Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Stu-pot on March 28, 2015, 07:48 PM
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Has anyone out there found themselves unhappy with the recommended
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Sorry about that... What I was trying to say "is anyone else unhappy with the recommended mixed powder" ie. Mild Madras Curry powder, add Coriander, Cumin, Turmeric, Paprika and maybe one or two other powders?
I am. Maybe it's just down to personal taste but I've thrown away huge quantities of base and "finished curries" because there was a "TWANG" in the flavour, especially noticeable towards the end of eating the curry! I have discovered my base gravy was "spot on" if I used another mixed powder AND my "finished curry" was "spot on" if I used another "mixed powder"! Since this discovery I have discarded the recommended "mixed powder" and introduced my own "mix" and everything has changed.
Has anyone out there experienced the same? I'd love to hear from you.
Cheers
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Er, no. But that's because I don't used "mixed powder" at all. I use individual spices, and while I can see that for a restaurant, trying to bash dishes out at a rate of knots, a mixed powder can save time, I cannot see what possible benefit it can bring to the home chef (rather like a chef's spoon, in fact, but let's not go there).
** Phil.
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Er, no. But that's because I don't used "mixed powder" at all. I use individual spices, and while I can see that for a restaurant, trying to bash dishes out at a rate of knots, a mixed powder can save time, I cannot see what possible benefit it can bring to the home chef (rather like a chef's spoon, in fact, but let's not go there).
** Phil.
Phil, did you really just say all that? Are you serious?
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I cannot see what possible benefit it can bring to the home chef
Oh, I dunno, just off the top of my head, how about matching BIR style curries? Sort of the point of the forum innit?
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Phil, did you really just say all that? Are you serious?
Completely serious.
Oh, I dunno, just off the top of my head, how about matching BIR style curries? Sort of the point of the forum innit?
Absolutely the point of the forum. My point is that to re-create the flavours of the BIR, one does not a mix(ed) powder, an aluminium frying pan, a 6kW industrial burner or a chef's spoon -- all that is needed is the necessary individual spices [1], any suitable pan, any suitable hob and any suitable stirring implement. And good technique and a good recipe.
** Phil.
[1] I should probably add that by "individual spices", I do not exclude proprietary blends such as curry powder (I use Bolst's) or Bassar curry masala -- rather, my point was that taking curry powder, the proportions of which are almost invariably unknown, and then adding to it further quantities of the spices that it already contains, storing it in a jar and labelling it "my mix powder" is a complete and utter waste of time. Far better (IMHO, of course) to add appropriate amounts of whatever spices you feel are essential to re-creating the flavours of a particular dish rather than having a generic "mix powder" ("one size fits all") that you add to everything. If "mix powder" really were essential to re-creating the flavours of the BIR, do you not think that Messrs Rajah /et al/ would have cottoned on to this and one could then buy "mix powder" in any half-decent Asian store ? Rajah have a "mixed masala" (as, I am sure, do the other major players in the game) but how many BIRs use it as their standard "mix powder" ? Very few, if any, I feel sure. Each BIR, and probably each BIR chef, blends its/his/her own, for speed and consistency, but this is surely not a route that we have slavishly to follow. The curries that I make following Kris Dhillon's recipes and methodology use no curry powder (or BCM) at all; some of those that I make that are "derived works" may use either or both, in addition to spices individual to each dish.
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I find myself, sadly, agreeing with Phil (to some extent) :'(
However...you do, Phil, negate your own argument, partially, by confessing to the use of some proprietary spice mixes. Don't you think?
Many spice mixes use proportions such as 12:8:10:4:3:5 for various spices. To recreate those proportions by using individual spices for a single curry is rather difficult, so I can understand why people make up a 'mix' which suits their tastes and can then be added a spoonful at a time to their curries.
I do, however, tend to follow your approach of adding a little of what I think is needed for each dish and use a very bland 'mix powder' when a recipe calls for it.
Apart from that, I agree wholeheartedly about the pan/burner/spoon :)
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Though provoking thread ???. Differing opinions appearing already. I'm looking forward to hearing others opinions on this as i'm sure most of us will certainly have a take on what's been posted so far, including the chefs spoon ;D
For me, one very obvious reason for using it is consistency. There are enough variables already when trying to recreate BIR. Using mix powder removes one of them. That's not to say once you have conquered all these that one should not start to examine and experiment with the mixture of spices :)
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However...you do, Phil, negate your own argument, partially, by confessing to the use of some proprietary spice mixes. Don't you think?
