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Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Bobby Bhuna on March 29, 2009, 06:27 PM

Title: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on March 29, 2009, 06:27 PM
I live in Corstorphine in Edinburgh. I don't have a great BIR anywhere near but most are acceptable. Last night, I tried the only one I hadn't tried before on recommendation from my Pakistani friend from work. It was alright, second best in the town IMO.

The thing is, I think I can actually reproduce the difference curries accurately from each BIR. It's quite obvious for the major things what has and has not went in the base. Again, it's quite obvious what has and hasn't went in at the curry stage. Last night's curry's base was mostly onions with some tinned tomatoes, and a shed load of blended garlic and ginger. Not too much tomato paste in the final curry and only a light spicing of cumin and coriander, garnished with some fresh coriander leaves.

What I'm trying to get at, is that after all the experiements, and recipes tried, I think I can actually pick out what's in an "acceptable" takeaways recipe. I'm sad to say, that the ingredients in my favourite BIRs still elude me.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: windybum on April 01, 2009, 03:10 AM
Hi Bobby,

I joined this site to be able to come as close to my local as possible, although I'm not there yet I'm well on my way and have to say exceeded all of my expectations. m y friends now preffer my cooking ..they say it tastes fresher... more flavoursome.. but they are probably just saying it to be nice, where else can you get a 10 dish buffet for free?
I want to crack a good ct korahi and although the ashoka is good i am experimenting with pataks kashmir,tandoori,tikka pastes as hinted to me by my local t.a waiters combined with a little yogurt and frozen in icecube trays ready to Be popped out as and when, if i crack it ill post it.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Curry King on April 01, 2009, 11:39 AM
The thing is I am not over keen on most of the average places near me so always try and emulate the better BIR's that I go to.  I think this puts me in a half way situation, better than the average BIR's around my area but I don't think they are as good as my favourite BIR.  Saying that I have had dodgy curry's from all of them and quite a few emerge from my own kitchen  :P
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Derek Dansak on April 01, 2009, 01:13 PM
dansak, and vindaloo, and korma are simple. however madras remains very tough. Is this because it is essentially a very low spiced simple recipe that relies heavily on the bir 'taste'.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: parker21 on April 01, 2009, 04:55 PM
hi winybum
there is a tandoori masala recipe on this site that uses pataks pastes, tandoori, tikka and kashmiri masala mixed with sugar coconut powder and cream . i have used it and my friend loves my CTM, and pete had sen a demo using this masala in a restaurant CTM.
regards
gary ;)
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: SnS on April 01, 2009, 05:05 PM
I reckon I can knock up a Madras as good as most of my local TA's .. although a Madras (as well as others) can vary quite a lot between different places. They also vary in taste from week to week (depending on which chef cooks it). A Madras from a TA on one particular day is often totally different to a Madras from the same BIR on a different day.

My present challenge is to duplicate the tiger prawn Jalfrezi from the Saffron (my favourite dish) which is quite consistent. I'm 99% there I reckon.

SnS  ;)
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on April 01, 2009, 05:29 PM
dansak, and vindaloo, and korma are simple. however madras remains very tough. Is this because it is essentially a very low spiced simple recipe that relies heavily on the bir 'taste'.

Yeah, I have always found the Madras (or just a plain chicken curry) most difficult of all.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on April 01, 2009, 05:34 PM
They also vary in taste from week to week (depending on which chef cooks it)

Even day to day! It kills me, I once had the holy grail of Madras. I was almost in tears it was so.... beautiful!   ;D It made me want to burn my spice cupboard to smite my wretched attempts. Went back the next day for another piece of heaven and it was gone. Never to come back. Gutted :'(

I still venture along from time to time. It's still the best in Edinburgh that I've been lucky enough to come across (and I've tried 8 so far)
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: SnS on April 01, 2009, 05:37 PM
....or even hour to hour  ::)
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on April 01, 2009, 05:39 PM
....or even hour to hour  ::)

....or even mintue to minute  ;D
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: SnS on April 01, 2009, 05:40 PM
........ not going there!  ;)
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: billycat on April 01, 2009, 06:16 PM
Any chance you could put your madras recipe up sns please
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on April 01, 2009, 06:47 PM
I reckon there must be dozens of members of this forum who can do the business. My standard response to a lot of take out or it in curries is, "yeah not bad but I can  do just as good myself".

