Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: underwurlde on December 27, 2007, 06:18 PM
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1st attempt was unfortunately DISGUSTING!
???
I tried this curry base:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=674.0
With a good pre-meat recipe (this went OK, so I'll move on).
My 1st attempt was a Madras... simple enough I thought!
Heated 6 tbsp of oil until it was very hot, bunged in the spices for 20 secs, followed by some garlic paste and tomatoe puree, quickly followed by some base and the meat.
What I ended up with was not very flavoursome at all, VERY VERY dark brown horriblest curry I have EVER made. Yuck!
My conclusions: I think I have burnt something somewhere. I cannot explain why the curry I ended up with looked so horribly dark brown. I think it may have been the tom puree.
Also, I do NOT think that particular base is for the Madras type curries, to me the consistency is more akin to Korma / Massala dishes, hence to make matters worse this crap I cooked up just now was also stodgy.
Stodgy, dark brown, burnt, crap / no flavour. HORRIBLE.
Damn it! I was soooo looking forwards to a huge improvement....
Whaddya reckon guys, put me right here! ;D
Andy
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Hi Andy
Welcome to the forum and happy Christmas to you (I hope the curry wasn't the Christmas dinner)!
It sounds like you've burnt the tomato puree and maybe the spices and garlic as well. Perhaps the oil was a bit too hot (was it ghee). Why fry the tomato puree - it don't need it? Try adding a little water to the spices to make a paste before plunging into hot oil. This wont stop you frying the spice to release the flavours, but it will help to prevent the spices from burning if the oil is too hot.
This is a copy of what I sent Ast (new member) earlier this week which may be of help.
A proper BIR gravy does not have an array of different vegetables in it - or it is unlikely to give you the true BIR taste. What you'll get is a chef's adaption of a base gravy which may be better or worse than the average BIR. Your preference to what you add to the BASE gravy to suit your particular needs is based on personal taste. This can be only judged through experience, which will only come through trial and error.
It is better to start your experiments with a true base gravy and work from there.
A true base gravy (also known as DAAG) consists of onions, garlic, ginger, tomatoes, oil, salt and a number of spices, primarily coriander, cummin, turmeric and chili. The cooking process of the Daag will vary, as will the amount and the timing of the spices added. Each method will result in different taste. The daag may also contain some fresh sweet peppers, chillies and coriander.
If you want to try a simple base gravy (that can be later adapted to your taste), my advice is not go for a complicated one. Stick to the proven methods.
Although my gravy recipe is not exactly high-tech, it is simple to produce using basic ingredients, not overspiced and does give you the opportunity to create a variety of tasty BIR curries.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2189.0
In my opinion (and I hope others won't take this the wrong way), the base gravy should be very mild and bland and not in the least bit like a curry. Often I see base gravy recipes that have far too many spices added and I wonder whether there is confusion between a curry and base curry gravy. ???
CA also made a posting about this a little while ago, a lot of what he says makes good sense!
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2219.msg18770#msg18770
Rule 1 - Keep the base gravy simple!!!!
Best Regards
SnS ::)
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Do we take it all went well with the base sauce? ;D Sounds like you may have burned the spices. I don't usually add spices direct to hot oil. I normally stir fry some onions first then add spices. We have all been there my friend :( . Hope it helps.. ;D
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Heated 6 tbsp of oil until it was very hot, bunged in the spices for 20 secs...
That was your first mistake. Very hot oil + dry spice powders = nasty burnt taste! You should try to use the oil recovered from the base sauce when you cook that, it adds flavour and will not burn the spices as easily.
There's no harm in adding tomato puree but water it down to give a runny texture (or alternatively use passata), this will help prevent burning. With the darth base you used I think you could get away with not using any tomato puree at all for a madras, so you could try that.
Only add a small ladle of base sauce to start with an cook this down quite fiercely, then turn the heat down and add as much pre heated base sauce as you think necessary and cook until the chicken is heated through.