I can see how it can be interpreted that way, and to a certain extent I agree with you, but I am pragmatic -- I have, for experiment, cooked a curry using /only/ Bolst's curry powder (no other spices, other than the turmeric and paprika in the base) and it was a very acceptable, authentically BIR, mild chicken curry. But when I want to cook a Madras, or a Vindaloo, or a Bhuna (or whatever), whilst I may on occasion include some of Mr Bolst's finest, I mainly want to add individual spices in individual proportions that are appropriate to that dish. Sure, I could have cupboard full of "mix powder"s, one for Madras, one for Vindaloo, one for Bombay, one for Bhuna (sorry, George, none for Korma or CTM !) and so on. but it is far simpler (and better, IMHO) to blend the spices afresh for each dish.
Many spice mixes use proportions such as 12:8:10:4:3:5 for various spices. To recreate those proportions by using individual spices for a single curry is rather difficult, so I can understand why people make up a 'mix' which suits their tastes and can then be added a spoonful at a time to their curries.
Agreed, and understood. Unless you have a good eye, or are willing to go very slowly and weigh everything on an analytical balance, then you are unlikely to achieve that exact ratio other than by good fortune. But my argument is that whilst that ratio might be ideal for (say) a Vindaloo, it might be completely unsuited to a Bhuna (and /vice versa/).
Apart from that, I agree wholeheartedly about the pan/burner/spoon :)
Oh dear, that's twice we've agreed now. We really must stop meeting like this ...
** Phil.
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Could be the start of a lasting bromance :o :o
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Could be the start of a lasting bromance :o :o
Where a "bromance" is a romance with bromide ? Can't think of anything less (b)romantic, myself ...
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I'll cancel the wedding then, Phil.
But, as CH says, it's an interesting subject. I look forward to hearing others' opinions :)
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Ah, bromide. A chef's spoon each for the pair of you. That should quench your ardour ;D ;D
Back to mix powder though, i'm no chef but if it's good enough for an average BIR chef then it's certainly good enough for me. I certainly do not know better than them or anywhere near as much. When i reach the standard of turning out good quality basic BIR using the knowledge here, only then can i be ready to move on to the next level. Maybe that's the difference between your average and good BIRs and those that really are a cut above the rest and at the top of the profession.
For me though, i need to learn to crawl before i start walking let alone trying to run ::)
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One simple mix powder i always use is called Dhana Jeera (Dhanajiru Powder)
I always mix my own often grinding the the spices.
But i don't make a meal of it :-)
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I always mix my own, but i don't make a meal of it :-)
;D ;D ;D Very good Graeme
So i take it you sit in the "no to mix powder" camp then? Obviously the masala you describe is predominantly coriander and cumin with other possible additives like cassia, cloves, black pepper etc. Do you use the same proportions all the time when you make it? Do you use curry powder at all?
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This site is about BIR so 90% of the time
i am very much in the mix powder camp.
Yes Curryhell :)
The list of spices you mention i would normally
use as or within a Garam masala.
Used either whole or ground, they are all quite dark strong spices.
Also i would use (for example) madras curry powder in a spice mix, but
it would be only about 1/6th-1/8th of the mix.
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Back to mix powder though, i'm no chef but if it's good enough for an average BIR chef then it's certainly good enough for me.
Your comment fits with my finding on your samaosa filling recipe, for example. I think your recipe used mix powder and due to that, and for other reasons perhaps, it tasted like a average BIR samosa, i.e. dull and uninspiring.
I agree with others who suggest that individual spices are the way forward. Like Phil said, how can it make sense to add more of the same spices to a carefully blended curry powder which already has those ingredients?
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I agree with others who suggest that individual spices are the way forward. Like Phil said, how can it make sense to add more of the same spices to a carefully blended curry powder which already has those ingredients?
I think if your are replicating BIR then using a mix keeps a dish and taste, aroma consistent, no matter the chef cooking that dish the particular day. Consistent results.
I think someone posted dull and uninspiring, then this would suggest the dish or spice are not being cooked correctly, when these elements come together they are flavours we lust after and try to replicate.
I have no problem using individual spice in cooking and do it often in traditional Indian cooking, cos that's what it is.
Chefs spoon, one of the most versatile utensils in a home kitchen, IMO. Especially when cooking bulk for a large family and using deep pots and high heat.
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Maybe the OP is making an error in the reading of the terms "mix powder" and "mixed powder". In reference to BIR style cooking, when I read the term "Mix Powder" I associate it with an individual chef's own (secret) mix of single spice powders. As opposed to a proprietary "Curry Powder" mix.
