Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Talk About Anything Other Than Curry => Topic started by: JerryM on August 11, 2014, 05:53 PM
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Tender lamb joint - what's best method
I slow cook lamb quite often which turns out pretty good (foil covered watered roasting tin 4 hrs 140C)
Recently had similar out but another step up.
Question is how.
Only observation being that the restaurant version looked well cooked on the outside amost blackened. The meat inside was tender and moist.
Whatever caused the blackening seemed to add the difference
Any thoughts on how to make this step up appreciated.
Ps for info pots were salad halved, boiled and cooled then wok fried in a little oil till browned adding chilli flakes, salt, garlic and a herb late on (parsley, I'm using marjoram)
Steamed carrot in butter and this all adds up to delicious
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No answers here, Jerry, but also interested. I've gone of chicken a little and find lovely tender lamb more appealing (ordered lamb from takeaway tonight btw).
Looking forward to advice :)
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Garp, come on pal. I already told ya...cook for longer! ;D
Seriously what's the beef (or lamb) here? Long, slow and low makes juicy and tender.
My own precooked lamb cooks for about one and a half hours to two hours (depends on the cut). It's then tender but still has some substance. If you want baby food cook for longer.
I'm not sure what Jerry wants here...he is cooking a whole leg? Not the way the BIR does it unless we're talking Raan.
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Hi
JM do you remove the foil from your lamb joint at the end or start it then add the foil.
Regards
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Garp, come on pal. I already told ya...cook for longer! ;D
Seriously what's the beef (or lamb) here? Long, slow and low makes juicy and tender.
My own precooked lamb cooks for about one and a half hours to two hours (depends on the cut). It's then tender but still has some substance. If you want baby food cook for longer.
Lol ok SS, remind me.....I'm getting chunks of diced lamb from butcher - what now?
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Jerry I would season the joint with a rub of olive oil, sea salt and black pepper then quickly caramelise the meat well in a very hot pan prior to oven cooking. Try removing the foil and turning the oven up to full blast 10 minutes before the end of cooking time to darken and crisp up the already caramelised outer.
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Did that reply twice! Must get used to this posting lark! :)
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Lol ok SS, remind me.....I'm getting chunks of diced lamb from butcher - what now?
this is Alex's Glasgow precooked lamb:
Pre Cooked Lamb
2 POUND LAMB
3 BIG ONIONS
1 TSP CUMIN SEEDS
4 CLOVES
1/2 CINNAMON STICK
1 TBL SPOON GARLIC GINGER PASTE
1 TBL SPOON T/PUREE
1 TBL HALDI..TURMERIC
1 TSP CORIANDER PDR
1 TSP GREEN CHILLI PASTE
1 TBL SUGAR
1 TSP SALT
1 CUP VEGETABLE OIL
METHOD
STEP 1.. ADD LAMB TO POT AND COVER WITH WATER TURN ON GAS
STEP 2...ADD REST OF INGREDIENTS AND COOK FOR ABOUT HOUR HALF OR UNTIL LAMB IS TENDER
DONE
TO BE USED WITH GLASGOW BASE SAUCE OR YOUR OWN DESIRED BASE SAUCE
One and a half hour cook is almost spot on...deeelish.
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Thanks SS 8)
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I can't get my head around the Glasgow pre-cooks.
Rob :)
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Well give us yours Rob :)
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I can't get my head around the Glasgow pre-cooks.
Rob :)
Seriously? In what way? Pre-cooked chicken, lamb etc. is a prerequisite of BIR cooking.
Just avoid parboiling in turmeric...not good.
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Jerry
I once cooked a leg of lamb tandoor. I stuck 3 skewers through the leg so it stood up inside the tandoor like a tripod. I marinated it first. It was a bit of an expensive disaster. I seriously misjudged the cooking time and incinerated it. It was a long time ago now, and cant for the life of me remember how long I left it cooking for, but it wasn't long at all. Maybe 30 minutes or so? At the time I didn't even think about the dripping fat igniting as well...
