Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: malacara on May 12, 2008, 10:55 PM
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Hi,
sorry for such a silly question but here it goes, I defrosted a lot of Saffron base a couple of days ago, I used part to make a biryani yesterday, a chickpea and vegetables curry today and still there is some left that I wouldn?t like to throw away (enough to make a small portion of bombay potato tomorrow ;D), the whole pot has been reheated every time I cooked, left to cool and take it back to the fridge, so what you think guys? should I use it or throw it away and then defrost some more?
Many thanks
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Throw it away. You should try to avoid reheating food more than twice. Reheating and cooling food means that it spends more time in the danger zone (between around 5 and 63 degrees Celsius).
Upon finishing cooking, you should cool food quickly and place it in the refridgerator or freezer. Exposing food to temperatures within the danger zone for the amount of time that reheating and cooling multiple times will, is very bad practise indeed. If this were to happen in, for example, a restaurant during an inspection, they would be in serious trouble indeed.
As far as curry base goes, I recommend buying the take out style microwave safe clear containers that hold around 300 - 400 ml each (I get 10 for a pound from the pound shop). Freeze these and when you want you use the base get it piping hot in the microwave (I usually do 2 mins, stir and another 2 mins), then add it to your hot pan while still hot. This both ensures that your pan retains heat and keeps your base outside the danger zone. Any base from that defrosted tub that I don't use (this rarely happens, 1 tub makes a medium sized curry for 2 people) goes in the bin. I think adopting more sensible storage methods will reduce the liklihood of you finding yourself in this situation.
Always remember members, "If in doubt, throw it out!" ;D
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Throw it away. You should try to avoid reheating food more than twice. Reheating and cooling food means that it spends more time in the danger zone (between around 5 and 63 degrees Celsius).
Upon finishing cooking, you should cool food quickly and place it in the refridgerator or freezer. Exposing food to temperatures within the danger zone for the amount of time that reheating and cooling multiple times will, is very bad practise indeed. If this were to happen in, for example, a restaurant during an inspection, they would be in serious trouble indeed.
As far as curry base goes, I recommend buying the take out style microwave safe clear containers that hold around 300 - 400 ml each (I get 10 for a pound from the pound shop). Freeze these and when you want you use the base get it piping hot in the microwave (I usually do 2 mins, stir and another 2 mins), then add it to your hot pan while still hot. This both ensures that your pan retains heat and keeps your base outside the danger zone. Any base from that defrosted tub that I don't use (this rarely happens, 1 tub makes a medium sized curry for 2 people) goes in the bin. I think adopting more sensible storage methods will reduce the liklihood of you finding yourself in this situation.
Always remember members, "If in doubt, throw it out!" ;D
Thanks Bobby for the answer, I?ll do that and I?ll be more careful from now on. I supposed that using high temperatures when cooking in the wok would kill everything but just in case I will throw it away ??? and defrost some more ;D
Regards
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I supposed that using high temperatures when cooking in the wok would kill everything but just in case I will throw it away
Cooking at high temperatures in the Wok probably will kill everything. However in this case it is the toxin(s) produced by the bacteria that will harm you. As they consume the base they excrete waste products, some of which may be chemicals harmful to humans. By the time your base that has been left in the "danger zone" too long gets anywhere near your Wok, it could already be a toxic soup, courtesy of the bacteria. Although they will be killed, their poisonous legacy could find you over the toilet for quite some time :P
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Re: 3 Day Base From Other Curry Forum
? Reply #13 on: Today at 11:06:17 AM ?
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Bobby Bhuna,
Let us know how you get on, locking thread for now as it serves no purpose on CR0
Stew
Bobby,
I'm a little surprised that Admin has said the above,
it couldn't be just because somebody has praised something on RCR, surely not...
Why lock the thread, but say "let us know how you get on"
I don't get it,
Sorry I posted it here but where else ?
Any way , good luck if you try another base, does it really matter where it comes from ?
Thanks,
Mick
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Multiple Reheating is a very dangerous game.
