Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: After8 on November 29, 2006, 09:26 AM
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Hell Me again,
Just made two curries lats night - one Madras and one korma. I more or less follwed the KD spice recommendations, but added creamed coconut to the korma. It was by far the best of the two, not too sweet. I skimped on the oil with the madras and I think that may have made a difference.
The spices in the Kris Dillon recipes are just lobbed into the sauce, as opposed to frying them in oil first, and I wonder if this makes a difference. I've always been happy to avoid frying them first, as I don't want to burn them and spoil the dish. Bruce Edwards says fry them first, but there always seems to be a pepper in there which may absorb some of the heat. This doesn't seem rigth, especially for a smooth Madras.
Be interested to hear your thoughts. If frying them is best, then perhaps there is somewhere on the site that tells you how to do this without burning them.
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I always fry spices first in oil and believe this to be crucial in creating a great curry.
If you find that you are burning the spices start by using a low heat and gently fry them for a couple of minutes, if they do burn and turn black then bin it and try again. As you get more confident turn the heat up and this will allow you to cook them for less time.
If you browse through some older posts this subject has come up and is talked about quite a bit, if I can find any interesting threads I will post a link back here.
cK
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....If frying them is best, then perhaps there is somewhere on the site that tells you how to do this without burning them....
Hi After8,
Frying spices is essential to:
a) remove the "rawness/bitterness" associated with uncooked spices
b) release the "essential oils" in the spices (and thereby release their flavour)
Frying the spices (whether whole or ground) is invariably done at the beginning of cooking....i.e. after cooking any garlic, onions and ginger.....and prior to adding any meat/curry base/vegetables, etc (at least this is how I do it :P).
However, some spices (e.g. garam masala) are generally added towards the end of cooking without frying.
If anything, I would air on the side of caution and undercook the spices. As CK suggests, if you burn the spices, ditch them and start again, because they will be bitter and ruin your curry.
Personally, I generally add water to powdered spices to make a thickish paste (of similar consistency to tomato puree). This reduces the chance of them burning during frying. They are cooked when oil rises to the surface (the "bhoona" process).
Alternatively, if you add the powdered spices directly (i.e without making a paste with water), add just enough water (no more than about 1/4 of a cup or so), a little at a time, after about 10 seconds, or so, to stop the spices from sticking and burning.
If I fry whole spices, I fry them (the "bargar" process) for about 20 seconds or so (until they just begin to change colour...no more), before adding the paste of powdered spices.
In my opinion, never skimp on the oil. A reasonable quantity is essential to adequately cook the spices and distribute the flavours throughout the curry.......any excess oil can be removed prior to serving.....just my opinion of course :P
Hope this helps.
Regards,
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Whole spices such as Cassia, Mustard Seeds, Cummin, Curry leaves etc needs oil at a very high heat to start with (Tempering) they will spit and pop this is the best way for them to release their flavours then turn down heat for powdered spices.
Your oil will take on all the flavours of these hard spices ready for the next stage ie onions tomato puree etc.
Hope this helps
Layne :)
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This is a Fab site, and I thank you all for the advice.
The next Madras I make (which is my sort of benchmark curry) I'll fry the cumin, chili and coriander in a paste, then will add the tomato puree. The garam masala can go in when I turn the heat down after the intital 2 minute blast on the base sauce, before finishing off with fenegreek at the end.
It's interesting (and confusing) to note that the same spice can indirectly go into a curry a number of times - garam masala has coriander, cumin and ginger in it and curry powder contains coriander turmeric, cumin, garlic and fenegreek. These all seem to crop up an their own in most curries.
By the way, I'm afraid got a bit big headed the other day and I've invited the whole family round for Indian food. The only way I can handel it is to pick the dishes off one by one, and freeze them. I'll do the naans on the day.
