Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: diverdil on May 07, 2013, 10:51 PM
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ok a very complex question.
we are all not completely happy with our curries. many of us have reached maybe if lucky 90% a few maybe 95% but I do not believe anyone has reached 100% curry perfection.
I believe the reason for this is we do not completely understand the spices we use. we have grown up with mixed herbs, basil, parsley and thyme. in fact after watching all the Jamie oliver shows we know completely what these European herbs do
but my question is what does each spice bring to a meal?
why use turmeric? we all know it brings a nice yellow colour, right?
why use coriander? tastes nice but what does it bring to a dish?
why use methi? every recipe seems to use it but what does it do?
we all know that chilli powder brings heat but what else does it bring?
and lets not forget garam masala. this is a complete mixture most of us know very little about.
we seem to be playing with all these amazing spices but the truth is its all alchemy to us. maybe we need to step back and learn what they all do and how they add depth and flavour to a meal
we try and blame the base mix for our failings but most mixes are so similar. many spice mixes are very much the same. I honestly think the key is in the spices and how we mix them together
could it be down to just we use the wrong brands?
just my theory and wonder what you think?
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Hi diverdil!
It's true, it doesn't come down to some fancy blend of 50 different spices, but to the knowledge of what, when and, most importantly, why. Actually, I like to use less spices, but the right ones.
Turmeric adds colour, that's right, but it gets used for its health and preservative properties, too. It also balances the flavour. Coriander will thicken the sauce, and adds some unique fruity flavour (besides anti-inflammatory properties). Fenugreek seeds are actually a sort of legumes, but get often used as a spice because of their strong flavour (and health properties, too). They prefer kashmiri chili powder in some dishes (tandoori, e.g.), because it also adds a nice, earthy flavour. Chilis provide you also with vitamin C (but are no traditional indian spice). Garam masala is based, you could say, like indian spicing in general, on the ayurvedic system. (the six different tastes, and so on) Cloves and cinnamon oil is said to kill all bacteria.
Indian desserts are full of sugar, because this will prevent them going off too fast. (especially in that climate) But I prefer jaggery, brown sugar, palm sugar or honey, because they all add flavour and body, while ordinary white, refined sugar will just add sweetness. (unrefined sugars are healthier, too) That wasn't part of your original question, although it somehow shows what I mean (:
Greetings!
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thanks for your ideas chonk
what I actually was kind of trying to say was we don't really understand the tastes and what they bring to a dish. ok if its mild we know that if we add chilli it will become less mild. but what does each flavour bring?
ok so I sound completely nuts but last night I set about tasting the spices I have. I want to understand what is missing so my idea is if I know the taste I will know what else to add.
I use seasoned oil, a good base, a good spice mix, good pans and a good spoon. all authentic materials but still i'm not reaching perfection.
I am convinced its down to the spices, either quantity or brands. I can make a tarka dhal and I can honestly say I have hit 100%. texture and taste perfect. I know this uses very little spice but proves cooking ability is right.
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I am convinced its down to the spices, either quantity or brands.
I'm not.
I'm convinced it's down to the ability, experience, understanding and technique of the person cooking them.
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each to our own opinions then spicey
I have over time collected over 100 videos. I have practiced many over and over again. my benchmark was a dhansak. I mirrored exactly everything being done on the mick Crawford Indian restaurant video. I even copied it to the times and the exact points I put the ingredients in. same pan, same spoon and cooking on a very good gas cooker. I have made this over 50 times and yes it is an amazing tasty curry but its missing something. the taste is not 100% of a BIR. something is lacking. I'm a very good cook and understand cooking very well so I will not except its the cook error this far into the experiment.
I am trying to work this out spicey so please expand on your reasoning and explain why its not the spices whether brand or amounts
thanks
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I am trying to work this out spicey so please expand on your reasoning and explain why its not the spices whether brand or amounts
That's easy.
Because they're the same brands/spices/amounts as used in your average BIR Kitchen.
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we all use completely different brands. I use natco as that's what is for sale in my Asian shop. many use rajah. I have tasted same product different brand and they have tasted completely different
try the difference between natco and rajah garam masala. completely different
it seems there are so many people willing to say no that's not it, your wrong but very few willing to try and expand and offer help. we are all striving for the same goal yet so many not wanting to offer help and work it out
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Because they're the same brands/spices/amounts as used in your average BIR Kitchen.
Ah yes, but which spices exactly? The devil's in the detail don't you know.
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we all use completely different brands. I use natco as that's what is for sale in my Asian shop. many use rajah. I have tasted same product different brand and they have tasted completely different
Yes we do all use different brands but why should that make any difference? Ground turmeric from Natco is exactly the same as ground turmeric from Rajah, TRS, West End, etc. Likewise ground coriander, cumin, fenugreek and so on. Or are you suggesting that somehow Natco use a different turmeric to Rajah?
try the difference between natco and rajah garam masala. completely different
Of course Garam Masala will differ significantly from one brand to another because it's a spice mixture and not one single spice, I would have thought that was fairly self evident?
In any case very few BIR's actually use Garam Masala, so why do you raise it here as an issue? Those BIR's that do actually use Garam Masala will probably make up their own from whole spices, so how is that going to help you?
it seems there are so many people willing to say no that's not it, your wrong but very few willing to try and expand and offer help. we are all striving for the same goal yet so many not wanting to offer help and work it out
This is just tosh.
