Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Main Dishes => BIR Main Dishes Chat => Topic started by: curryqueen on March 24, 2005, 03:59 PM
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This was truly an experience I had been waiting for!? Waiter sat us down with poppdums and pickles and a drink.? Ten minutes later we were presented with our chefs whites and were taken downstairs to the kitchen (smaller than I thought it would have been) but nevertheless everything in place and to hand for creating these wonderful curries.? Again the BIG pot of gravy was standing on top of the cooker blipping away, yellow with a red/orange oil floating on the top of it.?
We were being taught by a chef called John, he was Indian despite the name and a very nice guy!? I think Pete had a different chef and was shown a different gravy to what we were shown.
Here goes!
GRAVY
Onions about 2 pounds
1 carrot
1 med potato
1 green pepper
1 green chilli
1 dessertspoon ginger/garlic paste
1/4 pt vegetable oil
2 dessertspoon curry powder
1 teaspoon turmeric
1 dessertspoon tomato paste
1/4 pt water
1/4 pt veg ghee
Put all the ingredients above into a pot except curry powder.? Cook until onions, carrots, potato are soft and then add curry powder and cook for another 20 minutes.? Blitz.? ?Put back on heat a simmer for another hour, when the oil will rise to surface.? I was told that if you want more oil so that you can take it off, then put extra in at the beginning.? I would also like to add at this stage that during our demonstration, the chef used the oil from the top of gravy ( he had scooped it out and was using it from a different pot.)? Chef also told us that they do freeze gravy, so that if they run short they only have to dethaw it.? But in general they make it daily.? Right, recipe for prawn vindaloo coming up!
Prawn Vindaloo.
3 tabs oil from top of gravy into a hot pan.? Add half teaspoon chopped garlic and sizzle 20 seconds, then add half teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon tomato paste, 1 dessertspoon curry powder, 3 teaspoons chilli powder and cook on for another 20 to 30 seconds.? At this point add 1 ladle gravy and cook down. Add prawns and another half ladle gravy and cook down to consistency required.? Sprinkle with fresh coriander and voila, you have a vindaloo in about 4 minutes.
Again chefs answer to "what spices are in your spice mix" he replied, "just go into shop and buy curry powder from shelf".? Restaurant light and bright with a contemporary feel.? We were welcomed with open hands.? Chef said that if I need to know anything at all about the lesson to email him and he would get right back. They were all very helpful.
This is one for you all to try over the Easter Hols and I hope you enjoy!
I feel that the missing element from the gravy is the green pepper.? Take a good long smell once you have made it and you'll see.
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excellent stuff. I shall give this a go at the weekend!
did you make the gravy at the lesson or use the pre-made stuff? I'm wondering if cooking for the times given will give that special flavour?
cheers
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I can't see myself that different times will produce different tastes/flavours or smells. Yes I did use the gravy already made there and I am quite certain that the pepper gives some extra aroma to the gravy. It is the ingredients that go into the gravy/curry that determine the flavours I am sure
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Well done Curryqueen.
Definitely a recipe I shall use.
It's a totally magical experience being there, isn't it?
I'm so glad that you had the curry gravy demonstration too.
I wondered about the pot of oil they used.
He never said to me that it was scooped from the top of the gravy.
Mind you, the chap I had, wasn't too good with his English.
Brilliant.
Thank you.
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We were being taught by a chef called John, he was Indian despite the name and a very nice guy! I think Pete had a different chef and was shown a different gravy to what we were shown.
Many thanks for reporting on your visit. Re. the gravy / base sauce, the one thing I would expect from a restaurant would be consistency. My own taste supports that from place to place, year to year, even decade to decade.
Pray tell me how they could get any consistency if the base sauce in a single restaurant differs from chef to chef, depending on who makes it that day.
Conspiracy theory: John has one 'private' recipe and that's what you were told about. Pete's chef has a different 'private recipe' and that's what he was told about. And the restaurant's own base sauce remains a secret.
