Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: HeyThere on March 02, 2009, 06:16 PM
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Hi,
I discovered this site two days ago when I was looking for something and since then I've spent a lot of time reading threads from all over the forum. I like cooking, and can cook a pretty good curry. I prefer dry korahi style dishes. btw I'm half Indian and my Mum's family heritage is Gujerati, she taught me to cook and all of her family cook Indian food all the time.
I'm amazed by your (as a group) obsession with the perfect bir curry, at times it appears that you're literally sending yourselves mad searching for the missing "1%", arguing over how much is in a ladle, modifying an LPG gas ring to double the flow etc. all chasing after this illusive philosophers stone.
You're mostly well past the stage of enjoying the nicest and most lovely food you can with friends and family and ended up with a destructive obsession.
Apart from one or two (curryqueen basically is the only one that comes to mind) you're basically totally missing the point anyway. First of all: yes of course you can make a curry at home which is the same as one from the bangladeshi 'indian takeaway' on the high road! Okay you need to: use fresh green chillis. This has come up on the forum in 2006 and still it sounds like some of you are not using them. That classic takeaway taste is just a combination of that turmericky garam masalaey sauce and fresh green chillis fried in veg oil (sometimes without seeds, sometimes with). Unless you're using lots of green chilli you're literally chasing your own backside tweaking minor things here and there like the number of mls in a ladle or the amount of heat you can provide to the pan etc. because it won't give you that taste. Wise up, curryqueen has been modestly mentioning this on this site for 2+ years and still some of the hard of thinking haven't caught on.
The real point though is that the standard madras, vindaloo, biriyani and tandoori chicken standard british indian is very good to soak up a bit of booze and satisfy your hunger but the dishes you are mentioning are just not that delicious!
The majority of uk restaurants will be run by sylhetis, and even if the chef has been in the uk 20 years (most likely he will have been here a lot less than that) the type of dish he is most adept at and can really excel at his craft is not going to be a chicken tikka balti bhuna!
If its a bangladeshi owner and chef, then the sefood will be shit hot, why not ask for a bengali potato and fish curry, its what they'll be cooking for themeselves and they will def be happy to dish this up for you.. Will be less oily, bigger pieces of veg and yeah a different type of food really but 30 times as delicious and probably cooked with twice as much love.
If you really want to experience something that lives up to that title curry then head to a lahori karahi house - giftos in southall, london.. tasty's in roundhay, leeds for example.. In Giftos you can watch him cook it, and ask him about the spices he's putting in - because its open plan - then you can start making some really amazing stuff at home.. Start by imitating these guys and then develop your own style! This is what I just don't get about the site. The joy of cooking is being able to create.. If you're not inventing and making and then perfecting your own dishes and your own personal style, your own signature then you're not really cooking, you're just chopping, mixing, boiling, frying.
Go to the indian shop get half a kilo of small green chillis (if you want to know exactly which ones ask in your local restaurant when you have a meal for 'a few fresh chillis' - I always do this, and they always bring a plate with about 5 of the things). Don't try using the slightly bigger ones in a 59p bag from tesco - got to get the real thing. Then go to the off license and get 6 beers or your preference of booze, go home and learn how to chill out and enjoy cooking, eating, and living: -ve bir obsession free!!
Of course these things are all about personal preference and yeah I could be chatting shit to deceive you or wind you up or whatever else you paranoid lot want to think so before you flame me I'm just airing my views, others may disagree.. your mileage may vary
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Could you repeat that, please...lol
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I think that you are correct in saying that there is too much of an obsession with the base sauce....but I think that the search for the elusive holy grail is an enjoyable one for most on here......so maybe no real harm done.
I went and did a Thai Cookery course a few weeks ago....just 3 dishes. It's the first I have ever been on. I watched the lady cook and taste and modify.....and I realised then that it's more of an art than a science.
I hope you continue to contribute gazza91
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That burning isn't last nights curry.....it's a rocket up my a**e ;D
btw chopped green chillis fried at the same time as the garlic/ginger paste does it for me ;D
Cheers...made me smile
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;D I feel pretty sad... On with the quest, point about chilies noted.
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Hi Hey There,
I think most people are aware that authentic Asian cooking is very different from BIR cooking, I also enjoy cooking more authentic food but my main interest is replicating the taste and flavour of BIR at home,
I don't think that means I'm paranoid or clueless, it means I know the taste I like,
Thanks for your input anyway,
Bob
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I'm sure you made many valid points, but "the dishes you are mentioning are just not that delicious!" isn't one of them.
