Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: dellydel on November 05, 2008, 02:04 PM
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Hi guys,
Been reading this forum a fair bit the last few days as im looking to put the 'KD Curry Secret' book back up on the shelf and try a few recipes off here!
However, there are so many bases on here with so many mixed opinions I dont know which one to start with. And then the same with the main dishes!
After much deliberation I think its either going to be;
Base - Admin new base / Bruce Edwards / Darths
Dish - Curry King Bhuna (with chicken instead) / Stew's Madras / Rajver madras
Please help me in deciding what to try first, all suggestions welcome ;)!
I do worry however that I am getting my hope up to much about how great and authentic it will taste. I mean, I havent found a post yet that says "thats it, I have done it, it taste just like my local!" Can I expect the fished result to taste anywhere near the real thing?
Finally, does anyone on this forum actually work in a BIR? I know people have been in the kitchens and even learnt the recipes so thats the next best thing, but how come no one has got it %100 correct? I read about the currys on here being %95 best! Surely if you have been there and seen it, then followed the same recipe with the same ingredients, it cant be any different.... ::) ;D???
Forgive me for all my questions :-[
I look forward to your answers,
Kind regards
Del
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...I know people have been in the kitchens and even learnt the recipes so thats the next best thing, but how come no one has got it %100 correct? I read about the currys on here being %95 best! Surely if you have been there and seen it, then followed the same recipe with the same ingredients, it cant be any different.... ::) ;D???
Well dellydel that's a very pertinent question and the thing that comes to my mind is that no one (not even haldi I think?) has seen the curry base made from start to finish. Now, to me, that's very important and it has become more so since watching the Malik videos. There are just so many things going into their base that I can't help feel there is a, dare I say it, secret ingredient! Well, actually, no, not a secret ingredient, but a combination of unknown ingredients that we just don't see in any of the bases posted on this site.
So for me the secret ingredient myth actually isn't a myth it's just that it's secret INGREDIENTS not ingredient, and they are secret not because they aren't showing us but just because no one has ever been able to see the base made from start to end.
I've seen the so called techniques for making the final curry so many times now that I am convinced it is not there that the magic happens, although those techniques are required as well! No, for me, the base is the key to this and unless someone gets to see the whole operation, nothing missed out, then we are never going to close that last 5%.
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Arr I see!
Well if no one has actually stood in a kitchen from start to finish and then tasted the final dish, then I see your point!
Thanks for your reply bud.
Cheers
Del
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this is the answer we are all very much interested in.
i thought it was the base but it's not. the malik does put a certain amount of doubt back but not enough (they use loads of ingredients). i've made a load of different base from the site and one post got talking about real BIR base. i realised that all my deliberation were in making the final curry the same as BIR and unfortunately there are mainly variable if u trace back right the way to starting the base. i u knew what the base tastes like then this would cutthe variables significantly. in short i asked at my local TA who i know and frequent.
real BIR base (or at least from my TA who produce 10/10 curry) is very similar to the site bases with few ingredients, minimal spicing, very thin but yet full of onion and carrot to a lesser extent. there was one taste i'm trying to get which i thought was fennel and i'm still playing around with the spices to get the intensity of oil. but at the end of the day the last 5% lies elswhere for me.
it's either mater of fact (something BIR's do) but we just don't think about doing the same at home or it's completeness of recipe. the latter certainly holds true for several recipes on the site when there is no gap for me - they're 100% BIR.
this is a good post to read http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=200.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=200.0)
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Thanks for your reply Jerry, I will read through that post when I get a bit of spare time, im sure there will be a lot of interesting points there, thanks!
So to answer my other question regarding which base & which dish to try first, any have any suggestions?
There are so many which sound so good......
Base - Admin new base / Bruce Edwards / Darths / SNS saffron new base
(leaning towards SNS Saffron)
Dish - Curry King Bhuna (with chicken instead) / Stew's Madras / Rajver madras /
CA's Chicken Phal, Vindaloo, Madras and Curry / Bruce Edward's Madras Recipe (from Lorrydo)
(Probably try the Bruce Edwards one)
Which of combination of these is likely to work best and get closest to BIR quality?
Cheers guys, really appreciate your advice and comments!