If I had got it right though, it would definitely have been black on the outside but tender on the inside. It would also have skewer holes running through it too of course that I would imagine you would have seen in your meal out.
Just a thought
Regards
Mick
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Just avoid parboiling in turmeric...not good.
made this mistake myself along while ago, nothing like the real thing when it comes to pre-cooking meat... ;)
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I can't get my head around the Glasgow pre-cooks.
Rob :)
Seriously? In what way? Pre-cooked chicken, lamb etc. is a prerequisite of BIR cooking.
Just avoid parboiling in turmeric...not good.
I'm not dismissing the recipe, just don't follow it. So, it's basically pile everything into a pan and cook until the meat is tender. Where's the fun in that?
Rob :)
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Repeating myself now. How would you do it?
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Sorry Garp. Though I'd mentioned in the past; perhaps I haven't. I pre-cook lamb similarly to the Ifindforu recipe(s). Couple of differences. The initial fry stage (bagar) is quenched with onion/green pepper blended in water. These days I always use mutton/lamb on-the-bone for BIR curries (just de-bone it prior to pan cook). One of the following is also a must, for me. Green cardamom, black cardamon, or green cardamom/mace. I would also say that half a cup of oil is adequate for 1 kg of pre-cooked meat, when you know what you are doing, less.
Rob :)
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Thanks, I'll go and search for that one now.....
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Also worth checking over the Viceroy pre-cooked chicken video. Essentially the same thing; just needs adapting for other meats; whole spices used/time until just tender. The Viceroy video is excellent showing the bagar. However, one reason why such footage is rarely seen is that most of it is done with the lid-on. Worth thinking about that one. Also, similar for pre-cooked veg, again with adaptation of the spicing etc. I suppose it might seem pointless using a technique to extract flavour from spices quickly (bagar) for lamb that is going to be slow cooked. But is 1 1/2 - 2 hrs for red meat really slow cooking? Nope, imo.
Rob :)
Also thinking raan for Jerry. Sure Chewy has posted a nice recipe somewhere.
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So, it's basically pile everything into a pan and cook until the meat is tender. Where's the fun in that?
The fun's in the eating of course! :D
It works so why not?
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Sorry for confusion - no interest at mo on the curry offering
Interest is in whole joints ie leg or for me shoulder with minimal seasoning.
This is english cooking at it's best.
I currently keep the foil on for the whole time ie 4 to 5 hrs. I've even tried 6 hrs. The 4 hrs seems optimum.
Not sure on what depth of liquid. Currently add not a lot say half inch or 1/4 cover and top up if needed. Should this be higher say 3/4 cover.
Some real good help (commis, naga, mickdabass) Not sure which will deliver and think I will need to try all out.
I think I've read the options as:
1) leave the foil off towards end of cooking and turn up heat from the 140 to max say 220c for ~10 mins
2) pan fry before putting in the oven (then quickly caramelise)
3) use additional spicing to help the darkening ie oil, sea salt, black pepper
4) the tandoor or maybe smoking is my biggest nightmare as I don't have facilities. I did not sense a smoke taste but never tasted smoked meat. I don't think tandoor would give the tenderness unless heat turned low which certainly could work ie produce the blackness
I think these suggestions might well do it. The problem I saw is that the natural instinct is to colour at the end but the meat falls apart at this stage and can't really be handled.
Ps raan sounds good for me but under instruction from the family on this one.
Much appreciate the help
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So, it's basically pile everything into a pan and cook until the meat is tender. Where's the fun in that?
The fun's in the eating of course! :D
It works so why not?
Fair point. I may be missing out.
Rob :D
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Wrap in tin foil + some liquid then low and slow
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Wrap in tin foil + some liquid then low and slow
DO,
are you thinking of a "parcel" being better than foil over a roasting tin. i've seen this done in Greece but not tried at home (it was aimed at adding the whole finished dish to the parcel). i dont really see any benefit other than having to keep eye "feel" (tipping off level slightly) on the liquid level in the roasting tin.
low and slow for me is 140C for 4 to 5 hrs. is this low and long enough. i know smoking can be typ 16 hrs.
