Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on November 19, 2008, 06:12 PM
-
a few recent post's have rattle me a bit - not personally but in terms of the members at large. the post's suggest we are all a million miles away from each other in what we do.
given we are all aiming for BIR and this is fairly consistent across (i do lie a little here but it help makes the case) the country then we should all be doing the same sort of things and getting the same results.
examples being using fresh oil to fry, and me not using methi when others swear by it (again i do lie a little as i mainly cook madras and methi for me has no part to play).
what really got me thinking is that secret santa feels he is only 80% there.
i think Bobby got the idea a while ago wanting to ask all the experienced members to put down their key requirements to success ie what they do from start to finish in making near perfect BIR.
it is hoped that this post may tease out these key requirements. i'll start with a few examples to kick off the little grey cells:
Frying technique:
1. Large spread of flame that covers the whole pan
2. Aluminium pan (or any pan that has very good heat conductivity)
3. Never letting the sauce burn or catch on the sides of the pan (hence the circular motion with the chef's spoon around the sides of the pan)
4. Reduction of the curry to a finished consistency by 3, 4 or 5 minutes of high heat.
i guess in short i'm asking for what members feel they are particularly good at and feels makes a big difference to their result.
-
what really got me thinking is that secret santa feels he is only 80% there.
The only reason for that Jerry is that I'm trying to recreate the curries I remember from before the early nineties and which have now, as far as I can tell, disappeared. The curries I now get in BIRs are uniformly third rate in comparison.
I know some people on here feel they are at about 95% BIR or better but they are trying to copy these more modern style curries. I got really frustrated at people's comments about how close they were getting to BIR style with the curries on this forum until I realised this fact. Up until that realisation I was examining every aspect of my curry making to determine what I was doing wrong when everyone else was apparently getting it right!
I really have no hope now of ever reproducing the taste I want, not least of all because I can no longer find any to remind me exactly what they used to be like. The one thing I do know however, is that I will instantly recognise the missing depth of flavour, savouriness and overpoweringly lovely aroma that accompanied them, if I ever do manage to find one.
-
How the hell can you remember the taste of curries eaten in the early 90s some 18years ago, I also enjoyed curries then but I struggle to recall the taste must be my age ;)
-
How the hell can you remember the taste of curries eaten in the early 90s some 18years ago, I also enjoyed curries then but I struggle to recall the taste must be my age ;)
Every psychologist knows that olfactory senses are by far the most reminiscent. I learned that in Psychology 101! I can't explain why you don't remember however. Had a hard hit on the head by a giant cardamom pod perhaps ;D
-
I had a really good bacon sandwich, sometime in the early spring, 1986. White bread, a little crispy.
Haven't had had as good since.
-
Secret Santa's post clarifies his position and i don't feel there is much help collectively we can offer. i do know what he means having started on curry in 78. i'm lucky in that the restarants i frequented are still there (and very good) and an occasional one with the same management. here u can step back in time - well almost the wallpapers gone. the trick these days is in being able to find them as even when the same management exists the curries may have changed (there's a real good example where i live - real flashy place now, high prices, very poor food)
as for the rest of us it may be worth continuing.
i'll add my top 4 to add to the 4 above from Secret Santa.
1) adopt a stage 1 & stage 2 cooking for the base with the blending in between the stages. the crucial bit is stage 2 when water is added and the base fast simmered for a further 1 hr at least adding water as needed to maintain the original volume.
2) adopt the emulsification frying technique -make sure there is free water at the frying stage (don't cook the spices in oil alone as it's prone to burning)
3) add whole spices to the base in a cloth bag and remove before blending
4) use reclaimed oil for frying ie take some off before blending
i can probably find the existing relevant posts if needed.
the idea of the post is that if (and we have to assume so) we have all the jigsaw pieces on the site some members are bound to have a better handle on the pieces they've perfected. by sharing this perfection we can all collectively step up the ladder.
-
I had a really good bacon sandwich, sometime in the early spring, 1986. White bread, a little crispy.
Haven't had had as good since.
LOL
-
How the hell can you remember the taste of curries eaten in the early 90s some 18years ago, I also enjoyed curries then but I struggle to recall the taste must be my age ;)
Every psychologist knows that olfactory senses are by far the most reminiscent. I learned that in Psychology 101! I can't explain why you don't remember however. Had a hard hit on the head by a giant cardamom pod perhaps ;D
Quite possible about the cardamon although I can't remember, look on the bright side at least I can enjoy my curries without worrying that they do not match up to something I ate 18yrs ago. ;D
-
i totally agree secret santa. if i ever stumbled across that missing flavor, i would recognise it instantly. the acid test for me is this: taste the curry the next day cold. a real bir curry tastes amazing the next day cold. mine taste very very nice, but not quite the same. some of my curries have that essence of taste in the oily bits the next day. i am trying to work out how to increase this element. i must be getting very near. but still a little work to do yet. when i find how to get that taste i will shout eureka! sorry if this is off topic!
