and see if they will share a madras recipe. Cheers DD
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hi emin-j
it's a great buzz and it feels totally surreal, doesn't it! you can't really take it all in especially on your first visit. you should ask if you can film him making the food, you never know! but i know how you feel you can't stop thinking about it. good luck for your next visit mate.
regards
gary ;)
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Great stuff, if you do go back make sure you take a pen and paper for some notes 8)
Got to be carefull he might think i am a spy ;)
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hi emin-j
it's a great buzz and it feels totally surreal, doesn't it! you can't really take it all in especially on your first visit. you should ask if you can film him making the food, you never know! but i know how you feel you can't stop thinking about it. good luck for your next visit mate.
regards
gary ;)
Thanks gary , yes I didnt know where to look first :)
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I know my former takeaway owner was more than happy to teach. Unfortunately I was 4000 miles away. :(
PFFFT! Some people just have no dedication to their art! ;)
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Hi all,
Further to my tour of the kitchen of my fav T/A last week I popped in yesterday and ordered our food and asked if I could watch the Chef cook our Madras Curries :o The guy who takes the orders said " I will ask the Chef " he was gone a few minutes so I thought it was going to be a " Sorry, No " :( But he came from the kitchen and asked me into the kitchen ;D I didn't write anything down or take photo's as I didn't want to seem to be probing too much ::)The amount of spices etc were difficult to judge as he used the Chef's spoon to ' dip' into his Spice containers.
I was talking to the Chef all the time he was cooking and asking questions.
He had a 2.5 ltr saucepan on the right of the hob half filled with fresh oil and the make of oil was Taj Mahal ( yellow container )I asked if they use any residual oil and he said no only fresh oil ** with some Butter Ghee melted into it ** :)he would use his Chef's spoon to put the oil into his cooking pan , he did not use a Wok more like a Omelet Pan deep enough to take a single T/A serving of curry.At a guess it was probably about half a tea cup of oil so a fair bit !
He then added a very small amount of Methi ( the dried variety )then about 2 teaspoons of Garlic Paste then 2 - 3 tablespoons of Tom Puree ,this was then fried for a minute or so and then 2 - 3 teaspoons of Chili powder was added plus some Salt , a squirt of ** Lemon Juice ** a small amount of Salt then his 'Chefs Special' Curry Powder.They wouldn't tell me what was in it but it looked like your usual Curry powder :-X he continued to cook for a couple of mins then added Pre Cooked Chicken and finally about 1 good tablespoon of fresh Coriander ,this was cooked for another minute or two then poured into the takeaway container and garnished with a sprinkle of fresh Corriand er a a slice of Tomato.
I asked about the Curry Base and the Chef said " Onions,Green Pepper,Carrot,Ginger,Green Chillies ( small amount ), and fresh Coriander.** The Chef did add " If the Curry Base is not right the Curry will not be "** :o
I did notice there was no Ginger used in the Curry .
He also had a container of water to the side , I would guess to get the consistency of the Curry right - if he needed to.
I think I have given the basics of what I wanted to know :D but as to exact amounts you will have to experiment .Oh ! and our Curry was lush :-*
If you have any questions I might have the answer ; :-\
PS - forgot to mention :-[ the Curry Base ::) 1 ladle went in just after the Spices and a second ladle went in just after the pre - cooked Chicken.
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Well done emin-j
When did the base go in? Before or after the curry powder/salt/lemon juice?
Also..are you sure it was salt or could it have been MSG?
Just grasping at straws really coz this does sound simple!!!
Cheers
PS...I wonder what that curry powder had in it. I'm sure the variations in garam masalas have a huge impact on the finished dish.
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Emin, you need a camera too!!
I have my own security systems company, so if you want a covert camera you can wear let me know!! ;)
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Well done emin-j
When did the base go in? Before or after the curry powder/salt/lemon juice?
Also..are you sure it was salt or could it have been MSG?
Just grasping at straws really coz this does sound simple!!!
Cheers
PS...I wonder what that curry powder had in it. I'm sure the variations in garam masalas have a huge impact on the finished dish.
Hi CurryCrazy ,Yes he defo said Salt ,1 ladle of base after the Spices were added then another during the remaining cooking time.
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Just grasping at straws really coz this does sound simple!!!
This shows how important the base is
Thanks for the post emin-j
An interesting read
Especially using oil with butter ghee
I've never tried that
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emin-j,
agree very much on the approach.
very interesting report. i'm pondering methods at the mo and may just give this a go.
how much at a guess - curry powder "mix powder/spice mix" would u say.
just out of interest i guess the tom puree was watered to make it more runny.
