Curry Recipes Online
Supplementary Recipes (Curry Powders, Curry Paste, Restaurant Spice Mixes) => Supplementary Recipes Chat => Topic started by: joshallen2k on June 11, 2008, 04:49 AM
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I've noticed in a few posts (UB's Rogan Josh and Pete's CTM demo) the use of "Red Masala".
Essentially consisting of yogourt, red colour, Pataks Tikka, Tandoori, and Kashmiri Masala.
Pete's includes coconut powder, almond powder, and sugar - while UB's includes capsicum (presumably red), mint and onion.
What I'm trying to do is replicate BIR CTM. I've been using CK's CTM, which is 90% there. I'm thinking about replacing the tandoori masala in that recipe with some "red masala".
Question for the cr0 team - for CTM, which ingredients are must-have for red masala for CTM? How much? Would you think additional coconut block/sugar would be necessary if I used a dsp of masala? I'm thinking yes.
For SnS - I think at one point you suggested the Saffron in Lincoln used a different base for CTM and Korma. Did you ever find out what that was?
Thanks for any and all input! I've conquered Madras, Tikka, Pilau, and others, thanks to cr0. CTM is the main remaining holdout for me.
---- Josh
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Great post, this is exactly what i am currently trying to crack. I am going to try to get some ideas on the recipe for a proper BIR red masalla next time i visit my local favourite BIR. Hopefully the owner might drop a few hints if i spend enough on his takaway! will post any hints here ! DD
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Thanks DD. Look forward to it.
Any other input appreciated!
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Hi Josh, I have had some great results combining sweet condensed milk (4tbs), with creamed coconut (50g), and almond powder (30g) with a lightly spiced base + small amount of fresh coriander in last stage of cooking. This is obviously a korma recipe, but might also be of use to other sweet dishes such as CTM in slightly different amounts, possibly with added ingredients such as tomato puree and 1 tbs of ketchup, and a bit of coriander. Not sure if cardamon and clove would be included? what do you guys think? DD
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For SnS - I think at one point you suggested the Saffron in Lincoln used a different base for CTM and Korma. Did you ever find out what that was?
---- Josh
Hi Josh
I was at Saffron last night (and again this Friday!).
Following recent posts, there were a number of questions that I wanted definitive answers to.
1) How do they make the Korma base?
2) Do they use Ghee - what type and when?
3) Do they ever use reclaimed oil?
Last night I got the answers from Raj (Manager and Chef)
1) They used to make the Korma from a base, now they make make each one without using a base - this surprised me somewhat but I will endeavour to find out exactly how they make it (also CTM).
2) Generally no. Veg oil only.
3) Never, never, never (his words). Once the oil has been used it is 'contaminated' (his words again). The oil is left in the base gravy. Any excess oil in a curry is removed and thrown away. In his words ' if he found his chefs using reclaimed oil he would sack them.
Regards
SnS
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hi josh
i followed the recipe for pete's demo for CTM but left out the precooked onions, i only added 1dsp of "red masala" per portion and the people i cooked it for said they hadn't tasted a better ctm (in fact their mother who lives in croydon and who has visited many of the top restaurants in london and she said she could not believe how good it really was!)
so i would advise just follow the recipe and try leaving out the onions?
ps i use Rajvers curry base, will post the difinitive version as soon as i can.
regards
gary
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Thanks all.
SnS - yes, if you could find out how they make the korma (and CTM) that would be great. How could they do it without a base and still get them out quickly?! Very curious. Regarding the reclaimed oil, that too was a surprise, as others on the forum have witnessed the practice.
Gary - when you say one dsp per portion, you're talking about a single TA size curry (approx 250-300ml of base), right? If so, I can't see how that would be nearly enough coconut or sugar. Regarding the Rajver base, I thought this was already posted. Is there an update? Also, I thought the precooked onions were for the Korma only, not the CTM in Pete's post.