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You're right FT that was a bit unfair. Should have said 'just not the most delicious you can get/make'
And at the end of the day I've spent the last two days diving into the collective obsession with you guys! And I've really enjoyed it.. and picked up a couple of tips/ideas...
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I have made, many authentic home Indian dishes and delicious they were. I was fortunate to date an Indian girl for some time and learnt allot about home Indian cooking. This forum is about creating the British Indian Restaurant taste and aroma, that the majority on this forum experienced during the 70's and 80's. That said, we may all be mad, but that's what makes this an interesting hobby/obsession. At the end of the day, The high street take away and Restaurant serve dishes such as Phall , Onion Bhaji's specifically for British tastes. My obsession is trying to recreate this taste and smell,
Knowing this, it's was probably our first real taste of Indian food, that got us hooked, and that was after a skinfull on a Friday night. ;D
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Welcome to cr0 HT,
Maybe you would be more interested in our Traditional Indian Recipes Section here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?board=8.0
....or maybe another forum focused on traditional, rather than BIR, curry cooking?
I'm amazed by your (as a group) obsession with the perfect bir curry
Yep, that's quite correct HT, many (if not most) of us here ARE obsessed with replicating a perfect BIR curry at home....and are quite happy with that as a positive obsession thanks...it's what this forum is primarily about..sorry if that doesn't suit your needs :)
You're basically totally missing the point anyway
Or maybe you are HT? ;)
of course you can make a curry at home which is the same as one from the bangladeshi 'indian takeaway'....you need to: use fresh green chillis.....that classic takeaway taste is just a combination of that turmericky garam masalaey sauce and fresh green chillis fried in veg oil
Eureka!! The secret is finally divulged! Bugger! I never knew it was so simple! ;D
Thank you for sharing your views with us HT; you make some interesting points and your views are much appreciated 8)
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bengali potato and fish curry
Err. No thanks.
Chicken Madras BIR-style will do for me.
What's missing is not green chillies. Its been tried and works well in some dishes like Jalfrezi.
The missing piece in MY opinion is in the oil, and some others who have spent more time than you have in re-creating BIR would concur.
Ciao Baby.
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That classic takeaway taste is just a combination of that turmericky garam masalaey sauce and fresh green chillis fried in veg oil (sometimes without seeds, sometimes with). Unless you're using lots of green chilli you're literally chasing your own backside tweaking minor things here
Hi HeyThere
I have managed to work a couple of days in a BIR takeaway, so I've seen a lot more than most.
I've had oodles of demos too, at different places
Thanks for your input but I you are mistaken
Firstly, chillies do not go into every BIR curry, and secondly it's the reclaimed curry gravy oil giving the majority of flavour.
You could cook simple boiled lentils in this oil and get a BIR standard curry taste.
I've been given this oil, and cooked perfectly at home
I have eaten many times with BIR staff and yes, these curries are fantastic.
Better than any standard BIR meals
But what is making them extra special, is this oil they are cooked in!!
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What I'm saying though, is that its the way that green chilli taste changes after a lot of cooking in oil that gives that unique flavour - imparting it to the oil.
The reclaimed oil is one way of doing it, or you could try making it - theres even a couple of threads on here where people are suggesting making spiced oil.. but not mentioning fresh green chilli! What all of these recipes need is fresh green chilli.
If you don't want the final dish to be hot, then carefully score the chillis and tip the seeds out. Beleive me I've done this before and the final result, as well as several other characteristics, has had that distinctive taste you get from a take away.
If you want to fit my suggestion into your own 'scientific' method then try this: put 250ml SF oil in a pan, heat it up (but nowhere near smoking temp) then throw in about 25 stemmed, deseeded small green chillis that you bought by weight in the local indian shop. cook it so the chillis are rising and slightly bubbling for 35 - 40 mins, then either take the chillis out with a spoon with holes or strain.. Cool this oil and use it as the cooking oil next time you make your best 'nearest to the real thing' recipe - if you want to remain objective make one at the same time with normal oil.
I think you'll be surprised by the result.
By the way one more thing - I noticed theres a thread on veg ghee, some of you are experimenting. Have a quick search for veg ghee trans fats.. this stuff is generally though to be pretty nasty (and it falls under the new york trans fat ban so curry cooking is def still fine without).
I actually think the main advantage for the restaurant is that veg ghee saves them money because it doesn't have to be refrigerated - marginal effect on flavour and butter ghee or SF oil will do the same job in every case.
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HeyThere
Thanks for the tip on the green chilli's, I for one will be objective and give it a go and compare the two side by side.
