Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Starters & Side Dishes => Starters and Side Dishes Chat => Topic started by: JerryM on April 29, 2009, 08:16 AM
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i bought my next 20kg bag of basmati rice last night (i don't actually use it for curry though preferring naan). what was of interest was the store has organised the rice so that u can see it all at one gone. quite a pile to say the least - the problem was there were 20 different varieties.
it dawned on me that i haven't a clue on how to pick the wood from the chaff.
a chappy hauled a 45kg monster in his trolley and clearly seemed to know what he was looking for.
would appreciate any thoughts/advice/tips.
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sainsburys finest basmati. or tesco finest range basmati. its small grain like bir style
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The term basmati seems to have become a sort of "generic" term for long grain rice grown pretty much anywhere in the sub-continent, a bit like cheddar cheese here. The T/As and BIRs will I presume just buy the cheapest they can that says basmati on the bag but the difference from the cheapo stuff and the real thing is night and day, just like supermarket cheddar compared to a proper farmhouse cheese.
Real basmati is only grown in specific regions and only harvested once yearly and must be aged before sale to be at its best. Anything labeled "Pakistani Basmati" or "genetically tested (?modified?)" is phoney and will not taste as good as one of the reputable brands.
Have a look here http://www.tilda.com/ (http://www.tilda.com/) for more info.
BTW JerryM, if you don't use it for curries what on earth are you going to use 20kg of rice for??
Regards
CoR
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sorry, probably need to clarify a bit more - i'm probably being a bit too boffy and should get out more.
the last bag i had was spot on. it is labled: brand - Shahmir, origin - Pakistan, description - Super Kernal Basmati, Extra Long Grain rice, Premium Quality
the new bag is labled: brand - Chenab, origin - Pakistan, description - Best Quality (i'll add the rest that sold it at the end).
the big question for me is sort of: is Pakistan the best place or is India as there are plenty of brands from there to. also what does the kernal have to do with it.
i guess i need an idiot's guide to what to look for on the packageing.
this is what sold the current bag: under description, "In the foothills of mighty Himalayas soft beds are prepared in fertile fields and seeds are sown with bare hands. Plants are watered by the monsoon rains and natured by seasonal sunshine. Although Pakistan produce around 4 million tons rice annually, only 250,000 tons are different types of rice and of this only a fraction is the delicate best quality variety. Whereas ordinary rice has a yield of about 6000 lbs per acre, the different rice give only 2100 pounds. the finest of the rice types, popularly known as best quality rice has a yield of only 1100 pounds per acre, yet this comparitively low yielding grain is much sort after for its culinary excellence, superior grain length and fragrance. Unsuccessful attempts have been made to grow rice in other parts of the world but it's genuine home is the punjab area of the Indian sub continent where it flourishes at its best among the rain fed basins of Ravi and Chenab rivers. Chenab brand is beyond comparison with other types of rice which are generally available and we know that once our customers have tried it they will never willing accept an inferior brand".
clearly i've answered my own question but just in case i can't find the Chenab next time what are the key essentials to look out for.
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Take a look at this
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/the-heat-is-on-investigators-discover-that-half-the-basmati-rice-sold-in-britain-is-adulterated-733815.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/the-heat-is-on-investigators-discover-that-half-the-basmati-rice-sold-in-britain-is-adulterated-733815.html)
Obviously the article is from a while ago and the industry has introduced stricter guidelines but there is no "official" enforcement and nothing to suggest things have improved much. Basically I suppose if it cooks ok and smells ok then it probably is ok but good basmati is never going to cheap.
CoR
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CoR,
many thanks for the links. will give them a good read.
it's not the money. i'm happy to pay for the top notch stuff. the trouble is in buying a big bag then it's a long time in the eating if it's not the real mcoy.
the difficulties i've found in the past is along with taste the more inferior rice does not cook as easily "consistently" with the result that the texture can be both soft and gritty.
in terms of use - i pretty much live on the stuff when not eating curry - i'm not a real fan of potato unless it's chipped. i use it in a sort of salmon & rice dish, chilli, thai green curry, chicken basque and as plain boiled rice generally.
many thanks for the links.
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Most Indian/Pakastani home cooks think of Basmati like we think of fine wine, as in not all brands are equal and there some disagreement (personal preferences) between the best ones.
When I'm shopping for Basmati, I go to the Indian/Pakastani shop (where the best brands are) and look for aged rice from the Punjab area of India, Basmati improves with age because it gets drier and less sticky when cooked.
You could always ask the shopkeeper because they will know which brand is the best. As with most things you get what you pay for but since Basmati is cheap anyway just buy the most expensive one and you wont go far wrong.
Hope this helps.
Craig :)
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I always use East End Royal Basmati rice....always perfect every time and no need to rinse...flavoursome and aromatic....
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Currymonster,
when u say aged rice i guess it states this on the packet. many thanks on rest of advice. i have asked the shopper keeper in the past and gradually got to know that only one of the staff knows his rice so to speak and he was not in the other night hence my dilemma.
Domi,
will check if the place i buy has the East End brand (i don't think it does as i know the name East End brand from buying the marg for the ashoka base)
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Jerry,
I think it normally states 'Aged' on the bag (i haven't got a bag to check against at the moment)
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thanks currymonster,
now that i've clocked onto this i will do a bit more surveying when i'm next in the shop. it really took me back to see 20 off or so varieties and how much they seem to vary over time based (i guess) on what's at the wholesalers.
i am also very intrigued on the bag the guy bought - it was in a hessian sack which most people would walk past quickly.
i will also note down a bag that i've bought before which is not up to spec (despite a heavy price).
cooking tonight on the new stuff - here's hoping
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the latest rice i bought (Chenab) i think is ok but well short of some that i've had before.
surprisingly there appears to be a huge difference in the cooking time of the various rices. for example i usually bring to boil, simmer on v.low for 15mins then leave to stand 10 mins. for the Chenab this weigh over cooks it. i'm down to 7 mins simmer and 5 mins standing.
following the disappointment from a packaging that promised much - i've had another gander round the shop. despite reading pretty much every bags packaging - i gleaned no more on how to pick out the good ones.
i looked for "aged" and found only 1 off brand in about 25 ish (Laila).
i found Domi's East End Royal but i'm still recovering (i know u get what u pay for). at 13? per 5kg it reluctantly won't be going into the basket.
3 off varieties caught my eye: Laila, Neelam, MAP. i intend to google these in desperation.
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I have a 5 Kilo bag of aged Basmati rice. The bag is a cloth type, with a zip to close it and a plastic bag inside containing the rice. The name on the bag is Dawn and produced in Pakistan.
This is the first time i have used aged Basmati rice and you can really taste the difference. I cook by the absorption method and let it dry in the oven, on thelowest setting and have perfect results every time.
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qprbob,
well pleased u've got onto basmati - i swear by it although i only use it for non curry food (i prefer naan).
i'll add Dawn to the google list.
i'm sure "aged" is the key but not convinced all brands put it on the packaging - some seem to stamp a date as a means of proving it's vintage.
all interesting stuff.
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HiJerryM
I found Basmati rice a long time ago, but until now only used supermarkets own brand.
Whilst reading through a thread on rice, someone mentioned trying aged Basmati rice
when I last went to London i picked up an aged Basmati and gave it a go.
As said earlier, the taste is quiet different to cheap own brands. On my next visit to my parents I will pick up some more, but of a different brand, perhaps a little more expensive to what I paid last time, which was incidentally ?8.85 for 5Kg.