Do others feel the same, my guess is yes, and that, in itself shows how good this site is.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on April 01, 2009, 08:58 PM
Any chance you could put your madras recipe up sns please

Click here: SnS' Madras Recipe (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2783.msg24753#msg24753)
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Secret Santa on April 01, 2009, 09:06 PM
..."yeah not bad but I can  do just as good myself".

Do others feel the same, my guess is yes, and that, in itself shows how good this site is.

An alternative interpretation, which I believe to be closer to the truth, is that todays BIRs are well and truly sub standard.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Bobby Bhuna on April 01, 2009, 09:29 PM
An alternative interpretation, which I believe to be closer to the truth, is that todays BIRs are well and truly sub standard.

I know what you mean. That's the reason for "average" in the title. It's hard to get a good one. They hold their secrets tight to their chest!
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: two-sheds on April 03, 2009, 01:54 PM
my idea of an average curry is one low in tired aromatic flavours that only linger for a few hours and disappear, these are  fairly easy to replicate as i have proved  myself many times!! conversely a good curry (in my opinion)is one with vibrant aromatic flavours that linger on your taste buds for at least 24hrs ie well into the following day. The nearest i have come to this was "SnS's madras and base june 08" which i have made/attempted on several occasions but on one occasion i produced an exceptional curry with flavours that lingered well into next day . I'm not sure what i did differently but with more practise i hope to get there more often.

thanks SnS
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: emin-j on April 03, 2009, 08:57 PM
Hi All,
I can honestly say due to the members on this forum who's recipe's I have followed ( and modified  ;) ) and all the research I have done ( hours on Youtube etc  :)I can now produce a Madras , Pilau Rice , and Onion Bhaji , consistently as good or even better that my favourite T/A. Over the weeks I made  small changes to the  ingredients and am now very happy with the results ,the wife loves the Curry also and she is very fussy ! but not keen on the state of the kitchen ( looks like a turmeric bomb has gone off  ;D
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on April 04, 2009, 08:04 AM
..."yeah not bad but I can  do just as good myself".

Do others feel the same, my guess is yes, and that, in itself shows how good this site is.

An alternative interpretation, which I believe to be closer to the truth, is that todays BIRs are well and truly sub standard.

This suggests that my curries are also no more than sub-standard? (and, by implication, many of the others' on this site. But I'm sure that's not what you meant Santa!!!
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: parker21 on April 04, 2009, 11:48 AM
hi stephen this is not meant as a critisism or to put down anyone, but what does this say about most of todays BIR. thngs have changed over time and things have been lost, whether techniques and methods (ie ways of doing things) have changed ingredients have been sourced differently. many people who have been trying for many years since the 1970's at least to recreate the "old school curries" that they remember eating then. sitting in an aroma filled restaurant with flock wallpaper, poor lighting, indian music playing in the background etc. and eating the best curries with that taste and smell that they will never forget and never going to be able to recreate unless they can get hold of a very old 'indian/bangladeshi/punjabi' chef that will pass on that wisdom. it could also be due to health and safety reasons that things changed!
most peeps just want to able to recreate their locals madras or vindaloo or CTM and happy to get close just as long as they have the taste that they are looking for. regionality and personal taste differ greatly and so does what we are all looking for but a good curry will have that taste and this is your taste!

if you are cooking your curries and are happy and then someone says this taste and smells like a takeaway or better tahn a restaurant they have been to just smile to yourself and say thank you ;)
kind regards
gary
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Cory Ander on April 04, 2009, 01:42 PM
This suggests that my curries are also no more than sub-standard? (and, by implication, many of the others' on this site. But I'm sure that's not what you meant Santa!!!

I think that's what SS certainly meant SL.

Many members are happy with producing curries similar to their "average" local takeaways.  And. of course, there is nothing at all wrong with that. 

But, I believe, SS's point is that many BIRs nowadays serve curries totally inferior to those available in years gone by.

And, for some of us, it is THESE curries that we are trying to reproduce.

Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: SnS on April 04, 2009, 02:29 PM
This suggests that my curries are also no more than sub-standard? (and, by implication, many of the others' on this site. But I'm sure that's not what you meant Santa!!!

I think that's what SS certainly meant SL.

Many members are happy with producing curries similar to their "average" local takeaways.  And. of course, there is nothing at all wrong with that. 

But, I believe, SS's point is that many BIRs nowadays serve curries totally inferior to those available in years gone by.

And, for some of us, it is THESE curries that we are trying to reproduce.

I agree. There are very few restaurants or TA's able to produce the same quality curry that some of us older guys experienced in the 70's ...