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If you want to fit my suggestion into your own 'scientific' method then try this: put 250ml SF oil in a pan, heat it up (but nowhere near smoking temp) then throw in about 25 stemmed, deseeded small green chillis that you bought by weight in the local indian shop. cook it so the chillis are rising and slightly bubbling for 35 - 40 mins, then either take the chillis out with a spoon with holes or strain.. Cool this oil and use it as the cooking oil next time you make your best 'nearest to the real thing' recipe - if you want to remain objective make one at the same time with normal oil.
I think you'll be surprised by the result.
Thank you
I'll try that, that's something I've not done before
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Hi HeyThere
Thanks for your comments and valued input to this forum.
I have modified your title to something more constructive and a little less confrontational - I do hope you don't mind.
SnS ;)
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Well F*** *e. I've been at this game for well over twenty years now and you know what, I'd never given green chillis a thought! Well, no need for this forum any longer!
(And before anyone says it, yes that was the politest response I could come up with! ::) )
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20 years secret santa...bloody hell.
20 years of telling everyone else how their ideas are s***e.
If you know everything why don't you enlighten us all.
If not shut the F**K up and stop shooting eeryone down in flames.
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If not shut the F**K up and stop shooting eeryone down in flames.
Sorry curry crazy...I'd love to respond...but got green chillis to prepare...at last, I have the answer to the BIR taste and aroma.
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;D
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SS please keep up the sarcasm. Without your acidic wit this site would be too tame! :o
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Interesting post but I don't think the answer lies with fresh chilli's, like others I have had demo's\seen chef's make my curry and green chilli's have never come up. I do agree with you on the obsession side of things though, I gave up worrying whether my curry's were 100% correct a while ago, now I just enjoy making and eating them. I know they are good and better than a lot of restaurants locally to me and that's all that matters 8)
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HeyThere,
real good post.
took me back to a night in a restaurant (Light of Asia, Dudley) when we asked how the dishes were made so hot. the chef had a real good laugh - a little side plate appeared with a little green chilli each to savour with the meal.
the suggestion i think is to use the chillies at cooking stage (which i do in admins jalfrezi and it works a treat).
i'd be interested though in your thoughts on adding them to base. i know this has been discussed previously but it's still something that niggles me (i add fork punctured fat chillies when making mexican tomato salsa and it works well).
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To quickly clarify: When I make a curry I leave the seeds in, and chop some of the chillis finely (into little rings, about 6 or so) and some coarsely (cut once accross and once lengthways) and I've noticed that its when these are fried for a while in the oil that they create a lovely savoury taste that when it combines with the spices is that particular bir taste everyone is on about.
I know that its the skins of the chillies and not the seeds that give this flavour, and its the frying in oil that releases it.
As everyone knows its the seeds that have the vast majority of the capsicin in them so the skins aren't actually that 'hot'. I think curry houses might not necessarily put in whole chillis with seeds, especially as most of their dishes aren't burning hot but they probably put in oil that has had chilli flesh/skin boiling in it.
If you eat one of the big pieces of chilli skin in one of my final curries it has its own taste but not this one we're on about - thats why I'm sure it passes this on to the oil. Its in the smell as well when they fry, and it changes as they bubble away.
I think reclaiming the oil basically just increases the time that there has been chillis sizzling in it, the more (new) chillies, the better and so the older the oil the better, though I'm sure my idea of a 35 min frying time with one lot of fresh chillies will do the same job... hope someone gives it a go and reports back....
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As everyone knows its the seeds that have the vast majority of the capsicin in them so the skins aren't actually that 'hot'.
A point here for those that want the green chile taste but don't want the hotness.
It is the placenta that contains most capsaicinoids (the chemical that causes the burning sensation). Whilst the seeds are hot, the hottest part of a chile is the white bits that the seeds are attached to. If you don't want hotness then you should remove the seeds but more importantly - also the white placenta.
SnS ;)
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To quickly clarify: When I make a curry I leave the seeds in, and chop some of the chillis finely (into little rings, about 6 or so) and some coarsely (cut once accross and once lengthways) and I've noticed that its when these are fried for a while in the oil that they create a lovely savoury taste that when it combines with the spices is that particular bir taste everyone is on about.
this reminded me of the Ashoka Green Chilli paste which i've not tried and now feel i should give it a go.
presumably adding it with the garlic/ginger paste.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg28438#msg28438 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3189.msg28438#msg28438)
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Capsaicin is the other term used when referring to the white pith that the seed hangs/grows from inside the chilli pepper.