Here is a picture of the rice I'm using at the moment
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qprbob,
thanks for the photo. it looks spot on stuff. the price is about right for me expecting the price per kg a little lower on 20kg bag (i aim for around 30?).
from what i've gathered to date the Dawn looks as if u won't beat it even at a higher price.
the big trouble i find is the brands in stock keep changing ie i can't always pick up what i've had before. this works both ways. i'd just like to cut out the imitations which are still labelled as top quality basmati when there not.
must have a google today.
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I don't know if anyone else has had this experience and I'd be interested to know. When I used to eat plain boiled basmati rice at the BIR (I usually have pilau these days), it always had that very fragrant and unmistakable basmati aroma. This even when they claimed to use Tilda rice, which I personally happen to rate very low on the quality front.
Now, when I cook plain basmati at home, and I've used many brands over the years, I never ever get the same depth of fragrant basmati aroma. Does anyone else have this problem? Is it another BIR secret, i.e. the secret of bringing out the basmati fragrance to the full?
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Secret Santa,
u've got into words what's in my head and the reason for the post.
i suspect that it's like most things. i think more rice is being blended and sold as top notch when it's well short.
attached pic is of the best rice i've had - not expensive either - trouble is it no longer seems to be readily available - hence the need for alternative.
a ps - the "extra long grain rice" on the packaging is something that surprises me and may or not be a clue to quality of taste. i associate long grain with American which is not basmati.
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the big trouble i find is the brands in stock keep changing ie i can't always pick up what i've had before. this works both ways. i'd just like to cut out the imitations which are still labelled as top quality basmati when there not.
I often have this problem too Jerry, an added problem is that Basmati crops vary in quality over the years (like wine) so sticking to one brand may not be the best solution. IMHO the only way to get the best Basmati is to ask a friendly Indian/Pakistani shopkeeper or cook what is the best at the moment.
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currymonster,
i'm getting that feeling that it's no easy nut to crack. i have had success asking the shop keeper (the one's that know aren't always in when i go). i probably need a day in the store watching who buys what.
qprbob,
could i ask u to take photo of the dawn rice for info. i feel at the mo that i'd like the shop keepers to have a little container of the opened rice on show.
have taken pic of the Chenab (not as good as it makes out) and the Shahmir (v.good). without thinking i would naturally go for the LH rice down to the whiter appearance. Wrong - the Shamir is RH and has a slightly brown/darker appearance. the end of each piece of rice seems to have a white spot on it and there seems to be much more consistency of the grains ie they look the same. the Chenab looks as if some other rice has crept in with the good stuff. the trouble is quite a lot crept in by the look.
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JerryM
Here are a couple of photos of the rice.
On the left is the Dawn aged Basmati and on the right Sainsbury's own brand. As you pointed out, the better rice seems to be darker in colour. Whether some producers bleach their rice, believing that's what the consumer wants, I don't know, but what I do know the darker rice being aged tastes so much better.
the rice on its own is the Dawn variety. Hope this is what you were after Jerry.
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I don't know if anyone else has had this experience and I'd be interested to know. When I used to eat plain boiled basmati rice at the BIR (I usually have pilau these days), it always had that very fragrant and unmistakable basmati aroma. This even when they claimed to use Tilda rice, which I personally happen to rate very low on the quality front.
Now, when I cook plain basmati at home, and I've used many brands over the years, I never ever get the same depth of fragrant basmati aroma. Does anyone else have this problem? Is it another BIR secret, i.e. the secret of bringing out the basmati fragrance to the full?
Hi SS
I find the very opposite to be the case on both fronts. When eating out or ordering a T/A I always get plain boiled rice and invariably (especially so recently) they end up fobbing off what is obviously ordinary long grain American patna type rice as basmati. It doesn't seem to matter wether it's an up market style gaff or a sawdust and spittoon place, I can't remember the last time I got pukka basmati from a BIR. I put this down to the way the price has gone over the past year or so.
Tilda is the one brand of readily available rice that I have found to be consistently good over the years. If you look at their website you'll see that they operate a sort of fair trade policy and deal with local farmers co-operatives so ensuring quality and a good return for the growers, instead of just relying on the spot wholesale markets and going for the cheapest product.
How are you cooking the rice? Try using the absorption method with an Asian(cinnamon)leaf and leave it in a (very) low oven, the aroma develops slowly and is amazing.
Regard
CoR
ps. That Dawn stuff looks really good, never seen it round here, will make some enquiries.
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I live on the Isle of Wight and there are no Asian stores on the Island. When going back to my parents or when they come down here, that's when I get my supplies, but always manage to forget something. the Dawn rice was bought in an Asian store in Queensbury Middlesex. My parents live in Harrow and we are spoilt for Asian grocery stores, and each one differs due to the fact some are run by Bangladeshis or Pakistanis and Indians.
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qprbob,
thanks for photo - sorted.
i'm now convinced it's the darker stuff to aim for and aged whenever possible.
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Jerry, it may be that the colour difference is due to whether the rice is hulled and polished (the white colour) or not (the darker colour).
Either that or the darker colour may be because the rice has maybe gone off!
Arguable, the whiter it is the "better" it is (or at least the more expensive it is) since you're no doubt paying for the extra processing involved in getting it white.
I understand that a couple of years aging (up to maybe ten years) is pretty normal.
Basmati rice is also a "long-grained" rice (opposed to "medium-grained" or "short-grained").
The best basmati allegedly comes from the foothills of the Himalayas (where the unique climate allegedly best suits it's growth).
You should probably look for a basmati rice that is:
- From the foothills of the Himalayas (often of Pakistani origin)
- Has uniform, unbroken grains and no grit, residual husks, etc
- Has some reputable seal of quality approval
- Basmati from "Dehra Dun" is purportedly the best basmati of all
Like most things in life, you get what you pay for.
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As with most things BIR, I doubt many use "the best" basmati rice and no doubt strike a compromise between quality and price.
I suggest the better BIRs then develop the frangrance via their cooking methods.
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CA,
nicely timed. i'm aiming to do an in depth survey tonight and will look out for u say (Pakistan, 10 yrs & Dehra Dun). appreciate the clarification on the colour. i was getting a bit perplexed as i recall most that i've had in the past that were good were in deed white. i'd not even come across/aware of the darker variety until recently.
i agree fully on the BIR fragrance. my use is purely non curry when u do need the what u pay for. i just want to avoid the pay for imitations.
best wishes,
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i had a further look round my local armed with the additional knowledge.
1st up - there are a lot of bags packaged in the UK. i put these in one category as blended and will be staying well clear (i think these have much blame)
the best rice seems to be in the larger bags (20 & 45kg). for example i found CA's recommendation dehraduni - trouble is there was only 1 off shelf space and only in 45 kg (a defo possibility for the future).
very few have the words "aged" on them. very few have "extra long grain" on them. this chucks out a few more imposter's.
i asked the bosses wife for help. i was quite surprised that she said they are reluctant to recommend as peoples tastes (i read non asian) vary and this can lead to disappointment. we had a good chat. chenab despite all it says on the packaging is not good. it's now on offer and perhaps that's another good marker.
in the end she recommended 3 brands. the best fit (limiting myself to 10kg range as i'm already awash with the chenab) was Zebra. it looks very promising. of the other 2 one was tilda (with i'm undecided on) and the other (White Pearl) too expensive at 20? for 10 kg.
i've started googling and having a look at a few mills.
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Hi
Don't dismiss the packaged in the UK statement. Due to taxation on rice coming into Europe allready milled. Most rice on sale will have been milled and packaged in the EU. Look more for where the rice was grown, if it says basmati but does not mention much else. Most likely to be from the USA. Get hold of The Rice Book by Sri Owen. For a beter in-site. I tend to stick to Pakistani grown.