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Hi
JM. Do you use an instant read thermometer ?
If so it may be worth roasting till the temp is just there then up the temp off with the foil and crisp away.
Regards
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Wrap in tin foil + some liquid then low and slow
DO,
are you thinking of a "parcel" being better than foil over a roasting tin. i've seen this done in Greece but not tried at home (it was aimed at adding the whole finished dish to the parcel). i dont really see any benefit other than having to keep eye "feel" (tipping off level slightly) on the liquid level in the roasting tin.
low and slow for me is 140C for 4 to 5 hrs. is this low and long enough. i know smoking can be typ 16 hrs.
JM, you're right about the greek thing- think they do Kleftiko that way- although sometimes a brown paper parcel rather tham foil. Which is incidentally THE best way of re-heating kebabs or naans (w/ a drop of water) the next day :)
This is a great recipe- ironically doing it in the roasting pan! (So don't think it's a major difference.)
Yeah right about the liquid. And yes the temp & time!
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Commis,
Hope u well sir and curry even better. Don't get south as much these days and do miss my fav place (near the signal2 place)
Instant read is not good for me. Must admit to having. Tried using on BBQ (976bar piri). On BBQ not good as the heat distorts the reading.
Given your prompt Might just be worth using it on a 1 off as a bit of a guide.
Double onion-appreciate clarification. At back of my mind was maybe to try to replicate a smoke in water. Peas thinking say 100c for say 10 hrs.
Does anyone know of the science that we are aiming at. Clearly mailliard is the last bit.
Ps kleftico is what I had considered too
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Jerry, I was Googling around for ribs recipes and in the comments section for one I found this..."whilst very low temperature (60-65C for 8-14 hours), slow-roasted leg of lamb can be to die for."
Don't know if that's what you're after but it makes sense to me.
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14 hours ??? Let's hope you don't Die of hunger Jerry ;D ;) :)
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Pop out for a (lamb!) donner in the meantime... ;)
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That's Shear Genius 8) ;D ;)
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very low temperature (60-65C for 8-14 hours)
Secret Santa,
me too. reason been quite - i'm finding quite a few leads. one was to work out what "low" means. thankyou. several had said low gas light but it needs to be a temp.
the 8 hrs is too short - i'm currently thinking min of 10.
ps Kuzu tandir was my starting point.
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Hi Jerry, been a while, hope you are well. :)
Best way I find to get the results you are looking for is to sear the meat in a hot pan before slowly roasting. Your basically giving the maillard reaction a good head start.
The other way is to cook it in a low oven for a long period, uncovered. I remember a friends mum would serve up the most incredible roasted joints, that she would cook in the Aga all day. You should have seen the crackling this women was able to create!
A low oven to me is around 130c this link might help you:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Oven_temperatures (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Oven_temperatures)
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Malc,
Appreciate post. Will read up link.
Am well but having a nightmare year trying out too many wish list items and not closing out well.
I'm on the 2 methods and going to have to try both. I've also not ruled out a pit if my time frees up.
Best wishes and pleased your return
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There's sort of good and bad news on this.
Good news is im pretty much sorted for now. I used the various suggestions and feel I won't get it much better. I liked malcs 130c and cooked for 6 hrs covered.
Recipe:
Pan on full 3kw heat with a little veg oil till smoking
Mailliard for 5 mins skin down
Put bed sliced onion in tin
Put lamb in tin and pour oil from pan over
Add 1 tsp rosemary
1 tsp black pepper
Sea salt (me 3 turns)
1 tbsp crushed/blended euro bay
1 tbsp lime juice
1 tbsp garlic pur?e
Cover water 1/4 height (500 ml)
Cover with foil
Slow bake 130C 6 hrs
Will add photo when next on desktop.
