Curry Recipes Online
Curry Base Recipes => Curry Sauce, Curry Base , Curry Gravy Recipes, Secret Curry Base => Topic started by: Invisible Mike on June 25, 2013, 12:25 AM
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Hi All
I am new to the forum. I have been cooking curries for a while now but only relatively recently had the BIR curry "epiphany" when I learnt about garabis/base gravies, mix powders and the pre-cooking of chicken! Overnight my curries were totally transformed but are still not quite "there" yet. I've tried a couple of different gravies and do have a favourite but I'm still convinced there is a better formula out there.
I managed to pick up a copy of Pat Chapman's Balti Curry Cookbook (1993) for a pound the other day. Bargain I thought, but we'll see. I am intrigued to know if anyone on here owns this book and has tried the Special Balti Base Sauce on page 108. The recipe is as follows:
200ml Milk
200ml Water
2tbsp Ghee or Veg oil
3 Cloves Garlic
225g Onion
110g Carrot
50g Celeriac
50g White Radish (Mooli)
4 Bay Leaves
8-10 Green Cardomom Pods
Several pieces of Cassia Bark
1tsp Fennel Seeds
1/2 tsp Turmeric
1" Ginger
I am actually sceptical about the inclusion of celeriac and even more so about the mooli especially if it actually tastes like radish (I have never tried it) but I know Pat's books are supposed to be amongst the best so who am I to argue. Now I know the book is 20 years old and therefore the recipes may be deemed as obsolete to some, especially as this is unlike the more standard recipes which contain cabbage, peppers and 10 litres of oil etc but I'm very curious to know if this works before I spend an afternoon wasting gallons of petrol hunting high and low around all the shops for the mooli! Any thoughts on this recipe would be appreciated. :)
Many Thanks
MM
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I haven't tried the base myself, but PC is not really very famous around these planes. I believe he is seen somewhat like many authors out there who failed to deliver with their books.
You have plenty of good base sauces on this forum. To name but a few: taz, chewytikka, saffron, darthphall, CA
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I used to make this base and the curries from the book quite a lot at one time, i have got a few links somewhere on here will try and find for you.
Is this the book with the pastes?
If so i made some excellent curries from them and not been that disappointed with the results.
I remember the hassle i had trying to find mooli, Tesco sell it now.
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Found this out
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,5108.msg49741.html#msg49741 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,5108.msg49741.html#msg49741)
http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,5195.msg50997.html#msg50997 (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,5195.msg50997.html#msg50997)
I do use a different Balti Base and recipes now but they are from another site.
My Balti cooking has come on leaps and bounds since the above links. Having had the pleasure of been allowed into some local Indian Restaurant kitchens some of them being Balti houses.
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Cheers UF
Yes this is the book with the pastes. I looked at those links. I had a funny feeling someone on here would have been familiar with the book and that particular base. As it happens I found loads of mooli on sale in my local Morrisons earlier so I'll give it a whirl asap.
MM
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Always make the recipe you choose to spec then tweak to your own tastes as i did for my palette/region.
The pastes from the book last for quite a few months.
Any questions please feel free to ask away.
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If it's still of any interest I made this base up last night and followed the recipe for the balti madras from the same book using the pastes. The base on its own tasted pretty much like any other I've made. The final dish had a lot of depth but for me wasn't a true madras in my book. The best madras so for comprises of the following..
Undercover Curry Base (taken from Jamie Curle Website)
Dipuraja's Madras (although for the spices and g&g etc work in teaspoons instead of the prescribed chefspoons. Also, omit the salt)
Made with:
Julian's Mix Powder &
Julian's Pre-cooked Chicken (again omit the salt and don't be tempted to throw in the spicy cooking juices or the finished dish will be too harsh.)
Awesome! I would definitely recommend this to even the most 'seasoned' of BIR connoiseurs.
MM
edited by George: changed 2 instances of 'emit' to read 'omit'.
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I bought this book, back in the day, before the Interweb and all that stuff. I prob (sic) still have it.
Never really made much, if anything, from it - so can't really comment.
Things have moved on a lot since then, I guess. Pat, bless him, was maybe making the first attempts to emulate the taste and texture of the restaurant-style curries of the day. Maybe he succeeded. Maybe not.
I think that restaurant curries have moved on a lot in the last 20 years and perhaps good old Pat was ground-breaking in his day - maybe we should show him more respect for attempting to achieve what we are attempting to achieve now........with similar success it would seem.
I also bought, I think, Pat Chapman's Restaurant Curries. I made a few attempts at his Pakistani Curry Gravy as a base, but found it a bit underwhelming.