Commis
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the best fit (limiting myself to 10kg range as i'm already awash with the chenab) was Zebra.
Be careful Jerry, this rice buying business is a bit of a grey area, it's not all black and white you know! ;D
one was tilda (with i'm undecided on)
Despite what the blurb on the pack might say, I still don't rate Tilda. I personally wouldn't make this my first choice.
and the other (White Pearl) too expensive at 20? for 10 kg
Well I've heard very good reports on this, but for the life of me I can't recall whether I've tried it myself. But perhaps that fact means that, if I have, it wasn't that good, or perhaps my memory is just fading. Probably the latter!
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Commis,
many thanks - will see if i can get the book via library (i'm not that keen on the subject to buy anything).
the UK packaged did not have any useful information on the packaging to distinguish between the top notch and poor. i need to continue the read up on the UK mills. 1st impression is they don't seem to want to say what rice variety goes into each product - hence the alarm bell as they deal in the full spectrum of rice quality.
Secret Santa,
i'm not going for the tilda either. any producer who has that much to say leaves me questioning why, particularly after the chenab experience (promising much yet delivering far below it's promise).
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These links are quite a good read. The second and third being the results of a fake basmati investigation by the FSA. As you can see in the table (the third link) the results for each brand often differ between the quantities sold which makes things v complicated!
The uk food standards agency say that 'super kernal' is not an approved variety of rice but i think two people in this thread said it was the best they had tried. Very comfusing!
http://basmati.com/index.php?news=104&vote=5&aid=104&Vote=Vote
http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/fsis4704basmati.pdf
http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/fsis4704results.PDF
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chinois,
many thanks for the links. the basmati.com site is v.good generally.
i've pretty much given up going any further - at the end of the day u need to be able to open the packet up and view the rice (u can't rely on what the packaging says or the brand or the country of origin).
i have learnt that it's the "chalkiness" that i don't like. but this is not listed on any packageing. neither is the amylose content (which is key to the texture).
i've also realised that quite a few of the basmati rices don't have any aroma (at all).
in short my tack going fwd i'm looking for:
1) extra long or super
2) aged
3) a grain length of ~7.45mm
there does not seem to be any direct way of pinning these requirements down to individual brands and hence there will continue to be hit and miss to some extent when buying something new.
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chinois
Thanks for the links, makes interesting reading.
The rice that I'm using at the moment is Dawn Super Basmati Rice.
Although it is maketed and distributed by Red Sea UK Ltd, the rice has accreditation for Australia and New Zealand, wether this is just a company accreditation or specificaly for rice I don't know.
JerryM
Another thing you might want to look for in your quest for the perfect rice is that the Dawn variety is par boiled. I soak it for 2 hours as stated on the packedging and when you rinse it, there is very little starch, which makes for lovely seperate grains when cooked.
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qprbob,
does the "par boil" mean it's already part cooked? i've not come across it.
the tip on soaking the rice is something i sometimes try (not always any better but i think my main dislike is the chalkiness in the texture when eating). i did look for the "Dawn" brand on my last trip but alas not stocked.
i have not tried the new stuff (Zebra) yet and finding ways of using up the old so i'm happy at the mo and armed with what we've discussed feel i am better aware to avoid the poor stuff in the future.
the whole subject seems a bit of a doggy area for sure.
best wishes
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JerryM
I have to agree, it's a very grey area. Since reading that post from Chinois, I will be a lot more wary as to what I buy in the future. I can't answer your question on whether the rice was par boiled or not, I'm only going by what's on the packet. As said in a previous thread, I'm happy with what I have at the moment, but will try a more expensive aged rice next purchase to see if there is any difference.
Regards Bob
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Jerry,
If it's "parboiled" or "easy cook" or "converted" rice, then it's parboiled before being milled (by steaming under high pressure, apparently) making the grains harder and much harder to break down, overcook and become stodgy.
It may also help you with reducing the "chalkiness" (starch I guess?) you describe.
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making the grains harder and much harder to break down, overcook and become stodgy.
CA,
many thanks for the clarification.
"parboiled" without your context was putting me off it for sure - i was associating it incorrectly in the basket of ready meals (or along those lines).
i will certainly look out for it and give it a try.
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Hi All, i am a complete nw beginner to this site and I have found some great tips. (the base)I never knew about but my african friend cooks her fish with a similar base and technique i:e blending and boiling garlic ginger onions and tomatoes, ect... The taste is delicious...
So I tried a base today but it never tasted as good as my own style curries which lean more on the traditional. However i will keep trying...
One thing I noticed was this post on basmati rice. after researching up on the net it appears there are a lot of phoney basmati rice out there. apparently if it has "super" int he label I am afraid this is a genetic hybrid and not of the original patent. although if there is the original thing it reains to be seen. As the oficial recognised ones seem also to come from an original stock seed but may have been altered at some point down the line to produce more grains perhaps..
Anyway Ranbir basmati which comes from that region in pakistan Jammu is meant to be an official recognised one.
Anyone know where one could get some ?
I recently used Kohinoor and steamed it as I usually do and it was lovely, flavour texture, elongated separate grains. Rinsed well without soaking. Heat off after 15 mins on low and staeamed in own heat with lid on.
Any help would be great.
Also if anyone has any great dal recipes. Im longing for that lovely taste I had in a curry house in India when over there, where the locals ate and not the tourists (except me and partner) the one with smokey dal taste and caramelised onions..to die for..
greatly appreciated any help and tips thanks.
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nefer,
appreciate your input.
i'll drop "super" from my shopping list and just aim for the extra long.
i've never seen Ranbir anywhere in the UK (it may not be imported).
the Kohinoor i've seen in a few shops. i'll check the packaging on my next visit - sounds from your description exactly what i'm after.
on the base and your need to compare with a more traditional slant - perhaps add a new post in some way (perhaps to compare ingredients). i'd also add that there is quite a difference in taste of the bases on the site and some will sit better i'm sure with your taste buds than others will ie you may not have found the ideal one for you yet.
can't help on the dal (i'd have to admit i've never tasted). perhaps another post on this subject too.
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Storage period, temperature and moisture are the key traits, accountable for variation in chemical, cooking and sensory attributes of rice. The study of two promising varieties of fine Basmati rice stored at various temperatures revealed pronounced influence of storage on various quality traits i.e. volume expansion ratio, water absorption ratio, elongation ratio, alkali spreading value, amylose contents and sensory attributes. The cooking quality was affected significantly in the months following harvesting. Freshly harvested Basmati varieties (Basmati Super and Basmati-385) were aged for a period of sixteen weeks (4 months) at different temperatures (5, 25, 35, and 45?C). Aging of rice played imperative role in establishing the aforesaid quality traits. Storage condition resulted in increased moisture, water absorption ratio, volume expansion ratio and elongation ratio while amylose content and alkali spreading value of both rice varieties were decreased. The protein content showed insignificant differences. Storage of both varieties at 35?C gave best results for sensory attributes like taste and over all acceptability. Basmati Super showed better performance in cooking and eating quality than that of Basmati-385 during storage.
So from this I deduced that super Basmati seems to be the one to go for. All vey confusing.
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qprbob, nefer,
i've re checked my notes - we have to keep "super basmati" on the shopping list (keeping in mind that the grain must be longer than 7 mm - proof that it is what it's claimed).
it's when super is mixed with other words that we need to be wary. as i understand it "super basmati" is protected whilst "super kernel" could well be (read highly likely) to be the hybrid nefer was alerting us to.
