Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: goncalo on May 20, 2013, 12:04 PM
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As I've generally always stuck to chicken, this is an area where I feel I need to learn more about. What your favorite cuts of beef/lamb and how do you precook them?
Thanks
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just to try and spice up the question a little. I know some people prefer to buy cheaper cuts of meat and then cook them for longer periods of time until they are tender. On a cooking tips book, I read 'chuck' is very good for stews/saucy foods, which I would generally interpret as being good for curries too.
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I find lamb is the most difficult meat to curry.
I find that, in general, unless I marinate it with spices and something acidic (i.e. lemon juice) and quickly sear it before cooking the fat ends up departing a bloody awful tallowy taste into the sauce. This seems to be regardless of the cut used.
Another way I've found that works is to cook lamb on-the-bone in a pre-prepared curry sauce. The onions used in the sauce need to be well caramelised beforehand and the lamb needs to sit, refrigerated, in the sauce for a few hours before cooking. Just place the whole lot - covered - in an oven on a low heat for two to three hours. This doesn't really seem to work with lamb off-the-bone which ends up tasting like normal stewed lamb in a curry sauce.
I find the easiest option is to marinate diced lamb leg in a tikka marinade and cook ideally on a barbecue or under a high grill. Once cooked just drop it in the sauce. It will not be as tender this way, though.
The same seems to apply - to a lesser degree - to cheaper cuts of beef. I suppose this is why most keemas contain potato - I imagine the potato helps draw the fat out of the finished sauce.
I could just be doing it wrong of course.
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Had some success recently with proper Mutton ( leg in this case ). having boned it all out I pre cooked in all the usual stuff for 3 hours. I think this was a mistake as it was probably too tender if there is such a thing and a good third fell apart too much when prepared in the final dish. VERY tasty though.
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I find lamb easy to be honest.In fact I find lamb easier than chicken! I bought 2 packs of diced lamb from Asda last week. All I do is pour about half a cup of oil into a pan, add some G&G paste, a couple of black cardamums (optional), half a dozen bay leaves, 4 or 5 cloves, 8 - 10 green cardamums, a nice piece of cassia bark (or a cinnamon stick), teaspoon of curry leaves (optional), 2 tsp salt and 2 tsp spice mix. Then I turn the heat up to medium until everything is sizzling well. Fill the kettle up full, tip the meat into the saucepan, whack the heat up to high, stir and brown the meat in the oil, pour the boiling water from the kettle to cover the meat well, and simmer for 90 minutes. Sometimes a scum forms on the top. Just ignore it. It will have disappeared before the time is up anyway.I do sometimes substitute the cassia for star anise.
Chicken on the other hand is far more hit and miss IMO.
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Thanks for all your contributions to this thread, some good information.
Chicken on the other hand is far more hit and miss IMO.
I recommend you this recipe, which to me is nearly always spot-on: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11787.0/topicseen.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11787.0/topicseen.html)
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Thanks for all your contributions to this thread, some good information.
I recommend you this recipe, which to me is nearly always spot-on: http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11787.0/topicseen.html (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11787.0/topicseen.html)
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Thanks. I will give it a try
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I'm planning on making squid madras tonight! Has anyone any tips for how to pre-cook squid?
My mom used to cook the squid with 1 large onion, 2 tbsp of olive oil, salt and 1 tsp of sugar + 2x200g packets of tomato pulp for about 45 mins or until tender. I've found the tip on the internet about using kiwi to tenderize the squid, so I've started on that already. Any kind tips?
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You can a also use milk to tenderize squid. It's a bit easier to find than kiwi fruit juice :)
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You can a also use milk to tenderize squid. It's a bit easier to find than kiwi fruit juice :)
I also came across the milk, but I read somewhere that with a kiwi it takes minutes and the people who suggested marinating them in milk didn't supply a base time :)
Thanks for your tip! the squid is in the pan right now and I've followed my mom's method :-)
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I have a strange feeling that squid might be one of those meats that softens twice, and goes hard/rubbery in between. I have /never/ cooked squid for more than a few minutes at absolute most; as soon as it turns translucent and starts to curl, I take it out and serve it, at which point it is deliciously tender.
** Phil.
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I have a strange feeling that squid might be one of those meats that softens twice, and goes hard/rubbery in between. I have /never/ cooked squid for more than a few minutes at absolute most; as soon as it turns translucent and starts to curl, I take it out and serve it, at which point it is deliciously tender.
** Phil.
Aye, I had to have a good think about squid in a curry. I think its lovely (along with most other food) and done nicely its definitely not the battered rubber bands you get in Benidorm. I've got a Slow Cooked Squid in Spicy tomato sauce to try from that Italian bloke whose name escapes me of the TV. Plus if you get it at sainsburys, its expensive.