Pat's ok - give him a break. He tried - his heart was in the right place :)
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I'd really like a copy of this book for the Balti recipes but it's entirely unavailable in Germany. Does anyone have a scan of it? I'd be happy to buy it but it's simply not available :/
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I'd really like a copy of this book for the Balti recipes but it's entirely unavailable in Germany.
http://www.amazon.de/Curry-Club-Balti-Cookbook/dp/0749916699 (http://www.amazon.de/Curry-Club-Balti-Cookbook/dp/0749916699)
** Phil.
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But is that the same one?
Edit
Who cares, for that price I just ordered it ;)
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But is that the same one?
No, it's a more recent edition (1997 v. 1993). May even contain some corrections ! This (http://www.amazon.de/Curry-Club-Balti-Cookbook/dp/0749912146/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books-intl-de&ie=UTF8&qid=1372681486&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=pat+chapman+1993+balti) is the 1993 original.
** Phil.
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But is that the same one?
Edit
Who cares, for that price I just ordered it ;)
The price of the book is likely only to be the start of your costs, once you've written off hours and hours of what could turn out to be wasted effort, not to speak of ingredients.
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Good point. I spent part of Saturday afternoon sourcing some of the spices I didn't have. All evening making the gravy, smashing cassia bark in the pestle and mortar (not fun), mixing the tandoori powder and the balti massala powder on top of rice and homemade pakoras....It wasn't until 4 hours later that the dinner was on the table. Was it worth it? No. The madras I recommended in my last post is an hard act to follow. I've just ordered the Abdul Mohed book. His recipes look much more like the real deal.
MM
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Hi
Please remember that this a balti base.
Regards
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.......and was written 20 years ago and doesn't profess to be a British Indian Restaurant/Takeaway cookbook
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This was the first base I ever made, so any criticism I have off it is probably my own doing. I can't actually remember what it tasted like but the end product never impressed me much. I didn't have that magic curry moment until I made Chewytikka's 3 hour base.
As has been mentioned this is Balti style which I think is pretty hard to find the genuine product
,unless you live around Birmingham. So, it was my first base, cooking in an unfamiliar style.
I still use the Tandoori masala recipe though and it's a recipe that's been copied all over the net.
Might be interesting to try the base again.
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.......and was written 20 years ago and doesn't profess to be a British Indian Restaurant/Takeaway cookbook
I think that, by definition, any book setting out to describe the preparation of Balti dishes must be a book concerning BIR techniques. The Balti styloe originated in the BIR trade (in the West Midlands, to be precise).
** Phil.
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Our Pat would argue that the 'Balti' originated in an area of northern Pakistan known as Baltistan rather than Birmingham
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Our Pat would argue that the 'Balti' originated in an area of northern Pakistan known as Baltistan rather than Birmingham
"Our Pat" was very keen to establish himself as the font of all wisdom concerning Indian food, and made quite a good living from it (or so I am given to understand). Whether his pronouncements can entirely be relied upon is, I would venture to suggest, a rather different matter ...
** Phil.
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Well I didn't make the quote
I think that, by definition, any book setting out to describe the preparation of Balti dishes must be a book concerning BIR techniques. The Balti styloe originated in the BIR trade (in the West Midlands, to be precise).
It would be interesting and informative to hear your reply to Pat's opinion that that is not the case. I would suggest that your opinion is, at least, less believable than Pat's on this matter since you seem to believe what you say above.
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It would be interesting and informative to hear your reply to Pat's opinion that that is not the case. I would suggest that your opinion is, at least, less believable than Pat's on this matter since you seem to believe what you say above.
I am perfectly happy to accept that my opinion is less believable than Pat's; however, it is not at all clear to me why that is automatically entailed by what I wrote above. The real question is whether PC's Balti Curry Cookbook is (by definition) about BIR cuisine, and I argue that it is on the following two bases :
1) The sub-title is "The exciting new curry technique". Note the word "new". Not "The exciting curry technique practiced for centuries in the until-now-unheard-of region called Baltistan". "New". "New" because Balti curries appear in Britain in 1977, and were starting to become famous by 1982. Pat's book is dated 1993.
2) In his FAQ, Pat writes :
Q13. Does Balti Exist
A lot of people, Indians in particular, wish you to believe it does not. It is not helped by the fact that in Hindi, the word Balti means a cast iron slop pot or bucket. More significantly, it originated in Pakistan, no friend of India. It was not helped in Britain either, because it came to light in Birmingham, not in mighty London, where the national press is based.