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If you like going to the cinema and want to get a "free" bag of Tilda rice to try out at the same time go here: http://www.freecinematicketsfromtilda.co.uk/
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JerryM
I have measured the Dawn rice and each grain is 7mm. If you can find this product anywhere, I urge you to try it, as it meets all your criteria.
Bob
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Bob,
will keep a look out for the Dawn - the pic helps greatly (a trip to rusholme is the only hope which is a bit of a jaunt and i tend to go for a few things at once).
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opened the Zebra - it's the real stuff no messing. just seeing the top of the pan at the end of the cooking - the huge individual grains say it all.
a couple of points of interest:
1) un cooked grain size over 7 mm
i measured a Zebra grain - well over 7 mm (the required 7.3 at a guess). i then measured the dreaded chenab feeling it would be a quick thumbs down. the 1st thing was that the grains varied in length unlike the zebra. some are less than 7 mm some around 7 mm. they were all (i measured around 10 grains) shorter than the Zebra. for me the emphasis on the 7mm must be on the "over" and even "well over" as there appears a fine line and 7 mm is "jagged" whilst 7.3mm makes a world of difference.
this 0.3mm difference would be hard to pick out in a shop and not therefore that usefull until u've bought the stuff which is too late.
2) pre soaking
the Zebra pack suggested pre soaking the rice in luke warm water for typ 30mins. this i did yet i normally don't. i'm beginning to think there are 2 options to the cooking. the zebra method is to pre soak and then add to boiling water. the method i've always used is to add to cold water and bring to the boil. i now think these 2 difference approaches are intended to deliver the rice to same end point and are key to the cooking
3) final steam timing
after the rice has just started to boil the zebra pack suggests watching the surface (u need a glass lid pan) until the water has reduced to the level of the rice. then turn down the heat to low and set the timer for the "slow steam" part of the cooking for ~8 mins. the method i've always used is to turn the heat low and set the timer (10mins) immediately the rice has just started to boil and then leave the rice to stand off the heat for 5 mins.
i think observing the level of the water might just help on the consistency front and intend to adopt it going fwd.
ps for info the zebra cooking instructions:
"For best results, rinse the uncooked rice for a few times with warm water, soak the rice in lukewarm water for 25-30 mins. Covered Pan Method: For one cup of rice, use 2 cups water. Add the soaked and drained rice in boiling water, stir once or twice. Boil the rice at medium high heat for about 5 mins or until the water level reduces below the rice. Reduce heat to low and let the rice simmer for about 5 - 8 mins. Fluff with fork before serving."
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JerryM
Next time I'm on the mainland, I'll look out for Zebra.
Was there any instructions for the absorption method, as I cook all my rice this way.
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qprbob,
certainly try the Zebra - i think however that the Dawn must be equivalent ie there won't be any gain for u (if the grains pass the threshold ie are truly best then the brand matters very little and the dawn is aged too).
i presume u mean open pan method. if so rinse & soak as before (i'd add that i'm not convinced on the need for either with the top notch stuff):
"Add already soaked and drained rice to a large pan of boiling water. Boil the rice for 8 to 10 mins and stir once or twice. Drain the water and cover the rice pan. Reduce heat to low and let the rice simmer for about 8 to 10 mins. Fluff with fork before serving."
it sounds a lot of extra phaffing to me when the covered pan method works a treat once it's optimized for the particular rice ie matched to the cooker being used (eg for the Zebra i'll try 12 mins low and 5 mins stand next time, the dreaded chenab only needs about 8 mins low but 10 mins stand)
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JerryM
Thanks for the info, but that's not what I was after. What I meant by the absorption method was that, you have a measured amount of rice and a measured amount of water. The rice is cooked for three minutes and then the heat is turned off, then left rest for 3 maybe four mins in its steam. You then have cooked rice with no draining of the cooking liquid. I say liquid because some times cook rice in stock. The lid is always on the pan during cooking and resting in the steam. The times and amounts are courtesy of Pat Chapman, although I don't go along with all the spices he uses.
I have posted on CA's perfect Pilau Rice Thread. I would post the link but I have no success with doing that as it doesn't link. If you know how to post the link properly, I would be grateful if you or anyone else could help.
thanks in advance
Bob
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qprbob,
the Zebra method for the absorption method was in my earlier post (july 8th):
"For best results, rinse the uncooked rice for a few times with warm water, soak the rice in lukewarm water for 25-30 mins. Covered Pan Method: For one cup of rice, use 2 cups water. Add the soaked and drained rice in boiling water, stir once or twice. Boil the rice at medium high heat for about 5 mins or until the water level reduces below the rice. Reduce heat to low and let the rice simmer for about 5 - 8 mins. Fluff with fork before serving."
what i was trying to say in this post was that i felt there method a bit ott. i don't bother rinsing or soaking. i weigh the rice and weigh x2 water. i put both in pan with glass lid and bring to boil on medium heat. just as it's coming to the boil i give 1 off stir, turn heat down to low and cook for 15 mins. i then remove from heat and leave to stand for 5 mins. each brand of rice seems to need slightly different times on the low heat in the range of something like 8 to 15 mins.
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...each brand of rice seems to need slightly different times on the low heat in the range of something like 8 to 15 mins.
I'll second that Jerry. I've unfairly trashed a couple of brands in the past before I realised this.
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what i was trying to say in this post was that i felt there method a bit ott. i don't bother rinsing or soaking
Jerry,
Yet you have a problem with "chalkiness" Jerry! :-\
They (and most other rice suppliers) no doubt suggest this as the BEST method (i.e. rinsing, pre-soaking) to produce the BEST results for good reason.
a) rinsing removes any debris, husks, starch and loose rice flour (residual from the milling process), etc. This results in more free-flowing grains of cooked rice (and reduced "chalkiness" Jerry?)
b) soaking reduces the cooking time/temperature required and results in longer grains of cooked rice
Additionally, cooking by absorption will result in longer grains of cooked rice.
Any rice, with uncooked grains over 7mm, indicates only that it is "long grained" rice but NOT that it is necessarily "basmati" rice.
Jerry, why don't you simply buy several small bags, of various suppliers of basmati, and try them to see which you prefer? :-\
Better still, why not ask your local BIR what they use (presuming you like theirs of course)?
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I'll second that Jerry. I've unfairly trashed a couple of brands in the past before I realised this.
Yes, I'm surprised to see your opinion on Tilda rice SS.
Personally, I find Tilda produces rice that is white, light, fluffy, fragrant, tasty and with nicely uniform and elongated grains. I'm not sure what more you'd look for or expect from a basmati rice? :-\
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CA
You are very knowledgeable on your rice. One thing I've noticed since being on this forum, is that you all rinse your rice first then soak. I've always done the opposite, soak for for how ever long, then rinse. Would this be detrimental or would it make no difference?.
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I no-rinse, no-soak, just fry to remove starch.
Curious to see if an interesting debate breaks loose...
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BTW - I use Tilda. Great results.
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And always absorption method. Last comment!
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CA,
appreciate your thoughts. i will try the chenab as a result again but rinsing and soaking 1st.
the chalkiness is the big problem for me with basmati. the chenab for example has loads of it whilst the Zebra none. the rinse and soak may make a difference - i still can't believe how poor the chenab is given what's on the packageing.
the 7 mm uncooked comes from details of the Pakistani rice: super basmati 7.45mm, PK385 6.73mm and IRRI-9 6.93mm. the PK385 & IRRI-9 both have chalkiness whilst the super does not.
the Zebra was recommended and it's exactly what i know u can get. the actual brand does not matter to me only the look of the cooked rice. the chenab was bought blind and despite great promise on the packaging failed completely to deliver. the lesson has been well noted by myself.
i'll take pics of the cooked chenab & Zebra to help appreciate the stark difference between the good and i'd have to say most of what's in our shops.