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Great Report Emin-J.
When you say curry powder, did you mean spice mix? Could you tell?
Ask if you watch next time they make base?
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emin-j,
agree very much on the approach.
very interesting report. i'm pondering methods at the mo and may just give this a go.
how much at a guess - curry powder "mix powder/spice mix" would u say.
just out of interest i guess the tom puree was watered to make it more runny.
Hi JerryM ,Probably 1 - 2 teaspoons sorry I cant be more accurate the Spices were a bit obscured everytime he turned to add some ::)but I caught a glimpse as it was going in the pan ,it's so difficult to guesstimate when they use their ' Chef's Spoon ' to dip into the Spice containers :-\
As regards the Tom/Puree ,yes I did notice it was ' runny ' compared to the stuff my wife buys in the tubes.
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Well done emin-j
When did the base go in? Before or after the curry powder/salt/lemon juice?
Also..are you sure it was salt or could it have been MSG?
Just grasping at straws really coz this does sound simple!!!
Cheers
PS...I wonder what that curry powder had in it. I'm sure the variations in garam masalas have a huge impact on the finished dish.
CurryCrazy , yes it was very simple compared to when I make my Madras ::)I always thought to myself " I cant believe the T/A makes such a complicated job of their Curries as they haven't got the time ,it probably took him about 15 mins to make 2 Madras Curries.
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Great Report Emin-J.
When you say curry powder, did you mean spice mix? Could you tell?
Ask if you watch next time they make base?
The Curry Powder was just referred to as " Chef's Special " Curry Powder and they said it was one the Chef makes up himself.To me it looked like your usual Curry Powder in colour and lighter in colour than the Garam Massalla I have.
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hi emin-j
the chef at the mouchak uses the oil from the top of the gravy only because it is there, but 1 minute before the end of cooking the dish he adds about 1tsp of melted butter ghee this gives the dish an extra lift imho. i do it and when i asked why he sad the british love their buuter so a little is added to most of the dishes. their curries are fab. and they have 3 other restaurants mouchak is the smallest, the raja of kent which i drive past to get to mouchak and is always packed! the raja of maidstone and they have 1 in dartford that seats 200 people! so they know there stuff.
regards for 2nite
gary
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Hi Emin-J,
When he says "Chef's Special" my guess is that it is Spice Mix, not Curry Powder. Don't believe many BIRs bother to make their own when Rajah, East End seem so popular.
Will you ask to understand how he makes his base (tracking ingredients, measure, and technique)?
Hope he lets you!
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hi emin-j
the chef at the mouchak uses the oil from the top of the gravy only because it is there, but 1 minute before the end of cooking the dish he adds about 1tsp of melted butter ghee this gives the dish an extra lift imho. i do it and when i asked why he sad the british love their buuter so a little is added to most of the dishes. their curries are fab. and they have 3 other restaurants mouchak is the smallest, the raja of kent which i drive past to get to mouchak and is always packed! the raja of maidstone and they have 1 in dartford that seats 200 people! so they know there stuff.
regards for 2nite
gary
Hi gary,
When I think about it ,a few months ago I visited a place in Bristol called Flavourz,they do an all you can eat for a set price ( ?11.95 I think it was )they do Mexican ,Chinese,Italian,and Indian food all cooked in front of you it was great !
They had a lovely Indian Curry there not quite Madras hot but very tasty.
My daughter came back to the table with a shocked look on her face and said they had just topped up the Indian Curry ( cuz I ate most of it ;D ) and they put about 1/2 a pack of Butter on the top of the Curry to melt into it :o :o
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Hi Emin-J,
When he says "Chef's Special" my guess is that it is Spice Mix, not Curry Powder. Don't believe many BIRs bother to make their own when Rajah, East End seem so popular.
Will you ask to understand how he makes his base (tracking ingredients, measure, and technique)?
Hope he lets you!
Maybe ,but I think I had better tread a bit lightly ;)
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Emin-J,
I made this Madras tonight to the spec you provided (exactly). Although I made a liberty in assuming the chef's spice was spice mix, not curry powder.
Outstanding!
Not too dissimilar to a number of Madras recipes, but the ghee/oil, methi-first, 3T tomato, and two tsp chilli made it enough different to try. Lemon juice as well made it a to-try for me.
The problem is, that I can't exactly line up my last 20 Madras efforts to see where it really ranks. I can conclude that it was excellent.
I think the base though, is the key thing we are after. Since these guys use fresh oil (as do others as posted) the secret is in the base. I think it was Haldi who says they were able to recreate BIR at home when using bought base.
Tread as lightly as you think you need to, but GET THAT BASE RECIPE!