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The concept of squid as battered squid (I like the "rubber band", as in some places its what you get) is quite uncommon in my country (or was when I lived there) and seems to be quite common in Ireland, UK and US. I am not a big fan of fish or its smell. The only way for me to eat squid was if the sea/fishy taste would be sublime, so my granny/mother would boil it in tomato sauce for a long period. Their recipe is extremely simple:
1 large onion sliced thinly into a sauce pan
2 tbsp of olive oil
2 packets of tomato pulp
1 bag of frozen/clean squid
Add onions and olive oil and heat until the onions start to go golden
Add the tomato
Add the squid
boil for approx. 45 mins on medium heat, mix/scrape now and then as the onion may stick to the bottom.
Now, the squid was indeed very tender, not rubbery at all, but the flavours didn't infuse fully. Not to the same depth of flavour that my mom/granny can get. I decided not to cook the madras sauce tonight and let squid infuse the flavours just by being dipped into the sauce.
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I'm planning on making squid madras tonight! Has anyone any tips for how to pre-cook squid?
Hardly BIR, or am i in the wrong place??
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I'm planning on making squid madras tonight! Has anyone any tips for how to pre-cook squid?
Hardly BIR, or am i in the wrong place??
It's not BIR indeed, but it's a type of meat that requires precooking as it takes too long for flavours to infuse
The recipe above is just an attempt at a "precooking method" to try and remove as much fish flavor as possible that has been used by my family to make pukka squid. I wanted to change this thread topic to meat/fish instead of leaving it at beef/lamb. I will however do a madras BIR today to go with the squid.
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Hardly BIR, or am i in the wrong place??
It's hardly the first time we've strayed from the BIR format. Personally I just never thought I'd see squid and madras in the same sentence! ;D
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(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/2b02f0cdf0bc17b9ed396d0e713b7d1b.png)
My sister once had a potato croquette korma from a TA up north. ;D
What difference does it make if a BIR or forum member wants to use a different main ingredient?
There's more to curry than just chicken or lamb. ;)
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Where lamb is listed I'd put money its 99% mutton instead. More flavour and cheaper.
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Where lamb is listed I'd put money its 99% mutton instead. More flavour and cheaper.
I agree about the flavour, but not about the cheapness. Because of the low demand for mutton it is not widely available, and where it is sold, frequently commands a premium price.
** Phil.
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Prefer mutton myself. Good deal on the lamb here though. Large portion. 10 % discount on takeaway as well.
(http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/imagehost/pics/8b09a7c2c03a8804943551c68970fbbc.jpg)
Rob :)
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Prefer mutton myself. Good deal on the lamb here though. Large portion. 10 % discount on takeaway as well.
Hmmm. Good markup as well, methinks !
** Phil.
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A new vid for pre-cooked lamb by CBM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwUjmRk_goQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwUjmRk_goQ)
Rob :)
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mickdabass,
have just got to the point that i'd like to try lamb and have noted your recipe - many thanks.
have you tried lamb tikka.
i ask as i think the pre cook is probably the best way to go but i feel i would make the tikka more if i could get it as good as chicken tikka. any thoughts appreciated. i think 976bar was on to it a while ago and might need to search that out too.
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mickdabass,
have just got to the point that i'd like to try lamb and have noted your recipe - many thanks.
have you tried lamb tikka.
i ask as i think the pre cook is probably the best way to go but i feel i would make the tikka more if i could get it as good as chicken tikka. any thoughts appreciated. i think 976bar was on to it a while ago and might need to search that out too.
Hi JerryM
In answer to your question - Yes I have tried Lamb Tikka.
I cooked some last night actually.
The frazzled lamb fat was divine!
More successful than my seekh kebabs that slowly slid down the skewer and proceeded to collapse and fall to their incendary doom in the bottom of the tandoor lol :'(
I have tried many different methods of tikkarising lamb but with varying success. The pre-cook is a definite no-no I'm afraid. The marinade does not penetrate the meat at all. I have also tried mixing the raw lamb with finely sliced Korola or bitter melon for 24 hours. This appeared to have little effect. Other options worth exploring may be to liquidize yellow kiwi fruit and add this to the marinade.
My next experiment will involve a tenderising mallet lol 8) 8) 8)
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The pre-cook is a definite no-no I'm afraid. The marinade does not penetrate the meat at all. I have also tried mixing the raw lamb with finely sliced Korola or bitter melon for 24 hours. This appeared to have little effect. Other options worth exploring may be to liquidize yellow kiwi fruit and add this to the marinade.
Did someone suggest precooking the lamb before marinating it? If so...CRAZY! It'll never work.
The bitter melon is called Karela by the way. Better options that are used in traditional Indian cooking are green (unripe) papaya and kokum. Or you could try the Chinese way and marinade the lamb in sodium bicarbonate, otherwise known as baking soda or bicarbonate of soda.