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One thing I've noticed since being on this forum, is that you all rinse your rice first then soak. I've always done the opposite, soak for for how ever long, then rinse. Would this be detrimental or would it make no difference?.
A very good question QPRB! I think your way probably makes more sense (in that you rinse it clean of the crap just prior to cooking!).
In practice, I tend to put the rice in a colander, rinse it well with running water, and then leave it there to "soak" for 30 mins or more.
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I no-rinse, no-soak, just fry to remove starch.
Curious to see if an interesting debate breaks loose...
Does frying "remove" the starch do you think Josh?
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CA
I have always done the pre-soak then rinse method. When you rinse until water runs clear, I believe that's when the starch is removed. If it was just left to the frying, surely you would be frying the starch and not removing it. I dare say someone on here is far more informed than myself. May be the frying does something to the starch molecules and there by, that could be the difference. Look forward to some answers, as I would love to get this correct.
Josh
I think this debate is about to break loose. It can only be good, as we will all learn together.
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I'll second that Jerry. I've unfairly trashed a couple of brands in the past before I realised this.
Yes, I'm surprised to see your opinion on Tilda rice SS.
Personally, I find Tilda produces rice that is white, light, fluffy, fragrant, tasty and with nicely uniform and elongated grains. I'm not sure what more you'd look for or expect from a basmati rice? :-\
I must have been buying some inferior grade of Tilda then. It's some time since I've used it and I definitely remember it did not have the basmati fragrance. I'll buy a small pack sometime and see if my opinion has changed.
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My main complaint would be that Tilda is not the most affordable of basmati rices by a long chalk
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Does frying "remove" the starch do you think Josh?
I think so, but I'm not that aware of the chemistry that goes on with soaking, rinsing or frying.
I do know that the frying method makes the best pilau I've made by a long shot.
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My main complaint would be that Tilda is not the most affordable of basmati rices by a long chalk
Yes it tends to be the most expensive but as I explained earlier in this thread there are good reasons for this, it is apparently ethically produced and traded so leading to a consistently good product. In the overall scheme of things just how expensive is it? A 2kg bag is ?5 in the Asian grocers (?7/8 in AsdaTesMorriSains) that works out at 50p per double serving, hardly a King's ransom.
As for cooking there shouldn't be any need to rinse good rice as it will have been polished in the milling so a quick gentle fry and then cooked by absorption does the trick every time.
Regards
CoR
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it is apparently ethically produced and traded so leading to a consistently good product. In the overall scheme of things just how expensive is it? A 2kg bag is ?5 in the Asian grocers (?7/8 in AsdaTesMorriSains) that works out at 50p per double serving, hardly a King's ransom
Hmmm, whatever "ethically produced and traded" is supposed to mean :-\
Either way, I pay about a half as much for my basmati. That is a significant difference, even for the domestic cook, never mind a BIR. I'd be very surprised if it's the workers in the paddy fields that are benefitting from this price difference! ::)
there shouldn't be any need to rinse good rice
Perhaps CoR, but if some people haven't necessarily got "good rice", have a problem with "chalkiness".....and that's what the packet instructions say to do....
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Josh
I also fry the rice as well as the spices,after soaking and rinsing. Soaking also plumps up the grains a little. Will have a go at just frying, and see if there is a noticeable difference in the taste.
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following CA's prompt (and the willingness to believe if i could that the back of the chenab pack is not a load of old chalk) i made 2 batches of rice last night which we had for tea along with a few bhajis.
the Zebra is for me top notch so i cooked it as i've always done - weigh the rice, x2 weight of water, into pan, lid on, just as it comes to boil turn v.low (3/4 of setting 1 on electric hob), cook for 10mins (i normally optimise this over a number of go's within a range of 8 to 15 mins), off heat leave to stand for 5 mins.
the chenab has no room on the packaging for cooking instructions (see initial post). however following the Zebra cooking instructions and CA's prompt i cooked as follows: weigh rice, rinse x2, soak 30 mins & drain, x2 weight of water, the rest as per above.
as CA predicted the chenab did taste much better. the chalkiness had almost gone. the rice remained what i'd call "sticky rice" though and had differing texture across the grains whilst eating it.
the Zebra did not taste as good as the previous go when i rinsed and soaked it. however it did not disappoint and was what i call basmati rice. the aroma is not as strong as i've experienced with other brands. there was no stickiness at all, separate huge grains all of the same texture.
conclusions:
1) rinse and soak makes a difference but not essential
2) the zebra consists of 1 type of grain and is in the super class (patent)
3) the chenab is a mixture of grains. it needs rinsing and probably soaking to get the best out of it. i suspect that most rice in the shops is this type and although branded as basmati is hugely different to the best stuff.
pics chenab & zebra
nb there was some water in the base of the pan of both batches and i would normally up the low ht cooking on the next go by 1 min and see how it turns out
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just had a real disaster - it's a tricky business this rice cooking malarky.
i thought i would try to adopt the rinse and soak pre cooking stage. after the soaking i re weighed the drained rice to work out how much water needed adding for the cooking. i also thought (big mistake) to reduce the amount of water to x1.5 (to reduce the water in the finished rice which seemed too high on the last go at cooking). i then netted off the extra weight of the soaked rice.
i should have stuck to x2 and netted off the extra weight of the soaked rice. the end result was grim - very hard rice.
the reason for the post being if u've got your rice right for yourself then stick to it and don't change - it becomes real hit and miss otherwise and the heartache's not worth the gain.
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have been trying a range of rice:water ratio's and have settled on using 10% less water ie weigh the rice then add x1.9 the rice weight in water. it seems to make a difference in that there appears to be less chance of getting overcooked rice.
i'm still cooking as before: bring to boil, then on low 15 mins followed by 5 min resting off the heat.
might be worth a try.
REv2 - apologies but the above stated 5 min resting time should have been be 10 mins
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making a bit of a hash on this
Rev3: the x1.9 above should have been x1.8 to give 10% reduction.
also i tried this with the dreaded chenab last night and although an improvement not yet quite there as a proven technique.
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have been trying a range of rice:water ratio's and have settled on using 10% less water ie weigh the rice then add x1.9 the rice weight in water. it seems to make a difference in that there appears to be less chance of getting overcooked rice.
i'm still cooking as before: bring to boil, then on low 15 mins followed by 5 min resting off the heat.
might be worth a try.
REv2 - apologies but the above stated 5 min resting time should have been be 10 mins
Hi Jerry,
I've never had a problem with rice and it really doesn't matter what grade basmati you buy. I even sometimes buy the value basmati from Tesco.
If you're using say 1 mug of rice, then wash it in a colander first until the water runs clear. Try not to agitate it with your hands too much or the rice will break in half. Then let the rice stand in the colander for a while.
I boil my rice first. So put it into a saucepan and cover it with boiling water. Add some salt and this is personal preference. Add just enough water so that its about 3/4" above the level of the rice. Too much water and the rice is soggy, not enough and it doesn't cook properly, so this is the bit that will be try and error for you, but about 3/4" is a good starting point.
Boil the rice for about 2-3 minutes hard, with the lid on so the lid is rattling!!!! Then reduce the heat to the lowest setting possible on you're cooker and just gently steam the rice for another 8-9 minutes or until the rice particles are just soft. This will give you the perfect boiled rice. Then take the lid off and just let it simmer for about another minute just so that any excess moisture in the rice evaporates.