... an experience unlikely to return .. at least commercially.

SnS  :-\
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on April 04, 2009, 03:53 PM
I can't say what "most other members" on this site are trying to reproduce (though others on here clearly think they can). I won't even try to speak for others until I have tasted their cooking, which is different from trying their recipes. Other people can speak for their own standards.

I am not setting myself up as an expert or saying that saying my curries are any better or worse than anyone else here. All I can say is I think my curries taste damn good, and I do not regard them as sub standard.

Take the Ashoka thread for example. This was quite a busy item and a few of us (including me) tried the base, bunjara etc. It tasted superb and certainly not sub-standard. Even though I agree that many takeaways produce a fairly uninspiring product that doesn't mean most members are aiming for the same. I think we need to try and avoid huge generalisations here.

Let's face it if you are going to try and produce a gourmet burger you wouldn't take McDonalds as your benchmark. As long as I can produce damn good tasting curries I will be a happy curry eater and I am always on the look out for new recipes and techniques here. One of the good things about this site is that there is enthusiasm and ideas aplenty, which I regard as far from sub-standard.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Secret Santa on April 07, 2009, 09:05 PM
..."yeah not bad but I can  do just as good myself".

Do others feel the same, my guess is yes, and that, in itself shows how good this site is.

An alternative interpretation, which I believe to be closer to the truth, is that todays BIRs are well and truly sub standard.

This suggests that my curries are also no more than sub-standard? (and, by implication, many of the others' on this site. But I'm sure that's not what you meant Santa!!!

What I'm saying is that all the curry houses I now visit seem to serve curries without the smell and taste that made them so desirable some time ago. Many, if not all, of the curries on this forum can match or better these 'sub standard' restaurant's offerings. So I suppose by implication I am saying that your curries and everyone elses curries are sub standard if you are matching this type of BIR curry.

It's not really meant as an insult, it's merely pointing out that as far as good BIR curries go you, and many others it seems, have missed the boat. Unfortunately it's a bit of a catch 22, because I can't recommend a BIR to prove my point as they no longer seem to exist!

Quote
All I can say is I think my curries taste damn good, and I do not regard them as sub standard.

That's because, I surmise, you haven't tasted and smelled the old style curries. Believe me when I say even you would admit your own curries are sub standard when going head to head with those.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Secret Santa on April 07, 2009, 09:15 PM
... an experience unlikely to return .. at least commercially.

SnS  :-\

I tend to agree with you, and I find it soul destroying for two reasons.

1. I want to savour that incredible taste and smell just once more before I kick the bucket.

2. I want to be able to invite some of the disbelievers to have one of the old style curries and, after they've picked themselves off the floor, rub their bloody noses in it and say, "there you f***wit, that's what a bloody BIR curry tastes like!".   ::) ;D
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: commis on April 08, 2009, 08:39 AM
Hi

Apologies if you have been asked this before SS. Could you please name these places, location and year. I myself miss the Balti houses of Staffordshire from the 80's.

Regards

commis
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: billycat on April 08, 2009, 09:24 AM
i can remember two of those curry houses SS is talking about  but they are from liverpool

one was the Kismet and the other was the kohi Noor
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on April 08, 2009, 10:10 AM
I don't think you are in any position to tell me that I have missed the boat
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Stephen Lindsay on April 08, 2009, 02:42 PM
Quote
All I can say is I think my curries taste damn good, and I do not regard them as sub standard.

Quote
That's because, I surmise, you haven't tasted and smelled the old style curries. Believe me when I say even you would admit your own curries are sub standard when going head to head with those.

That's the problem with your generalisations, they are based on assumptions and lack of knowledge about what people have and haven't experienced.  You are also expressing opinions as if they are fact, they are not, they are just your opinions. I don't know what age you are or what your experience of curries is, but you seem to want to surmise what mines is - and you have got it wrong as I have been eating curries for over 30 years and therefore by your definition I must have smelled and tasted the old style curries. I don;t have to admit anything. In fact I think the old style curries is yet another generalisation and locally we have several curry houses producing excellent food but that's only my opinion, one in which, no doubt, you will try to dismiss with another generalisation or opinion disguised as fact.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: parker21 on April 08, 2009, 07:26 PM
hi stephen, dude don't take it personally mate :) he is not saying your a crap cook or that you have not had a curry with the taste and the very distinctive smell you only get with BIR food. if you have had a curry with the taste and smell and can reproduce it then i'm sure you would remember it and then it would be great if you post your recipes so that we can all do it ;)
what you have to remember is everyone is different and just because 1 person says in his opinion that generalises across the board, unfortunately regionality and personal tastes ie what we are all looking for will be different!

