Curry Recipes Online
British Indian Restaurant Recipes - Starters & Side Dishes => Starters and Side Dishes Chat => Topic started by: Roy22 on October 30, 2006, 10:24 PM
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Not a recipe request, this question's about the cooking step.
Every attempt I've made at Naan breads has ended up like an oversized Pitta bread. Large, uniformly brown, very nice but nothing like a Restaurant Naan. A recent attempt with a Pizza stone in a gas oven at max. temperature didn't work either. And giving it a singeing afterwards with a blowtorch didn't fool anyone.
Be honest now, how many of your attempts have looked remotely like the BIR variety?
I notice one post earlier on, claiming success with an iron pan heated very hot. Can anyone confirm this or offer any other advice? Or is the simple answer that if you haven't got a proper Tandoor oven, you'll only ever get a large Pitta bread?
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The trick for baking naan bread on a pizza stone is to pre-heat the oven at max for at least 45 - 60 minutes . ( I use an inverted metal cookie sheet @ 30 min .) With the dough prep , be sure not to over stretch it . Bake for 5 minutes and grill for 2 .
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I dont think it is possible to make a proper nan at home, given the home setup. The restaurant nans use a much wetter dough than we can use at home. Kris Dhillion is close with her recipe but you really need a tandoor. Tava does a reasonable job if you can get enough heat going. http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=700.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=700.0)
I used a pizza stone which is heated for a minimum of one hour, combined that with a grill it produces a tasty nan type bread. But it aint gonna win any awards for copycat restaurant nans. After saying that, not all restaurant nans are the same.
Basic tips, adding more sugar will brown your nan quicker.
Strong bread making flour of 12% protein will result in a chewier bread, by adding more oil this will help soften the dough (also without the oil it will be harder to brown the nan)
The use of yoghurt will make a heavier dough. Flour with a protein of 10% or under will produce a softer bread and will be harder to shape without breaking.
I use a combination of 12% protein and 10% protein (85% / 15%). I use fresh yeast mixed with cold water and leave the dough in the fridge for a minimum of 1 hour after mixing.
This is to stop the yeast starting too quickly, allow only one rise. Another good tip is to let your dough rest for 10 minutes after the first 5 minutes of mixing. This helps the dough absorb the water properly.
Hope this helps, Ashes
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Hi Roy,
I'm not sure what is acceptable to you, Roy, but here are some photos of naans that I make on a very hot tava (griddle) on a gas burner.
They are not as fluffy as good BIR restaurant naans, but they are pretty soft, supple and moist (though they perhaps don't look like it in the photos) and very tasty nevertheless - especially when brushed with butter ghee (the bottom photo).
For anyone interested, I have posted my recipe and procedure here: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1448.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=1448.0)
Cheers,
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Check this thread out: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=700.0 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=700.0)
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My wife does the breads (I am hopeless ::) ) and she cooks the Naans under the grill and the chapatis directly on the gas ring, and the rotis on a Tawa. All turn out great - sometimes :o (its Ok she's not looking) I think Ashes has got it right ( :-[ oh heck she was... sore ear now) ;D
CP
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8) 8) The Naan looks the Biz Ashes, but do try sesame oil. Adds a great taste. Possibly some added coriander leaves to the mix as well.
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Sorry spicy i cant take the credit for those im afraid, they are corys :)
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Bloody hell Ashes! They aren't that bad are they! :o
LOL! ;D
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They look great Cory!!
here is a link i posted ages ago under the weblinks section.
the video shows those bubbley nans in the tandoor :P
check out the "video" link in the right hand corner.
http://www.motherindia.se (http://www.motherindia.se)
Ashes ;D
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Part of the charm of a good naan is that some areas are thicker and fluffy, and some are thin and crisp. You won't get that using a rolling pin. You have to pat and stretch it instead. Another thing, that uneven-ness prevents it from puffing up like a balloon, or pocket pita.
-Mary
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Well said Mary
CP
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Is there much strong evidence that any/many BIRs prepare their own naan breads from basic dough, whether they make the dough themselves or buy it in?
The reason I wonder is that a friend of a friend works for a firm who supposedly supply many, many Indian restaurants with pre-cooked naan breads a bit like you get from supermarkets. They just reheat them! I am trying to find out more but it may take some time.
Regards
George
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True George. Lets face it, bread cooking is a specialised art on its own, and I can't see the halfwits in many BIRs being able to cope with Naans. However Chappattis are a different matter, Hmmmmm ...........
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:'( :'( Once tried my hand at making Naan in the takeaway which I was doing deliveries for, I got the texture and shape just right, but when it came to sticking it on the wall of the tandoor I burned all the hairs on me bleeding arm and the Naan fell into the bottom. { much to the delight of the staff }.