If I am going to fry the rice, I would add a small knob of butter in a pan and add the cardamoms, cloves, cinnamon, cumin seeds, whatever whole masala you would want to use. However, after having washed the rice, then it needs to be totally dry. So I usually empty the rice onto a few sheets of kitchen towel and cover with a few more sheets. When the rice is dry I add it to the Whole cardamom mixture which would have been frying gently for about 20-30 seconds or until you get that aroma coming from the pan. Coat the rice well in the butter/whole masala mixture and fry for about a minute or so, then add the water as in the boiled section above and cook using that method.
If after the rice is done you are going to put it in the oven and make proper pilau rice, then you need to empty the rice into dishes and let it dry thoroughly before you finally add the colouring (if using) and finishing off in the oven at 50 deg C for about 20 minutes.
Once you have removed the rice from the oven, just fluff it up a bit with a fork.
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976bar,
many thanks - u may have something here. i add i'm only interested and talking boiled rice.
u're method is very much along the lines of what i'm doing with a subtle difference.
on the Zebra rice instructions it say's to look out for when the water level reduces below the rice suggesting that the to go period is critical. the prior volume of rice must also be critical. i'd add judging when the water level reduces is easier said than done.
i've been trying to control this through weight (make the cooking fool proof). u're method relies on volume. i think u're method will better cater for the different grain size across different brands ie the x1.8 method works spot on for Zebra and Shamir but still too high for chenab. x1.5 is too little for all 3.
i'll keep u posted.
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976bar,
many thanks - u may have something here. i add i'm only interested and talking boiled rice.
u're method is very much along the lines of what i'm doing with a subtle difference.
on the Zebra rice instructions it say's to look out for when the water level reduces below the rice suggesting that the to go period is critical. the prior volume of rice must also be critical. i'd add judging when the water level reduces is easier said than done.
i've been trying to control this through weight (make the cooking fool proof). u're method relies on volume. i think u're method will better cater for the different grain size across different brands ie the x1.8 method works spot on for Zebra and Shamir but still too high for chenab. x1.5 is too little for all 3.
i'll keep u posted.
Hi Jerry,
Trust me, adding water to the rice when the water level has gone down past the rice level will only result in soggy rice, no matter what grade of rice you use.
There will be sufficient water within the pot to finish the rice on. All I would say is don't keep lifting the lid of the pot as any condensation/steam will quickly evaporate and you might end up the other way and have rice which isn't cooked.
I've been cooking rice like this for over 10 years and once that lid is on it doesn't come off again until the rice is cooked.
Happy cooking :)
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I'm currently using "India Gate Classic - 1 year matured Basmati Rice" (recommended by the shop owner...but probably because he makes most profit on it ;)).
But it's very good, reasonably priced, loooong grains and soft, fragrant/aromatic. I'm not sure you'd do much better?
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I'm currently using "India Gate Classic - 1 year matured Basmati Rice" (recommended by the shop owner...but probably because he makes most profit on it ;)).
But it's very good, reasonably priced, loooong grains and soft, fragrant and aromatic. I'm not sure you'd do much better?
Hi CA,
Where do you get this from please? as I have not seen this one before and would like to try it :)
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I get it from the Asian store 976 ;)
.....which happens to currently be in Australia! :P
But, it's supplied by "KRBL Limted", an Indian company (Dheli) who, they claim, "are the world's largest rice miller and basmati rice exporters" (well, they would, wouldn't they ::))...but it IS good stuff! 8)
you can email them at customercare@krblindia.com
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I get it from the Asian store 976 ;)
.....which happens to currently be in Australia! :P
But, it's supplied by "KRBL Limted", an Indian company (Dheli) who, they claim, "are the world's largest rice miller and basmati rice exporters" (well, they would, wouldn't they ::))...but it IS good stuff! 8)
you can email them at customercare@krblindia.com
Ha Ha, I'll e-mail them to find out if it's distributed in England. I am sure it is......
So come on tell us......
Have you had the Koala Korma? or the odd Posum Madras?..... lol do tell all!! :)
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Trust me, adding water to the rice when the water level has gone down past the rice level will only result in soggy rice, no matter what grade of rice you use.
sorry not been clear enough. water for me too only goes in once and the lid then stays on.
what i think the packet instructions are saying is that ideally the start of the simmer is when the water is level with the rice. they (as u) use volume to get to the total amount of water to be added. i'd (i think) incorrectly thought weighing would be more accurate.
please post any details on the India Gate rice suppliers in the UK. i've not seen it locally.
i should just add that the cooked Zebra rice is 100% spot on for me. my interest is now in how to cook a poor quality rice (like the chenab) to get the best out of it. i still have not far short of 20kg of the stuff.
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Trust me, adding water to the rice when the water level has gone down past the rice level will only result in soggy rice, no matter what grade of rice you use.
sorry not been clear enough. water for me too only goes in once and the lid then stays on.
what i think the packet instructions are saying is that ideally the start of the simmer is when the water is level with the rice. they (as u) use volume to get to the total amount of water to be added. i'd (i think) incorrectly thought weighing would be more accurate.
please post any details on the India Gate rice suppliers in the UK. i've not seen it locally.
i should just add that the cooked Zebra rice is 100% spot on for me. my interest is now in how to cook a poor quality rice (like the chenab) to get the best out of it. i still have not far short of 20kg of the stuff.
Hi Jerry, as I said earlier, I sometimes buy the "Value" brand of basmati rice from tesco and still cook it in the same manner and have not had any problems yet.
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Have you had the Koala Korma? or the odd Posum Madras?..... lol do tell all!! :)
Yes, with tinned cherries, peaches, pears and banana fritters....mmmmmm, scrumptious! ;D
And don't forget the roo aloo...nice! ;)
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LOL Corry Ander!!! :)
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976bar,
i tried your method last night. not bad at all. the rice stuck a little to the bottom of the pan but that's picky and something i could sort.
i think the exercise has confirmed what i already know if the rice is substandard then the product will be same. the chenab cooked to it's best potential with this method and it was ok to eat but nothing special c/w say the zebra.
i realised the pan diameter affects the height of liquid. i settled on 15mm. i use 2 min boil and 8 min steam. in my money the weight of water was 20% less.
i will have to try the method a few more times before i can decide if it's better than what i already do. the only thing putting me off it that it's tricky to measure the depth of water above the level of rice. my wife was not impressed with the ruler going into the pan.
many thanks for helping to broaden my outlook on the cooking.
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976bar,
i tried your method last night. not bad at all. the rice stuck a little to the bottom of the pan but that's picky and something i could sort.
i think the exercise has confirmed what i already know if the rice is substandard then the product will be same. the chenab cooked to it's best potential with this method and it was ok to eat but nothing special c/w say the zebra.
i realised the pan diameter affects the height of liquid. i settled on 15mm. i use 2 min boil and 8 min steam. in my money the weight of water was 20% less.
i will have to try the method a few more times before i can decide if it's better than what i already do. the only thing putting me off it that it's tricky to measure the depth of water above the level of rice. my wife was not impressed with the ruler going into the pan.
many thanks for helping to broaden my outlook on the cooking.
Hi Jerry,
I use an 18mm non stick pan for my rice. I used to use a stainless steel pan but forgot to mention that the rice can stick a bit at the bottom.
So anything up to 2 mugs of rice in this size pan with that 1/2" to 3/4" of water above the rice level should work out just fine.
