Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Peripatetic Phil on April 28, 2013, 10:58 PM
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Inspired by my efforts with Anjum Anand's Rustic Rogan Josh (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,11868.msg94474/topicseen.html#msg94474) last night, I set out tonight to replicate the methodology but starting from scratch. I started by finely chopping 2 1/2 brown onions and then frying them in spiced oil in the wok until they were starting to colour, then added some faux cinnamon, crushed green cardamom, curry leaves, methi leaves, torn Indian bay and some kala jeera. When all seemed nicely fried, I added a good tablespoon of g/g paste, fried that until it too seemed done, then added the lamb. I then quickly removed it again because I realised I hadn't yet cut it into curry-sized pieces ! Once cut it went back in the pan and was fried in the sauteed onions and whole masala until it started to brown. Over the next few minutes I added and fried two teaspoons of turmeric, three of Kashmiri mirch, two of cumin and two of methi. And plenty of sea salt. As I was frying the ground spices they started to stick, so I kept freeing them by adding more oil and/or some of yesterday's lamb stock. When all was properly fried I added the remainder of the stock (not a lot : maybe half a cup), stirred well, put on the lid, turned the power down to 20%, and then cooked for a further 1H30, stirring every now and then. The taste changed quite dramatically during the 1H30, from one in which the flavour and heat of the Kashmiri mirch completely predominated to a quite different, fully integrated, rich pleasant spicy flavour. Having just tried a piece of the lamb, I realise that 1H30 isn't sufficient for the 450gm of lamb that I cooked (last night was only 300gm), so it has just gone back on for at least another 30 minutes. All in all, a very successful experiment, and one which I will undoubtedly repeat : whilst BIR-style has enormous benefits in terms of economy of time when cooking a chicken-based dish, lamb requires so long that the benefits of a pre-cooked base seem to me to be completely lost.
** Phil.
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Hi Phil (:
Is there a reason for adding the whole spices (cinnamon, black cumin, etc.) after the onions?
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Hi Phil (:
Is there a reason for adding the whole spices (cinnamon, black cumin, etc.) after the onions?
Just instinct, and not based on any research. It seemed to me that traditional Indian food has to start somewhere, and browned onions seemed a logical place to start to me. Do you think I should have fried the whole masala for (say) 20 seconds (as per Anjum Anand) before adding the onions, and if I had done so, do you think I would have detected the difference in the final dish ?
** Phil.
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Interesting report Phil. :)
whilst BIR-style has enormous benefits in terms of economy of time when cooking a chicken-based dish, lamb requires so long that the benefits of a pre-cooked base seem to me to be completely lost.
Surely this is why you would pre-cook the lamb, hence not needing long to cook the final curry.
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Hi Phil! (:
Just instinct, and not based on any research. It seemed to me that traditional Indian food has to start somewhere, and browned onions seemed a logical place to start to me. Do you think I should have fried the whole masala for (say) 20 seconds (as per Anjum Anand) before adding the onions, and if I had done so, do you think I would have detected the difference in the final dish ?
** Phil.
Hoped you could tell me that ;P
I do know of at least one cooking book, where the author adds cumin and whole spices after the onions too, but that seemed relatively new to me. But I guess if there is a difference, it's minimal. (but I'm not sure) I will try that out! (always started with some whole spices first)
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Surely this is why you would pre-cook the lamb, hence not needing long to cook the final curry.
Yes, if you use pre-cooked lamb and pre-made base then you can indeed make a lamb curry in much the same time as you could make a chicken one; I was just thinking in terms of having raw lamb v. raw chicken, where for the latter a base-based curry is obviously beneficial (in terms of speed) whereas for the former I don't think it offers any real advantages.
** Phil.
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I would have added the whole spices first but would have kept back on the black cumin until adding the onions. I can't say I have evidence that this would change the dish but I it would ensure the whole spices are cooked evenly in the oil, rather than nestled between the onions, if you see what I mean. The black cumin I would have added just before adding the onions as I find it goes past it's best if left in oil too long.
Overall, your conclusion is much to my way of thinking these days. If your going to spend 2 hours making a base and another 40 minutes pre-cooking meat, you might as well make a traditional curry. We rarely cook more than one dish to eat between us anyway, adding sides of course. I've been compiling a list of traditional recipes from Indian sites that I am going to try over the coming months.