If you like your madras a bit sour flavoured add a tbsp of plain yoghurt at the end of cooking. This will also lighten the colour a bit.
It's all a matter of technique but I've certainly been where you are now so give it another try and let us know how you get on.
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"Heated 6 tbsp of oil until it was very hot, bunged in the spices for 20 secs"
No No No....
did you wear goggles :-0
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Thanks for your replies!
@smokenspices, no that was not our Christmas din-dins thank heavens! I did not use Ghee, I only ever use sunflower oil (as in this case) or olive oil. The base I produced was simple enough IMO, and it was as suggested ?bland?: However its consistency reminded me of Korma / Massala dishes, you know, slightly stodgy.
Yes I was a bit foolish with the heat, I read (rather mis-read) that ?proper? Indian chefs first get the oil very hot / smoking and then you bunged the spices in for 20 secs and then very quickly add the other spices. To date, I have never cooked this way, I would fry some onions for 5 mins, add spices and a splash of boiled water (to stop things sticking to the pan) and then took things from there (I have never created a ?base? curry? first, everything was cooked in the pan as a one-off).
Anyways, lesson learnt there folks!
@mike travis yes, base curry I created from the excellent thread I referenced above was spot on IMO, good consistency, colour, bland taste.
@Secret Santa & Graeme, agreed, obvious now really. I was a bit blinded by my excitement in seeing all of these ideas & techniques and tried to emulate them all in one go!
Anyway, the GOOD news is that using the same base & precook chicken, I went on to create a Chicken Korma for the wife. It is the most accurate Korma I have ever cooked and my wife was well pleased with the result: ?Just like from the Restaurant? she said, ?That?s the general idea!? says I.
So, getting there! I think in the future, lesson learnt with regards the heating of the oil, and I think I?ll be using this base here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1894.0
for Madras as it looks closer / uses ingredients, that more closely match what I use for my previous Madras methods.
Thanks again for all your help!
Andy
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I did not use Ghee, I only ever use sunflower oil (as in this case) or olive oil.
Hi Andy
Glad the Korma went okay for "the wife".
Just a small point - avoid using olive oil.
1) It can cause the spices to lose their individual flavours
2) It tends to burn easily at higher temperatures
3) It's more expensive than other "off the shelf" oils
Try to use vegetable or butter ghee, peanut oil, grapeseed oil, mustard oil, groundnut oil, sunflower oil or cornflower oil .... but avoid olive oil.
Best regards
SnS ;)
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@smokenspices
Thanks again for the tip there!
For my past recipes (life before cr0 that is), I started using olive oil on the recommendations of an Indian work mate who I had been getting many useful cooking tips from (in exchange for Italian and Chinese cookery tips from myself).
My family have never used ghee, always normal oil or even better olive oil
Who was I to argue.... But regardless, I shall avoid it's use from now on and stick to good old sunflower oil. I love it when the best ingredient is the cheapest most commonly available AND healthiest one!
Andy
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I normally have several different oils for different purposes.
Olive oil - for salads and dressings. Rarely cook with it.
Sunflower oil - for general use.
Groundnut oil - for stir fries where a high temperature is required.
Toasted sesame oil - as above for extra flavour.
Butter Ghee - for currys where the extra depth is required and sod the cholesterol!
Not forgetting things like butter, Flora, and beef dripping (essential for good roast potatoes!)
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Members might find this useful
The Smoke Point (degrees C)
Safflower 265
Sunflower 246
Soybean 241
Canola 238
Corn 236
Peanut 232
Sesame 215
Grapeseed 200
Virgin Olive 190 (depending on purity)
Ex Virgin Olive 160 (depending on purity)
Ghee (butter) 190 to 250 (depending on purity)
Lards 183 to 205 (depending on purity)
Each time you fry with oil, the smoke point is lowered - irreversibly.