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Bet that dampened down the Tandoor then ;D Anyone for toast?
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This may come a shock to you.. but there is another type of food called pizza :o
This is an interview with an Canadian/American guy who for many years has being trying to perfect the perfect restaurant pizza. Now although this hasn't much to do with nan bread, it goes to show the problems of creating restaurant food in a home set-up.. he explains it pretty well and gives some tips about bread making in general. There is certainly something that will help you one step further along the road to a perfect home made nan. Hope this helps!!
http://jvpizza.sliceny.com/JeffOnCanadianRadioOct06.wmv (http://jvpizza.sliceny.com/JeffOnCanadianRadioOct06.wmv)
Ashes
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Thanks for the replies! Some interesting points. The reply with the link to a radio discussion about pizza bases was pretty relevant too, I thought, as this is something I've tried (and failed) to get right too.
The conclusion I came too about pizza bases was that they are cooked in a blazingly hot oven, very fast. On TV, I think I saw an Italian cook move a pile of burning wood cinders (in an oven) aside a foot or so, and then immediately put the pizza onto the vacated 'hot spot'. The high temperature crisps the outside whilst leaving the inner moist, provided it is pulled out just minutes later.
My gas oven goes up to Mark 9 which is 240 degrees C. My guess is that this is nowhere near hot enough. The 'glowing red hot' ovens of a pizzeria are likely to be at least double this (I work with furnaces but not the sort you can put food in!) and perhaps far hotter. To the poster who mentioned putting a pizza stone in the oven for a long time, I do doubt that even stabilised at 240C, this would ever suffice. My hunch is that successful naans are 90% about the cooking and 10% about the dough recipe.
Anyway, the comments on the radio interview link kind of support this idea, as he tampers (dangerously) to override his oven's clean cycle temperature limit.
Another problem with pizza stones, incidentally, is the ease of breaking them. I didn't dare copy the moist dough as used in a restaurant, which they want to 'stick' to a tandoor's wall, after reading countless stories on Amazon.com of reviewers cracking their Sassafras stones by thermal shock etc. Cold liquid onto brittle stone at 240C isn't good.
The other factor with a Tandoor is the 'clay effect' which at least a stone should emulate.
Does anyone have an idea of temperatures inside a Tandoor? I did get a look inside one once, it didn't look all that hot but then it might not have been in proper use at the time. I know the cooks lose the hair on the arm they use to place naans against the wall. Can anyone shed any light on how hot tandoors get? Do the electric ones have a temperature dial to adjust which would give this away?
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Someone on this forum has bought one, cant remember who, they seemed to get some great results with it, do a search, you will find him & his amazing Oven. :)
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Didnt Pete have his own tandoor?
According to Pat Chapman a tandoor gets up to temperatures of 370 degrees. Which is hot but not as hot as a clay pizza oven (some use wood others use coal). The pizza places around stockholm which use an electric tray type oven cook at 320 degrees ( ive checked the termometer on the outside). But both use the idea of really high temperatures and clay, which absorbs moister and retains heat. If you look at the shape of a pizza oven and a tandoor youll see they are both designed to let intense heat circulate, this increases the heat i think, thats why fan assisted ovens need less heat to cook food than a standard oven. Its a shame your standard oven doesnt get hotter than 260 degrees, but i guess youll have all sorts of problems with trying to get rid of that heat.
what a pizza stone will help do is to retain some of the heat when you open and close the door, also contact heat from a hot stone or a hot iron frying pan (which i sometimes use) or a tava also helps to inject heat. But if you want to get it right youll have to buy a home tandoor, or make one.. but the main problem for people is where to use it.
Regards Ashes
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When we move next year, I will build my own Tandoor. I have the plans & methods from a guy on the Net (I posted his site URL earlier). Cheap as chips an worth it. Anyway guys I am off for a while I have gad enough of the complaints, justified or not.
CP
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I'm hoping to build my own tandoor, too. Does anyone know whereabouts the naans are supposed to be stuck on the wall of the tandoor? They say the teardrop shape comes from the naan hanging down, so perhaps its stuck to a diagonal wall, sort of half way between a vertical and horizontal. I was just thinking that maybe I could shape my home made tandoor to faciliate the best means of cooking naan bread.
Regards
George
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Nice theory George, but it is my understanding that they are that shape to facilitate putting them in and taking them out the tandoor. Try these two sites (the first is the best).
