Curry Recipes Online
Supplementary Recipes (Curry Powders, Curry Paste, Restaurant Spice Mixes) => Supplementary Recipes Chat => Topic started by: coolinshot on March 26, 2007, 01:10 PM
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Hi
Not wishing to upset anybody who has posted recipes that have included "curry powder" but ......... isn't it a bit like saying, "now add a sprinkle of fairy dust and say the magic words".
Unless you mix your own you have got no idea what the ratio of the spices is - each supplier will have their own formula. You could have a favourite brand but surely this must be specified in a recipe (if posting for other to replicate).
If the curry powder is made up of the spices we are using anyway why not just list them with the rest of the ingredients.
I suppose Garam Massala is similar.
Col
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Hi CS,
I agree with what you say in principle CS.
However, in practice, I think that "curry powder" is often prescribed in such relatively small quantities that it is likely to have only a relatively small effect on the final outcome. That's why, in my recipes, I say that "any decent one will do".
Nevertheless, I agree that it would be more precise to either define the brand of curry powder (or garam masala) being used or, better still, to define the individual ingredients used to make it. This can sometimes present a problem in that some hard-to-find ingredients are then specified (Knorr Vegetable Bouillon Catering Paste anyone?)......but at least the options are then open I suppose.
In my experience, BIRs also use commercial blends of whole spices, masalas and pastes and generally do not know what they comprise of! :P
Regards,
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I think from reading old posts that a lot of indian chefs have said "use any curry powder" but i think on here a lot people support Rajah Curry Powder as the best
Stew 8)
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I have heard differing opinions regarding curry powder from chefs, the last one I was really friendly with totaly disregarded it and said they would never use it in the restaurant. There have been many more that have said it is used in spice mixes and the gravy so regardless of it's authenticity we know it is used by some BIRs. It's a bit like the excess oil and salt debate in that many don't agree with it but use it because it's needed to replicate BIR recipes.
cK
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One has to distinguish the different type of restaurant or Hotel and who their clientel are. When one is competing at rock bottom price lists, even chopping garlic becomes a financial issue. Curry powders and Garam Masalas are a time/cost saving ingredient no different to some restaurants who buy their base sauce in ready made. At the top end of the market We charge prices where the customer expects and gets all freshly made ingredients, spice wise this tends to be in indivual amounts as opposed to a mixture. :)
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However, in practice, I think that "curry powder" is often prescribed in such relatively small quantities that it is likely to have only a relatively small effect on the final outcome
- Cory Ander
....which brings me back to fairy dust. Why not just take full control and add more of the ingredients you are using anyway.
Here is some information taken from a survey of eight top brands showing the frequency next to the ingredient.
The top six ingredients are:
Coriander Seeds, Cumin Seeds, Fenugreek Seeds, Turmeric, Cloves, Garlic most of which are in the majority of recipes anyway. (see below for full list)
Curry Powder is based largely on four spices: coriander, cumin, fenugreek and turmeric, with the possibility of many other ingredients being included. Out of eight well-known brands of curry powder (see labels below), the following ingredients were used in the frequency indicated:
Spices in Curry Powder:
Times Used, Out of Eight Brands
Coriander Seeds, 8
Cumin Seeds, 8
Fenugreek Seeds, 8
Turmeric, 8
Cloves, 5
Garlic , 5
Curry Leaves, 4
Fennel Seeds, 4
Ginger, 4
Chillies, 3
Mustard, 3
Red Pepper, 3
Salt, 3
Cassia, 2
Black Pepper, 2
Poppy Seeds, 2
Anise, 1
Bengal Gram, 1
Cardamom, 1
Cassia buds, 1
Celery Seed, 1
Cinnamon, 1
Dill Seed, 1
Mace, 1
Nagkeser, 1
Nutmeg, 1
Onion, 1
Trifala, 1
White Pepper, 1
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The erudition displayed here humbles me.
We see a list of about 30 spices. In most cases the 'essence' of the spice is contained in an 'essential oil' (e.g. oil of cloves) and this has to be extracted from the spice and imparted to the sauce and other components of the dish.
The technique used must employ oil as the 'transfer' medium because essential oils do not dissolve in water. Some of these oils degrade with heat (e.g. essence of basil) yet heat is vital in the transfer process. I think this is why the spices have to be treated separately sometimes - a good chef instinctively knowing which spices transfer best at what temperature/frying-duration. Probably the spices used in curry are those which best withstand the necessary high temperatures.
For the uninitiated a list of spices together with their resistance to temperature might be useful.
Please do not think from my quite-arrogant tone that I have all the answers. If I did I probably wouldn't be giving you the benefit of my opinion.
"If you don't know how to do it yourself at least you can teach others".
Spotty
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Cory Ander
....which brings me back to fairy dust. Why not just take full control and add more of the ingredients you are using anyway
I agree that it would be more precise to either define the brand of curry powder (or garam masala) being used or, better still, to define the individual ingredients used to make it
:P
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For the uninitiated a list of spices together with their resistance to temperature might be useful.
Please feel free to post such a list Spotty :)
I'm sure we would all find it most interesting 8)
Regards,
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Great stuff, haven't had a decent heated debate since Yellow Fingers stopped posting 8)
cK
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Cory Ander
I don't have such a list but most of the common spices used in Indian cooking seem to be temperature survivors. In contrast, from my attempts at Thai cooking, I know that basil is not - you have to put it in late or you don't get the heavenly aroma. Garlic, too seems to suffer from heat, but the residue, while tasting different, is still lovely. Some Chinese cooks are expert at retaining 'garlicy' taste.
As I mentioned, I have a hunch that successful chefs know by instinct which spices should be added when. Surely there are people in this august group who have such an instinct - and know which spices can take a lot of heat and which can't?
While on this topic, I should like to ask about your namesake, coriander: about the seeds, which just about everybody adds to curry (Malaysians too, who seldom use jeera). If you taste the seeds they do have a mild aroma (but nothing like the intensity of, say, jeera or cardamom) - it has always puzzled me what coriander seeds actually DO - on the face of it they seem too mild-tasting to impart much flavour. Could somebody please straighten me out here?
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As I mentioned, I have a hunch that successful chefs know by instinct which spices should be added when. Surely there are people in this august group who have such an instinct - and know which spices can take a lot of heat and which can't?
Well as we all instinctively know, the essential oil of ground spices oxydates in the presence of atmospheric oxygen, specifically at high temperatures. Turmeric and ginger, for instance, are an integral part of Indian cooking. These spices are common food adjuncts that impart color, flavor and aroma. The active ingredient in turmeric is curcumin and that in ginger are gingerol and hexahydrocurcumin1-3. Both these compounds prevent oxidation of oils and fats.
.........isn't google wonderful - who would have thought making a curry could be so educational.
Why not use essential oils instead of ground spices?
Col
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The active ingredient in turmeric is curcumin and that in ginger are gingerol and hexahydrocurcumin1-3.
Good Lord, this is impressive allright! Now tumeric turns brown if you heat it too strongly; whether that changes the flavour I don't know. But what flavour does tumeric impart anyway - earthy? Or paprika for that matter - gulashy? Don't the other spices swamp them? Certainly the two work together to give a most appetising (and safe) colour.