-
I think we could all learn something from the traditional cooking methods.
I am experimenting with traditional indian cooking at the moment and last night cooked a dish that contained no other spice but chilli powder and turmeric.
Yet when i had finished cooking the dish it was almost as good as any BIR curry that i am turning out with a base sauce...strange eh?
There is definatly something in adding water then reducing back to the consistancy you want, during this reduction process the magic happens.
Stew
-
Stew,
There is definatly something in adding water then reducing back to the consistency you want, during this reduction process the magic happens.
just to be sure you mean at the simmer stage after adding the base. i too find this crucial even though it makes a big mess of my kitchen (well the newspaper anyhow thanks to gary's tip)
a dish that contained no other spice but chilli powder and turmeric.
eagerly await the results. for me this too is part of the magic ie very few spices.
-
thats interesting. the bir chef i know, showed me quite a lot of that adding water and reducing down technique. he used it with great effect with lots of dd spice mix and chilly powder + chicken bones and chicken, green chillies, cardomaon, cloves, bay leaf, covered in water and boiled right down. produced a really tasty quick easy curry. he called it "staff curry". apparently its part of learning to do a vindaloo.
-
The one thing I do know however, is that I will instantly recognise the missing depth of flavour, savouriness and overpoweringly lovely aroma that accompanied them, if I ever do manage to find one.
I agree with your comments about the 80% versus the 95% attainment of a DECENT BIR curry SS (regardless of how "enjoyable" it might otherwise be).
I can certainly recollect the taste and smell of curries that I thoroughly enjoyed, and hanker for, from the early 80's (25 years in fact!).
But I do disagree that those same curries can't be had anymore though. They can, I've had them.
-
the acid test for me is this: taste the curry the next day cold. a real bir curry tastes amazing the next day cold. mine taste very very nice, but not quite the same.
This is absolutely right DD, I couldn't agree more. The old style curries I am trying to reproduce not only have the missing taste and aroma but they retained them easily until the next day when cold. Good observation!
-
But I do disagree that those same curries can't be had anymore though. They can, I've had them.
Ohhhh, you are a tease CA! :P
So are they in Cambridge like the ones you recommended before? If so it's about time I made the effort to get there. Let me know please.
-
Secret Santa,
CA is teasing for sure everyone knows the best curries are in the midlands and i think Cambridge is near watford and a bit too far south. ;D
-
Guys, I have bean eating BIR curry for over 30 years now and have eaten them all over the UK, Ireland and abroad though nothing in France comes near. Glasgow takes a lot of beating particularly the portion sizes. There is something different today so I agree with Secret Santa but occasionally I still find the old magical taste and aroma.As I have posted elsewhere today I have a visit to the kitchens of a Glasgow BIR coming up on Sunday. I will explore this idea of changing taste over the years. I hope Secret Santa it has nothing to do with ageing taste buds and nostrils.
-
Just had a thought, this post is a good idea JerryM and having been away for a wee while I have been aware that a couple of great stalwarts of the site when I first got involved and was learning about bases and other good stuff have been noticeably missing. I feel that their opinion matched by your own and the others who regularly post now which includes guys from back then too and new names to myself would be of value. Perhaps Curry King or Stew could consider teasing them with an email to have their input. Then again given that I have been away they could have gone to the dark side with their experience or sadly they may just have moved on.
I am thinking of guys like Darth and CurryQueen who inspired me along with CA and CurryKing and a hole load of others back then. If I took time out and was a away for a while then I suppose they can too but it would be good to have some of you guys bouncing ideas around, just a thought.
-
I hope Secret Santa it has nothing to do with ageing taste buds and nostrils.
No, that had crossed my mind too, but I still make recipes that I used to make as a teen and they still smell and taste the same. Unless of course it's a loss that's particular to BIR curries. ??? :-\
EDIT: I realised after posting this that I have actually had a bombay aloo a few months ago that had the old taste I am looking for (actually I would say it was about 98% there). Strangely it did not have the nice aroma though. This was at a buffet and none of the other curries had the taste!
-
spot on panpot.
Stew could consider teasing them with an email to have their input
i'd add the following to the list: George, Haldi, Secret Santa, SnS
maybe it could be tied into some financial benefit to the site as a whole as this would be clearly very valuable information and a short cut to improved success.
-
Thanks JerryM for your support for this idea. I didn't want to name any of the present stalwarts in case I missed someone out like Bobby Bhuna who has been really cool along with Unclebuck and too many to mention. If I have missed you out or indeed JeeryM has then please forgive us since I would also include Haldi SnS and George, Secret Santa and soo many others from recent posts especially the absolute beginners who ask some of the best questions. Look this site is wonderful and everyone is really valued by me and I am sure everyone else in the community and if The big guys of a few years ago got back in it would just add something more, so if Curry Queen is looking in or Darth or any of the countless back then too do us all a favour and make a comment especially on the topic of this thread.
-
i've followed this post up with a word doc located here http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3207.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3207.0)