Del
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So for me the secret ingredient myth actually isn't a myth it's just that it's secret INGREDIENTS not ingredient, and they are secret not because they aren't showing us but just because no one has ever been able to see the base made from start to end.
Hi dellydel
Welcome to the forum.
At the Saffron, I have watched the chefs make the base from start to end and there is no 'secret' ingredient or ingredients ... unless of course they hid it from me or added it when I blinked - which I doubt. I was in their kitchen for 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon.
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Hi SNS,
Thanks for the welcome!
What dish would you recommend trying first to accompany your 'Saffron' Base then buddy?
Really cant wait to try it out 8) ;D
Cheers
Del
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At the Saffron, I have watched the chefs make the base from start to end and there is no 'secret' ingredient or ingredients ... unless of course they hid it from me or added it when I blinked - which I doubt. I was in their kitchen for 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon.
Hi SnS
did you post th full size base?
I'd be interested in that one.
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the saffron base is in my top 3 - it takes some beating.
i do think Bruce's is a good starting point - for me it's a sort of yardstick
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the latter certainly holds true for several recipes on the site when there is no gap for me - they're 100% BIR.
Hi jerry. It still depresses me thoroughly when I see statements like this. I don't doubt your sincerity but, despite trying many of the bases and many of the recipes ( but not all by any means), I still find that they land woefully short of what I'm after, lacking in all cases that special taste and aroma. I would agree that they are a match for many of the current BIR curries, but they themselves are so poor compared to what I was used to get years ago that it offers little comfort for me.
To sum up: be happy that you have achieved 100% match, but, be sad that you don't, as it were, know what you're missing.
Out of interest is one of your 100% matches a madras? If so can you post the base and curry recipe and any special techniques and I'll give it a go as I need a new batch of base. I can but hope!
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Secret Santa,
no need to be depressed at all. everthing u say still holds true for me i'm afraid to say (up beat of course - there's always tomorrow and hope - 2 vital ingredients).
i'll have to explain. the 100% BIR's for me are CK's CTM and Admins Jalfrezi. i've made them with quite a few different bases and get repeated 100% BIR results. why do these hit the mark. i feel i don't have to explain the CTM (the coconut the cream etc). the jalfrezi seems to sit well together - the kushi spice mix, the green chillis and the pre fried onion and green pepper.
this is where u and me sit very close together. why is the madras not there and on my next base (a mild vindaloo). i tried experimenting with Bhuna for clues (my fav sylhety is based on it but worlds apart) - no use.
this is where the 5% gap sits for me - madras. i can't get it like my local TA or my beloved Dilshad in the midlands (the 1972 curry house).
i remain beside myself in what oil to use - do i stick with red or change to yellow as the BIR's seemed to have done.
i feel at the mo it (the 5%) can only be down to exactness of recipe ie mix powder, salt, chilli etc and feel i need to experiment more along these lines.
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At the Saffron, I have watched the chefs make the base from start to end and there is no 'secret' ingredient or ingredients ... unless of course they hid it from me or added it when I blinked - which I doubt. I was in their kitchen for 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon.
Hmmmm. Ok, I stand corrected. However, your base seems simple compared to the Malik one, and that was sort of the point I was making. The Malik one seems to include everything but the kitchen sink. Doesn't neccessarily mean it's better of course.
Your 'revised' base is on my list, so I'll let you know!
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the 100% BIR's for me are CK's CTM and Admins Jalfrezi
Admin's Jalfrezi, I believe may be 100% BIR.
Agree with your assessment that the key "one" we are striving for and not getting 100% is the madras/vindaloo variety.
But I have to argue a little on CK's CTM. First off, I will say this - it is the best "recipe" CTM I have ever tried. I have probably tried every one on this site, and probably a dozen from elsewhere on the internet. I've had plenty of s***e CTMs from BIRs, but the best ones have been just that much better than any of mine, CK's included.
To me personally the gap on the CTM bothers me as much as the gap on the Madras. These are my two staples.
Does anyone reading this make any mods to the CK CTM, that you think gets it closer to BIR?
-- Josh
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Admin's Jalfrezi, I believe may be 100% BIR
What do you mean by that please Josh/Jerry? Is it REALLY up there with the best BIR CTMs (regarding taste and smell)? :-\
Does anyone reading this make any mods to the CK CTM, that you think gets it closer to BIR?