These Are Facts
In the high mountains of north Pakistan, is the ancient state of Baltistan, (latitude 36?E, longitude 74?N). It is part of Pakistan
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Fair enough :)
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Hi
I fancy a proper balti now.
Regards
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I recently gave this book to a charity shop in Lanarkshire along with a load of other curry books. I wonder if you bought my old copy. Anyway don't bother with Pat's base sauce recipe if you are looking for the BIR taste, he was clearly making most of it up as he went along to sell books. I tried it twenty years ago and was disappointed. Pick any of the highly rated bases from this site and you will be much happier. I have tried most from here and although the recipes look different they all produce a very similar tasting base.
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I don't think any of the bases on this site qualify as a "Balti" base, though, right? What if you want something else?
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Speaking of books, sorry to help derailing the thread a little bit more.
I just saw this bargain. 10eur for 5 curry books (second hand, but looking ok).
http://www.adverts.ie/food-and-drink/5-great-curry-cookery-books/2867921 (http://www.adverts.ie/food-and-drink/5-great-curry-cookery-books/2867921)
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It would be interesting and informative to hear your reply to Pat's opinion that that is not the case. I would suggest that your opinion is, at least, less believable than Pat's on this matter since you seem to believe what you say above.
I am perfectly happy to accept that my opinion is less believable than Pat's; however, it is not at all clear to me why that is automatically entailed by what I wrote above. The real question is whether PC's Balti Curry Cookbook is (by definition) about BIR cuisine, and I argue that it is on the following two bases :
1) The sub-title is "The exciting new curry technique". Note the word "new". Not "The exciting curry technique practiced for centuries in the until-now-unheard-of region called Baltistan". "New". "New" because Balti curries appear in Britain in 1977, and were starting to become famous by 1982. Pat's book is dated 1993.
2) In his FAQ, Pat writes :
Q13. Does Balti Exist
A lot of people, Indians in particular, wish you to believe it does not. It is not helped by the fact that in Hindi, the word Balti means a cast iron slop pot or bucket. More significantly, it originated in Pakistan, no friend of India. It was not helped in Britain either, because it came to light in Birmingham, not in mighty London, where the national press is based.
These Are Facts
In the high mountains of north Pakistan, is the ancient state of Baltistan, (latitude 36?E, longitude 74?N). It is part of Pakistan
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So, dear Phil, would you care to reconsider your previous comments, and indeed, confirm where you are in the West Midlands.
With pleasure, my dear Garp : formerly Smethwick (Marshall Street, right next door to the church), now happily retired to the depths of deepest Kent. As to the new facts, I am deeply indebted to you. Thank you for drawing them to my attention.
** Phil (eschewing prolixity, for once).
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No probs mate - in this tennis season should we call it 15 all? :)
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Balti feature from BBC Good Food magazine from 20+ years ago, courtesy of our very own Petrolhead:
http://youtu.be/fMXrQhMYj7Y (http://youtu.be/fMXrQhMYj7Y)
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Sorry but didn't watch it when I saw Lenny Henry was in it.
To me, Lenny Henry is to comedy what Pat Chapman is to curry :(
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OK, so I recognise Lenny Henry, but who is the Simon-and-Garfunkel look-alike ?
** Phil.
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OK, so I recognise Lenny Henry, but who is the Simon-and-Garfunkel look-alike ?
** Phil.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/chefs/john_burton_race (http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/chefs/john_burton_race)
and on the subject of lookalikes, my brother sent me this earlier. ;D ;D
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/12ba574db1b77dbf755aa306340f018f.jpg)
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Another,TV celebrity Chef, trained under R.Blanc, he used to be on TV quite often.
He once did a quick curry from scratch, which was surprisingly good for a Michelin starred Chef
http://www.johnburtonrace.tv/ (http://www.johnburtonrace.tv/)
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I'd love to have seen the making of that rich darkish Balti sauce that Lenny had clearly been given by a local restaurant to start the cooking with. And the "garlic and flour" what was that? Garlic powder? If so there was a helluva lot, maybe this is the "something addictive" referred to by the lady who ate 9 Baltis in 2 weeks.
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The balti sauce in the Lenny vid looks a bit similar to the Glasgow gloop. Interesting. Reckon it's time I re-visited the Kushi balti house, it's been a while.
Rob :)
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And the "garlic and flour" what was that? Garlic powder?
I picked up on that too
I watched that detail three times
I reckon that's garlic powder
It's a bit weird though, isn't it?
I don't see how the spices could be cooked out?
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9 Baltis in 2 weeks.......That's not addictive, that's being a lightweight.
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Hi
That balti looked amazzzzzing.
Regards
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Yes, I'm not sure they make them like that any more.