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Yes, some manufacters add papain to their tandoori mixes. Sounds very interesting.
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mickdabass,
many thanks for feedback.
i visited my local asian store today and chatted with the manger who i know well about my quest. he wished me best of luck.
he did say restaurants buy a tenderiser and he will get for me if i need. after much discussion i bought 2 off slices of mutton leg across the bone (it appears it's not a good time to buy at moment in uk with high price at 10?/kg).
1 off slice has been cubed and marinated in mustard oil
1 off slice cubed and marinated in thick "live" set yogurt (ps 1st time i've bought and made mint raita for tea and loved the stuff - same as used by my local restaurant)
going to give both 3 days then add in the rest of iffu tikka ingredients then hopefully 3 days more and then bbq.
on the bbq front going to slow cook intially as the owner was persistent that lamb takes much longer to cook than chicken. will then blast it for the last say 3 mins per side (12 min in total). for the slow cook i'm thinking 7 min per side (but will depend on watching how the heat rises)
going to hold off other "methods" for the moment
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:o Personally i'd be a bit concerned about having meat sitting in the fridge for six days before i cooked it, especially as it's so expensive. Hope it works out ok Jerry. Keep us posted on your results.
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mickdabass,
many thanks for feedback.
i visited my local asian store today and chatted with the manger who i know well about my quest. he wished me best of luck.
he did say restaurants buy a tenderiser and he will get for me if i need. after much discussion i bought 2 off slices of mutton leg across the bone (it appears it's not a good time to buy at moment in uk with high price at 10?/kg).
1 off slice has been cubed and marinated in mustard oil
1 off slice cubed and marinated in thick "live" set yogurt (ps 1st time i've bought and made mint raita for tea and loved the stuff - same as used by my local restaurant)
going to give both 3 days then add in the rest of iffu tikka ingredients then hopefully 3 days more and then bbq.
on the bbq front going to slow cook intially as the owner was persistent that lamb takes much longer to cook than chicken. will then blast it for the last say 3 mins per side (12 min in total). for the slow cook i'm thinking 7 min per side (but will depend on watching how the heat rises)
going to hold off other "methods" for the moment
Be careful if you ever use kiwi for marinading lamb Jerry and anyone else wanting to do a long marinade, i.e. over 24 hours.
I tried just after christmas with 2kg of diced leg and half a mashed kiwi in with the rest of the tikka ingredients for 48 hours and the meat came out very "pappy" after cooking.
No bite at all and more like cubes of pulled meat but, with a graininess to it i didnt much like.
As far as tenderising goes, it works too well. Worth experimenting with though.
Cheers, Frank. :)
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curryhell,
yes for sure - this is new ground for me. my norm is 3 days for chicken and have done this for years. i'm going on the smell - if that changes then it won't go to end.
i do think i'm passed the critical stage as the acid will go in now (the tikka marinade) the 3 days or yoghurt and mustard oil now being up today.
DalPuri - the kewi sound a very good back up strategy - many thanks
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the lamb tikka ended up rubbish and i've abandoned the interest. the meat was too tuff and the tikka taste too strong.
i tried the kiwi on pork souvlaki and adopted for future general use.
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I have Ranjit Rai's Tandoor Book
And just looked at the Lamb tikka recipes and all have raw papaya paste as a tenderiser
sometimes mixed with lemon but mostly with yogurt
Marination time 8 hours
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the lamb tikka ended up rubbish and i've abandoned the interest. the meat was too tuff and the tikka taste too strong.
Not tried making lamb tikka myself, Jerry, but lamb as an ingredient of Indian food is not something I would want to abandon. I had two chicken birianies and one lamb birany in Abu Dhabi last week (well, one was actually on a flight out of Abu Dhabi), and the lamb biryani knocked the chicken biryanies into a cocked hat.
** Phil.
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michael.t/Phil,
the papaya is something i'd not come across but sounds good. the yogurt would sit well with what i've seen.
very much agree unlikely to abandon but feel i need to focus on mains for a while as these have more gain. the lamb (tikka) needs too much work to get right.
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I bought half-kg of diced beef and I was thinking to use it in a curry. Does anyone have any advice on how to pre-cook this in terms of cooking timings and any other tips you may find useful
n.b: I've never had a curry with beef before.
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For anyone interested, I used the same recipe I use to precook chicken, but with beef instead and cooked for about 30mins (didn't time it) and added a knorr rich beef stock.
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added a knorr rich beef stock.
Stock pot or cube, Goncalo ?
** Phil.
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added a knorr rich beef stock.
Stock pot or cube, Goncalo ?
** Phil.
stock pot.
N.B: I didn't try it yet, it was too late at night and will probably only try it tomorrow :)