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dear George
you are 100% right about what you said
if another member go there and asked about the curry gravy they will show him a totally different gravy not like the one they showed to Pete or to the Curry queen.
believe me they will never show the origanal with that very very nice missing taste.i have my own experience with chefs and their trade secret recipes.
thanks
ghanna
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GRAVY
Onions about 2 pounds
1 carrot
1 med potato
1 green pepper
1 green chilli
1 dessertspoon ginger/garlic paste
1/4 pt vegetable oil
2 dessertspoon curry powder
1 teaspoon turmeric
1 dessertspoon tomato paste
1/4 pt water
1/4 pt veg ghee
Put all the ingredients above into a pot except curry powder.? Cook until onions, carrots, potato are soft and then add curry powder and cook for another 20 minutes.? Blitz.? ?Put back on heat a simmer for another hour, when the oil will rise to surface.? I was told that if you want more oil so that you can take it off, then put extra in at the beginning.? I would also like to add at this stage that during our demonstration, the chef used the oil from the top of gravy ( he had scooped it out and was using it from a different pot.)? Chef also told us that they do freeze gravy, so that if they run short they only have to dethaw it.? But in general they make it daily.? Right, recipe for prawn vindaloo coming up!
It's not that different.
The initial ingredients are the same
Onions,carrots,potato,chilli,garlic ginger puree and green pepper
It does wander off after that though
No almonds , coconut, kashmiri masala, condensed milk
Here is the one I was shown again:-
The Onion Gravy
Ingredients:-
2 large onions sliced
1 green pepper sliced
1 medium potato sliced
3 tablespoons Garlic ginger puree
1 carrot unpeeled chopped
1 cup of vegetable oil
? cup vegetable ghee
1 desertspoon salt
2 desertspoon turmeric
2 desertspoon of Pataks Kashmiri Masala
2 green chillies chopped
2 whole tomatoes from a can
Water equal to half the volume of the above
i.e. if the above comes to half way up the pot, then add a quarter of a pot of water
Boil the above for only ten minutes.
This is until you can see the sliced onion wilting
Now add:-
2 desertspoons of curry powder (rajah)
2 desertspoons of ground almonds
2 desertspoons of coconut powder
2 tablespoons of condensed milk
Cook another five minutes and then blend
The mixture is bright yellow
Add enough hot water to make it very runny
About half it?s volume again
This doesn?t look like your finished oily curry gravy but I was told with more oil, and longer cooking, it would.
As far as the chef was concerned, we had what we wanted.
Perhaps only certain ingredients are vital to create the flavour.
The rest you can just fill in with what is available
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Dear Grimmo,
Have had demo from another Indian chef and the gravy from Bengal is almost the same. What they are up to between the 2 chefs I don't know! When I made Pete's base and used it i found it to be too rich with condensed milk, coconut milk etc. Try the basic gravy ( which is what they use in restaurant kitchens - low cost which is onions, carrots, pots etc and then you will smell the missing ingredient that is in there! It is the green peppers I am almost sure. The gravy from the other chef, used when cooking a curry was spot on too - no mistake!
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Two questions to the brick lane demo attendees:
Did you actually get to taste compare the base sauce that was in the big pot that they had made and would be used for their own restaurant curries against that which you made yourself?
If I read the posts correctly, no one seems to have done this and it is the most obvious thing to do to get an answer to the secret ingredient question.
Did the recipes you made while at the demo genuinely have the unmistakable missing flavour/aroma/depth that you would recognise in any takeaway bought curry?
I'm firmly of the opinion that their and every other curry house's base sauce contains something which they are not including in their demo, and the "it will get better the longer you cook it" explanation is their way of avoiding the issue. If longer cooking were the answer then Pete, bless him, would have the most flavoursome restaurant like curries in the universe.
And this brings me to conclude, assuming that the above is correct, that the brick lane demos are a waste of money unless you are a complete novice to the art. You are basically getting fleeced as they are not actually demonstrating the real deal.
Those of you that have posted your experiences have done a great job and I don't mean any offence by the foregoing, but until someone stumbles on the ingredient(s) they are leaving out of their base sauce then this is just a circular argument which will just run and run.
The real test would be to cook the same dish at the demo, once with their base sauce and then with the fresh made demo base sauce! I predict one would taste like takeaway curry and the other, well...
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Hmmm.
Just thought Id give this one a try, green peppers, carrots, potato, sounds more like a vegetable stew. Hey thats just what it smells
like.
So now I have a large saucepan of thinish yellow liquid.