Regards
SnS :-*
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Hey UW,
Perhaps my fully illustrated Bhundaloo thread may be of help http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2224.msg18930;topicseen#msg18930 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2224.msg18930;topicseen#msg18930) :P. I know it's a Madras you're trying to make but if you follow the instructions and keep to the times on the bottom right hand side of each image, that should see you through each of the main stages of the cooking process. Hope this helps! 8)
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Thanks again guys!
@fumble I have all those oils to hand in my cupboards, but majority I use for Chinese, to date (pre-cr0), like I said for Indian, only sunflower oil & olive oil, but now, I see little point in using anything other than sunflower oil.
I came across a very similar thing with regards smoking point of oils on Wiki (was that your source smokenspices?).
@Bobby Bhuna I read with interest your Bhundaloo (did you make that name up, vrey ingeneous if so!). I will definately give that a try sometime soon!
Today I used a base that I thought more suitable for Madras, this one here:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1894.0
Came out pretty well but I thought it a little sweet.
I have used some of this base to make a Jahlfrezi, which to my delight was bloody excellent. I chose Jahlfrezi because tonight I cooked for two as I did not have time for 2 separate recipes: my wife did not like the sound of trying a Madras so I went for Jahlfrezi instead (as you may have guess, she is more of a Korma chomper).
I will try that all elusive Madras again tomorrow using some of tonight's leftover base & pre-cooked chicken (which is now lingering in the fridge).
Thanks again everyone,
Andy
PS
Wife has spent all day a-fartin' ::)
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so I went for Jahlfrezi instead (as you may have guess, she is more of a Korma chomper).
Eh? Did I miss something there? Jalfrezi is usually very hot with whole chillies in it, was your version mild?
Wife has spent all day a-fartin' Roll Eyes
and that was before she had the curry :)
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Yes, Jahlfrezi is 'usually' hot, but to me a curry can be as hot or as mild as you want, in other words in my mind a certain curry means a certain flavour which you can vary the heat of to suit your taste.... This means that if you can't stand hot curries you can still try a vindaloo.... or conversely you could make a hot Korma.
This is just my opionion of course! Others may disagree, but lets face it, it is all a matter of personal taste.
and that was before she had the curry
I cannot possibly comment!
Andy
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Hi UW,
Yes, I understand what you mean about "personal taste". My preference is for a Chicken Tikka Masala "Vindaloo (or Phal) hot"!...and that usually throws them and creates a few puzzled (and even contemptuous) looks!...until they get to know you and replace it with a nod and a wink! :P
But, whatever your personal preference, an archetypal BIR Korma is very mild and creamy and an archetypal BIR vindaloo is very hot and somewhat sour. A typical Jalfrezi would certainly be towards the hot end of the spectrum (it does typcially have whole fresh chillis in, as SS points out).
Unfortunately, a hot Korma, or a mild Vindaloo, whilst arguably being very palatable, sure aint archetypal BIR fare! ;)
There are some definitives in BIR curry cooking, and this surely must be one of them!
Having said that, it would be great to know which recipe you used to make the "bloody excellent" Jalfrezi?
I cannot possibly comment!
Is that because you're still holding your breath then? ;)
PS: Lovely paintings by the way! 8)
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1st attempt was unfortunately DISGUSTING!...I tried this curry base:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=674.0
I presume you made both the curry base and the madras UW? They have both invariably had very favourable reviews by most people who have tried them.
I would agree that you probably burnt either the spices and/or the garlic, either of which will give a bitter taste.
As SnS suggest, try making a paste of the spices in water (or oil) to avoid burning them.
What I ended up with was not very flavoursome at all, VERY VERY dark brown horriblest curry I have EVER made. Yuck!
Something went seriously wrong UW ;D The curry base should end up a light brown colour (see the photos that people have posted in the thread) and the madras a darker brown colour
My conclusions: I think I have burnt something somewhere
Yep, seems so! ;D
I cannot explain why the curry I ended up with looked so horribly dark brown. I think it may have been the tom puree.