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It may be worthy of note that Kris Dhillon, who was my guiding light in the early days of my BIR journey and to whom I always return when I feel that I have strayed too far from the path, makes no use of either "mix(ed) powder" or curry powder (her basic spices are ground chillies, ground jeera and ground fenugreek, together with the paprika and turmeric that she has used in the preparation of the base), but she does make use of her own version of garam masala which she introduces part-way through the cooking at the same time as she adds the ground jeera and ground fenugreek. Her recipe for garam masala includes coriander, cumin, green and black cardamom, cloves, black pepper, cinnamon, bay and nutmeg, all initially whole and then ground (unroasted) until smooth before storing in an airtight container.
Maybe the OP is making an error in the reading of the terms "mix powder" and "mixed powder". In reference to BIR style cooking, when I read the term "Mix Powder" I associate it with an individual chef's own (secret) mix of single spice powders. As opposed to a proprietary "Curry Powder" mix.
All of the mix(ed) powders for which I have seen a recipe, here or elsewhere, use curry powder as one of the ingredients. Bruce Edwards, for example, uses coriander, turmeric, cumin and curry powder (with optional paprika); the Zaal uses curry powder, coriander, cumin, turmeric, chilli and garam masala; Abdul Mohed uses curry powder, paprika, turmeric, coriander, cumin, garam masala, tandoori powder; Salvador Dali uses mild Madras curry powder, turmeric, cumin, coriander, paprika, garam masala, ground fenugreek and garlic powder; and so on.
Also this quote from Curryhell is highly significant :
Bear in mind that after the intial grind Az wasn't happy with the cardamon overpowering the mix and added additonal cassia bark and Asian bay so you may want to add another stick of cassia and 2 or 3 extra bay leaves. The powder should be darkish brown and the smell of cardamon should just be detectable whereas the cassia and bay should be fairly prominent.
In other words, while the amateur chef may make his (or her) "mix(ed) powder" by formula, the seasoned professional adjusts the quantities on the fly to achieve his/her desired goal ...
** Phil.
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One of my earliest confusions in relation to mix powder was the inclusion of "curry powder" as a listed, but non specific brand ingredient. I think the use of individual spices will give far more control but if one has a preferred mix, there is no problem.
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Mix powder all the way for me.
Started off many moons ago with the Kris Dhillon recipes, but after these sites, my curry dishes improved significantly (BIR tastewise) with the use of mix powders.
Out of interest, apart from Phil, who else still uses the Kris Dhillon recipes?
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Your comment fits with my finding on your samaosa filling recipe, for example. I think your recipe used mix powder and due to that, and for other reasons perhaps, it tasted like a average BIR samosa, i.e. dull and uninspiring.
Thanks for the feedback George. It's always good to hear comments from members who post their recipes and share their cooking experiences for the benefit of other members. There are one or two on this site that should try it sometime ::)
Rest assured i will post an appropriate response to your comments in the correct thread when I have time. Perhaps LC was right though
I think someone posted dull and uninspiring, then this would suggest the dish or spice are not being cooked correctly, when these elements come together they are flavours we lust after and try to replicate.
And a further correction, the samosa spice blend contained a proportionate amount of mix powder among other individual spices ;)
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Out of interest, apart from Phil, who else still uses the Kris Dhillon recipes?
I don't use the recipes any more but I fall back on the base sauce on occasion as it's a very good neutral one.
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I'm for mixed powder. I find it amazing how you can use the same powder for many recipes and yet they all manage to be different when you add other spices in addition to the mixed powder. I haven't found that much difference with most 'standard' mixes when used in identical recipes though, it's very subtle. That's my opinion. I have tried several on this site including Abdul 8 spice, JB's and CT's and despite these all being fairly different in the ingredients they have only had a small impact on the final dish when all the other ingredients are the same. I have tried several bases and I find they have a bigger impact.
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I have tried several on this site including Abdul 8 spice, JB's and CT's and despite these all being fairly different in the ingredients they have only had a small impact on the final dish when all the other ingredients are the same. I have tried several bases and I find they have a bigger impact.
I'm inclined to agree with SoberRat. In the past some people have banged on about a mix powder being "matched" with a base. What makes this "match"? The only match I ever saw was the base contained the same mix powder as that being used in the finished dish::). I think the flavour and "quality" of the mix powder and the base becomes more obvious in curries that contain very few ingredients ie, basic medium curry, madras and vindaloo. As soon as you start adding, peppers, onions, red masala, etc. etc the impact of the flavour of the base and mix powder is greatly lessened. It almost becomes just like a stock. The more ingredients you add, the less impact the stock has on the finished dish.
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I think someone posted dull and uninspiring, then this would suggest the dish or spice are not being cooked correctly, when these elements come together they are flavours we lust after and try to replicate.
Perhaps it's just that we 'lust after' different flavours. Do you really think I don't know how to follow a recipe correctly? There's nothing wrong with preferring 'average' BIR flavours but it's certainly not what I'm after, having enjoyed amazing, superior flavours in a select few BIRs. To that end, I have some further ideas and will post them in another thread under 'suggestions'.