I changed the recipe by browning the garlic and ginger paste in some of the oil before adding everything else. Also added more water as it looked much to dry and thick.
Still it doesn't smell or look as good as the Gravy posted by Pete, which is about as near to the take-away taste I've got so far.
Infact this one looks like it could never work, maybe that is the missing alchemy.
So my tea tonight (missus is going out so no complaints) will be a prawn vindaloo, think I'll throw in some potato to add a bit of interest.
Fingers crossed.
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? Chef said that if I need to know anything at all about the lesson to email him and he would get right back. They were all very helpful.
Could you ask the chef if they ever put chicken stock into the curry gravy?
Maybe you could also ask for the quantities of ingredients when making up a big pot.
I emailed them after my lesson and got no replies.
Thanks cq
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well I cooked a curry using this gravy and I must say it's not a patch on Pete's 600ml oil one.
God I can taste carrot, yuk.
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Pete you have brought up something I meant to mention a while ago, try adding chicken stock instead of water to the base, I would make sure it contains MSG (could be called a number of things on the packet like flavour enhancer)
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I don't know if chicken stock is used but if I were a savvy curry house owner I would waste nothing. On this basis the 'stock' that the pre-cooked chicken is made in would go straight into the base sauce pot, so there may be some mileage in the chicken stock idea.
I feel sorry for the unwitting veggies if this is so however, tucking in to their veg massala curry not really knowing why it tastes so good.? ?:-\
But that may very well be why the chefs are so reticent to fully demonstrate or even explain their base sauce in full.
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Hi all,
I have read a couple of times before that takeaways / restaurants use chicken stock in their curries. The type used was said to be the powder type that smells like chicken crisps and not the oxo cube type which is quite salty anyway. ?I dismissed the inclusion of chicken stock on the grounds that they wouldn't use it because it wouldn't be suitable for vegetarians. ?Having said that, I have thought many times that tarka dahl from my local takeaway has an underlying taste of chicken ???
The one type I bought to try and never really gave it much of a go was Knor granulated chicken stock which does smell like chicken crisps.
Cheers,
Blondie
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Hi Blondie
I have noticed a chicken stock flavour in some of the curries I have had but it doesn't have to come from the use of chicken stock.
When I first started into making restaurant style curries I used Kris Dhillon's book (didn't everyone?) and I followed the recipes to the letter. One of the curries, and only one, had this exact same chicken stock flavour, but if you read her book there is no actual chicken stock used in any of the curries. Unfortunately I can't remember which one it was, other than it wasn't one with cream or yoghurt in it, but it may well have been the dahl now that you mention it.
So the lesson is that that chicken stock flavour, which I really like BTW, doesn't necessarily imply the use of real chicken stock or cubes!
Damn. I wish you hadn't mentioned this, I'm now going to have to 'do the Dhillon' again!
Also that particular stock that you mention; do you have a brand name?
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Hi Yellow Fingers,
I said in the post above that the ready made stock that I found to have the Chicken Crisp flavor, which is what I had read was needed was Knorr chicken stock granules.
Cheers,
Blondie
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Thanks Blondie.
What I meant was, did the article you read suggest a particular brand, even if it is no longer available?
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Hi Yellow fingers,
Knorr is the brand name.
Cheers,
Blondie
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Hi Pete,
I have already tried to email them and guess what! No reply. I don't know why because they were so full on and attentive during lesson. It can't be where they are so busy, because before lesson I emailed them loads. I'll try again though.
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Hi Pete,
I have already tried to email them and guess what! No reply. I don't know why because they were so full on and attentive during lesson. It can't be where they are so busy, because before lesson I emailed them loads. I'll try again though.
Same here, cq, same here!
Do you think we have been duped?
The curry gravy isn't right is it?
When you make your Bengal curry sauce, does it turn out? thicker than mine?
Being as that makes a very large proportion of the vindaloo, it has got to be exact, hasn't it?
The main flavour will come from it.
I feel like giving up.
How many hours do we spend on this?
I think we have the several correct curry bases on this site.
But in the restaurants they are adding to the pot all the time as they salvage the oil off the cooked dishes.
If you bought a curry on the first day they make the base, I bet it would taste like one of ours.
I'm trying a few of the recipes from this site tonight.
