Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: tomek on February 27, 2007, 12:19 PM
-
in your experience, how much of a difference does it make when using freshly ground spices as opposed to powders sitting on the shelf for a while.
i know with coffee the difference is night and day. there's nothing like the aroma and flavour of freshly ground coffee in my opinion, but do i stand to benefit as much when using freshly ground spices in my curry?
-
i know with coffee the difference is night and day.
IMO it's the same difference with spices as with coffee. I always ground my own spices as far as possible. The difference in flavour and aroma is huge, like night and day as you say. The whole spices should be fresh as well.
I bought some coffee beans from Morrisons yesterday. There was a poor choice of just three packs of whole beans and dozens of different packs of vastly inferior ready-ground. People are so lazy / uninformed. They don't know what they're missing. My next step is to get green coffee beans and roast my own, for even more flavour, just like you can do with roast cumin seeds and other spices for Indian cooking.
Regards
George
-
I know what you mean about coffee. Do you just grind enough of each spice then George each time you make a curry.?
-
I would say that the majority of BIR's will not bother to gind their own, prefering cheap of-the-shelf packets like Rajah. I'm sure that some do but whenever I have used freshly ground spices the taste is way of any BIR i've been in.
cK
-
I agree CK,
Over the years, I have moved away from freshly ground whole spices to commercial ground spices and curry powders. This is also in an effort to get closer to the BIR taste. I find that freshly ground spices are simply too aromatic and pungent. I find that commercial ground spices and curry powders produce a far more "diffuse" flavour, in comparison, and produce a taste more closely resembling that produced by a BIR restaurant.
Regards,
-
Do you just grind enough of each spice then George each time you make a curry.?
Marc
Yes, that's right - just ground enough whole spices for each cooking session. That way, the aroma/potency is held in, within the whole spice.
When I first made some Indian curries - from Madhur Jaffrey's books in the 80s as it happens, I used spices which had been hanging around for some time. The curries did little for me. When I next tried them I was in the Middle East where the spices are much fresher, due to the greater turnover. The same dishes came alive. It was a transformation.
Regards
George
-
The same dishes came alive. It was a transformation.
Regards
George
Yep In my opinion I totally agree George your spot on buddy !
Layne :)
-
I agree CK...Over the years, I have moved away from freshly ground whole spices to commercial ground spices and curry powders. This is also in an effort to get closer to the BIR taste. I find that freshly ground spices are simply too aromatic and pungent. I find that commercial ground spices and curry powders produce a far more "diffuse" flavour, in comparison, and produce a taste more closely resembling that produced by a BIR restaurant.
Cory and CK
You may be right but isn't this a bit sad? i.e. if it's the case that you need to 'dumb down' a recipe by using arguably inferior spices, in order to get close to the BIR taste, even though nobody has yet persuaded anyone else that they have truly cracked the elusive BIR taste?
I use Rajah curry powder because I wouldn't know how to mix a DIY blend to get the same fragrance. But if I had their secret recipe for the blend, I would make it myself from whole spices.
I had enjoyed hundreds of BIR curries by the early 80s when I first went to (then) up market restaurants like 'Last Days of the Raj' in London. Their flavours were superior to my local BIRs. Perhaps it was because they used fresh spices, amongst other superior elements.
Regards
George
-
ok, i'm sold on the idea and will give it a try.
i've found whole coriander, turmeric and cumin, so i'll grind them next time i make a curry and report back.
-
Hi George,
I agree but it's a similar situation to the olive oil debate, it's better for you and it doesn't make that much difference but if your trying to duplicate something it does. I've only tried freshly ground spices a few times and the resulting currys were not what I am looking for but that was a few years ago so might be worth trying again.
cK
-
ok, i'm sold on the idea and will give it a try...i've found whole coriander, turmeric and cumin,
Tomek
Whole turmeric? Wow! I've never seen that.
If you want to try a recipe with whole spices, I suggest you couldn't do much better than try Madhur Jaffrey's Rogon Josh recipe, as recently put on this site by Tempest63. Where the recipe says to use ground spices, go as far as you can to grind them yourself, minutes before use. Some spices, cannot be found whole, of course, but go as far as you can. Also be sure to use Madhur Jaffrey's mix for garam masala. It could ruin the dish if you use garam masala from a commercial pack, especially if the pack has been open for more than a few hours. Also do be sure to use fresh coriander leaves, if it uses any. Don't even think about using dried coriander leaves.
CK
>it's better for you and it doesn't make that much difference
>but if your trying to duplicate something it does.
I agree!
Regards
George
-
ok, i'm sold on the idea and will give it a try.
i've found whole coriander, turmeric and cumin, so i'll grind them next time i make a curry and report back.
Hi Tomek,
I would caution about attempting to grind whole tumeric. It is probably too fibrous for you to do a good job (like pure ginger). I suggest this is one spice (at least) that you buy already commercially ground!
Regards,
-
AYHHHH thats were my old Hammers come in lol.