Thanks for all your efforts.
-- Josh
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Emin-J,
I made this Madras tonight to the spec you provided (exactly). Although I made a liberty in assuming the chef's spice was spice mix, not curry powder.
Outstanding!
Not too dissimilar to a number of Madras recipes, but the ghee/oil, methi-first, 3T tomato, and two tsp chilli made it enough different to try. Lemon juice as well made it a to-try for me.
The problem is, that I can't exactly line up my last 20 Madras efforts to see where it really ranks. I can conclude that it was excellent.
I think the base though, is the key thing we are after. Since these guys use fresh oil (as do others as posted) the secret is in the base. I think it was Haldi who says they were able to recreate BIR at home when using bought base.
Tread as lightly as you think you need to, but GET THAT BASE RECIPE!
Thanks for all your efforts.
-- Josh
Thank's for having ' faith ' Josh ;D I think a lovely Madras can be made very simply but it is still down to personal taste I suppose ;)I will press them for the base recipe tho ;)Did you remember the fresh Coriander ;)
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Always fresh coriander!
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Interesting reading emin-J ! I've being 'frying-in' dried methi at an early stage of the cooking process and am CONVINCED it works better than adding it at the end (or adding none for that matter!)
Keep up the good work!
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Interesting reading emin-J ! I've being 'frying-in' dried methi at an early stage of the cooking process and am CONVINCED it works better than adding it at the end (or adding none for that matter!)
Keep up the good work!
Hi adriandavidb ,I have just finished my Curry and it was very nice ;D seconded by the Wife :D and as yourself started with the frying of the Methi , also put about a tablespoon of Butter Ghee in with the Oil ,the aroma was very nice from the start !
Also adding the Lemon Juice seemed to ' smooth ' out the Curry,just need to sort the recipe for the Base now ::)
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My method is similar, a hotch potch of my own ideas, together with the corpus of curry books (KD etc)available and some great ideas from CrO people:
I chuck a chopped chillie into a heavy based frying pan containing 3 tbs of oil, and when it is sizzlingI know the temp is high enough to cook the raw spices without burning them (Bruce Edwards' idea this one!). I wait a further minute to allow any fried chillie flavour to develope, then I bung in garlic puree followed by (diluted) tomarto puree and cook till moisture evaporated. Next goes in spice mix, chillie powder, ground dried methi leaf (C.O. KD), salt and a tiny pinch of sugar ( most of which caramalizes in the hot oil).
After cooking the spice for a min or so, toffee aroma, then add base in stages bringing back to boil after each edition.
Instead of lemon juice I add blizzed tinned toms to sour, about 3 or 4 tbs, I believe CK (?) does this also, and a lot of chopped corriander just before serving, it does not need 'cooking-in' The finaly chopped stalks actually givce a much better flavour than the leaves ( I just use those to garnish) - slightly 'lemony' rather thatn 'candle wax'!
Might have one tomorrrow!!
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My method is similar, a hotch potch of my own ideas, together with the corpus of curry books (KD etc)available and some great ideas from CrO people:
I chuck a chopped chillie into a heavy based frying pan containing 3 tbs of oil, and when it is sizzlingI know the temp is high enough to cook the raw spices without burning them (Bruce Edwards' idea this one!). I wait a further minute to allow any fried chillie flavour to develope, then I bung in garlic puree followed by (diluted) tomarto puree and cook till moisture evaporated. Next goes in spice mix, chillie powder, ground dried methi leaf (C.O. KD), salt and a tiny pinch of sugar ( most of which caramalizes in the hot oil).
After cooking the spice for a min or so, toffee aroma, then add base in stages bringing back to boil after each edition.
Instead of lemon juice I add blizzed tinned toms to sour, about 3 or 4 tbs, I believe CK (?) does this also, and a lot of chopped corriander just before serving, it does not need 'cooking-in' The finaly chopped stalks actually givce a much better flavour than the leaves ( I just use those to garnish) - slightly 'lemony' rather thatn 'candle wax'!
Might have one tomorrrow!!
Sounds like you have that well sorted ;)I always make an extra portion and keep in the fridge for a day or so for a treat ;D
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Well done emin-j, good work! It's a different order of ingredients than i've seen before but the simplicity seems in keeping with what others have seen.
My favourite TA puts the methi in near the beginning too. I find you need to fry dry herbs (in any cuisine) to make their flavour come out. Much like spices. Adding them at the end like you do with fresh herbs doesn't give the full flavour and can make it musky.
Glad they use lemon in their madras.