I've gone back to the base that uses the 600ml of oil.
That seems very hard to beat
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Hi Pete,
Yes my gravy did turn out thicker than yours. Please don't give up - although I know you really don't mean that!
I think that we should get on the the Bengal and have it out with them. Having said that, they might get suspicious. I suppose we could be just friends or neighbours, couldn't we? I do feel very cross about the gravy, but I do feel that the green pepper enhances the smell and flavour.
What do you think then? Shall we accost them or not?
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Did anyone who attended the brick lane demos actually eat in at the Bengal BEFORE going on the course? This is what I would have done because if their curries have that special flavour and I then made the same one on the demo and it didn't, I would be pretty miffed. I really think that they are just doing enough to make it all look authentic, but they are actually missing something out.
Also if these guys have e-mail it's almost certain they have googled for their course or restaurant name and will already be watching this group, which could explain why they are not responding to your e-mails. They don't want to be pestered for the missing technique/ingredients perhaps?
A note to the admin(if you read this): why have you got an american spell checker on a British web site?
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Hi Pete,
Yes my gravy did turn out thicker than yours. Please don't give up - although I know you really don't mean that!
I think that we should get on the the Bengal and have it out with them. Having said that, they might get suspicious. I suppose we could be just friends or neighbours, couldn't we? I do feel very cross about the gravy, but I do feel that the green pepper enhances the smell and flavour.
What do you think then? Shall we accost them or not?
I don't see what we can do if Bengal has misinformed us.
They don't seem to reply to emails and they are too far for me to casually visit.
The staff all seemed so nice , though.
I am surprised.
If anyone else goes on this course, they must be very careful of this curry gravy issue.
Taste the stuff in the big pot and check if it has the flavour.
If you can't get this right, then you can't cook it at home.
I wouldn't mind making the gravy in the same quantity as them.
It freezes ok, I've tried it with loads of curries.
The main ingredient goes a bit soft, when thawed, but it still retains that delicious flavour.
I would have two months worth of gravy, made in one go.
The demonstrated curries at Bengal are very easy to cook.
That leaves only two possibilities of error.
The curry gravy is wrong or
You can't get the required heat on your cooker.
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but I do feel that the green pepper enhances the smell and flavour.
and yes, I think green peppers are an important ingredient.
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The trouble with asking to see the base sauce cooked at these places is that you will always have a scaled down version, also maybe they are expecting people to just request demo's of the various standard curry dishes and never imagined people would request the base? I suspect a failry unskilled chef could reproduce most BIR curries given a good base
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Hi Pete,
You do need to have a decent amount of oil when making the base and also when you are making a curry. Curry gravy plus 3 to 4 tablespoonss of oil will give a curry the exact consistency of that of an Indian restaurant/take-away!
I think I am going to do what you have suggested and that is to put excess oil (or some of it) from each curry I make in future back into the pot of gravy. Trouble is when it is all used up then we will have to start from scratch again, unless, we keep a new batch on the go topping up the original. I made a prawn vindaloo and prawn pathia this weekend, so we will start with those. One thing you have to bear in mind, is that if you only make a couple of dishes the flavour probably would not be the same if you were making say 20 to 30 dishes or more like restaurants.
Glad you like the peppers, they do give a certain aroma of their own to the base. One day, just one day, we will get there!
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hi ,curryqueen
they used only 0.25 pint water in the gravy that they showed you ,this is why it is thick .
you need to use at least 2 pounds of water ( 1 liter ) i.e the same weight of onion.
this is the classic proportion of onion to water as i have been told by different chefs,
but in the restaurant when they showed you they couldnot use this amount of water because it is going to take a long time to evaporate, the water measurement is not that important you can add more if you find out that the onion is still raw and not yet cooked.
i am sorry it didnot work for you this time.
thanks
ghanna
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hi ghanna, I know they only used 1/4 pint of water. I posted the recipe just as they had shown me. Anyone on this site would know that it's not going to work out if they know about gravy/base's used. I always use 2pounds onions to 2 pints water to 1 pint of oil or so. You are the only one that noticed this and remarked on it. I wonder how the others got on?
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hi, curryqueen
i have been tricked and deceived by so many chefs, cookery book writers, formulas on the net, because of that i am very careful now.
thank you
ghanna