Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: DARTHPHALL on October 19, 2006, 04:01 PM
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After reading several comments i will try & put some good points down in this new thread.
If you strongly disagree feel free to post your alternative method/ingredients & reasons.
All these points are from many members here on the forum.
1. Oil is necessary to gain the Bir style.
2. Do not overSpice. A:Try not to use too many different Spices in a single Recipe.
B: Try not to add too much quantity of Spice in your recipe.
3. If your going to achieve the Bir "Taste", "Smell" you should know on the day of cooking if you have succeeded or not.
4. Judging by comments & my own perceptions Tomato puree/Ketchup & Tin tomato's may be used but in less quantities than many recipes give you (including my own).
5. there is a general concensus that it is method rather than a particular Ingredient that produces the Bir "Taste" & or "Smell".
Thats for starters, hope my assumptions are correct, if you have any other basic rules you think we need to add just post away, as the site is big & a general rule/tips thread would be of help to us all. :)
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Darth I think you've pretty much Nailed it there my old Mukka ;D
The only things I would add are =
1. Buy Small Bags of Spices Often (100g)
2. Always Dry Roast and Grind Your Own Garam Massala.
3. Always Use Fresh Ingredients.
4. Never Follow Recipes Down To The Last Gram Experiment Until YOU Are Happy.
5. If You Make A Balls Up of Your Curry's Don't Bin em Send em To Me ;D ;D ;D
Good Luck To Us All
;) Layne
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Darth - 5 is a huge factor IMO
Layne - ditto 1, I recently threw out all my old spices (they were still in date but fresh is best)
How many people dust off that 3 year old jar of cumin and wonder why the recipe tastes so bland!
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I sent this out yesterday but Layne posted his and it didn't post for some reason :'( so here it is.
Anyway I also agree whole heartedly on all the points made so far:
DP1 Use the best oil you can and get one that has a high flash point. Don't re-use oil as some change their chemical structure and become carcionagenic.
DP2 Yes, keep things simple, and remember some spices do not react well with others, e.g. Cumin if overused will kill every flavour including ist own! So stick to the ratios in the recipe until you are confident.
DP3, definitely; learn how to cook using your eyes and smell only, like Indian chefs do. Tasting during cooking will not give you the correct indication of what the dish will be in its final stages and may tempt you to add more spices!
DP4 Yes, vey important. Tomatoes in their different forms do different things to the final flavour. Use paste sparingly during the flash frying stage only; it gives the depth and sweetness to the final result. Use tinned or fresh in the latter stages as this will produce a fresher taste and also will 'crack' the spices to release their final flavours.
DP5 Yes definitely, I think I am consistent on this. You need high (flash), medium, and low (Dum) heats at various stages to fuse and release the spice's flavours. BIRs use high heat to cook and then put the dish under low heat (servery) for about 10 minutes to finish off.
LB 1-5 Definitely. I would just add; store your spices in a cool dark place (not the fridge!). Spend time on learning the skills of pan and oven roasting, it will pay dividends; and always roast spices separately.
CP 1 Write down what you do, when you do it, and what ingredient(s) and their weights that you use. Then you can go back and review your successes or disasters. If you are like me and like a glass of beer or two while you are cooking it is easy to forget what you have done.
CP 2 Make sure any you send to Layne are clearly marked and well packed! ;D
CP
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I sent this out yesterday but Layne posted his and it didn't post for some reason :'( so here it is.
Anyway I also agree whole heartedly on all the points made so far:
DP1 Use the best oil you can and get one that has a high flash point. Don't re-use oil as some change their chemical structure and become carcionagenic.
This is not correct though when talking about BIR cooking. We know from a number of first hand reports that a lot of BIR's reuse the oil and not just from the base. Some also reuse the curry oil and deep fat frying oil. Another point is that the majority of BIR's will not use decent expensive oil, they will use the cheap as you can get veg or sunflower oil by the drum.
It maybe the case for more upmarket restaurants but for the run of the mill BIR everything is reused and done on the cheap.
cK
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I agree CK, but that doesn't make it OK. I was just trying to get a reference point and lob in some quality and Health & Safety points at the same time :D ::) I suppose there would be no harm using oil from the base as it is not heated to a very high heat. I sometimes skim oil off and reuse it but only if I know I haven't exceeded its limits. I only use it for the same dishes though!
Sorry, I keep forgetting this mission is to find the ultimate BIR secrets even if they kill you! ;D ;D ;D ;D :-[
Keep on truckin'
CP
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Thanks everyone so far for getting more points in, we need more i forgot most of them :(
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Yeah the problem is if you want to recreate BIR curry at home you have to do as they do to a certain extent. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or that you cannot produce a nice curry in other ways but this thread is about copying BIR's not a debate on wether their cooking methods are up to standard.
To be honest I'm not one for reusing oil and I have been told by one chef that the he NEVER reused oil as it goes against health and safety regulations. This is not general practice though as already said a number of members have experienced reusing oil first hand.