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Hi everyone,
I work with Anjum Anand and she has given me some tips for cooking the perfect Rustic Rogan Josh which I thought you might all find useful! (Please see below)
Firstly, using lamb rump or well trimmed neck fillets will change your cooking time for a bought sauce to about 6 minutes and the meat is still tender. Using pieces of leg or shoulder will take longer but the flavour is better and it is cheaper.
There are so many ways to cook Indian food but frying your spices first will help bring out their best flavour which will permeate the whole dish.
I hope that helps!
Annabel
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I work with Anjum Anand and she has given me some tips for cooking the perfect Rustic Rogan Josh which I thought you might all find useful!
So, the two tips you've shared with us to help us make the 'perfect rustic Rogan Josh' are 1/ that lamb neck fillet/rump should cook in about 6 minutes (not in my experience, it takes a lot longer and leg/shoulder will take significantly longer) and that 2/ we should 'fry spices first' to bring out their flavour?
::)
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I'm guessing the 6 is a typo and should be 60. And frying spices eh, who'd have thunk it?
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I work with Anjum Anand and she has given me some tips for cooking the perfect Rustic Rogan Josh which I thought you might all find useful! (Please see below)
Firstly, using lamb rump or well trimmed neck fillets will change your cooking time for a bought sauce to about 6 minutes and the meat is still tender. Using pieces of leg or shoulder will take longer but the flavour is better and it is cheaper.
There are so many ways to cook Indian food but frying your spices first will help bring out their best flavour which will permeate the whole dish.
Thank you, Annabel. Can you please confirm that you did indeed mean to type "6 minutes" and not "16 minutes" or "60 minutes" in the anticipated time needed to cook lamb rump or well-trimmed neck fillets ? This seems an exceptionally short time to me, and would also not really allow the lamb to take up the flavour from the spices ...
** Phil.
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I have used both rump and neck fillets extensively over the years. Rump cut into suitable bite sized pieces will certainly cook in no time at all and is my preferred choice for kebabs for this reason. Neck fillet can vary, I have had very good quality fillet from butchers that does cook very quickly but from supermarkets, I generally find that it needs a long slow cook.
Mind you, I also wonder at times as to whether what supermarkets say is neck fillet is actually, shoulder fillet. ASDA changed labels almost over night from neck fillet to shoulder fillet, yet the meat within the packet looked very much the same. Buyer beware.
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I have used both rump and neck fillets extensively over the years. Rump cut into suitable bite sized pieces will certainly cook in no time at all and is my preferred choice for kebabs for this reason.
Would you agree, Malc, that lamb (and rump in particular) actually has two quite different modes of cooking; there is the state of cooking that it achieves after a very short time, in which it is cooked and tender with a very light texture, and then as one continues to cook, it starts to harden and go more firm, to the point where it becomes virtually unchewable, and then, if one continues to cook it. it once agains starts to soften and acquire a more fibrous texture that after further cooking become optimally soft and finally start to break up ?
** Phil.
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I can't answer that based on my experiences Phil, as I only ever use rump for short cooking. Though I would certainly agree that this has been the case with certain neck fillets I have tried. As with most dark meats though, I imagine that it would indeed become tough and then begin to soften again, as cooking time continues.
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I have eaten this many times all over India, they almost always used goat meat, on the bone and marinated over night. The real thing is excellent albeit more bone than meat most of the time.
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I have eaten this many times all over India, they almost always used goat meat, on the bone and marinated over night. The real thing is excellent albeit more bone than meat most of the time.
What exactly is it that you have eaten. CK ? Is it a traditional Indian goat curry, or something else ?
** Phil.
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What exactly is it that you have eaten. CK ? Is it a traditional Indian goat curry, or something else ?
** Phil.
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I've had goat rogan josh, vindaloo, jalfriezi and many others, many times across the width and breadth of India. I've eaten less known dishes including mutton Hydrabadi, mutton Chilli Fry and many others which I can't remember off the top of my head. I always keep the menus from the restaurants and tick off what I've had. Will find them up and let you know what they are. You would have never heard of most of them.