Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: livo on September 18, 2014, 12:56 AM
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I've named this topic to assist others who have experienced the same problem as me, ie; finding a useful and informative discussion about pre-cooked meats in general, but specifically chicken. I don't claim this to be my own work as I have used the work of others to reach this point. Credit D. Toombs and some guy I can't find again.
edit: Here it is. http://www.indianrestaurantcooking.com/2013/10/27/how-to-cook-pre-cook-chicken/ (http://www.indianrestaurantcooking.com/2013/10/27/how-to-cook-pre-cook-chicken/)
In a different place I was told to just boil it in some water with a bit of base gravy thrown in. Not very helpful and it turned out just how you'd expect. Dull and flavourless. It wouldn't take on the flavours of the dish when used and it was a real waste of good chicken.
Doing some research the other day led me to some interesting video demonstrations from which I took notes on my observations. There seems to be a divide over cooking in oil or water. Having tried water and being disappointed I was curious to see the oil method. I was surprised by one technique that really cooked the chicken for a long time and in spiced oil, but it was something to think about and I noted the ingredients used.
I then came across another method that used both oil and water and the end result looked really promising. There were several similarities to the all oil version in technique and ingredients along with obvious differences.
Being adventurous yesterday I made up something in between the two and even if I do say so myself, it turned out pretty damn good. So here you go. Livo's hybrid pre-cooked chicken. I'll be glad to receive your feedback and tips to improvement.
Common ingredients between the 2 original methods.
1 kg of diced chicken pieces. (I prefer large pieces of about 40 g each and you can cut smaller later)
Vegetable oil (all oil method used 1 cup and oil / water method used 3 Tbsp)
Green Cardamom pods ( oil method used 10, oil / water used 5)
Cassia Bark / Cinnamon (2" vs 1")
Asian Bay leaf (2 or 3) The size I have is huge so hard to say how many but I'd only use 1 of mine or less.
Salt (oil says 2 tsp and oil / water doesn't specify an amount.)
Tomatoes (oil says 6 tinned pealed, oil / water doesn't list them but tells to add in method.)
Ingredients listed only in the Oil method.
Star Anise 1 whole piece
Mix Powder 2 Tbsp
Garlic / Ginger Paste 2 Tbsp.
Ingredients listed only in the Oil / Water method.
Onions 2 lge finely chopped.
Black Peppercorns 10
Cumin Seeds 1 tsp
Tumeric 1 tsp.
So that is the list of ingredients from both methods. Yesterday I used the Oil / Water technique but left out some of the ingredients and simplified it down to the basic commonly held ones.
For 300g of chicken I used:
1/2 an onion finely diced.
1 Tbsp of Tomato Puree.
1 tsp of Garlic / Ginger paste.
1 Green Cardamom Pod split open / crushed.
Tiny stick of Cassia Bark (approx. 1" by 1/4 ")
4 Black Peppercorns.
Pinch of Cumin Seeds.
1 Curry Leaf (I used this instead of Bay Leaf as it was in the ingredients list I was using).
1/4 tsp Mix Powder
1/4 tsp Tumeric
1/2 tsp Salt
1 Tbsp Oil.
Method.
Heat oil and add whole spices and leaf.
Add chopped onions and cook out, stirring. ( I did about 5 minutes)
Add Garlic / Ginger paste and a bit of salt, stirring.
Add Tomato, Tumeric and Mix Powder and cook briefly stirring.
Add the chicken pieces and stir thoroughly to coat well in seasoned onion / tomato mix.
Add enough water to just cover the chicken pieces and bring to heat.
Cover and cook for time required by your chicken size.
Remove from heat and cool.
I stored this in a dish with the cooking liquid but I guess you could drain it. It was good enough to just eat it as it was, sort of like a chunky chicken broth Indian style.
No doubt you could use or omit any of these ingredients for slightly different results, but this worked well for me.
Please add you comments to improve, criticise, correct or take the P, as you see fit.
Cheers
Livo
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Hi livo. The recipe in your link is from the Viceroy Brasserie restaurant Abbots Langley. I use very similar with the following modifications. Increase fresh chicken to 1 kg. Reduce oil to about half a cup (tea cup). Leave out the star anise. The initial garlic/ginger spice fry stage (bagar) is the tricky bit. I usually quench this with a little blended onion/green pepper (in cold water). The recipe/technique needs a little practice as it
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Livo
Some good info there I like to keep things simple and easy
I tablespoon gg paste in pan heat do not burn add chicken and coat well add 2 tablespoons curry base cook till just cooked job done
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NOx, I also cook my chicken till just cooked and tender! I find like this when added to curry they melt in your mouth :)
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Well done Livo. I like your clear, analytical, well-presented approach.