- I would use vegetable oil (or similar) and definitely not olive oil. Butter ghee would make it richer
- I would replace the creamed coconut with a tablespoon (or two) of coconut milk powder. Creamed coconut (as in block) is actually not sweet and leaves a very dry, powdery taste, I find
- I would maybe add about a tablespoon (or so) of almond meal (though some would beg to differ)
- I would maybe add a splash of lemon juice (though some would beg to differ)
- I would maybe add more sugar (personal taste)
Incidentally, I have read that, when some organisation (I forget which) tested a number of single portion CTMs from various BIRs, they found that they contained up to the equivalent of 20 tablespoons (I think it was tablespoons...seems a lot!?) of sugar in them (I guess this must be sugar in all its various forms?)! :P
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What do you mean by that please Josh/Jerry? Is it REALLY up there with the best BIR CTMs (regarding taste and smell)?
No that was the Jalfrezi, not the CTM. Its great. If I would have ordered this in a BIR I would have been very happy with it. Maybe its because the Jalfrezi has a wider range of flavours than a Madras, the missing piece may be masked to some extent.
Try it.
- I would use vegetable oil (or similar) and definitely not olive oil. Butter ghee would make it richer
- I would replace the creamed coconut with a tablespoon (or two) of coconut milk powder. Creamed coconut (as in block) is actually not sweet and leaves a very dry, powdery taste, I find
- I would maybe add about a tablespoon (or so) of almond meal (though some would beg to differ)
- I would maybe add a splash of lemon juice (though some would beg to differ)
- I would maybe add more sugar (personal taste)
Yes, I use veg oil only. Have tried ghee, which I actually like in a CTM.
I will try the suggestion on the coconut powder instead of block
Will try the almond meal suggestion, as well as the lemon.
Regarding sugar, I've sweetened it to the point of sickly, but that doesn't get it closer.
If I were to describe the difference from the best BIR CTMs I've had, the word that comes to mind is "zestier".
Thanks for the input CA.
-- Josh
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No that was the Jalfrezi, not the CTM. Its great
Sorry Josh, I meant to say Jalfrezi, not CTM :P
If I were to describe the difference from the best BIR CTMs I've had, the word that comes to mind is "zestier"
If you mean that you want your CTM "zestier" then adding lemon juice does precisely that. I find that it compliments tikka/tandoori/CTM well, adding a bit of "tartiness", which lifts the flavours.
You might want to try one of the commercial tikka/tandoori pastes (in place of the tandoori masala)? It's probably one of the few curries where the inherent tartiness of these commercial pastes (from the stabilisers, preservatives, etc) can actually can be beneficial....in my opinion.
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CA - I will try both of those suggestions. FIngers crossed!
Thanks!
-- Josh
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Josh,
i feel getting the CTM right is down to the tandoori masala it's got to be the Leena variety or equivalent (the pink variety). the only thing i do different (but which i believe common practise) is to put some of the tikka marinade (CA's for sure) in after the base goes in.
it's got to be carnation not cream and the coconut block is a must for me.
my personal preferences have resulted in a few tweaks (garlic/ginger is garlic only 2 tbsp, spice mix is 2 tsp, tandoori masala 3 tsp, 100gm coconut block). NB this is for x2 CK's recipe ie 6 ladles c/w 3 as this dish goes too quickly to make as a single portion. i often now make a x4 portion.
best wishes
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Hi SNS,
Thanks for the welcome!
What dish would you recommend trying first to accompany your 'Saffron' Base then buddy?
Really cant wait to try it out 8) ;D
Cheers
Del
Hi Del
As a start, the SnS base has a Madras recipe to go with it. I believe this to be an easy curry to start with and recommend you try this first.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2757.0
There are a few other curry recipes mentioned here in this thread that would be okay with the base - Admins Jalfrezi being a good choice.
Regards
SnS
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At the Saffron, I have watched the chefs make the base from start to end and there is no 'secret' ingredient or ingredients ... unless of course they hid it from me or added it when I blinked - which I doubt. I was in their kitchen for 3 hours on a Saturday afternoon.
Hi SnS
did you post th full size base?
I'd be interested in that one.
I'm sure you've already seen the recipe Haldi.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2271.msg20262#msg20262
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i feel getting the CTM right is down to the tandoori masala it's got to be the Leena variety or equivalent (the pink variety).