cheers and keep smiling after all curry is fun ;D
regards
gary
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Curry King on April 09, 2009, 07:06 PM
I've only been eating curry the last seven years or so and wouldn't know an 'old' style BIR curry if it jumped up and slapped me in the face.  An old style curry to me  has raisins in it and was made by my mum  :D

Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: CurryOnRegardless on April 10, 2009, 09:35 AM
i can remember two of those curry houses SS is talking about  but they are from liverpool

one was the Kismet and the other was the kohi Noor

The Kohinoor was on Commutation Row and as the song says "ah yes I remember it well..."

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/food/chef/2008/04/08/family-recipe-for-success-at-the-gulshan-64375-20732999/ (http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/food/chef/2008/04/08/family-recipe-for-success-at-the-gulshan-64375-20732999/)

CoR
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: JerryM on April 10, 2009, 12:08 PM
CurryOnRegardless,

very much appreciate the link - a real good read. i remember the gulshan on aigburth road but frequented Lark Lane at the time.

the text in the link on the base is good background, "The base is mainly the onions, with fresh tomatoes, garlic and ginger added. You add water and simmer with bay leaf, cinnamon, cardamom, clove. Before you even add the garam spices, you can smell the flavour of it. Once all that?s done, you add tomato puree and all the other spices. How much of the other spices you add makes the flavour."
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: adriandavidb on April 10, 2009, 10:40 PM
I've only been to a couple of the sort of places that I think SS may be refering to.  Both were in the early 80s, and both were in Leeds.  They were both 'spit and sawdust' type places where the was hardly any difference betweena Korma and a madras, apart form chilie of course.  They were very cheap, the chicken was stringy, but the amazing hot savoury flavours haunt me still!

I am CERTAIN that it is not a nostalgic hankering for my student days that is deluding me here!

These places would not have known what a CTM was!  'Classy' they wrere not!

The one I remember best was the 'Islamabad' opposite the Parkenson building of Leeds Uni.  There were two others within 100 metres: Chakwells & Naffies, both popular (the food was less greasy!), but not in my opinion, anywhere near as good!

The closed I can put the flavour waould be Balti, from Birminghams Sparkbrook/Sparkhill area; or The Lahore Kaebab house in London's East End. but none of these are as good, in my opinion.

I still dream about Chicken Madras & a paratha from the Islamabad, ri=un by a little chap in late middle age, whoose wife seemed to do the cooking!
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Derek Dansak on April 20, 2009, 05:38 PM
any home cook who can fully reproduce a high quality bir madras with all the final 5 percent taste, must be a fecking super hero! will anyone ever do it? how many extra techniques would they need to master, to do it at home. is it actually impossible at home? some bir chefs say it is. christ knows why though. odd hey
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Domi on April 21, 2009, 01:17 AM
I know exactly the flavour SS talks about and I'm sad to say unless you have actually eaten the old style curries, you'll never know that taste (sadly) simply because curries have changed drastically over the years, back then you had a choice of keema, chicken or lamb curries with the choice of mild, medium or hot (korma, madras and vindaloo didn't appear on the menus...or at least they didn't in Huddersfield!..until a few years later - early to mid 80's) they did tandoori chicken portions and the only choice of rice was plain boiled or pilau and you could either have chapattis or a plain naan...nothing like the choices we have now lol which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's sad to lose that unique flavour....I've never been able to replicate that flavour, but I can make as good (in alot of cases better) curries in me own kitchen than alot of the local places, with no doses of the tandoori trots to boot! Oh, and some of those old curries were cooked on a bog standard, white, gas 4-ring cooker...They were grotty holes alot of them, but the curries were divine!
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: Cory Ander on April 24, 2009, 04:48 AM
I guess the trend has been, and is likely to continue to be, towards "healthier eating". So I suppose this means BIRs using less oil and "healthier" oils, etc, etc.

I believe Kris Dhillon prescribes using olive oil in her new book.

And I suppose that the taste of BIR curries is almost bound to change, over the years, accordingly (much like with any other food outlet), for better or for worse.
Title: Re: Who else thinks they could reproduce any of their average local BIRs curry?
Post by: commis on April 24, 2009, 01:49 PM
Hi

Domi, I think you make an excelent observation in the use of domestic gas cookers in the old style curry houses. But that is another debate.

Commis