-- Josh
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hi josh if you read the chicken tikka masala/ korma demo it only states 1 dsp of tandoori spice mix and no sugar, yeah sorry about the pre fried onions you are right that is the korma recipe. i will try to recreate the ctm and try with and without the sugar, but as far as i can remember i did follow the recipe being the first time i had actually made ctm for someone else, the sweetness comes from the base sauce the cooking of the onions for 45mins with salt oil water ( browned garlic and ginger in the pan first) then add the onions and cook for 45mins with lid on you can smell the sweetness as it starts off with the overpowering smell of raw onions and changes over the course of the cooking.
hope this clears up the mystery
regards
gary
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Gary,
I tried the CTM recipe posted by Pete, using the Red Masala detailed on that post. As I expected, it was not nearly as sweet or coconutty as CK's.
As a test I will try CK's CTM, but replacing the dsp of tandoori masala with a dsp of the red masala.
-- Josh
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good post this Josh.
i'm surprised the CK CTM is not their for u. appreciate it's difficult to put in words but what do u feels missing in the taste.
i rechecked my slant on the recipe - i don't use ginger, i use more garlic, more tom puree, no chilli powder, more tandoori masala (i use just the powder form and add with the spice mix), use carnation, 50gm cream coconut per portion, no sugar, chopped coriander after base goes in.
on this dish the base does make a bit more of a difference - the rajver base is best suited. i also sometimes add a little of the paste used for marinating the tikka to give it a little extra lift.
interesting info by SnS on the Saffron reclaim - the reclaim has done wonders for me
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Jerry,
Don't get me wrong, the CK CTM is great. I've tried (in seriousness) probably about 50 CTM recipes and this is the best one I've found. Everyone I cook it for loves it. Here in Canada, no one knows what it is, but my CTM has become famous within the extended family. BIR converts in Canada - who would have guessed it! Some have even graduated to appreciating the Madras and Vindaloo!
In terms of what is missing, that is very difficult, as CTM is different wherever you go. Right now, I use the CK recipe as stated with the following change - carnation milk instead of cream. I tried the red masala (per Pete's recipe) in lieu of the tandoori masala, and I could not discern any improvement. To give an idea of comparison, my Madras/Vindaloo is now as good as I've ever had in a BIR. No further work necessary, although always open to try a good post on cr0. My CTM is probably in the top 20th percentile. No better than that. Korma is in the same boat for me.
As you suggested, the base may be the issue. I actually tried another base in the archive (forget the name off hand) that was "ideal for CTM". It had a separate tomato frying/melting stage, and the end result was a nice tomatoey base. I didn't recall the end result being markedly better than the Saffron, so I discontinued having two bases in my freezer.
What is it about the Rajver base that you think would improve the result on a CTM? Very curious. Also very interested in what SnS could dig up from the Saffron in terms of a dedicated CTM/Korma base. I was going to try that base (since I'm down to my last bag of Saffron) but I think someone was going to post an update to it ?
Maybe the secret for you is the tandoori masala you use. I think the ones I get here are crap.
BTW - I use the Blade Tikka recipe (no yoghurt - not BIR) and while the Tikka is fantastic, I'm wondering if the lack of "yoghurt residue" is partly to blame.
Sorry for the rant!
-- Josh
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josh,
i made CK CTM at the weekend using the CRO2 adjusted dev base. the CTM was ok but not as good as with Saffron and Rajver. so i think the base is more critical for this dish - the madras sauces i made from the same base were almost as good as when i use saffron or rajver or infindforu.
in terms of the rajver suiting CTM - i think you?re already on the right track with the fresh coriander. i also include coconut milk in the rajver base which i feel lends itself more to the CTM style curry. i think probably the garam masala gives an extra depth of spice that balances the sort of "blandness" of a CTM (meaning it's not a madras).
i think overall though the last few % (say 10%) are down to the tandoori masala (the one i use "Leena" is ground spices not a paste). i've tried making CTM without the bought spice mix and it's just not the same by a long way.
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I will try the Rajver.
A dsp of chilli powder, and 5 green chillies... to 750ml of water... plus garam masala and fresh coriander... why not.
My initial thought is it will have too much "bite" for CTM and Korma (but maybe great in a Madras?), but this is part of the quest.
Will report back...
--- Josh
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A dsp of chilli powder, and 5 green chillies
i suggest initially leaving the chilli powder out and reduce the green chillies to 1.
this is because i like a base to be adaptable and not chilli hot - i like to be able to control how much hot at the cooking stage.
the garam and fresh coriander work well (v.well)