So, because I disagree with you, I'm not being helpful?
I've given you my reasons for why I believe spices are not the issue - BIR's use exactly the same spices and brands of spices that we have access to. Not only that, we have mix powder recipes as used in BIR kitchens.
Yet that's still not convincing enough for you? You're just grasping at straws in my opinion.
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Although a BIR is likely to go through the spides quicker.
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spiceyokooko you have a terrible attitude. I am a new member to the forum yet you write in a negative manner to me. in fact I would go so far as to say hostile. I am just trying to learn. I am trying to push what I am doing to another level yet people like you make me want to quit the site.
a complete waste of time posting
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Hi diverdil! (:
thanks for your ideas chonk
what I actually was kind of trying to say was we don't really understand the tastes and what they bring to a dish. ok if its mild we know that if we add chilli it will become less mild. but what does each flavour bring?
Well, Hing for example, will be added to substitute onions, garlic or ginger, and to make your dishes easier to digest. The same is true for kasoori methi, but it adds its own unique flavour, too. It's widely used in the punjabi cuisine (the name comes from the same called city in modern Pakistan), where most of the popular indian dishes, that western restaurants serve, are derived from. Sometimes a spice is used because of the region that dish comes from, like the people of Amritsar for example, that like to add some ajwain seeds (that work very well with fish, but are also great with potatoes or pulses).
If you want to enhance the earthy flavour of a dish, try black cardamom, garlic, kashmiri chili or paprika, for example. If you want more sour notes, try amchoor, chaat, tamarind or lemon juice. Sugar or honey if it's the opposite case.
It's about what spices to use for which ingredients, to enhance the flavour of every single one of them. Anybody who cooks indian (no matter if it's home-style or BIR), should read a little about spices from time to time. Mostly, it's pretty fascinating stuff, and entertaining history lessons, too (:
Greetings!
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spiceyokooko you have a terrible attitude. I am a new member to the forum yet you write in a negative manner to me. in fact I would go so far as to say hostile. I am just trying to learn.
Why do you think I have a negative attitude when I've simply disagreed with what you've said? Am I not allowed to disagree with you?
My opinions are based on what I believe, and I will express that belief to someone whether they've been here 10 seconds or 10 years. Those beliefs have been built up over about 30 years of cooking Indian Cuisine, both 'homestyle' and 'BIR-style'. That in itself doesn't make me an expert by any means, but it does mean I've got some experience of cooking this style of cuisine and the ingredients that go into it.
Sadly, you've chosen not to continue the discussion based on what I've said and my reasons for holding those beliefs and gone off into a 'flounce' instead because someone's disagreed with you.
Please feel free to continue your belief that the missing x% of your BIR style dishes is all down to the different brands of spices used and ignore everything I've said as it seems a barrier to you 'trying to learn'.
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spiceyokooko you have a terrible attitude.
Get a grip dude. Just have a look at your own comment and question yourself if you aren't really full of attitude yourself.
it seems there are so many people willing to say no that's not it, your wrong but very few willing to try and expand and offer help. we are all striving for the same goal yet so many not wanting to offer help and work it out
Is that having a proper attitude, to ask for help and yet make remarks about the lengths people are willing to help you?
To put it simply: garam massala (or any other massala you can buy in your asian) will vary between brand A, B and C. The reason being that there are several variations of garam masala, tandoori masala, curry powder, etc as these are mixes or blends of one or more main spices. The main spices don't vary between brands substantially. The thing that you can take as a granted common for garam masala is that most GMs contain fragant/aromatic ingredients such as bay leaf, cassia bark, cloves, cardamoms (green and/or black). Now, not all of them will include fennel, or star aniseed, or this, or that. The ratios will probably not match the competitors. Besides, Natco is sort of badmouthed as a brand for garam masala, I seem to recall some posts around here (though I only use east end gm occasionally)
Also, realize that for as much as you can watch a video and think "you know how to do it", you can never be sure that the dhansak the chef cooked at the time came out any good or any different from your experiments at home (chances are that it did) because no matter what, anyone in the food biz will always pretend and say something along the lines of "delicious" and even when no one makes a mention, that's the implied (and sublime) message they try to convey. Things you may want to consider is whether your equipment (cooker, frying pans), your "fire power" and your techniques are right. Even then no one guarantees you will be nailing it like your favourite BIR, but will you recognize your outcomes anywhere near the bottom average TA? If so that is some progress.
Good luck and take it easy.
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spiceyokooko you have a terrible attitude. I am a new member to the forum yet you write in a negative manner to me. in fact I would go so far as to say hostile. I am just trying to learn. I am trying to pus#h what I am doing to another level yet people like you make me want to quit the site.
Which would be a great shame, because your opening post in this thread asks exactly the questions that we all need to ask if ever we are to rise from "monkey see, monkey do" to "monkey think, monkey create". As regards others' attitudes, I am afraid that it is a sad fact of life that not everyone expresses themselves in the same way; in my experience it is best to simply ignore those who contribute only negatively and focus on the many positive replies that you will receive. Easier said than done, I know, but well worth the effort and the forum can only benefit as a result.
** Phil.