Also, my suggestion a few years ago, to hold 'come dine' type dinner parties in each region, was to try and understand the flavours we are talking about. Despite what you say, perhaps I'd rate the taste of your curries very highly, and be swung back towards mix powder. But very few people were interested, suggesting a lack of confidence, perhaps.
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Have you mastered any of these amazing, superior flavoured curry dishes yet George?
If so, I would love it if you shared some of your recipes to try.
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So Stu.....does that answer your question?
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Your comment fits with my finding on your samaosa filling recipe, for example. I think your recipe used mix powder and due to that, and for other reasons perhaps, it tasted like a average BIR samosa, i.e. dull and uninspiring.
I agree with others who suggest that individual spices are the way forward. Like Phil said, how can it make sense to add more of the same spices to a carefully blended curry powder which already has those ingredients?
The point members are not taking in to account here is whenever you cook any BIR dish, or use any pre-made spice mix you need to cook then walk away from the environment without tasting the dish!
When returning to the dish reheated or fresh plated by another person this will give a whole new perspective to the dish and it's taste.
If I spend all day cooking BIR I can't taste a dam thing from spice overdose, spices are a delicate and light effusion to dish.
Spice should never be overpowering but subtle and mysterious on the palate! This is why indian cooking is so difficult to pinpoint individual flavour.'
A simple thing like member under seasoning a dish can change the flavour and impact badly on a dish leading to a misrepresentation or unfair comment on a dish.
If anyone wants to be a judge then you have to follow the rules in order to pass judgement.
LC.
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Plus martinvic - what have my recipes got to do with mix powder?
It was a serious question George, as you seemed to be supporting/advocating not using mix powders to produce a higher quality BIR curry.
I was hoping you may have some recipes of these above average, amazing, superior flavoured curries, you may have mastered, to share.
Hopefully may take our BIR curry attempts to a whole new level?
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I think more people are susceptible to salt and sugar levels in their food than to the exact composition of their 'mix' powder.
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I think more people are susceptible to salt and sugar levels in their food than to the exact composition of their 'mix' powder.
Good point.....and if you add huge amounts of chilli, then the mix powder becomes almost totally irrelevant.
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.....and if you add huge amounts of chilli, then the mix powder becomes almost totally irrelevant.
Any scientific proof of that Garp?
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Mixed powder for me! CAs Abduls and CTs are my favourites
Ed
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.....and if you add huge amounts of chilli, then the mix powder becomes almost totally irrelevant.
Any scientific proof of that Garp?
Only empirical science, Andy. But if you have any evidence to add to the contrary, I will be happy to examine it :)
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.....and if you add huge amounts of chilli, then the mix powder becomes almost totally irrelevant.
If we can replace "mix powder" by "other spices", then I would expect exactly the opposite to be the case, if the curry is to be a balanced, pleasant, extremely hot dish rather than merely a source of limitless pleasure for gastronomic masochists. I have, on just two or three occasions, attempted to eat a curry where the quantity of chilli was out of all proportion to the other spices, and I have found that only two things help : (1) add salt. I don't know why, but adding salt can help to take the edge off a dish that is suffering from chilli overload. And (2) take the dish home and re-spice it, adding whatever appears to be missing when tasted holistically. So my personal belief is that if you are determined to add huge amounts of chilli, then it is even more important than usual to ensure that all the other spices (and the salt content) are in balance.
** Phil.
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My point was, Phil, that after a few mouthfuls of an extremely hot dish, which results in an overpowering burning sensation in one's mouth, it is difficult to detect minor differences, if any difference, in a mix powder.
That is only my experience so it's all I have to go on. I'm sure the real Chilli-Heads, CH, Andy, Lou (where did she go), etc will let me know if I'm wrong :)
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My point was, Phil, that after a few mouthfuls of an extremely hot dish, which results in an overpowering burning sensation in one's mouth, it is difficult to detect minor differences, if any difference, in a mix powder.
Agreed. But that (as Bayes would say) is the posterior position. In your original message, to which I was replying, you appeared to be addressing the prior position -- "If you add", rather than the posterior "If you have added". So (prior) "If you add [excessive amounts of chilli], then you need to be even more careful than usual about ensuring that the other spices are balanced and balance the chilli content", but (posterior) "If you have added [excessive amounts of chilli], then unless you have also ensured that the other spices are balanced and balance the chilli content, after after a few mouthfuls [...] it will be extremely difficult to detect minor differences, if any difference, in the mix powder used".
The defence rests.
** Phil.
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What mix powder does everybody use at the moment?
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So Stu.....does that answer your question?