Jerry - I totally agree. I don't seem to be able to get the usual UK spice brands, and I've tried about 6 different tandoori masalas, and they can vary in taste significantly.
the only thing i do different (but which i believe common practise) is to put some of the tikka marinade (CA's for sure) in after the base goes in.
I will try this too. How much do you add?
it's got to be carnation not cream and the coconut block is a must for me.
I guess this is down to personal taste. I tend to prefer the cream over the carnation, I've tried both. I've even tried condensed milk in lieu of both cream and sugar. On the subject of cream, what do BIRs use? Is it carnation or UHT cream? Up until now, I've used coconut block exclusively for CTM, but will give CA's suggestion to try coconut powder instead. Makes sense that BIRs use that.
--- Josh
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...CTMs from various BIRs, they found that they contained up to the equivalent of 20 tablespoons (I think it was tablespoons...seems a lot!?) of sugar in them (I guess this must be sugar in all its various forms?)! :P
Watch the malik video, you will see that it's not far off! :o
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You might want to try one of the commercial tikka/tandoori pastes (in place of the tandoori masala)? It's probably one of the few curries where the inherent tartiness of these commercial pastes (from the stabilisers, preservatives, etc) can actually can be beneficial....in my opinion.
You're probably right there CA. The Pataks ones contain tamarind, I think, which is probably what josh is after.
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On the subject of cream, what do BIRs use? Is it carnation or UHT cream?
I know that George has seen them use UHT cream in a korma (lots of it), and I'm pretty sure haldi may have seen a similar use. The Maliks videos show them using a carton of UHT cream. I am a bit sensitive to the taste of Carnation cream and have definitely tatsed it in a korma I had many many years ago. So, on balance, it would seem that UHT cream is the most used, but some establishments may use Carnation or indeed other brands of 'cream'.
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hi guys have used both single elmlea cream and carnation evaporated milk to make kormas and peeps prefer the 1 with the evaporated milk. i have seen them use uht single cream from those cartons in a korma, but never seen these for sale anywhere maybe a wholesale thing.
regards
gary
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Josh,
once the coconut block is in and melted i taste the sauce (there is only the tikka to go in at this point) - sometimes i don't put any marinade in - other times upto 4 tbsp (12 ladle volume) adding one at a time until the taste is what i'm after.
i'm going to try coconut flour when my stocks of coconut block run out.
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Right guys,
I tried out the SNS Saffron base and thought I would report back!
I halved all the ingredients as I wasn't sure my 5L pot would accommodate the full recipe and it was my first go so it made sense to make less in case I messed it up!
Anyway, I gathered all the ingredients together;
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/07112008922Small.jpg)
Then chucked them in the pot;
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/07112008923Small.jpg)
This is how it looked just after the, tomato's and spices added after the blending stage;
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/07112008925Small.jpg)
This is how it was looking during the heavy simmering stage, notice all the froth building up on top;
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/07112008927Small.jpg)
Even after 30 mins though, I only got a bit of oil coming to the top, so I let it boil for another 10 mins and noticed no additional oil rise to the top :-\. Somehow the base ended up thicker than it should of, it certainly wasn't like a runny soup and maybe it was for this reason the oil had not separated like it should have. But here is what I ended up with;
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/07112008931Small.jpg)
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/07112008934Small.jpg)
Tasting it, it certainly tasted better than the KD base does when cooked! I left it in the fridge for a day and have now frozen it. I plan to cook up a Madras this Thursday night so I will report back once tested!
Hi SNS,
Thanks for the welcome!
What dish would you recommend trying first to accompany your 'Saffron' Base then buddy?
Really cant wait to try it out 8) ;D
Cheers
Del
Hi Del
As a start, the SnS base has a Madras recipe to go with it. I believe this to be an easy curry to start with and recommend you try this first.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2757.0
There are a few other curry recipes mentioned here in this thread that would be okay with the base - Admins Jalfrezi being a good choice.
Regards
SnS
Thanks for the suggestion SNS, I will probably try the Madras you mention first, however I have a couple of questions;
When you state 'garlic paste' and 'ginger paste' - are these made in a blender with water or are these in an 'off-the-shelf' tube form?
'tomato paste' - again, is this just tubed tomato puree?
'1 tsp chilli' - I have a pot of Rajah Chilli powder is this ok?