After8
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Hi After8 I concur with all that has been said before. It is essential to fry the spices first (see hints and tips - link below). I prefer to make a paste of the spices for frying where it is feasible, but I prefer to use oil and possibly a tiny drop of vinegar to make the paste not water as Cory suggests (he is not wrong - just another technique). The reason being is I prefer a slow release of flavours and water tends to accelerate this. The other point about frying slowly is very valid unless you are doing a Bargar or Tempering. A good way to fry the spices is t heat the oil for about 2-3 minutes an a low heat and drop in one mustard seed. If it takes its time to pop then you have the right temperature. Now add your spices and stir continuously in to the oil for about one minute. Then switch off the heat and keep stirring for about another minute or until the oil separates from the spices. This way you reduce the risk of burning.
Happy Cooking
CP
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1268.msg11122#msg11122 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1268.msg11122#msg11122)
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::) ::) I use the same method as Layne and make a spice puri. As he quite rightly states this minimises the risk of burning the spices
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Since my last post I've made two Madrases.
With the first, I used a spice paste as suggested above. This tasted OK, but could have been better. With the second one, I fried a few onions, then a bit of puree and then threw the spices in, frying them for no more than 20 seconds. I'm sure the onion helps to deffuse the heat - Bruce Edwards uses a pepper which, I guess, does much the same thing.
Because things are very much at the experimental stage, the spice mixes weren't the same, but the second curry was a real corker.
Wearing my white scientist's coat and clever spectacles, and holding a clipboard, my observations were:
1The oil in the second curry was bright red (could have been the puree) and when I tasted the oil on its own it was very spicey.
2 The second curry tasted by far the better.
3 Garlic powder seems the way to go with a Madras - it seems to bring the garlic flavour to the foreground in a way that the fresh stuff can't
I deduced that:
1 If I skimmed the oil off, then I'd also be skimming off most of the spice flavour.
2 Perhaps the KD recipe has been adapted to make it easier - the spices are cooked in the initial 2 minute full-bore blast.
3 I wondered about the presence of the tomato puree - It can be overpowering, even in small amounts and it has that boiled tasted that I'm trying to get away from. Has anyone ever tried using condensed tomato soup!
4 Eating lots of curries can give you a sore arse.
As you can see, I'm flying by the seat of my pants here, but having fun!
A8
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Great stuff and thank you for the feedback After8. You are on the right track, and powdered Garlic and Ginger are the staple ingredient for Madras and Vindaloo Phalls etc. There are many comments on this throughout the Forum.
The earlier comments on cooking spices are sound advice so I will not elaborate, other than to add that if you are using onions you should always chop them very finely and cook until opaque in lots of oil before you add powdered spices (not a BIR method), you cook whole spices briefly before you add the onions. It is also better to mix your chillies fresh garlic and fresh ginger in with the onions before you fry them.
I would not use Tomato soup because most of them have traditional herbs in them to enhance the taste but knacker the curry flavour, but BIRs do add Heinz CoTS to CTM. I suggest you make a puree out of fresh or tinned tomato (remove seeds and skins) then cook in lots of oil with a little sugar and salt to balance the flavour and act as a preservative. If you keep the puree covered with oil at all times you can keep it in the fridge for a while.
Hope this helps, happy adventuring
CP
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realy pleased things are starting to happen in the kitchen now After8, We've all been there at sometime, so the moral is the more experimenting you do the more you learn, and that's what keeps us all going. {I don't think the moral is one of Darth's though }.
Curry one Dude
Paul
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Yeah, I'm turning into a proper curry anorak. I'll give me guts a chance to recover, and will be back in there.
Has anyone tried that restaurant spice mix that Bruce Edwards recommends?
A8
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Hi After8, Yeah I tried the Bruce Edwards mix when I first joined the forum, but to be honest I personally prefer to use ChiliPrawns and Darthpall's mix's.
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I'm reluctant to ask this, but has anyone tried using curry powder to totally replace the mixture of various spices. This would explain how so many small outfits can achieve consistant results without the years of experience.
A standard curry would use just the curry powder ( mild madras), with extra chill for the hotter madras, then more still for the vindaloos. The high turnover of this one particular thing would also mean it was constantly fresh.
This site in the link may interest - if you click on the products it sometimes gives you a list of their ingredients. I think I may have ballsed up the link, but here goes!
http://www.simplyspice.co.UK/ground-spices-c-15.html?page=1 (http://www.simplyspice.co.UK/ground-spices-c-15.html?page=1)
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With the second one, I fried a few onions, then a bit of puree and then threw the spices in, frying them for no more than 20 seconds. I'm sure the onion helps to deffuse the heat - Bruce Edwards uses a pepper which, I guess, does much the same thing.