Just trying to decipher all this... It's taking a little while!
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In answer to your original question, Stu; I didn't know there was a 'recommended' mix powder.
I never use commercial mix powders in my curries; no madras mix or anything like that. :)
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To get back on the original topic for a mo, I think its indicative of the prevalence of mix powders by their almost exclusive use in recipes posted on this forum. Not only that, but the majority of BIR related books/ebooks/websites use mix powders.
Add to this, the experience of those witnesses who have been lucky enough to work within a BIR restaurant or T/A. Without exception (I think!), all have spoken about the use of mix powders.
I use Abdul's 8-Spice for my day-to-day curries, while I make up spice mixes for out-of-the-ordinary curries etc. For traditional dishes, I just follow instructions which invariably involve the use of a number of single spices.
The only other exception, for me, is the use of spice pastes which, after all, tend just to be spice mixes with liquid added.
My tuppenceworth, Stu, :)
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Thread has now been pruned of all post non mix powder related and record archived of pruned content.
Back to mix powder :)
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What mix powder does everybody use at the moment?
Andy,
I use chewy's mix powder, I also use chewy's base and get results which I happy with.
London.
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Cheers London, I'm still using Abdul 8 spice but am considering a change.
Looking at maybe a more complex one, or maybe the opposite and as simple as can be
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I mainly use Zaal and occasionally Abdhul's for a bit of variation
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I use Zaal mix but prefer to keep the GM seperate. I also like to play around with traditional style curry powders (homemade) and ofter use them in BIR stuff. I also like to fiddle about with different blends of chilli powder/ paprika.
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To get back on the original topic for a mo, I think its indicative of the prevalence of mix powders by their almost exclusive use in recipes posted on this forum. Not only that, but the majority of BIR related books/ebooks/websites use mix powders.
Add to this, the experience of those witnesses who have been lucky enough to work within a BIR restaurant or T/A. Without exception (I think!), all have spoken about the use of mix powders.
I use Abdul's 8-Spice for my day-to-day curries, while I make up spice mixes for out-of-the-ordinary curries etc. For traditional dishes, I just follow instructions which invariably involve the use of a number of single spices.
The only other exception, for me, is the use of spice pastes which, after all, tend just to be spice mixes with liquid added.
My tuppenceworth, Stu, :)
Your tuppenceworth is appreciated - Cheers.
Out of interest, what's the difference between "mix" powder & "mixed" powder?
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I use Zaal mix but prefer to keep the GM seperate. I also like to play around with traditional style curry powders (homemade) and ofter use them in BIR stuff. I also like to fiddle about with different blends of chilli powder/ paprika.
I'm with you on this... "The freedom of the B.I.R. - can't beat it. Thanks for your input.
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One simple mix powder i always use is called Dhana Jeera (Dhanajiru Powder)
I always mix my own often grinding the the spices.
But i don't make a meal of it :-)
Thanks Graeme - going back to my days of cooking traditional currys, I always found these two to be the most important ingredients. If push came to shove, I reckon I could cook a basic curry using very little else and it would even be "edible" (maybe!) - it's good to learn that the B.I.R's aren't that far away from the traditional. Cheers
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So Stu.....does that answer your question?
Yeah... I'm there. Thanks for all input. I'm on the right track, it's personal choice.
Cheers
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Just to freak you all out, I cooked yesterday with "Schwartz Mild Curry Powder".... It was bangin... !
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Just to freak you all out, I cooked yesterday with "Schwartz Mild Curry Powder".... It was bangin... !
If you buy your Schwartz from a shop that has a high turnover of such things, I would suggest that you would consistently get better results from using it than from using the most carefully thought-out, tried and tested so-called "mix(ed) powder" that has been festering in your spice cupboard for a twelve-month ...
** Phil.
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Out of interest, what's the difference between "mix" powder & "mixed" powder?
"ed"
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...Your tuppenceworth is appreciated - Cheers.
Out of interest, what's the difference between "mix" powder & "mixed" powder?
For me, there's no difference at all - I tend to think of it as 'spice mix'. I think it's just down to personal usage of the term. :)
PS: Oops! I missed the post by SS above..."ed"
...what he said! :)
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Just to freak you all out, I cooked yesterday with "Schwartz Mild Curry Powder".... It was bangin... !
The first BIR curry I cooked I used Schwartz curry powder and was please with the results, maybe I should get some Schwartz and give it another go.
London.
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Real good subject and for me shows how we don't know enough.
Whether adding individual spice in place of mix will give best - i doubt. Time will tell.
Balti has taken me off my known beaten track. I won't put mix in base for the reason pointed out - for some reason its prone to chucking the final dish out of balance. Perhaps it's because the mix is wrong.