Going fwd will put lamb in plastic bag with rest ingredients over night - might add more taste not sure.
Real bad news is that am now convinced the real stuff was done over fire. Going to try my gas BBQ next. The boss is currently resisting a pit which is no brainer for me.
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Have you tried cutting slivers of garlic and then inserting them into cuts in the lamb joint?
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Have you tried cutting slivers of garlic and then inserting them into cuts in the lamb joint?
Ah, /Kleftiko/ : wonderful ! (Or /h?rs?zlar/, for fried !)
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I hope thats not Greek Phil, this is my missus' recipe and she's Turkish!
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Fried,
Yes albeit a good while ago. It is very nice. I got onto cooking the lamb in hoi sin (copy cat crispy duck) and got hooked on it. Recently started doing the lamb shoulder for roast (same method no hoi sin).
The blackened lamb seems a sort of best of both worlds - the taste of lamb in its own right but with a subtle flavouring around the edges. I'm thinking pit on the qt if the overnight marinade/gas BBQ is not a breakthrough.
Best wishes
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I hope that's not Greek Phil, this is my missus' recipe and she's Turkish!
Now it's time you two naughty children (the Greeks and the Turks, that is) kissed and made up. Cyprus is quite large enough for both of you -- all you have to do is divide it nicely (no more tantrums, no more /enosis/) and live happily ever after. If you don't, you will both be locked in your bedrooms with bread and water, and you won't be allowed out again until you promise to be friends.
** Phil.
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Deleted : posted in error.
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Pics from earlier post
start:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/283740b6f1f6ece643fcbbdf0e48b236.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#283740b6f1f6ece643fcbbdf0e48b236.jpg)
finish:
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/62c62f4c5f735b646a5365c21408f610.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#62c62f4c5f735b646a5365c21408f610.jpg)
got a rev2 in the bag marinading for saturday. changed the herb to marjoram and oregano being my 2 fav's
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Long and slow for lamb definitely. I cook shoulders and legs at 120'C for a minimum of 7 hours but preferably 8. In the oven at 10.00am, and definitely no later than 11.00am, to have it cooked by 6.00pm.
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livo,
many thanks for the numbers - reassuring to know. have already come a long way having started 180C then adopted 140C for a long time and recently down to 130C. the 120C is next. i see the moisture of the meat improving.
this batch rev 2 is on the gas bbq. will need to adopt commis advice to use instant read at 60-65C as hrs will have no meaning on the 1st go. have used bed of sliced onion same as for oven cook. i dont have cover for bbq which is a tad awkward but time will tell.
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I have a mate who is of Greek descent and the best lamb I have ever eaten is slow cooked in low heat for hours. It was presented in a curry type sauce at his daughter's 21st birthday celebration and my stomach wasn't big enough for my mouth's pleasure. I will ask his wife for the recipe and let you know how to prepare it. although it was large pieces of meat off the bone.
Here is a link to an article / recipe I have used before. Tweek it to your own requirements and you will be surprised at the result.
http://tanyazouev.com/indo-greek-9-hour-slow-cooked-lamb/ (http://tanyazouev.com/indo-greek-9-hour-slow-cooked-lamb/)
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That's a great recipe, thanks livo
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livo,
star man thankyou. will have good read through - pic is exactly what i'm aiming for.
the insider info would be invaluable - fingers crossed (particularly method)
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livo's post has perked me up a little. the rev 2 go was disappointing. in fact well bad.
the rev 1 version last week had so much promise and was a clear step forward.
the rev 2 was step back. the bbq without a cover is simply no good. the aesthetics were spot on. the meat had the better original "lamb" taste. the texture was tuff (a bit like normal roast lamb) - had to be cut with knife could not be forked.
the bag marinading worked a treat. the marjoram in place of rosemary was perfect. the onion bed on bbq worked spot on.
my current going forward thought is to use rev1 till either i can find/make a cover for the gas bbq or get approval to dig pit.