No i say, if members want to use fresh Spices , much respect form this ol Darklord.
there is a difference, but if you are really trying to emulate a BIR, don't bother, on the other hand if you want o make a Curry to Die for, grind the freshest, whole Spices you can find.
I'm sure many will agree if you want the best thats the way to go, but Bir emulation is the majorities goal ...i think.... 8)
-
Totally and I think that's the difference from where I am now and where I was back home.
Over here the aroma hits you like a block of stone but I have to say I think I prefer it to what I had or what I can remember of what I had. For some time now I've been needling myself on how I cook my Indian, always suspecting that I am doing something wrong. I think as I have said a number of times on here so far that they just doing things slightly differently.
Fresh whole spice might just be one of them?
I find that commercial ground spices and curry powders produce a far more "diffuse" flavour, in comparison, and produce a taste more closely resembling that produced by a BIR restaurant.
Regards,
-
Hi George,
I agree but it's a similar situation to the olive oil debate, it's better for you and it doesn't make that much difference but if your trying to duplicate something it does. I've only tried freshly ground spices a few times and the resulting currys were not what I am looking for but that was a few years ago so might be worth trying again.
cK
I have to disagree! Using olive oil is adding an entirely new ingredient/flavour. I think that when it comes to curry ingredients, fresher is better! It's not like your adding an alien flavour to the dish by grinding fresh. Furthermore, the turnover at a BIR vs a home kitchen is likely to mean that the pre ground spices they use are fresh by comparison to those found in the kitchen cupboard.
I just have sad images of faded, half empty Schwartz bottles emerging from the dusty spice rack in the rarely-opened cupboard. I imagine you would just have to add more...
Also, even if your whole spices have been kicking around for a while, once ground, they will still be better than pre ground that has been lying for the same amount of time.
I think that not grinding fresh is a step backwards in the quest for the BIR flavour.
-
I think that not grinding fresh is a step backwards in the quest for the BIR flavour.
Robert
I must say I couldn't agree more with the whole of your post and thoughts on this matter. It's interesting to hear others' points of view though, and I respect their choices, even if deliberately using pre-ground (often stale, after just a few hours) spices is not for me!
Regards
George
-
Maybe I got it wrong when using whole spice's, the resulting currys have been nice but not anywhere near a regular BIR. This may be down to the fact I havn't been eating BIR curry's for as long and modern BIR's are of a lesser quality?
It is probably that we are all after different things so maybe the 'how much would you pay' idea might only be considered a success by 50% of us :-\
-
...and modern BIR's are of a lesser quality?
If my experiences are anything to go by that's exactly the case. I just couldn't figure out how people were saying that they'd made this or that curry and it was as good or better than a BIR curry, and had the taste and smell of their local BIR. I believe them now because most of the recipes on this site can equal or better most curry houses' efforts, but I don't half miss the real smell and taste of old.
-
To be honest, I love the quest for the perfect BIR curry. It inspires me to cook and makes me look forward to dinner. It's great socially - I'm often cooking Curry's for my friends, gf and family who all love them.
I think if I did perfect the BIR curry, that would be quite sad. Another box ticked but no more curry related banter - and it is great banter ;D
For example, I went to work on Friday, and had a Tupperware box with a curry in it. I use lots of oil and some speckles of food colouring in my rice. The tub leaked into my bag, covering my belongings and I in strong smelling oil :o
When I went to lunch and heated up my curry, all of the oil from the curry had seeped through the rice, swamping it and changing it from lovely red flecked pillau rice to this radioactive red goop. Anyway, this curry stank ::)
All my work mates were giving it the whole "toilet roll in the fridge" thing and the toilet humour progressed. I had way over spiced this thing and the smell was really upsetting my friends! During this furour, I had a brilliant vision intended to soothe. An invention to aid all those curry addicts made to feel uncomfortable in the workplace! The Yogurt Nappy. The yogurt nappy had us all in tears of laughter, with images of presenting the product to dragons den. I think I'd struggle to keep a straight face when they asked me my estimated projection :P
I think what I'm trying to get across here, is that BIR curry chasing is a great thing to do. It provides good food for you and your loved ones, offers excitement and opportunity for innovation, and provides us with cracking good banter. Experimenting with freshly ground vs pre ground spice is all part of the adventure and although my preference is fresh, I suppose it's whatever appeals to you.
::) Sorry for such a long, slightly idealistic, borderline offensive and almost certainly off topic post! 8) BB.
-
Just noticed a few remarks about the olive oil debate on this thread. I think that olive oil is lot more healthy owing to its relatively low percentage of saturated fat, and high amount of the benefitial mono unsaturated lipids. Oils high in poly unsaturated fats (e.g. sunflower oil) are better than saturated. However I have read somewhere that on being heated the 'poly' tend to be converted to the VERY unhealthy trans unsaturated fat (even worse for you than saturated).
I use groundnut oil. Not only is this nearly as high in the 'good' mono-unsaturated lipid as olive oil, but it has the advabntage of a relatively neutral taste. Olive oil is my choice for mediteranian grub, but dies not work in a curry in my opinion!