On balti have had 1 spice irritating me for some time. Thought it was cinnamon then turmeric only to find its cumin. I'm adding same chef masala to both base and dish fry. This i think causes the cumin to over power. I'm now thinking of adding spice individual to the base as I feel the chef masala is right.
I think any out of balance is in the base not the mix - I think soberat said earlier side by side of mix is very fine tuning.
I've chucked my rajah curry powder for mix out and replaced with east end - in short it's quite muddy water as everything has its effect. I thought wet finger tasting of curry powder was enough but it needs cooking to fully understand its taste.
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Good post JerryM, I don't use mix powder in base anymore only turmeric now. But I'm happy with the mix I'm using in curry but in small amounts only, I'm learning it's important for the background flavours to be able to come through.
I may add extra cumin or graham masala if I'm looking for that to come through.
Stu-pot I have never used that brand, must try it so I know the flavour and smell for comparison.
Thanks LC.
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No Mix Powder - No Bir style cooking - No debate. ;D ;D ;D
Present a BIR Chef a jar of Schwartz or any other housewives choice curry powder
and you would be laughed out of their kitchen...Numbnuts need not reply ::)
For the interested, "MIX powder" is a Bangladeshi kitchen term for exactly what it is.
the Chefs mix of spices, used in his kitchen/cooking. (Base Spices)
Just like "Garabi" is the term for the onion gravy. (Base)
The point being, they are specific kitchen terms for two clearly defined and identified items
used daily in BIR kitchens
I also posted a couple of years ago, when I spotted a forward thinking company (IBCO)
had brought out a ready mix, aimed at BIR.
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12365.msg99872.html#msg99872 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,12365.msg99872.html#msg99872)
It was OK, but I don't think it took off as BIR buy in 5kg bags of primary spices.
cheers Chewy
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I have started using Rajah and TRS curry powder in the mix powder that I knock up, as they both bring something that is subtly different.
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I'm using 3 turmeric, 3 mild madras, 1 coriander , 1 cumin , 1 paprika. this is spot on for my BIR taste, great in fried rice all round works for me.
LC
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"MIX powder" is a Bangladeshi kitchen term for exactly what it is.
the Chefs mix of spices, used in his kitchen/cooking.
You been on the sherry again chewy? ::)
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I'm using 3 turmeric, 3 mild madras, 1 coriander , 1 cumin , 1 paprika. this is spot on for my BIR taste, great in fried rice all round works for me.
LC
Ah, yes! BUT, what is the composition (or possibly brand) of the Mild Madras you are using? You are adding a mix powder to a mix powder. Any variation in the composition of the Mild Madras (curry powder) will change the overall composition of your finished mix powder.
This variation is probably / possibly insignificant, however a quick search for "Mild Madras" powder will certainly present a very large number of different ratio combinations all claiming to be Mild Madras.
Tarladalal has this to say "Madras Curry powder is misnomer. It is actually a pulverized blend of up to 20 spices, herbs and seeds. Among those most commonly used are cardamom, chiles, cinnamon, cloves, coriander, cumin, fennel seed, fenugreek, mace, nutmeg, red and black pepper, poppy and sesame seeds, saffron, tamarind and turmeric (the latter is what gives curried dishes their characteristic yellow color). "
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Fair point Livo, correction here, ;) I'm using (TRS) Mild Madras powder.
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Thanks for that clarification LC.
I'm a very messy obsessive compulsive, so I love being untidy about exact details. :o
One of the earliest posts I made on this site was in relation to the use of mix powders in mix powder recipes and the exact inaccuracy of doing so. I saw red, well probably yellow but anyway, I obsessed with trying to break these mixes down do individual spices in their respective scientifically measured ratios and quantities and quickly learned from investigation that I was trying to emulate the Hoo-hoo bird.
I thought that if I could nail "THE MIX POWDER" to the exact microgram, my curries would be divine. Errr, wrong. Some of my reading led me to think that these "secret chef's mix powders" were the missing link. Errr, wrong again.
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It took me a long time to work out its not the mix powder, but it's what you do with it that matters! This is the key for unlocking it's flavor.
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I think that is true. The mix powder is just one link in the chain. I tried a mix powder from the cook4one site which had a curry powder mix to go in the mix powder and I didn't find it made that much difference to my curries at the time. What has really changed the taste of my curries is the cooking techniques that I now use that I have learned from this site. I think that it's about technique, base and mix powder in that order. Obviously then it follows that a good recipe will help to get in the right area of taste that everyone is looking for.
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Just to freak you all out, I cooked yesterday with "Schwartz Mild Curry Powder".... It was bangin... !
The first BIR curry I cooked I used Schwartz curry powder and was please with the results, maybe I should get some Schwartz and give it another go.