With regard to the chilli oil I will try this but am convinced that the way that I do it has the same effect I am sure. I usually start a curry with spiced oil and fresh chillies chopped finely and whole ones too (I like my dishes to be HOT!) so this would give the same effect overall, and then of course I reclaim and re-use it next time and so on and it does get better with time. CQ
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its when these are fried for a while in the oil that they create a lovely savoury taste that when it combines with the spices is that particular bir taste everyone is on about.
No it's not. It may be the 'taste' that you require, but it isn't even close to the savoury flavour I am trying to reproduce. I think you'd be better off sticking to your 'authentic' fish curries, you might actually know what you're talking about there.
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No it's not. It may be the 'taste' that you require, but it isn't even close to the savoury flavour I am trying to reproduce.
I'm glad someone tried it
Sorry you're disappointed
Is the oil hot?
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Hi CQ, whats an easy way to start reclaiming oil, it sounds like the way ahead. do you just put a lot more oil in the final curry, and skim off some at the end. i am not keen on adding lots of oil to my base, as i like to keep it semi healthy. so am looking for an alternative, quick simple method to reclaim oil. cheer DD
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Hi Derek
If you want to produce extra oil for reclaim then add extra oil into the base recipe.
The more you put in, the more will (should) separate at the end of the cooking time.
If you cannot get the oil to separate, just add more water to thin the base down.
This should not affect the amount of oil 'retained' in the actual base, so I wouldn't worry too much about the health side.
Regards
SnS ;)
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I'm glad someone tried it
Sorry you're disappointed
Is the oil hot?
Hi haldi
Well I'm not disappointed as such. I've been cooking chillis with my curries in various ways for years so I knew that adding chillis at any stage of the cooking wasn't going to add anything in terms of getting the BIR taste. Not too sure what you mean by 'is the oil hot?'. Tonight for instance I made a jalfrezi and I added three finely chopped green chillis at the same time that I fried the garlic/ginger paste, which I always do first.
On an unrelated note, but relevant to your recent oil research, tonight I used some oil that was nearly near its throw away point. I had cooked chicken strips and samosas in it and most recently a fairly big serving of chicken wings. The curry was really quite good and it had a superb extra chickeny flavour in the sauce, something I used to notice in BIR curries of old but don't now. I think this demonstrates just how much extra flavour can be carried through to the curry from ingredients previously cooked in the frying oil.
I noticed many many years ago that the oil I had cooked onion bhajis in definitely had a BIR curry like aroma to it but it never occured to me to cook with it. I think the trick is to avoid adding this spiced oil to your base sauce and just use it straight in to the final curry preparation.
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thought i would add a pic of these wonderful little gems.
i'm with Secret Santa on the BIR taste and the green chilli.
however this post has prompted me that i'm not using them enough as i do like the extra taste they bring (have only used in admins jalfrezi).
i'm going to make the Ashoka green chilli paste and try it out this week. have a feeling though that my wife's not going to be too suited to the new refound ingredient.
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I's be very interested to hear the results of the green-chilie paste trial!
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i've made the ashoka green paste and will post details in the ashoka thread.
i started out taking the seeds and placenta out. i stopped after 5 chillies - i just could not see a BIR doing the same. i intend to just use a smaller amount to compensate for the extra hotness in the paste.
i couldn't resist eating one - i now know what, "lingering piquant" in menu speak means.
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i'd be interested though in your thoughts on adding them to base. i know this has been discussed previously but it's still something that niggles me
I swear, I've added green finger chillies and green bullet chillies by the shovel load into my bases sauces and never been able to taste fresh green chilli in the resulting curry. The way I get the best fresh green chilli flavour is to add them finely chopped near the end of the curry stage. One question that has always niggled me, is would the taste be stronger if I blended the chillies in cold water - it works for me for garlic / ginger.
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Bobby,
following HeyThere's clarification i've dropped the idea of using them in the base for good. there was no hint of them in the real BIR base i tried. i was just trying to make sure no one else had had success using them in base.
i'm trying them as a paste at garlic/ginger frying stage and will report back.
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HeyThere,
i cooked last night and used the Ashoka Green Chilli paste. i felt it worked a treat and have adopted it as std for madras going fwd.
it sort of enhanced the flavour rather than radically changed it. i used 1 tsp and added it to the oil before the garlic/ginger paste.
it did make the madras that i make almost restaurant "Madras" hot though and it pushed my wife's goodwill a tad so i may try 1/2 tsp going fwd or spend more time taking out the seeds. the chillies did not blend that well in the blender leaving some small chunks which was fine for me but not for everyone's taste.
many thanks for the prompt - much appreciated