Hope this helps :)
PS. I've had the Piri Piri Chicken Marinating now for 24 hours and will be sticking on the coals this evening. I've taken pictures along the way and will post on here when all is done :)
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976bar,
i have to use stainless as it the only pan that i have that will take the volume of rice - i normally make in the region of 24oz which needs a big pan.
i do like the greater use of boiling and shorter steam in your method and will certainly work on it a little. i will also try with the zebra for comparison.
ps i raised doing the piri piri with the kids who blanked me (the heat is too hot for them). the adults are going for it this week though - many thanks. i think i might move my gas bbq into the garage this winter and try cooking inside given that the my stove works well.
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I've just started on a 2kg bag of Tilda which cost ?5, down from ?7 on special offer. And, as expected from my memory of using it some years ago, it turns out to be a thoroughly unremarkable rice, no better than some budget brands I've used. What a complete rip off.
I struggle to see how some people still rate this rice as anything special.
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it turns out to be a thoroughly unremarkable rice
What do you mean by "unremarkable" please SS? What is it that you are looking for? What is it that you feel is lacking in the Tilda Basmati?
it turns out to be a thoroughly unremarkable rice, no better than some budget brands I've used. What a complete rip off.
Which cheaper brands (and at what price) have you used please SS?
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Razor's post on the rice cooker and an empty bag of the dreaded chenab have prompted a revisit.
on the rice cooking - i'm sorted. i've essentially adopted 976bar's method but tweaked it to suit what i'm comfortable with. on the cooking the main improvements i've adopted are to bring the rice to a real boil before turning low (as per 976bar's instructions) and to reduce the amount of water to x1.6 instrad of previously x2 (inspired by 976bar's ruler method).
soaking in water for 30mins and drain before adding to the pan does help but too much effort i find for the extra improvement (helps grains from sticking together).
method for completeness:
1) weigh rice say 16oz and put in pan
2) weigh water @x1.6 ie ~26oz, put lid on
3) bring to boil (not a simmer but really boiling)
4) stir, turn down heat to very low (on my gas hob the lowest without flame going out - flames level with top of burner, something like setting 1 on electric)
5) set timer for 15 mins
6) take off heat and set timer for 10 mins
7) flick up from the edges towards the centre of the pan using a long "carving" type 2 prong fork.
on the rice i'm looking for next purchase. have in mind lubna, salaam, laila and MAP. the zebra is v.good but not quite there on aroma. i need the super kernel extra long grain stuff.
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Good heavens, that's 2lb 10oz, how many portions do you do at once?!
Incidentally, one of the better T/As round here serves up proper basmati if you order plain boiled (white) rice but broken basmati (probably Tolly Boy brand because that's the stuff all the cash & carries sell here) if you order pillau rice. What's that about, then?
Cheers
CoR
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CurryOnRegardless,
the 16oz of rice is only an example ie 16 oz rice needs 26oz of water or 1.6x the weight of rice. for us per portion ranges from 5 to 7 oz depending on what the rest of the dish is.
i've seen the broken rice (white pearl) - price is real cheap. the lady who i trust at the asian supermarket is not keen on it. amazing what u say though u'd expect the complete opposite.
it would be real interesting if any members have experience of using the broken stuff.
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i spent probably a good 1 hr around the rice in the Asian Superstore in Bolton this week. after much discussion the Lubna was just pipped by Kohinoor.
the packet is much the same as most giving no usefull information. the grain size @almost 8mm confirms it to be super basmati. needless to say this was bought on the owner's recommendation (the lady who suggested the zebra being her No2) and it does not disappoint. at 16? per 10kg it's not cheap. the only problem is that i'll have to buy a bag of 2nd tier rice as the kohinoor is too good to waste.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/c95e9724774253401c16850107c772c7.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#c95e9724774253401c16850107c772c7.jpg)
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this kohinoor is so good i've had to buy a tier 2 to use when i don't need the top notch stuff.
this stuff is real good - quite amazing though the price difference between tier 1 and 2 - ~?16 for 10kg of the kohinoor and ?18 for 20kg of the Salaam.
been well impressed with the Salaam so far - made pillau rice with it - very nice.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/f21514f9f69604e4cc1bad2ed9ce1928.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#f21514f9f69604e4cc1bad2ed9ce1928.jpg)
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Jerry,
Have you had any experience with Kohinoor Gold XL Basmati? I have managed to get a 5kg from Tesco for 9.99.
It looks quite like the picture of the Shahmir you posted and says 'aged to perfection' on the front. I haven't tried it yet as I am still using up what I have left.
I would be very interested to hear on your opinion of the rice itself and the price I paid.
Cheers.
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Jerry, in the interim, I decided I couldn't wait and tried this rice tonight. I was surprised by the results which were mixed. I soaked the rice for an hour which is where I think I went wrong, but i'll come to this.
After the soak and rinse I then added it to a boiling pan of water. The packet says ten minutes on a medium heat, but I found the rice cooked in only 5. The grain wasn't starchy and didn't stick together but amazingly it had doubled in length. I certainly wasn't expecting this, they were huge.
The taste was a little bland and I love rice. It just seemed to miss that umph. That said, it was by far the lightest rice I have every tried and I mean light.
Overall, I think I killed it by soaking it too long. I will try again by paying more attention to the instruction given. ::)
I just hope it's ok as I have another 5 Kilos of it!! lol
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Axe,
i rate the Kohinoor v.much although i've not come across the gold u refer to. the cost is high. u need to drop tesco and go Asian store for purchasing rice.
i am convinced too that soaking is not a good idea. rinsing to remove the starch yes. on the kohinoor i actually don't bother to rinse - mine is good enough.
i aim for a uncooked grain length of >7mm - this ensures aroma is present. there are 3 types of the real good basmati of which one type IRRI-90 does not have aroma. the super basmati and PK385 do. the problem is that u can't cross match the variety to the brand.
i'd add that there is a tendency to become too obsessed with the quality and miss the obvious - the cooking - recently i've found by the rinsing the salaam (0.5 price of kohinoor) i'm getting perfectly acceptable quality.
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Thanks Jerry.
I still can't get over how much the grain actually increased in length, it quite literally doubled.
I will try as you suggest and simply rinse next time. It's almost like the flavour was washed out during the soak. Another thing I noticed is that the grain was soft after the soak.
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Thanks Jerry.
I still can't get over how much the grain actually increased in length,
Another thing I noticed is that the grain was soft after the soak.
Axe,
it's the characteristic of the top notch stuff - as u say quite amazing.
with this good stuff it don't need that much cooking and if u get it too soft then the eat quality deteriorates significantly - rice pud.
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Interesting and reassuring to hear it is the right calibre so to speak.
The packaging offers 3 cooking techniques which I shall try to start with and i'll go from there I think. All require the rice to be soaked for 20-30 mins but I will go with your advice and try simply washed.
Method 1 is open pan and is 10mins in boiling water.
Method 2 is closed pan with 1.75 the volume of water with low heat and rest
Method 3 is microwaved with 1.75 times the volume of water and 300g of the rice.
Should prove interesting.
How do you find the better quality rice holds up when making flavoured rice such as Pilau?
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Axe,
i use method 2 and 1.6 the volume for plain rice (for none curry).
i use method 1 and 3 to 4 mins for pilau. for pilau we use only cheap rice.
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Hi Guy's.
Interesting reading.
I'll be completely honest, I will cook with any old rice, be-it Tilda, or Asda's own.
I always follow my trusted method:
1), Rinse rice really well, under warm running water, until the water runs clear.
2), Allow rice to dry completely (very important, if not, the rice will have too much water content, and the cooking times with be wrong.
3), If using my rice cooker, I use a 2:3 ratio, if using the boil method, I just add plenty of water and boil until, nearly done, drain, and put back in the pan, off the heat. The residual heat will finish the rice off perfect.