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1. Oil is necessary to gain the Bir style.
What??? Of course oil is necessary! And plenty of it! Cheap stuff too! Is there REALLY any debate on this!??? 8)
2. Do not overSpice. A:Try not to use too many different Spices in a single Recipe.
B: Try not to add too much quantity of Spice in your recipe.
Hmmm...perhaps?
3. If your going to achieve the Bir "Taste", "Smell" you should know on the day of cooking if you have succeeded or not.
Of course! It's obvious! 100% agree!....as YF recently pointed out :P
4. Judging by comments & my own perceptions Tomato puree/Ketchup & Tin tomato's may be used but in less quantities than many recipes give you (including my own).
copious amounts of tinned tomatoes produces bitterness...not nice! Judicious use of puree or passata is much better...in my humble opinion...
5. there is a general concensus that it is method rather than a particular Ingredient that produces the Bir "Taste" & or "Smell".
I disagree that there is a "general concensus" here Darth! Whereas I believe there is no one single "secret" ingredient, I firmly believe (and I think it is totally illogical to think otherwise!) that it is a combination of ingredients AND techniques that produces "that taste" and "that smell"...and, for that matter, "that appearance"!. Pursuing "technique" without correct "ingredients" (and vice versa) is clearly going to be a fruitless task! ::)
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1. Buy Small Bags of Spices Often (100g)
Ahhh...Layne...it cleary depends on how quickly you use them! Granted, the tunrover of BIRs is probably fast.....and their spices are probably also reasonalbly fresh. But, stored corrrectly (i.e. in airtight containers, out of the damp, out of sunlight), they will last for several months (powders) and longer (whole spices)
2. Always Dry Roast and Grind Your Own Garam Massala.
I disagree! Do BIRs actually use garam masala??? If they do, do they make it themselves? I seriously doubt it! :-\
3. Always Use Fresh Ingredients.
Sorry Layne, no way! BIRs will not use ONLY fresh ingredients! I am sure they will use commercially prepared ingredients......such as commercial garlic and ginger purees and commercial curry powers and pastes, etc, etc! 8)
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Glad this has made members post (as i suspected it would & that was the intention ;)).
The idea behind this post was to get you peeps telling me your opinions so that we could collate them all & make a more precise & usefull thread with a collection of good solid points & guidelines in one clear thread to help new & old members in "The Quest"!
Thanks & keep posting , the more the merrier ;) ;D.
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As I have said in my other response Woks Up this is about ideas and opinions so that we can create something of a reference standard for one and all. I suspect it is your use of words and phraseology that gets my back up, sorry but words like illogical and irrelevant or totally disagree, are not suitable for me. I have the same respect for newbies opinions as well as the experienced as we all have something to contribute, and that includes you.
I have moved to the Dark Side 8) >:(
CP
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8) It is the only way my young apprentice 8) & together we can end this destructive conflict & bring order...AHEM sorry :-[ ;D
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......this is about ideas and opinions.....I suspect it is your use of words and phraseology that gets my back up, sorry but words like illogical and irrelevant or totally disagree, are not suitable for me.....
.....Oh dear oh dear!!! :o
....and...errr...I don't recall using the word "irrelevant"...did I? No matter! It's probably irrelevant anyway! ;) :D
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;D ;D ;D ;D OK, enough said and my toys are now back in the pram. Lets get on with the mission........ erm what was it we were supposed to be doing ??? :-[ Ok WoksUp?
CP :-[ :-\ ???
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Well Woks Up
It appears there aren't many things in this thread You do agree with :-\
have you been drinkin with the Snowdog ?
I have stated in earlier threads that an old friend of mine (Bangladeshi) had his own establishment but He NEVER used Ginger Or Garlic Paste he Always used Fresh SO Your Wrong on that Count ::)
Garam Masalla OK I never seen him grind his own spices but that's gotta be up to the individual if You don't want to grind your own then Don't But there's No way on this earth will You or anyone else for that matter convince me that ready ground Garam Massala is better than freshly ground stuff :(
The case for keeping your spices in the cupboard for months well that's again up to the individual but 50p to 60p for a 100g bag isn't gonna break the bank is it ? you can then rest assured your not using SawDust after spending the time and effort trying to produce a dish using inferior products.
I'm sorry to say Woks Up but I think you'll be chasing that dream of finding that Golden Egg for a long time with your Ideas.
8) Layne
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...it appears there aren't many things in this thread You do agree with...SO Your Wrong on that Count....But there's No way on this earth will You or anyone else for that matter convince me that ready ground Garam Massala is better than freshly ground stuff....I'm sorry to say Woks Up but I think you'll be chasing that dream of finding that Golden for a long time with your Ideas.