0.5 tsp kashmiri mirch - is this just another type of chilli powder, as shown here (http://www.spicesofindia.co.uk/acatalog/Indian-Food-MDH-Kashmiri-Mirch.html), is this a crucial ingredient? can I use Rajah Madras curry powder instead?
some dried methi - how much is this a pinch?
Sorry for all the questions ;)
And any comments welcome guys!
Cheers,
Del
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a pinch is normally 3 fingers grouped together, a chefs pinch is normally regarded as 4 fingers grouped together
regards
gary
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Right guys,
I tried out the SNS Saffron base and thought I would report back!
Great report Dell! Much appreciated! I wouldn't worry about the consistency, just add some water to thin it out a little! Alternatively evaporate less of at the curry stage, although I wouldn't do this myself... Just stick a little water in I reckon.
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dellydel,
you're up and running well done! the pics in the carton look like mine except a bit too thick (add more water - the base should not stand up ie soft peak).
i tend to take the scum off with a spoon - i've never really known whether it needs it. but making the full batch the level is further up my pan and easier to skim off. the only difficult bit for me is too get the scum off fast enough before the oil starts rising. Maliks video shows that they don't bother removing it so who knows.
on the oil not rising i would say down to not adding enough water after the main cooking stage ie making it quite thin which then thickens as the simmer evaps the water back off again. i've have found it takes at least 1 hr before i get oil though.
the garlic/ginger paste for me is best made fresh. i know others successfully use jars. i prefer to make it with less ginger ie 3:1 garlic/ginger. it does not need much water just enough to allow it to puree (1/2 way up the volume). i also add oil to help stop it turning green.
tom puree is out of tube or jar (double concentrate).
rajah chilli powder will be good.
kashmiri mirch is chilli powder. i swear by the rajah curry powder as part of the mix powder (spice mix).
a pinch for me is 1/3 tsp.
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Using this recipe as a standard base how much is it meant to produce in the end?
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Hi Del
Good report Del - you probably could have done the whole base in a 5 litre pot. Halving all the ingredients doesn't always produce the same result. I cannot see fresh coriander in the photos - this is quite important to the final taste.
Makes 2.65 Litres (reduce or extend final cooking time to achieve this)
Note: Measure 2.65 litres of water into your cooking pot and mark the surface on a rule or wooden spoon using permanent marking pen. Use this mark to check the base volume.
When you state 'garlic paste' and 'ginger paste' - are these made in a blender with water or are these in an 'off-the-shelf' tube form?
Tube form
'tomato paste' - again, is this just tubed tomato puree?
Tube form
'1 tsp chilli' - I have a pot of Rajah Chilli powder is this ok?
That'll be okay
0.5 tsp kashmiri mirch - is this just another type of chilli powder, as shown here, is this a crucial ingredient? can I use Rajah Madras curry powder instead?
Another mild sweet red chilli powder - mainly used for the red colouring.
some dried methi - how much is this a pinch?
I use about a tsp - but this is down to preference.
On the issue of the base being too thick, just add some water when cooking the curry.
I couldn't help noticing that your base lacks typical reddish colour ... this could be the camera of course. Did you remember to add the tinned tomatoes (and extra water) just before blending?
Regards
SnS
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Thank you all for your comments and advice!
@ SnS, I have just realised I have been following this (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2271.msg20262.html#msg20262) earlier version of your recipe rather than your newer adapted version here (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2757.0)! Hence no coriander! Doh ??? ::)
Im sure it will turn out great once it goes into the final curry. I plan on going with the Madras on the first page of the later link (SnS's Base Gravy June 2008), I presume it should still work with the older version of the base?
Cheers
Del
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Hi Del
Should be okay .. ish. ::)
I recommend you do try the SnS June 2008 version though, as this recipe was developed from my original Saffron recipes (also makes a more convenient volume) - and its easier to make.
Hope it goes well for you.
SnS ;)
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I will definitely try the new verion next!
As for making the Madras with the old base, you dont seem so sure it will work "Should be okay .. ish. " Why are you not convinced? Will the spices not balance well with the amount already in the base?
Cheers,
Del
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Hi Del
Try it - it should be okay. It will be interesting to hear how you feel the same Madras recipe compares using the two different bases ....