I would advise that you buy the clay pot, it is made from special clay with hair mixed in to bind and strengthen it. I am reliably informed you can not use any old clay. However, and there is alwauys one, I have already posted a link to a site where the guy builds tandoors from terracotta plantpots!
http://piers.thompson.users.btopenworld.com/background.html (http://piers.thompson.users.btopenworld.com/background.html) main site
http://piers.thompson.users.btopenworld.com/breads.html (http://piers.thompson.users.btopenworld.com/breads.html) Breads
http://www.indiantandoors.com/ (http://www.indiantandoors.com/)
Hope this helps George
CP
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CP
I've read about the tear-drop shape being caused by gravity in several places, perhaps starting with Pat Chapman. Has anyone else read that? Thank you for the links. I'd seen them before and they provided some of my inspiration.
A proper clay liner would be far too expensive and less of a challenge than making my own out of readily available, low cost materials. My total budget is low ?10s. If it works, I'll let you know. If it fails, I won't have set myself up for ridicule by setting out the materials and design here. Suffice it to say that I want to build a tandoor that's about the same size as a BIR would use, so it's easier to get your hand quickly in and out, than with a small domestic one. Whereas most BIRs use gas these days, I will use charcoal for a hopefully superior aroma.
I hope it will also double up as (a) a bread oven and (b) a pizza oven.
Regards
George
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Hi George,
.....Does anyone know whereabouts the naans are supposed to be stuck on the wall of the tandoor?
As far as I know, the naans are stuck just inside the tandoor (i.e. in the neck of the tandoor, as it were.....obviously about half an arms length inside in fact! :P). As you point out, the naans would therefore be stuck at an angle from vertical.
...They say the teardrop shape comes from the naan hanging down...
I've also read this in several places, probably also mainly in Pat Chapman's books. This sounds feasible to me, particularly if the dough is very pliable and elastic. I've also read the opposite; that this is all tosh and that the naan is pulled into a teardrop shape prior to cooking. However, I really can't see a reason for doing this (apart from that it looks "right"!), including how it might facilitate placing and removing the bread from the tandoor?
I've also read that the clay is a "special clay" only availble from certain parts of India. Yeah right! ::)
You simply need a clay with the right properties, such as:
- able to be moulded (if you are going to do this yourself...much better off getting Demi Moore to do it for you though :P)
- sufficient "green" (i.e. unfired) strength to be handled in the unfired state
- able to withstand the high temperature and temperature changes in a tandoor without cracking (i.e. ceramic material)
- sufficiently porous to absorb juices/smells etc
- hasn't got any nasty impurities in it which may be detrimental to your health!
The purpose of any "hair", that CP mentions, would be to increase the "green" (unfired) strength of the tandoor for handling (i.e. for construction and shipping) purposes only. Of course there are many alternative "binders" available in the more modern Western world! ;)
The tandoor is generally fired "in situ" (i.e. when it's first fired up for use) whereupon, one would hope, any such hairs (or any other organic binders, plasticisers, etc) would burn off....and prererably not into your naan bread ;D
As you probably know, Shahi is a major supplier of tandoors to BIRs. You will find some downloadable product specs here: http://www.clayovens.com/products.html (http://www.clayovens.com/products.html)
Don't forget to check out their picture gallery here: http://www.clayovens.com/gallery4.html (http://www.clayovens.com/gallery4.html)
Regards,
PS: Is it worth moving these posts to a new new thread called "building you own tandoor"?
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Nice post Cory.
Apparently those big table nans they do in the Birmingham balti places are applied to the tandoor with a large pillow or something similar. I would have thought for a normal sized nan you could use a long oven glove, so as not to burn the hairs off your arm ;D
Anything cotton or woollen is pretty much fire resistant (fireman use thick cotton clothing) most man-made fibres aren't good to have near fire, they enjoy burning and melting. :P
So given that, you could reasonably be able to make your own heat protection, out of a pillow case and some cotton padding and a sewing machine :) - at least until you've got the technique down to a fine art.
regards ashes
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Nice one Cory. I asked about the tear drop shape and it is just tradition I am told and shaped before cooking. Most wholesalers and Ethnic shops sell round Nans now, and I guess they are made in traditional brick built bread/pizza ovens. Actuall a tandoor is great but personally I would just go and buy some excellent ones from my Asian grocer ;D :D ;)
CP
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Don't forget to check out their picture gallery here: http://www.clayovens.com/gallery4.html (http://www.clayovens.com/gallery4.html)
PS: Is it worth moving these posts to a new new thread called "building you own tandoor"?
Cory
Thanks for your great post. I think I can see a 'cushion' pad type thing on the clay ovens gallery page. We could move the 'building' posts to a new thread but coordination might be difficult.
Regards
George
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i just watched that videos link, dam Ive never felt so hungry!!