JoshAllen, i dont understand what you mean by the difference between curry powder and spice mix. Isn't curry powder a mix of spices and isn't a chef's spice mix his powder to make curry? Obviously mixes like garam masala or panch phoran use specific ingredients but aren't these two just generic terms? I'm interested to know as i have always thought it was just a term that became popular by repetition on these forums, like 'base'.
I have made my own in the past but find it hard to beat shop bought brands.
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JoshAllen, i dont understand what you mean by the difference between curry powder and spice mix
Hi Chinois,
What I was trying to figure out is if he was using a "curry powder", like an Rajah Madras Gold, East End, etc - a commercial mix, or what we create as a "spice mix" - like the Bruce Edwards, or DD's - which is curry powder (above) plus usually turmeric, cumin, coriander, paprika etc.
The reason I asked is that there aren't many (in fact any I can think of) actual curry recipes on the site that use curry powder as a standalone ingredient. They all use the spice "mix" type.
-- Josh
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Well done emin-j, good work! It's a different order of ingredients than i've seen before but the simplicity seems in keeping with what others have seen.
My favourite TA puts the methi in near the beginning too. I find you need to fry dry herbs (in any cuisine) to make their flavour come out. Much like spices. Adding them at the end like you do with fresh herbs doesn't give the full flavour and can make it musky.
Glad they use lemon in their madras.
JoshAllen, i dont understand what you mean by the difference between curry powder and spice mix. Isn't curry powder a mix of spices and isn't a chef's spice mix his powder to make curry? Obviously mixes like garam masala or panch phoran use specific ingredients but aren't these two just generic terms? I'm interested to know as i have always thought it was just a term that became popular by repetition on these forums, like 'base'.
I have made my own in the past but find it hard to beat shop bought brands.
Hi chinois ,the 'Spice Mix ' is considered as separate from ' Curry Powder ' spice mix is usually a mixture of Coriander,Cumin,Turmeric,and sometimes Curry Powder ::) all mixed in different amounts ,if you do a search for ' Spice Mix ' there are some interesting threads to read . ;)
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Ok cool both of you seem to have answered what i expected. I just call that curry powder and i imagine that's probably the same thing as the manufacturers do.
I find it easier to describe it to non-curryholics like that as mix powder doesnt mean anything to them. No probs, just thought i'd check.
I've tried quite a few versions and generally find the ones that include shop-bought curry powder better. Also using tandoori or chat powder.
One part coriander, one turmeric, one cumin and two curry powder seems quite good and is what i use at the moment. Hard to say if it's better than just the curry powder on it's own IMO as side-by-side comparisons dont provide much of a different result.
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Hi Emin,
Did you notice just how similar this recipe and method is to the one I witnessed yesterday? They are almost identical apart from mine had the garlic and spices in the base, yours added them into the individual curry. This is exactly the type of curry I love, very simple, very tasty and incredibly moorish!
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Hi Emin,
Did you notice just how similar this recipe and method is to the one I witnessed yesterday? They are almost identical apart from mine had the garlic and spices in the base, yours added them into the individual curry. This is exactly the type of curry I love, very simple, very tasty and incredibly moorish!
I think we have hit the ' nail on the head ' Keep it simple and make it fresh ;D
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I think we have hit the ' nail on the head ' Keep it simple and make it fresh ;D
Nonsense! ::)
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Cory
How can it be nonsense when we have both had amazing curries cooked for us this way in the last week by separate head chefs?
I'm sure certain curries benefit from a clever blend of spices and hours of preparation, but a good old Madras or CTM can be knocked up fresh in 30 mins with devastating results.
Why don't you give either this CTM or my Madras recipe a go and let us know your thoughts. You have probably made more curries then almost anyone on this site so your input would be interesting to hear. Just don't dismiss it as nonsense without trying it first. You might be pleasantly surprised.
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Cory
How can it be nonsense when we have both had amazing curries cooked for us this way in the last week by separate head chefs?
It's nonesense as far as typical BIR cooking is concerned Chris...it's as simple as that!
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a good old Madras or CTM can be knocked up fresh in 30 mins with devastating results.
I'm sure the results could justify 30 mins or longer being spent at home but very few commerical restaurants would want to spend that long when they can produce a similar (even if inferior) dish in 5 minutes by using base sauce.
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a good old Madras or CTM can be knocked up fresh in 30 mins with devastating results.
I'm sure the results could justify 30 mins or longer being spent at home but very few commerical restaurants would want to spend that long when they can produce a similar (even if inferior) dish in 5 minutes by using base sauce.