London.
I reckon it's worth returning for another go, even if it's only to see how far away we've STRAYED and maybe even GOT LOST a little! - one other powder I know and used for years, plus I know two north Indian families use is Bolst Curry powder. Again like the Schwartz Im finding the "mild" powder is best.
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I'm finding that using a good quality curry powder that's 'mild' is giving me the freedom throughout the cook to put my own stamp on the finished product because it allows me the option to add Garam Masala or just a 'couple of spices' at the end to achieve my own personal taste without it being too 'heavy'. I've also discovered using a 'light, mild' mix powder also allows a little more of the flavour of the 'Masala sauce' to come thru without being too 'heavy'. There are also other flavours coming thru like 'cooked' green chilli and of course fresh Coriander etc... I think my point is that I'm starting to get very nice, clean flavours coming thru that are producing the WOW FACTOR with a slowish powerful chilli hit which I'm never quite sure will stop growing in strength until I can't wait any longer so I just have to stick another mouthful in... Yum....
At this stage I believe a 'mild power' without any strong traits being obvious is a major contributory factor to achieving a great curry giving the WOW FACTOR!
Thanks for all your input. My curries are improving!
Cheers
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There's no manufacturer information available, as far as I know, for the exact ratio of the spices used in the curry powders we use. But they all have in common that the biggest components are cumin, coriander and turmeric. The reason we use curry powder in our mix powders is really for the other spices in the packet. You could conceivably reproduce most of the curry powders by suitable combinations of cumin, coriander, turmeric and garam masala (which, of course, has many variations in itself).
Edit: the point I was trying to make is that because mix powders are generally a combination of curry powder, cumin, coriander, turmeric and, usually in smaller proportions garam masala and paprika, that the other minor spices in the curry powder are swamped which is why different mix powders tend to (unexpectedly) turn out similar end results.
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I agree in the most part with Phil. I can understand the argument that if mix powered has lots of various spices and in 1TBSP there could be a very small quantity of a particular spice and that could be difficult to repeat. I also think using a mix powder runs the risk of the curries being similar. As for replicating BIR, this can still be done without a mix powder (I might have to duck the angry mob). In fact I think the home cook has a few advantages... less time restraint, less money restraint etc. :)
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As for replicating BIR, this can still be done without a mix powder...
Yes, it can be done by mixing individual spice powders...oh, wait, that's a mix powder. ;D
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In fact I think the home cook has a few advantages... less time restraint, less money restraint etc. :)
[/quote]
Yes I totally agree and I believe that's why we can sometimes cook a curry that blows the socks off the average BIR & even equals some of best BIR's we've visited! 8)
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Has anyone tried the following:
Made 3 identical curries using same ingredients, technique etc but with one difference : the mixed powder?
Was there a noticeable difference ?
Stu-pot
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Has anyone tried the following: Made 3 identical curries using same ingredients, technique etc but with one difference : the mixed powder? If so, was there a noticeable difference ?
No, I've not tried it (because I don't use mixed powder) but I cannot see how it could fail to make a difference, unless the changes in the proportions or in the spices used was so small that they cannot be detected by the human organs of taste. To test this for yourself, and to save you the need to make three different mix powders, why not try the following :
Curry A, with base & turmeric
Curry B, with base & cumin
Curry C, with base & fenugreek
They will, I suspect, all taste completely different. You may argue that this is an artificial situation, and that no three mixed powders could differ so much; I will argue in return that they simply represent the limit of variation, and by testing at that limit you can immediately see what a change of mixed powder might accomplish.
** Phil.
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Different mix powders different taste, there is a big difference, some good some bad!
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So what is the major difference between a TA shops simple chef's mix of say 5 or 6 of the major spices (maybe 10) and a more complex mix like Kitchen King in one of it's multiple disguises? Is too much emphasis put into the wrong area? Does the miniscule amount of fringe spice really contribute to the dish or is it more to do with overall technique and getting the most out of what you have?
I recently learnt a lot from a person I met and spent a week with in close quarters, who is Fijian Indian or Indian Fijian. His use of spices was limited to the very basics and not even fresh garlic or ginger but powders. No Ajwain or Kalonji or Caraway. The taste of the food he prepared was sensational and I put it down to his ability to cook with the 3 or 4 basic spices and release the flavours.
Cumin, Coriander, Tumeric and Chilli. Get it right and your 9/10 done.
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I put it down to his ability to cook with the 3 or 4 basic spices and release the flavours.
Cumin, Coriander, Tumeric and Chilli. Get it right and your 9/10 done.
I would add Garam Masala to that list, IMO, and that really is all you need to make a decent curry, again IMO, ;D
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Cumin, Coriander, Turmeric and Chilli. Get it right and you're 9/10 done.