I will cook my base sauce once and cool and freeze straight away. I will then make a curry with the base which I will only ever reheat the once as the base has already been heated and cooled. High heat will always kill the bacteria but does not kill the toxins produced by them. Multiple reheats is a sure fire way for food poisoning.
I am trained in food hygiene.
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Ok, thanks for the lesson guys, it?s evident you know what you are speaking about, Ill bear it in mind and I?ll only reheat bases once.
I worked in a kitchen for a couple of months a few years ago in Edinburgh (don?t worry Bobby, not anymore, my irresponsible hands are far away from any Edinburgh restaurant ;D) but I did not even learn the basics ???.
Regards
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I worked in a kitchen for a couple of months a few years ago in Edinburgh
Oh Christ! ;D
Lol, while I was a student I worked in various catering establishments and have various basic qualifications in food hygiene. However this is something I was taught at school. To be honest, you're lucky to have got away with it this long. Oh well, you'll be fine now eh!
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Re: 3 Day Base From Other Curry Forum
? Reply #13 on: Today at 11:06:17 AM ?
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Bobby Bhuna,
Let us know how you get on, locking thread for now as it serves no purpose on CR0
Stew
Bobby,
I'm a little surprised that Admin has said the above,
it couldn't be just because somebody has praised something on RCR, surely not...
Why lock the thread, but say "let us know how you get on"
I don't get it,
Sorry I posted it here but where else ?
Any way , good luck if you try another base, does it really matter where it comes from ?
Thanks,
Mick
My thoughts exactly. CR0 is the only place for me but at the end of the day, I'm out there to make great BIR curries, not bitch about curry forums. I couldn't care less where a recipe comes from (so long as no-one was harmed in the making) although I am grateful to those offering them, as I am grateful to Stew for the upkeep for this site.
I think that the thread served plenty of purpose on CR0, due to the fact that curry recipes were being discussed, and I'm always willing to listen to new opinions / reports.
I'll be honest and say that I for one am disappointed at the action Stew has decided to take, as I was lead to believe that this is the kind of thing that went on over at RCR, not CR0. For me CR0 was about polite open discussion of BIR curry, which is what was taking place in that thread.
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hi guys
if the reheating of the base is dangerous how did a chinese stock keep going for 50 years! reheating and cooling i'm sure,it was only when the family were moving i think to england, that they had to leave the stock! so why is it harmful to do the same for the curry base sauce has no animal fats( which forgive any ignorance) were more harmful than veggie fats (cholesteral and that) hey maybe i'm wrong but if the sauce is cooled and then reheated then cooled and reheated again then provided it is not comtaminated with meat then surely the only toxins would be harmful would be the oil in it and i thought there was a certain amount of times that it can be reused!
most of the bases are or start out quite runny so the amount of oil would be minimal. am i wrong?
regards
gary
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i keep each base i make in the fridge and fry the curry from a cold base. if i was not going to use all the base within 7 days i would freeze some.
frying from cold works fine and i don't see a need to reheat.
Yes it does hog the fridge but that?s life
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i keep each base i make in the fridge and fry the curry from a cold base. if i was not going to use all the base within 7 days i would freeze some.
7 days is too long IMHO. I would keep a base sauce for 5 days at the very very most. Would you keep soup in the frdige for a week? I know that I wouldn't!
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hi guys
if the reheating of the base is dangerous how did a chinese stock keep going for 50 years! reheating and cooling i'm sure,it was only when the family were moving i think to england, that they had to leave the stock!
They obviously used the stock fairly regularly (otherwise why keep it for 50 years), so what would have been happening is that most of the stock was regularly replaced, leaving very little of the old stock containing the toxins.
so why is it harmful to do the same for the curry base sauce has no animal fats( which forgive any ignorance) were more harmful than veggie fats (cholesteral and that)
For the most part, animal fats are worse for your health than veggie fats, however we're not talking about how harmful fats are, we're talking about bacteria releasing toxins into food.
hey maybe i'm wrong but if the sauce is cooled and then reheated then cooled and reheated again then provided it is not comtaminated with meat then surely the only toxins would be harmful would be the oil in it and i thought there was a certain amount of times that it can be reused!