in short i cant see how the objective can be achieved with what i know or have so to speak (eqpt). adding water (cover) takes away from the taste - adding flame fails on the texture.
its a real bugger and rare that i cant see a way forward.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/a781bcb41955aaf0b89a7ce79eb20d13.jpg) (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/#a781bcb41955aaf0b89a7ce79eb20d13.jpg)
was cooked on lowest bbq flame for 7 hrs turning at half time. the instant read was 70 to 75C
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How bout wrapped say in tinfoil or something- i.e., keeping the flames at a bit of a distance from the lamb until the last few minutes for scorching?
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the insider info would be invaluable - fingers crossed (particularly method)
I've sent her an email so should have a reply for you soon. I'm itching to have a go at it myself.
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Double onionist, livo,
Appreciate the help. Might just have to keep foil in mind. The problem with the BBQ was loosing heat from the top surface.
Have gelled with that livo link on the 9 hr Greek method. It even identifies the water problem. I think it might just be the answer. Going to try the method next - in short no water covered sealed 125c 8 hrs lid off 1 hr 200c.
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OK, so my friend has emailed me back and I have the goods on the lamb we ate a few years back. It is not a curry, however anyone with knowledge and skill could very easily adapt this method to incorporate whatever spices they deem desirable. It is not dissimilar to BIR method as it is done with a base sauce / gravy, but it has a more Mediterranean influence being a mixture of Italian sauce and Greek influence.
The original recipe comes from a book released by a Restaurant / Music venue located fairly close to my home. It is a small place with limited seating that provides musical entertainment by the countries top artists as well as internationals and up and comers along with really good food. It is run by a guy who in his own right was a successful musician here in the land of Oz. The recipe is based on Lamb Shanks but my friends did it with large chunks of boned out shoulder which they cooked for only 4 hours. A leg or full shoulder would benefit from the longer cooking but it is done when it's done.
First the sauce / gravy. Remember that this can be currified. It is the method we look at here.
Instead of Celery, Parsley and Basil, use Green Chilli, Indian Bay leaf and Fenugreek leaf, plus some Coriander Cumin and Cardamom pods and / or whatever else you think.
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Now the actual lamb.
Remember this is about method. The recipe uses Lamb Shanks and says they are cooked slowly, but the numbers they use isn't slow. My Greek friends tweaked the numbers and cooked boned chunks of meat (quite large, as in tennis ball size) for 4 hours at 140'C in a tightly lidded pan, turning only once halfway through. They suggest that if it were a joint of lamb on the bone 7 - 8 hours at lower temp would be better.
Again substitute Indian ingredients for the Mediterranean ones and instead of stock and red wine use a Base Gravy for the liquid.
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To show my faith in this recipe and with my Greek friend's mods re temp and time, and the fact that I wanted to eat it again, I have prepared the dish exactly as it appears in the 2 recipe scans. I have some pics to put up ( later) and it is in the oven now at 130'C. Just meat, no bone. Minimum 4 hours. Cost me about $50 but it will feed 12 people, or me twice.
Next time I do this it will be BIR style, but you all need to understand that it is still cooking.
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Livo,
Too kind by far.
I may of not been clear enough - im trying to replicate what I only describe as blackened lamb.
The 9 hr recipe looks an exact match.
Not all is lost so to speak as once this is mastered then your friends - what I would call sauce sounds what I will need. I've never tried taking lamb into 1 pot cooking as I would call it and need to do it in steps
Looking forward to how you get on.
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had stoke of luck. was cooking a beef joint slow and needed to go out before oven had got to temp. needless to say 1st hr or so was 180C not the planned 130C.
thing turned out well blackened.
i'm now am pretty sure what i'm after can be produced in the oven - that 9 hr recipe is essentially it.
the key thing is to add very little water to the covered pot and just top up when needed (start to smell burn or "roasting"). for lamb i will need to use steel tray (covered pot size) and think the bed of onion might just give the liquid (steam) needed to stop roasting. possibly the lower temp ie 125C is also needed.
the beef was cooked for 5 hrs and shredded but still not soft enough. the outer surface had that "burnt" would be the wrong word but certainly not "braised" taste.
next go will be the 9 hr pukka.