** Phil.
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In a previous life I was a secondary school Industrial Arts, IT and Software Development teacher. Also dabbled into Engineering Science, Physics, Chemistry and of course Mathematics.
I'm now just a cranky old man, which I much prefer.
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NOx, I also cook my chicken till just cooked and tender! I find like this when added to curry they melt in your mouth :)
I watched one video where the guy barely cooked it at all. It would have been still raw 75% through so a lot of cooking to do afterwards in the final dish. Then in the Viceroy Brasserie video cooked it in oil on low gas for 20 minutes.
There are so many ways to do this that it sometimes makes my head spin. I was never an artist but more a technical drawing type. Crooked lines and approximations frustrate the crapola out of anal retentive obsessive compulsives like me. :o My psych councillor just loves me reading forums like this. Keeps her in employment.
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I'm now just a cranky old man, which I much prefer.
Welcome to the Club !
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I watched one video where the guy barely cooked it at all. It would have been still raw 75% through so a lot of cooking to do afterwards in the final dish. Then in the Viceroy Brasserie video cooked it in oil on low gas for 20 minutes.
There are so many ways to do this that it sometimes makes my head spin. I was never an artist but more a technical drawing type. Crooked lines and approximations frustrate the crapola out of anal retentive obsessive compulsives like me. :o My psych councillor just loves me reading forums like this. Keeps her in employment.
:) Don't be surprised to find a few trying to work in tenths of a picolitre on here livo.
Regards
ELW
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PS Never understood why Dan Toombs includes peppercorns in his pre-cooked chicken. :)
I'm not a fan of Dan Toombs and from seeing some of his videos have no intention of ever reading his books.
But...
black pepper is the most underated spice on this forum. ;)
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black pepper is the most underated spice on this forum. ;)
Must agree with that Tellicherry is the best by miles ;D
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Nice work livo, recently I have added g/g a few whole spices to oil, then added chicken and a little base sauce, works well, but I am always open to any improvements that can be made to the final dish.
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black pepper is the most underated spice on this forum. ;)
Indeed Frank, although I've yet to see peppercorns used in BIR pre-cooked chicken. Guess korma fans for example wouldn't be expecting to chomp on too many. I think green cardo, cassia and tej patha are pretty much essential for me though; and from what I've seen quite a few Bangladeshi chefs. Green cardo/mace (powder) also works nicely, although usually reserved for pre-cooked red meats.
Rob :)
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black pepper is the most underated spice on this forum. ;)
Guess korma fans for example wouldn't be expecting to chomp on too many.
Or a cardamom and a piece of cassia for that matter.
Green cardo/mace (powder) also works nicely
I see Moti Mahal uses that simple masala too. 8)
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Was thinking the peppercorns being small might find their way into curries unseen Frank, whereas cassia shards and swollen cardos etc. are fairly obvious and can be fished out. Who knows though, Dan the man must have got the recipe from somewhere. Still follow his stuff, but a lot of his BIR recipes seem pretty janky, to me anyway. I do enjoy reading his restaurant reviews though.
The green cardo/mace is an awesome combo. One or two of the quality restaurants near me use it, and apparently the Cinnamon Club do as well.
Rob :)
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PS Never understood why Dan Toombs includes peppercorns in his pre-cooked chicken. :)
I'm not a fan of Dan Toombs and from seeing some of his videos have no intention of ever reading his books.
But...
black pepper is the most underated spice on this forum. ;)
S Never understood why Dan Toombs includes peppercorns in his pre-cooked chicken. :)
black pepper is the most underated spice on this forum. ;)
Agreed, a few places I know use it in many dishes. Its great in a vindaloo or karahi. Little bit in the tikka / tandoori or Punjabi masala.
We need more restaurant recipes & methods on here, that's the trouble.
Regards
ELW
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Maybe he adds peppercorns out of habit Rob from making basic (non curry) stocks?
I try to count whole spice in and out but guaranteed it'll be me that bites down on a green cardamom when one goes missing. >:(
They're not always that easy to find unless you're using those extra large ones I spotted recently?
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This is very informative dialog. Exactly what I was hoping for in starting the thread. It has now already provided me with so much to work with and test out. Already there is healthy discussion on Black Pepper and I would like to know why Star Anise is omitted by BB. Is it just a flavour you don't like or is there something more scientific? I love black jelly beans, liquorice and Ouzo. I make my own of the latter and it uses the same spices used in cooking curries, but that's a different forum.
I've already started looking at pre-cooked lamb as well. I've used the pressure cooker in the past and it does a great job on tenderising lamb.
I'm going to have to get another fridge and put a sign out the front of my house for "Free Curry". My family are wanting to eat a dull old piece of barbequed prime Sirloin Steak with steamed plain vegetables and potato chips for dinner tonight. I've been told in no uncertain terms, "Not Curry".