4), I sometimes add a small nob of butter and stir through with a fork.
I have used this method on really crap rice, and the good stuff too, with no real discernible differences. As long as the "eat quality" is good, once its mixed up with the sauce, I can never really tell the difference!
Ray :)
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Ray,
What I found surprising is how different this aged rice is. It is quite different to the usual Tesco or Tilda Basmati rice and produces quite different results. It certainly seems to cook much faster and seems less starchy.
Jerry, I commented on the the volume as I noticed you mentioned using 1.6x being very similar. Thought you might be interested to know. Your volume sits better with what I would normally do.
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Hi
Axe, I find your note on aged rice cooking faster interesting. I age my own rice and find that after the twelve months storage it has dried as ageing brings on and takes longer to cook!
Regards
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Commis,
I will admit that I formulated that based only Jerry's comments on the rice he buys and my experience so far of the rice that I have bought. It is some way different to the rice you find in a normal pack of basmati on the shelf at Tesco.
I have no idea of the ageing process so please forgive me. But when you say you age your own rice, is it the sort of rice you have bought from a supermarket or is it a superior branded basmati rice.
Tell you what, i'll go and do a blind test right now. Back in 15!
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Different brands of rice can take much longer to cook than others I find. Some rices are cooked in around ten minutes, others take more like 15. If I'm using a different brand I make a small batch first to get the cooking time, after that it's easy. I prefer VeeTee rice (cooks in 13 minutes is always nice and is never clumpy or sticky) though at the mo I'm working my way through a sack of Badshah (not bad but not as good as the VeeTee for me). I think you get what you pay for with rice.
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Well I have blind tested the rice and taken a few pics at timed intervals. I am rather pleased with the results and also quite surprised.
I cooked the rice straight from the bag in boiling water without rinsing with the total cooking time 10 mins.
The rice Kohinoor Gold XL Basmati 5kg. The grain size raw is on average between 8-9mm the colour in the picture is slightly darker than it is in normal light. Added to the boiling water I then timed it and tested at regular intervals.
At 6m30s Pic#4 it was just off being cooked. If I were to keep it warm in the pan, this is the point I would remove it from the heat to allow it to sit in the pan lid on having been drained. Grain size now reaching 11mm.
At 8mins Pic#5 the rice is cooked perfectly and the grain size on average is 12mm. Its light and fluffy without any undue starch. This the point I would remove the rice normally.
At 10mins Pic#6 the rice has reached the manufactures recommended cooking. I was surprised as I expected the rice to sticky and and quite mushy. However, it remained light and once rinsed in boiling water was as perfect as you would want it. The grain sized varied but on average was 12-13mm.
What I have learnt is that soaking is not a requirement and really nor is rinsing but I do intend to continue the test by soaking the rice for the required 20-30 mins as per instructions.
However, presoaking the rice as I did originally, reduced the length of time required to cook it and helped to increase the grain size and made it lighter still.
Until my soak test, I can only conclude that there is a balance but the test will prove this, with this particular rice anyway.
Pic#1
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/127632e4b8a7e0de43b8066f05fa795e.jpg)
Pic#2
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/9701451a1c221c324fdeef4542165073.jpg)
Pic#3
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/5e2835c0b96f37189d1555729999031e.jpg)
Pic#4
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/36114c9196be7ff8a376af3da3e4d530.jpg)
Pic#5
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/88776a82e83b233a2c9aa0ddeb385821.jpg)
Pic#6
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/37fb65443b6c98a672ce33c809314b15.jpg)
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Great work Axe.
Interesting that you didn't need to rinse the rice before hand. I have heard of many reports also suggesting this, however, I have heard about the same amount saying that rinsing is a must.
I wonder if it has something to do with the quality/cost of the rice? I know the cheaper ones that I buy do require a lot of rinsing, as evident by the amount of loose rice powder that rinses away. With that said, I haven't tried to cook it without rinsing.
I can't imagine the BIR's buying the top quality stuff either so I wonder if they rinse or not?
I do know that soaking rice in salted water, bleaches the rice really white, although, what's use this is, is anybody's guess?
Ray :)
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Well, I truly have been educated here thanks to Jerry. I would never have bitten the bullet to buy a bag of rice this size thereby enjoying a very different brand and type of rice not available on the regular shelf at a supermarket.
This particular rice, produces a very light and clean grain once cooked. It's certainly quite a distance from other rice I have tried. I am not suggesting though that it is this distance better in taste as it clearly has less taste compared to a supermarket rice. But as I have learnt on here oh so many times, I am keeping an open mind about this. It could be that this rice being refined is just not what I am used to,preferring a heavy starchy flavour. But I won't be able to determine this, until I have tried Jerry's preferred grain for comparison.
Perhaps if you fancy it Jerry, I could post some to you for your opinion? I'd hate for someone to buy 5kg of rice only to find they don't like it.
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Hi
Axe, I'm still chasing up your earlier question but gold is not there best.
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I've just visited the website and Gold doesn't appear on the site. The most expensive they seem to do is simply named Basmati and they also have a Silver but not Gold.
How odd. ???
EDIT toadd the following quote I found on the launch of the Silver, Gold and Platinum:
Platinum is the age-old and rare variety of traditional basmati rice, which is grown only in the foothills of Himalayas. Gold is the extra long basmati rice, which is the longest basmati rice available and Silver is the new generation super basmati rice, which has all the qualities of traditional rice and yet it yields is more.
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I commented on the the volume as I noticed you mentioned using 1.6x being very similar. Thought you might be interested to know. Your volume sits better with what I would normally do.
Axe,
as Razor importantly pointed out the rinsing does add weight to the rice (quite a lot in fact). the x1.6 is the total amount - i weigh out the water added by the rinsing. automatic to me ie i weigh the rice before and after rinsing and then add the amount of extra water to make x1.6 in total.
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Jerry, I tested the rice again last night having washed the rice first. I weighed out 200g of rice dry, rinsed and washed the rice, drained and weighed again. The weight was now 220g an increase of 10%. Is this similar to the weight differences you have experienced?
Something I have had to look at though is the measurement of dry rice per portion. The recommended weight as given is 75g per potion. I usually use 1 cup measure in volume for myself the wife and two children and this always works perfectly, the weight of rice is 180g. The 200g portion I made up to last night produced in my opinion, just about four adult portions of rice. So 75g of uncooked rice is far too much per portion. I will stick to my 1 cup measure for now, as it suits us best as a family but what weights are others using? I imagine 50g per portion is about right.
Back to the rinsing of the rice and the effect it has on the cook. Having soaked for about 2 minutes, I then rinsed the rice and followed the 10 min boil as before. I found that the rice was not as good as the blind test, being slightly over saturated with water but not sticky. This confirms that it only needs 8 mins to cook as I would prefer.
The bonus is that the wife who isn't a big fan of rice, actually quite enjoys this grain. The jury is still out for me as I can't help but feel it is slightly lacking in flavour, but with 4.5 left, I have plenty of time to get used to it. lol
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Hi
Axe,they say that they use year old paddy but this is generally classed as lower grade for milling. This is very odd.
Regards
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Hi commis, sorry you've lost me there, who uses 'paddy'?
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Hi
Axe, Kohinoor state that they use year old paddy rice for milling.
Regards
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I am certainly in the dark here. I would say taste wise that Tilda is far superior as it has taste, but the Kohinoor Gold I have currently is better texturally. It is light and less starchy than tilda, but is less flavour packed.
So the questions I have to ask, is what is the best basmati rice. I don't want to buy 20kilo's of the stuff to experiment!