Vegetable / Sunflower oil are not toxins. A toxin is a poison produced by a living organism, such as a bacterium.
most of the bases are or start out quite runny so the amount of oil would be minimal. am i wrong?
There's a lot of oil in many of the bases from this site, not that this has anything to do with the number of times it is safe to reheat them.
Here's some material of relevance:
"Managing Food Safety: A Regulator's Manual For Applying HACCP
Principles to Risk-based Retail and Food Service Inspections and
Evaluating Voluntary Food Safety Management Systems" (Center for Food
Safety and Applied Nutrition, July 2005)
FDA
"Potentially hazardous food that has already been reheated should not
be cooled and re-heated a second time, to avoid the food being at
temperatures that support the growth of pathogenic bacteria four times
(cooling, heating and re-cooling and re-heating). If pathogens were
present in the food, they could multiply to dangerous levels."
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~acrobat/hret3.pdf (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~acrobat/hret3.pdf)
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Don't know about reheating numerous times as I have never done it although I did used to keep base sauce in the fridge for up to 2 weeks with no problems. There was one occasion though where I went to get the last of it out and some mold had formed on the top, I simply scraped it off and heated it up as normal, never done me any harm :)
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Don't know about reheating numerous times as I have never done it although I did used to keep base sauce in the fridge for up to 2 weeks with no problems. There was one occasion though where I went to get the last of it out and some mold had formed on the top, I simply scraped it off and heated it up as normal, never done me any harm :)
You guys are ******* gross!!! :o
Now I know where you're getting the "taste" and the "smell" from! ;D
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hi guys
if the reheating of the base is dangerous how did a chinese stock keep going for 50 years! reheating and cooling i'm sure,it was only when the family were moving i think to england, that they had to leave the stock! so why is it harmful to do the same for the curry base sauce has no animal fats( which forgive any ignorance) were more harmful than veggie fats (cholesteral and that) hey maybe i'm wrong but if the sauce is cooled and then reheated then cooled and reheated again then provided it is not comtaminated with meat then surely the only toxins would be harmful would be the oil in it and i thought there was a certain amount of times that it can be reused!
most of the bases are or start out quite runny so the amount of oil would be minimal. am i wrong?
regards
gary
this has nothing to do with oil. it is to do with endo toxins produced by bacteria in any food... not just curry sauce.
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Personally I wouldn't keep a base gravy in a fridge for more than a few days. Any more than that, you're inviting trouble. If bacteria (and toxins) multiply and decide they're going to get you, you'll only do it the once. Food poisoning is not nice, so its better to play on the safe side. A base gravy is relatively cheap to make - so why put your health at risk?
Basic food hygiene and common sense - isn't it?
SnS ;D
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have never had any problems with the 7 day fridge storage in - well quite a few years.
only had food poisoning on 1 occasion in my life - from up an upmarket place and put it down to prawns.
well impressed that i can now increase this storage period with safety margin to say 14 days - although in practise the 4.5l capacity of my pan means that it will be long gone in that time.
I do feel the reheating to be not a good idea down to the toxins and therefore fridge storage the best practical option
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have never had any problems with the 7 day fridge storage in - well quite a few years.
only had food poisoning on 1 occasion in my life - from up an upmarket place and put it down to prawns.
well impressed that i can now increase this storage period with safety margin to say 14 days - although in practise the 4.5l capacity of my pan means that it will be long gone in that time.
I do feel the reheating to be not a good idea down to the toxins and therefore fridge storage the best practical option
Don't do that. Let your base cool, separate it into portions and freeze. I notice no difference whatsoever using frozen base, and it's so much better practise.
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have never had any problems with the 7 day fridge storage in - well quite a few years.
only had food poisoning on 1 occasion in my life - from up an upmarket place and put it down to prawns.
well impressed that i can now increase this storage period with safety margin to say 14 days - although in practise the 4.5l capacity of my pan means that it will be long gone in that time.
I do feel the reheating to be not a good idea down to the toxins and therefore fridge storage the best practical option
upmarket / downmarket - does not matter what class the eatery is... it all depends on the kitchen... you ever watched ramsays kitchen nightmares? some very fancy restaurants with disgusting kitchens and staff.