My gut feeling is that the above is 100% accurate. But aloo tikki without ajwain is unthinkable !
** Phil.
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Firstly to Les, Yes, GM has an important role in curry but I was shown that it is not essential and with so many variations, the end result will be a varied one anyway. It is a flourish for the diner.
Phil, You have now forced my hand into the preparation of 2 aloo tikki dishes. But that's a good thing because I've been wondering what to do with my Ajwain
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Firstly to Les, Yes, GM has an important role in curry but I was shown that it is not essential and with so many variations, the end result will be a varied one anyway. It is a flourish for the diner.
These five spices are the only spices that I use anyway, Mainly because I cook traditional and not BIR, But you are right, GM is not an essential.
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It seems we are all in agreement here: To make a good traditional curry all you need is; Cumin, Coriander, Turmeric, Chilli, Methi and maybe Paprika & Garam Masala.
But what I'm looking for are different sets of mixed powders to use for different dishes to stop them all tasting roughly the same or simular.
I'm left handed so if I make a curry using my right hand, maybe it'll taste like someone else made it?
I tried this when I was 14 and it worked but I wasn't holding a spatula !
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I tried this when I was 14 and it worked but I wasn't holding a spatula !
;D ;D
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Well with an imagination like yours, you'll be fine. Just wait till your my age and you have bilateral Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
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It seems we are all in agreement here: To make a good traditional curry all you need is; Cumin, Coriander, Turmeric, Chilli, Methi and maybe Paprika & Garam Masala.
I would challenge paprika -- according to all the sources that I have consulted [1], paprika is unknown in India but is occasionally used as a synonym for deggi mirch. Therefore I would rule out (Hungarian) paprika, but allow deggi mirch since the latter is really just a specific form of chillies.
[1] Apart, of course, from Kris Dhillon, who uses it in her KD1 base, which I take either as a tacit assertion by her that paprika /is/ known in India after all, or simply that she was brought up to use the word to describe deggi mirch. For my next batch of KD1 base I shall try deggi mirch to see if I can detect any difference in the final curry (I would expect to detect extra heat).
I'm left handed so if I make a curry using my right hand, maybe it'll taste like someone else made it? I tried this when I was 14 and it worked but I wasn't holding a spatula !
:) :) :) :) :)
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Phil, there is a considerable difference between my sweet paprika and my deggi mirch powders, in terms of heat. While it has been claimed that deggi mirch is mainly used for colour, I find it has nearly as much chilli heat as my red chili powder.
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Phil, there is a considerable difference between my sweet paprika and my deggi March powders, in terms of heat. While it has been claimed that deggi mirch is mainly used for colour, I find it HSS nearly as much chilli heat ad my red chili powder
I complete agree, Livo; I was just reporting what I had read. It doesn't gell with my experience or with yours, but we would need someone to go to India, ask for "paprika", and then report what they get ...
** Phil.
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I see what you meant now.
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Or just search for a forum with Indian cooks. :)
http://www.mamtaskitchen.com/board/showthread.php?thread_id=6256 (http://www.mamtaskitchen.com/board/showthread.php?thread_id=6256)
Gourmet India is another good one.
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Hi
I find myself just returning to the above five, as for Paprika. This I find a useful reference, http://gernot-katzers-spice-pages.com/engl/Caps_ann.html (http://gernot-katzers-spice-pages.com/engl/Caps_ann.html)
Regards
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Well that was a brilliant read Commis - thanks.
An important part I took from it is as follows:
"Since paprika contains significant amounts of sugar, it must not be overheated, as the sugar will quickly turn bitter. Frying paprika powder in hot oil is therefore a critical procedure that must last no longer than a couple of seconds"
I will never add Paprika to my spices and fry with Onion and G&G again.
Cheers
Stu-pot
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Paprika is a big part of my BIR cooking, it's also my go to substitute for chilli powder! It's a key part in my mix powder and I have used it extensively in my dishes.
I favour bog standard sweet paprika, no BIR would be paying top dollar to import expensive paprika.
I've never had any issue starting dishes in hot oil or frying my spice!
LC.
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LC. Oh wow... That's thrown a spanner in the works!!!
I will take this on board and continue my investigation.
Many thanks
Stu-pot
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When I see paprika in recipe (unspecified) I always think, which one? Sweet, Hungarian, smoked.
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Isn't the paprika used in Indian food not sweet, smoked or hungarian but the variety used and now grown in India (sure somewhere I read it was neither of the 3 above), thats how I understood it and hence will only use 'India' paprika
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I read a recipe yesterday that used Paprika (mild Chili powder). The link to Garnet Katie's Page says it all.