Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on December 02, 2014, 11:55 PM
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If you have no interest in burners then not worth reading on.
As we know a very emotive subject. Do I care certainly not.
I do know my good friend rsholme123 despite knowing my product is not a fan.
What this shows is that we clearly have different needs. I see it as what we were brought up on.
Intro over. What's there to learn.
Had the opportunity to cook on another members burner with my own pan.
First impressions were the burner looked good - more than enough heat ~7.5kw.
I'm no expert. I just know I'm not looking to change what I have.
Something just did not feel right but could not put finger on it.
Eventually dawned - the height or gap between burner and pan bottom was quite a lot. In nutshell The flames did not wrap the pan rim.
I suspect as a result the pan outside temp was not getting hot enough. From memory for me 230c.
In short the learning for me - the amount of heat is not the end game. The burner setup is more complicated than would be initially thought.
Just for info - did the burner produce BIR. No question Yes. It's just a question weather you are happy with the yes produced. If not reduce that gap somehow so the flame wraps the pan.
Ps for info flame was Bunsen burner blue and I now discount the flame colour/profile as Important
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Hi Jerry, we must stop these midnight encounters ;)
Can I just correct you about burners... I am most definitely a fan of them. If my kitchen could cope with a gas burner without burning the house down, I would buy one immediately. Sadly I don't have a garage/shed to use, and I know one wouldn't work well in the yard/garden because of wind.
Having been in your furnace (oops meant garage) and experienced the extra flavour/smell that your burner gives, I'm a believer in that it can add importantly to most curries. Thinking back, that garlic curry you cooked was amazing.
So, in the absence of a burner, will have to carry on with 3kwh gas ring and a few shortcuts.
Regarding the burner flame/height issue... I would imagine that given the wise suggestion on adjustment to the members Burner, it would allow more BIR flavour to be created, but at the expense of the members kitchen in which it was cooked.
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Rsholme123,
Clearly an anorak subject
Agee on the downsides. Ive been banned from cooking curry or pizza in my kitchen for those kind of reasons.
Even the tarva.
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I'm in the market for a new gas cooker. I'm not hugely farmiliar with output and how industrial burners differ from domestic. But, can you get domestic cookers that perform like the ones BIRs use?
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I'm in the market for a new gas cooker. I'm not hugely farmiliar with output and how industrial burners differ from domestic. But, can you get domestic cookers that perform like the ones BIRs use?
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Sorry dunno how I managed to do that! Was going to say Jerry presuming the 7.5kwh burner you speak of was not a domestic one?
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MushroomMike,
I can't imagine a domestic burner equivalent to BIR. The real problem is the need for extract and even a 150 dia domestic wont do it.
From the recent experience it's not just amount of heat but the closeness of the pan to it.
It also critically depends on your own mindset. I think very few members have burners and from this experience few are getting optimum results.
The pan is also important as Ali has limitations at heat - the surface sticks too much.
In short a shed or garage is needed and more heat than a domestic wok burner.
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Felt i needed to measure the flame gap - distance from top of burner (flame outlet) to bottom of pan on my burner = 24 mm
Out of interest also measured same on my domestic hob = 18 mm
The thing that struck from this is the diameter of the burner outlet must also be important - flames dont wrap pans on domestic Hob's
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I've got a huge propane bitumen burner in the shed that felt roofers use. I'm tempted...:-)
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MushroomMike,
Tempted. For me I would defo give it ago. I started using a wok directly over the burner of my gas BBQ. It was 1st I'd ever got flame. Parker21 had told me to get a camping stove and the BBQ was what I had readily to hand.
I do think we are all searching for different gaps. The burner was important to me in closing mine. It may not for everyone.
Another way of getting an inkling of the effect is to use a cast iron korahi - like in the Nottingham mogal e Azam video when he does a garlic tarka.
I did not get chance to perfect the method. This is what I did. Cook a curry on slow heat on domestic hob. Heat karahi till 300c (actually quite easy) and turn heat off, add 1 tbsp veg oil and chopped garli (like mogal) then pour the cooked curry slowly into it.
It's real scary till you get used to it.
The effect is a lot bubbling curry. It also produces smoke and that is the differentiator.
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I might give it a go if I can fashion some sort of tripod to sit the pan on. I've always been intrigued by how Chinese takeaways achieve "wok hei" by the fierce heat their burners throw out. The other week I was making a bhuna and left the oil on the heat too long. When I added the slightly watered down g&g the lot caught fire. The result was a curry with that smokey Chinese takeaway taste. I'm convinced high heat if not flaming is partly responsible for the flavour of Chinese and BIR. I think it's all down to the Maillard reaction.
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MushroomMike,
May or may not help. I only see a difference after the base has gone in.
Not saying the spice fry is not important but the low volume of water in the pan during the before base stages is low so that a domestic hob can hit the maillard no trouble.
It's after (as it goes in) the base when the heat is needed. The karahi is a perfect example I can hit 300c on a domestic hob no trouble when it's empty - add some water ie base and no chance.
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No offence intended to Jerry, but this thread is total bollocks.
I, and many others, can produce BIR/TA-quality dishes without the need to have commercial burners/flames licking over the sides of the pan etc etc.
In my humble opinion, with all due respect, you, Jerry, seem to analyse things too much (see Balti thread) and come to conclusions which, to be honest , have no evidence to support them.
:)
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Garp,
I tried to put you or anyone with the same mindset off at the start of the thread.
As you are happy with what you produce then you don't need any help from me.
I am sort of in a similar boat - I don't need any help. What I mean by this is that I'm very happy with what I produce. Yes I'd like to understand the why and that is a tedious business.
In short all this post is saying is - if you've purchased a burner just having high heat is not enough. Other factors have just as important contributions to make.
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I really enjoy the analytical approach. 8) Horses for courses. :)
When is the next Group Test?
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Heston Blumenthal makes a living out of analysing to death food then re-engineering its manufacture in a new different tasting manner - whilst retaining a lot of the basic flavour
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Myth no1
It's important to me that I make sure I'm clear on this and add clarification.
This is about Caramelisation (per curry2go "roasting") and smokiness (per CA). You can certainly get the 1st with low heat you won't get the latter.
Whether that's important is down to the individual. Not just on their taste buds but on the balance of effort v rewards.
In short I thought high heat alone was enough. I now know it ain't.
For those with interest this is my current thinking:
1) heat typ 7 to 9 (6 might be ok, 7 to 9 is what I've seen)
2) gap burner to pan bottom typ 25 mm
3) burner to pan diameter ratio typ 45% (90 mm burner dia, pan bottom rim dia 200 mm )
4) black steel pan. Dump the Ali pan for this it won't do the job
5) maintain typ 230C rim temp after spice frying ie throughout the base addition
6) there needs to be enough oil
This was not written at the beginning of April. The journey was inspired by Parker21 and Did not disappoint.
I'm at journey end on this. The info being just for those who are interested.