The modified base (June 2008) is more 'condensed' and therefore has a lot more flavour than the Saffron bases. Using the 'thinner' Saffron base, you may find that this Madras recipe lacks some 'depth'.
SnS
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Well guys,
I had a go at the SNS June 2008 Madras using the older SnS base from the Saffron (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2271.msg20262.html#msg20262)
Now with the KD 'Curry Secret' recipes you are not required to fry any of the spices in the currys I had made, they are added after the base sauce. So frying the spices was new to me! This resulted in the first one being chucked away as I badly burned the spices :'( ::) I have a 4Kw wok burner on my hob and I think I gave it far to much from the start when frying off the garlic / tomato / ginger pastes, then when I added the spices there was far to much heat in there and after about 20 secs the whole pan was dark brown colour and didnt smell to good!
So, second attempt I heated the veg oil then turned the heat right down removed the pan from the heat to add the pastes, then put back on on a low heat to cook them through! This time when adding the spices they didnt burn ;D. Im not to sure I know what is meant by this toffee smell? I mean I cooked the spices then after about 30 seconds or so I could smell them for sure, but not what I would call a toffee smell, infact I dont really know what toffee smells like if im being honest :-[
So on I went with the rest of the recipe which went rather well. As mentioned earlier though, my original base ended up quite thick i.e. not enough water added. So I was hoping to make up for this during the Madras stage, and I did end up adding probably about 200ml of water during the process (I was cooking for two portions with about 500ml of base sauce) although it soon boiled off as when I was cooking with the base sauce in I was cooking on high heat!
So anywway, the results!
Superb curry! Closer to a BIR than any of the KD recipes, however it wasnt quite there, I would say about 70-80%. I put this mainly down to my technique and this being the first one I have made this way. Although what I did find was that I had one or two mouth fulls when I thought, mmmm actually thats pretty close! So I am going to try another one this weekend with the same base and just practice my technique a bit and see if it gets any better.
I also plan to make up a batch of the 'SnS June 2008' Base to so I can see how that compares with the same recipie to the Saffron base!
I should mention that I cooked the chicken my usual way. Two breasts chopped into 5 pieces each. 2-3 Tbsp veg oil, 1 Tbsp of base and .25 tsp tumeric cooked in a sauce pan on a medium heat for 4-5 mins stirring constantly, then add chicken mix well, pop lid on and fry/steam for about 8 mins stirring occasionally!
So are the pics;
Just after the heat was switched off before stiring the corriander in and serving. You cant see in the pic very well, but the oil had seperated and had risen to the top during the making, maybe the flash is reflecting of the oil! It is probably a bit too thick in viscosity too!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/13112008957Small.jpg)
Finished curry! Sorry for the crap pic, the steam was getting in the way ???
Once served though I did notice more oil had risen to the top of the curry and it did look much better than it does in the pic!
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/13112008960Small.jpg)
So all in all, a step in the right direction for me, I cant wait to have another go and try the new base out in comparison!
Cheers guys for all you help and advice!
Del
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Great pic's Del your curry looks spot on, let us know how you get on with the next one, they can only get better 8)
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Nice one Del.
That 'toffee' smell is quite distinctive and should come with more practice.
btw, when adding water to dilute the base, add small amounts regularly rather than one larger amount. This keeps the heat up.
Regards
SnS ;)
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i agree with sns water the base not the curry!
regards
gary
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dellydel,
i too had difficulty with the term toffee smell. i added "choking" to it not realising at the time that this was down to chilli in the spice mix being fried. the "toffee" is the closest analogy that was seen to best describe what's happening - it refers to the smell from frying the spices. it proves that the spices have hit the right temperature to release the optimum flavour. it's critical at this point not to fry the spices further as burning or impairment will result.
it took me 3 months to perfect the method so you're not doing badly at all.
have a read of these posts for some background. the frying technique is a crucial aspect to get right:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2968.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2968.0)
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2444.msg22679#msg22679 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2444.msg22679#msg22679)
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Right guys,
I had another crack at it on Sat night and this time a big improvement!!
The curry was gorgeous and tasted pretty close to a BIR Madras to me! Again I was using the Saffron base with the Madras recipe in SnS June 2008 base.