Agreed George :) ,I have received the recipes now and will forward them to your email George. ;)
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Agreed George :) ,I have received the recipes now and will forward them to your email George. ;)
Many thanks. I look forward to seeing and trying the recipes. My main interest in any of these dishes is for use at dinner parties, rather than for everyday food. I see BIR food as far too unhealthy for everyday food. Therefore if a dish using base sauce takes me 5 minutes to prepare and tastes pretty good, but another dish takes me an hour to prepare and tastes even better, I know which I'd use - the dish which tastes best in absolute terms - not closest to a 1980s BIR taste, or close to anything else - but simply tastes best in absolute terms, here in 2009. I hope your recipes become contenders for the few curries which one would ever prepare for a relatively small number of dinner parties per year. Just to take one example of a leading dish from this site, i.e. Blades chicken tikka: I simply don't know of a better-tasting recipe from any source, so that's the recipe I would always use for chicken tikka, until something better comes along, and perhaps it never will.
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Emin-J - could you post the recipes for the forum?
-- josh
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Hi all,
Further to my tour of the kitchen of my fav T/A last week I popped in yesterday and ordered our food and asked if I could watch the Chef cook our Madras Curries :o The guy who takes the orders said " I will ask the Chef " he was gone a few minutes so I thought it was going to be a " Sorry, No " :( But he came from the kitchen and asked me into the kitchen ;D I didn't write anything down or take photo's as I didn't want to seem to be probing too much ::)The amount of spices etc were difficult to judge as he used the Chef's spoon to ' dip' into his Spice containers.
I was talking to the Chef all the time he was cooking and asking questions.
He had a 2.5 ltr saucepan on the right of the hob half filled with fresh oil and the make of oil was Taj Mahal ( yellow container )I asked if they use any residual oil and he said no only fresh oil ** with some Butter Ghee melted into it ** :)he would use his Chef's spoon to put the oil into his cooking pan , he did not use a Wok more like a Omelet Pan deep enough to take a single T/A serving of curry.At a guess it was probably about half a tea cup of oil so a fair bit !
He then added a very small amount of Methi ( the dried variety )then about 2 teaspoons of Garlic Paste then 2 - 3 tablespoons of Tom Puree ,this was then fried for a minute or so and then 2 - 3 teaspoons of Chili powder was added plus some Salt , a squirt of ** Lemon Juice ** a small amount of Salt then his 'Chefs Special' Curry Powder.They wouldn't tell me what was in it but it looked like your usual Curry powder :-X he continued to cook for a couple of mins then added Pre Cooked Chicken and finally about 1 good tablespoon of fresh Coriander ,this was cooked for another minute or two then poured into the takeaway container and garnished with a sprinkle of fresh Corriand er a a slice of Tomato.
I asked about the Curry Base and the Chef said " Onions,Green Pepper,Carrot,Ginger,Green Chillies ( small amount ), and fresh Coriander.** The Chef did add " If the Curry Base is not right the Curry will not be "** :o
I did notice there was no Ginger used in the Curry .
He also had a container of water to the side , I would guess to get the consistency of the Curry right - if he needed to.
I think I have given the basics of what I wanted to know :D but as to exact amounts you will have to experiment .Oh ! and our Curry was lush :-*
If you have any questions I might have the answer ; :-\
PS - forgot to mention :-[ the Curry Base ::) 1 ladle went in just after the Spices and a second ladle went in just after the pre - cooked Chicken.
Further to this post , I called in for a Curry this evening and I got to talking to the guys who work in the T/A , one guy asked how I was getting on with my Curry making ( this guy was most helpful when I watched them cook some months ago )
I then asked about their Spice Mix when previously he wasn't that forthcoming with the ingredients :-X but I must have caught him on a good day today :) I started by saying Coriander ? Cumin ? he said yes plus Turmeric , Curry Powder and Garam Masala ;D
I asked how much of each and he said more Curry Powder and Turmeric than the others ::)
Basically I will start the ratio 1tbs Coriander , Cumin , Garam Masala , then 2tbs Curry Powder and Turmeric . Then got to find out how much to put in when making the final Curry ???
What do you think ..... ;)
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hi eminj you could/should/would use 1-2tsp per dish, remember normally the hotter the dish you tend to up the spice mix eg for a vindaloo/phall max 2tsp so the flavour is not lost to the heat of the chilli powder.
regards
gary :)
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Thanks' Parker21,
When I think back to the kitchen visit and the Chef making my Curry , to me it looked like 1 - 2 tablespoons of Spice mix went into my Curry ( using his Chef's spoon ) and when I think of my Madras Curries I would use 1 rounded tsp Coriander , Cumin , and Turmeric that equals 1 good tablespoon plus 1 tsp of Chili.