Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: goncalo on March 16, 2013, 02:32 AM
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I have been using C2G (w/o bassar) and so far I'm OK with it, it's not great, but I seem to have cling to it for some odd reason. CA's mix powder is decent as well. However, I would like to hear comments on other mix powders from the rest of ye.
I'm particularly curious about a few mix-powders, namely:
* kushi
* ifindforu's TA
* zaal
Though, I haven't made/tried any of them.
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I normally mix up the spice mix to go with whoever's recipe it belongs to
But the other day I simply used East End's Mild Madras spice mix
And it was brilliant
For ,at least a little while, this will be my spicing of choice
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Zaal is good, if not the best IMHO - why because its simple and doesnt require anything you can't buy in the high street - do make it with home made garam massala though
Also don't loose sight of the base ingredients aswell.
By having the best mix doesn't mean it will work with the base, I've chopped and changed mix powders and bases chasing the 'holy grail' as we all do.
Certainly on the other forum I spent 3 years doing exactly this and tbh ended up almost where I started - confussed as to why I couldnt serve up a dish that tasted of BIR
Don't forget in the T/A environment spice mixes are simple, and I know from my local they use Natco over say Rajah due to cost - however you still get that taste we all look for from there dishes!
There base is simple aswell so it has to be down to the technique used by the chef
So best advise is - select a mix powder - select a base and develop them together.
Knowing what I know now, its 80% technique/experience and 20% ingredients - here's my take on it
5 tbsp - Curry powder - Rajah Gold Madras
4 tbsp - Turmeric powder
4 tbsp - Coriander powder
3 tbsp - Cumin powder
1 tbsp - Garam masala
1 tbsp - dried methi
1/2 tbsp - Kashmiri Chilli powder
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I use the following, which I think is basically IFF but I might've altered it along the way, I can't remember:
5 curry powder
5 turmeric
3 coriander
3 cumin
2 paprika
1 garam masala
0.33 chilli
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Hi Goncalo,
I use the IG Spice Mix (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,4442.msg40687.html#msg40687) as the chef has been cooking BIR since the early 70's. The food he produces is the standard by which I judge all others and it is second to none.
Each dish they produce has it's very own character which I believe is down to his old school philosophy to keep the base, mix powder, etc. simple to enable maximum control of flavour for the individual dishes they produce.
Many of the old school procedures, techniques and preparations have been consolidated in the modern version of BIR, to make it easier or should I say less time consuming. The down side is that alot of the flavour variations have been consolidated too and you end up with different dishes tasting similar.
To get the most out of the recipes posted on the forum, you really should use the intended spice mix and base together, in order to judge the resulting curry they make. Then you are in a position to change the components you feel need to be changed to get you closer to your goal, if indeed they need changing at all.
Cheers,
Malc. :)
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I use the IG Spice Mix (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,4442.msg40687.html#msg40687) as the chef has been cooking BIR since the early 70's. The food he produces is the standard by which I judge all others and it is second to none.
Interesting.
Do you have a base and sample recipe that goes with this mix powder? Is it right to assume that most of the individual dish flavour comes from the addition of spices to this mix when the actual dish is cooked?
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I've been using CA's mix powder along with his base for some time with good results but I've recently broken with that and have been experimenting with my own concoctions just to see what influence what is having on the final flavour.
I've just recently made a batch my own base sauce which wasn't significantly different to anything else you'll find here but I wanted to experiment with cooking technique and ingredient ratios, specifically the onion weight to other vegetable (green pepper, carrot, cabbage, tomato) weight and to water + oil volume ratio to solid (onion + vegetable) ratio.
I also created my own mix powder to go with it because I wanted to remove the standard pre-bought ground Madras powder component to see what effect it was having. It was basically 4 parts Turmeric, 3 parts coriander, 2 parts cumin, 1 part paprika, 1 part chilli powder, 1 part fenugreek powder, 1 part garlic powder, 1/2 part ginger powder, 1/2 part cardamon powder, 1/2 part garam masala, 1/2 part mustard powder and 1/2 tsp fennel seeds, 1/2 tsp black peppercorns and 1 star anise all ground.
So far it's not been hugely different to what I've been used to but I've only made once dish with this so far so it's early days.
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Do you have a base and sample recipe that goes with this mix powder? Is it right to assume that most of the individual dish flavour comes from the addition of spices to this mix when the actual dish is cooked?
Hi Spicey,
Sadly not i'm afraid, but it is something that I am looking into now that I have found my curry mojo again.
I think it is wrong to assume anything, but all the conversations I have had regarding old school and the snippets of information that I have garnered from them, suggest that there was alot more going on in the old school BIR kitchen by comparison to today's.
If you use a base and mix powder that contains alot of spices, those flavours will be in the final dish, you won't be able to take them out. Like garam masala for instance, I don't want that flavour in every dish I make, so I wouldn't use it in my spice mix when I can simply add it to the dish when needed. So it stands to reason that I using a simple base and spice mix, will aloow the chef to create a huge array of differently flavoured dishes.
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it's something i'd like to revisit (eventually). currently i'm happy to buy off ifindforu off ebay.
of the make it yourself i like derekdansak, kushi and above all mouchak.
why buy ifindforu - it's BIR quality and nothing else i've come across comes close
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So it stands to reason that I using a simple base and spice mix, will aloow the chef to create a huge array of differently flavoured dishes.
Malc, thanks for your reply.