Maybe you simply burnt the edited by CA for inappropriate language! ;D out of the spices and garlic UW? ;)
Also, I do NOT think that particular base is for the Madras type curries, to me the consistency is more akin to Korma / Massala dishes, hence to make matters worse this crap I cooked up just now was also stodgy
The curry base is supposed to be mildly spiced ("bland") and versatile UW. You can alter the consistency, of course, by adding more or less water (or stock) until you get the consistency you require. It makes an equally good Madras and Korma, in my experience.
Anyway, the GOOD news is that using the same base & precook chicken, I went on to create a Chicken Korma for the wife. It is the most accurate Korma I have ever cooked and my wife was well pleased with the result: ?Just like from the Restaurant? she said, ?That?s the general idea!? says I
I'm slightly confused that you then used the curry base to make a Korma "just like from the restaurant" UW? Maybe you just burnt the Madras, did you, and not the curry base? Was the curry base a light brown colour?
....shall avoid it's use from now on (olive oil) and stick to good old sunflower oil.
Sounds like a good choice to me UW :)
Also check this previous thread regarding oils: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2139.0...it might be of interest.
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@CoriAnder: Great responses there! Thanks for taking much of your time in responding.
Re: Post #1
Yes CoriAnder, you speak the voice of reason & agree with all you say there - you are echoing many of my thoughts!
Thanks for the compliements about my Wife's paintings on her website BTW, I have passed them on (she is a very busy girl ;) )
Re: Post #2
The base went well & I see what you mean about it being suitable for all types of curry (I think)... I reckon most curry houses use about 2 or possibly 3 different base sources from which they derive all their dishes. For that first base I made to be more of a 'Madrassy / Vindallooy' type base in my mind I would have said that it should have been less smooth / creamy / and definately with some toms in it (that that base lacked).... but I guess toms could be added later. Do you see where my thoughts are coming from here?
Note: I am NOT rubbishing the base curries here or any other methods - let's get that staight. Apart from MY initial cock-up (the point of my thread was to really confirm in my mind where I had gone wrong) the two bases I have tried (one for the Korma, the other for the Jahlfrezi) went superbly well!!!! esp considering this is my first attempts using these new (to me) methods.
I'm slightly confused that you then used the curry base to make a Korma "just like from the restaurant" UW? Maybe you just burnt the Madras, did you, and not the curry base? Was the curry base a light brown colour?
Base went well, meat prep went well, cocked the Final Madras cooking bit up totally by having oil far, far to hot & not tempering it with chopped onions first! Base curry texture & colouration as good as the same as the pics kindly provided in the threads.
How I cooked my Jahlfrezi, Serves 2:
NOTE: you guys will have to spice it up heat-wise of course by adding chillies etc.
This is Wifey-MILD!
This base:
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1894.0
Pre-cooked chicken :
(Chicken simmered for 20mins in: Oil ? 4 tbsp, Water, Cinnamon stick ? 1?, Cloves ? 6, Crushed cardamom pods ? 3, Bay leaves - 2, Turmeric ? 1 tsp, Curry Powder ? 1tsp
Lemon Juice ? 1 tsp, Garlic Paste).
Jahlfrezi:
Oil ? 1 to 2 tbsp, Soy Sauce ? 2 tbsp, Creamed Coconut ? 1? cut from block, Tom puree - 2 tbsp, Red & Green Peppers ? largely chopped / quartered, Lemon Juice ? 1 tsp.
?Mild? spice mix ? 1 tbsp, fenugreek 2 tsp, mustard seed ? 1 tsp.
Usual method, heat that lot up, add base and then precooked chicken. Garnish with coriander before serving.
Andy
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I went on to create a Chicken Korma for the wife. It is the most accurate Korma I have ever cooked and my wife was well pleased with the result: ?Just like from the Restaurant? she said, ?That?s the general idea!? says I.
UW
Did you see the question I asked about this, a few days ago, under the 'main dishes' category for the 'chicken korma' topic (currently 2nd topic down).
I'm keen to hear more about your successful approach for chicken korma.
Regards
George
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See your thread George...
Andy