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As it's the festival of l'Aid today, I've got a 3.5kg lamb joint in the oven which'll be cooked for 5h at 140? in foil with water at the bottom of the tray. After that I'll put it under the grill to brown it up, the only spicing is garlic cloves, a bit of thyme and a few bay leaves.
Hopefully I'll have plenty of leftovers for my planned Lamb dansak tomorrow, already got the tarka dhal on the go.
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fried, if the lamb's too good, you'll be having a tarka dinner tomorrow!!! :D
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Pics of the recipe in prep from the other day. I became too busy to photograph the finished dish when it came out of the oven but it was every bit as good as I remember it. My daughter's boyfriend ate it for dinner that night then breakfast and lunch the next day. He said he'd never eaten lamb anything like it before.
I boned out another leg last night and this time I'll be doing the Currified version. I'd better duck out to the shops first though. I've run out of foil trays.
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The original recipe comes from a book released by a Restaurant / Music venue located fairly close to my home. It is a small place with limited seating that provides musical entertainment by the countries top artists as well as internationals and up and comers along with really good food. It is run by a guy who in his own right was a successful musician here in the land of Oz.
Is it this one?
http://lizottesshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2561 (http://lizottesshop.com/product_info.php?products_id=2561)
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So I'm told. I don't have the book though, only those 2 pages.
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Well this could have been a disaster but it all turned out OK. I found an unopened pack of foil trays.
"Phew," (wiping my brow with the back of my hand.) "that was close!!!"
I began this by first analysing the original recipe for the slow cooked lamb and deciding on suitable "currified" ingredient substitutions. Possibly not surprisingly, once the Napolitano sauce was modified it turned out pretty similar to a base gravy and examination of JB's looked pretty close anyway so I made a reduced quantity of that first up.
For the pre-oven work on the main dish I cut the lamb smaller and only used 1/2 the quantity, then fried off some usual whole spices followed by onion and G/G paste then added the lamb to brown it off. I subbed in some red and green capsicum and green chilli for the carrots and celery before assembling the whole thing in a lidded cast iron Dutch oven.
5 hours in at 130'C and with a stir 1/2 way through and the result was a very pleasing, fall-apart lamb curry. (Slow Lamb). This shows a lot of potential for tweaking into any number of differently spiced dishes.
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Slow lamb.
I also did a Badami Beef in the pressure cooker, some spinach dal, and had some leftover Rajma Masala from the previous night. Some rice and naan bread, then settled in to watch the Burgess brothers and James Graham show the Aussies how to play Rugby League in the Grand Final of the NRL.
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Fried,
3.5kg is some piece - well impressed. Most ive tackled 1.5kg.
The grilling is something ive kept in mind.
Feedback on how it turned out appreciated.
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The 3.5kg included the bone, but I still fed 4 people on the first night and had enough for 4 generous portions of dansak.
You could even cook the meat longer, but the missus was cooking and it's her recipe, so who am I to argue. The meat still has 'bite' which we prefer. Before grilling the lamb was brushed with olive oil and 'sal?a' which is a hot re pepper puree.
The dansak was beautiful, I'll certainlu use this method again for my once yearly lamb curries.
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had another go at slow cook beef. used the onion bed and a small amount of water just to cover the onion bed - say 10 mm. cooked it 5 hrs at 130C. beef does not need blackening - it seems to darken easily on its own.
feel a further reduction in temp is defo going to be needed to get to the 9 hr cook (needed for the meat to soften enough). currently in reducing the amount of water cover i'm finding the meat's drying out too much. if you add more water say half cover the taste seems to drain away more. it feels a catch 22. i suppose basting every 1 hr might make a difference and worth a try - it feels a tad ott though and should not be needed. hence idea to reduce temp.
in short from what ive seen so far i think the 125C from the 9 hr recipe might not be low enough - i guess it depends much on the size of the joint being cooked (1.5kg say).
any thoughts on what temp might be needed - appreciated. i'm thinking 100C so that the joint will steam in the covered dish.