Hi Mate,
When frying something with water content (ie tomato paste and onions) the temperature in your pan wont go much over 100C, of course it depends how much of this content is in the pan as to how hot other areas of the pan will get but for example if you added a load of oil and a load of onions in a pan and cooked it on high the temp wont go over 100C until almost all of the water has been driven out of the onions.
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hi guys
the spice mix i'm using at the moment is .......
2 parts turmeric
1 part coriander
1 part cummin
1 part garam masala
1 part chilli powder
1 part curry powder(only an addition to my Rajver masala)
turn out some fantastic curries mainly vinadloos but tasty hot and the missus scoffs the and hiccups :) that's more than enough commendation. sorry all the above spices at the moment are rajah. asda do the 100g bags for around 48p a bag.
regards
gary
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I'm having the folks around for curries next weekend, so I set about making them to freeze (sauces only - will lob the chicken in on the day)
I made four, two were identical dopiazas, apart from the fact that I pre-fried the spice mix on one and just threw it straight into the sauce on the other. The flavours were quite similar, but the textures were very diffrent.
The fried spice curry had that fluffy texture, you know, where the sauce never seems to mix with the oil. The other had that BIR smoothness, like a soup. It seems like the frying process sort of locks the spices into the oil so they can't mix with the base.
I tasted both, and preferred the non-fried one, though both were
fine. Maybe pre-frying is best for dishes which have little or no base, but loads of oil.
One other interesting point, both curries tasted completely different, after thay had been left to settle - the flavours come out a lot more.l
BTW, I also found that fennel seeds give rice a nice aniseedy overtone.
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Hi A8, I and others have written many lines of text on this subject, and I guess you are learning (the hard way maybe which isn't a bad thing). If you read hints & tips there is loads of feedback with stuff about the oil & water issues. To be honest both approaches are correct, but do you want a BIR approach or a Traditional approach because that is where the main differences lie. If you use water the product will not freeze well (I have spent years perfecting freezing techniques for the business). Water is used in traditional because the meal will be eaten when it has finished cooking. Basically water breaks up the spice and releases the flavour and thats it; so you choose when to add it to adjust the flavours of the dish. It always better to add an emulsion rather than water, e.g. thinned yoghurt or milk.
Please follow this link http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php)
CP
PS How was the Madras?
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Hi After8.
I have used just Curry Powder in the final curry cooking/making stage & have found it makes a decent enough basic quick Curry.
But i use my own base which has an already high depth of flavor compared to many basic bases like KD's which makes it easier to make quick good tasting curries.Coupled with a load of Chilli powder it works bloody well.
Seasons greetings
DARTHPHALL
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I always fry spices first in oil and believe this to be crucial in creating a great curry.
If you find that you are burning the spices start by using a low heat and gently fry them for a couple of minutes, if they do burn and turn black then bin it and try again. As you get more confident turn the heat up and this will allow you to cook them for less time.
If you browse through some older posts this subject has come up and is talked about quite a bit, if I can find any interesting threads I will post a link back here.
cK
I definitely have to agree with you here.. I've always fried spices in oil first and have also found it's an absolutely essential in getting the taste you're after in a curry.
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I haven't done the madras yet, but I'm toying with using just curry powder with a bit of extra chilli, some garlic powder and possibly ginger powder, then finally adding some garam masala if needs be. Curry powder is, after all, just a spice mix. If the madras turns out to be crap then it'll only be me that eats it as I'm the only one in the family who'll eat anything remotely hot - I'll just pretend it's nice.
I used a Fairly bland base so I could adapt it for the creamy stuff and this all turned out well.
A8
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I forgot to mention the 'curry Powder'. Yes I do use a particular mix for just one recipe I use in the biz. I do fry it in lots of oil with some fried onion (pulp) base first, the base reduces the amount of sticking as we probably use about a quarter to a half kilo per batch. You can just fry it in oil at a medium heat.
CP