.....Oh dear, oh dear, Layne!! :o
It seems that a number of us can't accept other's differing opinions without getting upset, defensive and personal about it!!! :o
....How unfortunate is that!!! ::)
....actually, I appear to have agreed with several things! 8)
....and I certainly never suggested that your Bangladeshi friend uses commercial garlic and ginger pastes!.....did I?? ::)
"you WILL conform Woks Up!" ;) ;D
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Or you could Give yourself to the Darkside! ;D
Failing that Cp & Layne could throw you into the Darkside naked & with child. ;D :D
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion and without debate and discussion we would go nowhere but Woks Up is pointing out info that we already know. Do we really need another thread discussing each of our opinions on what BIR's do or not do. Unless it's an actual first hand account it is just guess work, not all BIR's are the same anyway so a list of, "I think they might use this" or "they might use that" is pointless.
The things I believe to be certain about your average BIR are:
They use lots of oil, cheap oil.
They use powered spices not freshly ground.
Everything is reused and nothing is thrown away.
I've come to these conclusions from years of trying to emulate BIR's and talking to BIR staff. The problem is I've had different info from two different chefs so what chance have we got ::)
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I reckon the most important factor behind being able to copy a BIR dish is having a good recipe which states accurate quantities and brands of ingredients, as well as clear instructions on how they are brought together. Anyone with a moderate grounding in basic cooking techniques should be able to follow a well written recipe and get the intended end result. If the result is bad, then the recipe is probably bad.
I'm not persuaded about the need for huge batches, nuclear-powered burners or the need for many years of skills training.
Regards
George
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As i previously stated this thread really was to help us all put together a list of good pointers which will help us all get closer to our goals as this site is hoooogmungious!
So keep em flying in members & perhaps when this is exhausted we can post the info in the hints & tips section & delete this one or keep it for the amusement of others :D.
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Whats the point in a list of maybes though? If later on tonight a BIR chef or another member posted a genuine base and vindaloo recipe I for one wouldn't check the "BIR pointer" thread just to check whats best to do, I would follow it to the letter because it's from the horses mouth so to speak. If it turned out ok but I thought I could improve it I would have a stab at it based on what I believe will improve it not try standing on one leg tickling my nipple just because someone says it's so in the "BIR pointer thread"
If there is any genuine info that would be beneficial to say a complete n00b then it should go in the FAQ.
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I was hoping to get a list of ideas that would be of use to use & also there aren't that many who have genuine accounts of Bir Cooks, Also some of the info that is genuine doesn't always work for all of us.
I have set this thread out to genuinely be positive & hope to be helpfull to all,pointless?
It depends on your point of view on this, i ask if it helps anyone then perhaps its not as pointless, i leave it for members to decide as this is a community/forum & points of view,personal perception plays greatly here? :)
But the important factor is that we can disagree yet still be able to carry on a civilised dialogue with those we disagree with which is a very positive aspect in our favor or is that Flavor. ;D
Anyhow i thank all of you for your opinions ;)
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Well Darth, what more can we do? I perceive a lot of negativity around. My original idea for this was a reference area in the Forum so that members provide key input, and could search more easily for information, especially that which is buried in threads elsewhere. It looks like the small group of us who are in favour are outnumbered.
I also thought this Forum was called 'Curry Recipes Online', but appears that some are taking a Pythonesque attitude/approach and gaily plodding on for the mythical BIR Grail, ignoring some of the superb key and positive points made by members.
Maybe someone in Admin should review this site's objectives/goals and put them down in print so there is common understanding amongst us all.
CP
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It is a grey area, but my impression of this site is, a voluntary forum for people of the world to talk about Bir & authentic Curries & i might add to make new friends through our mutual Curry making goals, weather it be to produce a exact copy of your local Take-away/Bir &/or to be able to cook fine Authentic Curry cuisine With the added bonus of an Oriental Authentic & Take-away style section. ;D
But we all have our own perceptions, being able to view your own & others with equality, humility & tolerance is the trick to keeping it all heated yet positive (as goes with the World in general).
A tip i have learned is to think about what you are saying before you post it & try to make it come across in a positive light as it is very difficult to convey emotion, regardless of emoticons.
If we are going to do it right there are many pointless threads/posts by all of us that could be deleted to make this site less convoluted, but is would be a task & a half, also who is to judge the validity of a post ?
So stuff that in ya Curry base & fry it ;D :P ;D.
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Hi folks,
The goal of CR0 has not changed since inception, it is to recreate the food produced in standard British Indian restaurants (commonly run by Bangledeshis).
Of course there's scope for other related activity/discussion, hence the authentic, Thai and chinese areas but the main goal is as stated above.
cheers
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Hi Mark
Perhaps CK could add that to the FAQ so that new members don't get confused.
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Thanks for confirming that Mark......I was getting pretty confused myself! :P
I think YF has made a very good suggestion. Maybe it would be even better to state words to that effect on the main "welcome" page?
Whaddya think?
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Good idea
CP
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I second that....Admins ? :)