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Beef is very different to lamb. Different parts of the animal produce a very different cut of meat and these perform with much greater variability. You can (almost) cook just about any part of a lamb any way and get similar a result whereas the same cannot be said for beef.
My understanding is that slow cooking the tender cuts like Fillet and Rib eye will actually toughen them while trying to fast cook a piece of Chuck makes it impossible to eat. Having said that though there is the Hog's Breath Cafe restaurant chain that does minimum 18 hour beef steak which is as tender as you could hope for. I believe they slow cook it in an oven on very low heat from the previous day and throw it on a hot plate momentarily to char grill the outside.
Beef is actually much more difficult to do well than lamb. Let me do some research and I'll get back to you.
OK. So a lot of slow cooked beef uses Heston Blumenthal's 6 hour Roast Beef principle and there is a distinct difference between slow cooking prime cuts as compared to cuts that have to be slow-cooked, like chuck and brisket.
Heston's 6 Hour Roast Beef (http://reluctanthousedad.com/2012/02/09/recipe-shed-six-hour-roast-beef/)
Try this. Core temp not to exceed 58'C.
Slow Tender Beef (http://myhome.id.au/beef/)
or this,
18 Hour Bacon wrapped beef eye fillet (http://jasmynetea.typepad.com/jasmyne-tea/2011/03/18-hour-slow-cooked-steak.html)
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livo,
many thanks - a real eye opener. at least i now know i'm not mad.
not sure if i could go with such a colour which would be step change for me (and most of UK).
will try going down to 100C on the next go for sure. will keep ballpark 55C in the back of my mind for now.
ps agree on the difference - it was our butcher who had recommended brisket as what he believed an equal to lamb shoulder for slow cook. both taste really nice. just need to get the cooking optimized.
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Heston's meat is a bit rare for me too. I don't mind pink middle but I like the animal to be dead.
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tried out the 100C cook. the oven ranged from 100 to 110C. cooked brisket for 6 hrs covered. added sliced onion base and 10 mm water cover.
am pretty sure i'm now sorted on slow cook temp at 100/110C. the meat did not dry out.
next step will be to go up to the 9 hrs cook.
for info the liquid cover on the 100/110 cook actually increased as liquid comes from the onion and the oven temp is not hot enough to force it to escape as steam. the cover remained at 25 mm all the way through.
amazingly the meat inside looked the same (dark ie cooked) as it does at 130C - no hint of pink. i'm hoping the increase in cooking from 6 to 9 hrs will yield a bit more melt in the mouth texture. the 100/110C 6 hr easily forked.
feel i'm almost there leaving the "blackening" for the lamb left "todo" either by increased oven temp at end (200C) or grill.
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Good to see you making headway. I had to cook another batch of the slow lamb. It's so good.
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i've given up on this - too many poor results and not going in the needed direction
the last go was the kuzu tandir recipe - 1.5hrs 140C covered, 1.5 hrs 185C uncovered
what i've learn't
1) blackened lamb needs a fire or smoke - it cant be done in domestic oven
2) lowering the temp results in much much longer cooking time with no real gain
3) adding cover water is not necessary
4) from i think Dalpuri post on amazingrib site - wrapping in foil works a treat (keeps moisture trapped in)
5) marinade ain't really worth it as its only on the surface
6) sliced onion helps keep the meat moist
7) upping the oven temp for last 30 mins say 200 - 240C does brown surface
im reverting back to what ive always done ie 140C for 5 hrs covered with sprinkling of salt and black pepper. i'll try out the foil wrapping and use 1 off sliced onion to sit the joint on.