The differences this time were;
3 tbsp of oil rather than two last time
Ginger puree brought off the shelf in a jar
Much better technique
The extra tbsp of oil I think helped to bring out the flavours in the spices and allow them develop, they definitely had much more presence in the final dish this time! This could of also of been helped by better timing when frying the spices (thanks for the links Jerry!). I waited until the smell of the spices became intense, about 15-20 secs then turned the heat up on full immediately adding about 100ml of base closely followed by about 50ml of water, at this point the curry was still sizzling so there was plenty of heat in there! Then continued to add the base bit by bit and cooked for about 15 mins in total topping up with water when it started to dry up! I also made a batch of CA's pilau rice which was gorgeous by the way! ;D
I should also point out that I still couldnt find any Kashmiri Mirch, I went to several few Indian groceries with no joy! So I used paprika instead.
So I am really happy with the result this time! A definite step in the right direction!
Here are a few pics;
Madras bubbling away nicely after all the base and meat had been added
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/15112008970Small.jpg)
15 mins later and reduced to my requirement
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/15112008972v2Small.jpg)
Final curry with the pilau rice, not a very good pic and presentation isnt great but I didnt care at that point, I just wanted to eat it ;D
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b338/delly1shot/15112008975Small.jpg)
Thanks again to everyone for all your tips and advice!
Del
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Nice one Del.
The Kashmiri Mirch is not compulsary. A sweet mild very red chilli powder it does add colour and a bit of heat, but paprika is probably close enough. You can get it from Spices of India (link at bottom of home page).
SnS ;)
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dellydel,
very pleased skills and dishes are coming along just fine.
the colour in the wok does not look right to me, "too pinky" but i've checked back and your carton's look just like mine in terms of colour and the colour of the finished curry looks good so i guess it must just be down to the light or the spices (timing when the photo was taken).
on your next batch of base (whatever recipe) u should get further improvement by getting the oil to release or removing some before blending. too much oil in the base is just as bad as not enough (in terms of taste).
i too go for 3 tbsp of oil sometimes at frying stage if i feel it needs it.
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the colour in the wok does not look right to me, "too pinky" but i've checked back and your carton's look just like mine in terms of colour and the colour of the finished curry looks good so i guess it must just be down to the light or the spices (timing when the photo was taken).
Probably a 'flash'. I've had this problem before - too much light reflection. Better taking the photos on a tripod at slower speed without a flash.
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Hi Jerry
This 'not tasting' thing is really as Bod68 said. They have done it so many times that they just don't need to.
If you have had any military experience, or know someone who has, you'd know, for example, that you can strip and rebuild a rifle literally blindfolded. It's just practise and repetition. Guns, food, same difference (well I've been close to death after some curries ;D )
Now, the other night I watched one of the chefs making the staff curry in a wok, and at the end of cooking in went the finger for a taste, and he added a bit more salt etc. So he cooks just like anyone else for their own food, i.e. he tastes to determine when it is right. So they do have that skill as well.
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Superb curry! Closer to a BIR than any of the KD recipes, however it wasnt quite there, I would say about 70-80%. I put this mainly down to my technique and this being the first one I have made this way. Although what I did find was that I had one or two mouth fulls when I thought, mmmm actually thats pretty close!
dellydel
great pics and great post
what stood out for me was this paragraph I've quoted above. Unfortunately, for me anyway, that's where I got and stayed! :-\
I'm still at the 80% mark.
Still It's great to hear that you had so much success on your first real try. Excellent.
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Thanks SS,
The second attempt was a big improvement no doubt about it and tasted good and close to my local Madras. Of course there is still room for improvement and im sure if I actually put a takeaway Madras next to the one I cooked there may be more difference than I thought. I think I may of gone from 70-80% to around the 80-90% margin.
Next step is to make up a new base, the SnS June 08 then try the same madras to compare bases. Following that I am keen to try various other recipes and carry out the true test as mentioned above putting a real BIR curry against mine and taste testing!
Del
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Secret Santa,
thanks for the post - put's my mind at rest.
They have done it so many times that they just don't need to.
i've been wrestling with being precis using chef spoons and having seen Maliks felt maybe i'm being too cautious. however given what u say i'll stick to the spoons.
i'm taken a back that u feel you've still got some mileage to go towards BIR (80% ish) - perhaps a new post something like, "what's best practise" may be of some help (i'm sure certainly for others) but appreciate it might risk trudging over known ground.