This is a subject I find really interesting and I do agree with everything you've said here and your previous post on the subject.
The BIRs of today seem to have refined the processes down to simplify dish construction for speed, ease and consistency, the trade off being that many of them taste the same and there's little differentiation between dishes.
The BIR's of yesteryear appear to have had simpler base sauces and mix powders but more complex final dish construction which would have led to more differentiation in the dishes produced. That sits quite happily with my own personal belief (and experience of) old school BIR's borrowing, adapting and relying heavily on traditional style Indian recipes for their dishes.
Old school BIR's appear to have started the commercial refinement of traditional Indian recipes for mass, repeatable, consistent kitchen production that the current modern crop of BIR's have simply refined down even further.
To revisit that old school taste one has to go back to that transition stage of traditional Indian food fusing with commercial kitchen practice.
A truly fascinating subject which suggests strongly that the way forward for those of us trying to recreate it very much lies in simple base's, simple mix powders but much more complex final dish construction.
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Do you have a base and sample recipe that goes with this mix powder? Is it right to assume that most of the individual dish flavour comes from the addition of spices to this mix when the actual dish is cooked?
Hi Spicey,
Sadly not i'm afraid, but it is something that I am looking into now that I have found my curry mojo again.
I think it is wrong to assume anything, but all the conversations I have had regarding old school and the snippets of information that I have garnered from them, suggest that there was alot more going on in the old school BIR kitchen by comparison to today's.
If you use a base and mix powder that contains alot of spices, those flavours will be in the final dish, you won't be able to take them out. Like garam masala for instance, I don't want that flavour in every dish I make, so I wouldn't use it in my spice mix when I can simply add it to the dish when needed. So it stands to reason that I using a simple base and spice mix, will aloow the chef to create a huge array of differently flavoured dishes.
Spot on Axe.. Keep it simple. That is why I do not like CA' s mix. Too many strong flavours. Come to think of it his base didn' t work for me either. ;)
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Thanks for all your participation. I would like to clarify that this thread's purpose isn't to help me find out which of the 3 mix powders I mentioned above are the best, but rather what are your mix powders and why you pick them over something else. I'm glad this thread has picked up some interest so far :)
I think it was JerryM who at one point made a number of different mix powders from this site and ended up shortlisting only 2-3 out of them and this got me thinking. I've never given too much thought into the mix powder, but I would imagine if your base already contains coriander and your mix powder is high on coriander, that's going to round the flavor a little if not overpowering it.
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I've never given too much thought into the mix powder, but I would imagine if your base already contains coriander and your mix powder is high on coriander, that's going to round the flavor a little if not overpowering it.
Which is why it's not wise to use x's base with y's mix powder and z's recipe, they're not really interchangeable and the results will be somewhat unpredictable at best.
This is one of the strengths of CA's suite of recipe and base/mix powder components - they're all designed to work together and give consistent reliably good results. Whatever people decide to use, it's best in my opinion to pick a base and mix powder that works with it, from there you can experiment/tweak the final dish construction to your own personal taste.
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Which is why it's not wise to use x's base with y's mix powder and z's recipe, they're not really interchangeable and the results will be somewhat unpredictable at best.
Exactly. Although, occasionally, you will be lucky with the result (i.e taz base seems to work very well with c2g)
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To answer the question in the title of the thread : none. I have never used mix powder, and have no intentions of ever doing so. I add individual spices so that I have greater control over spice content of the finished dish. Mix powder may be a time saver, but the only other benefit I can see is that it allows accurate trace-level spicing which is hard to achieve if the spices are added individually.
** Phil.
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Old school BIR's appear to have started the commercial refinement of traditional Indian recipes for mass, repeatable, consistent kitchen production that the current modern crop of BIR's have simply refined down even further.
To revisit that old school taste one has to go back to that transition stage of traditional Indian food fusing with commercial kitchen practice.
That is exactly the same conclusion that I have reached.
** Phil.
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Ok here goes, from 5 years experience i found ......
i always default to the DD spice mix given to me from a real bangledesh bir owner, simply because it is good and never lets me down. (great for dansak btw)
2nd... the kushi spice mix is well rounded and great for rogan josh . a real gem also. (mild + subtle)
3rd ... the cbm spice mix is pucka. especially with a dash of pataks madras paste to boost it.
i have jars with all 3 spice mixtures in my cupboard always. i also renew them each 6 months with new spices.
of course each spice mix suits my personal base, so i cant guarantee it will work with your own prefered base. but thats another story !!
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Ok here goes, from 5 years experience i found ......
i always default to the DD spice mix given to me from a real bangledesh bir owner, simply because it is good and never lets me down. (great for dansak btw)
2nd... the kushi spice mix is well rounded and great for rogan josh . a real gem also. (mild + subtle)
3rd ... the cbm spice mix is pucka. especially with a dash of pataks madras paste to boost it.
i have jars with all 3 spice mixtures in my cupboard always. i also renew them each 6 months with new spices.
of course each spice mix suits my personal base, so i cant guarantee it will work with your own prefered base. but thats another story !!
Quite interesting. Is 1 available on the forum?
Regarding CBMs, he has 2 different mix powders in his book. Which are you referring to? I've used the first one and while I didn't find it bad, I wasn't overly impressed either, although, only yesterday I made a giant leap using CBM's base/mix powder #1 in a dish I'd hardly ever cook - madras.
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Yes 1 was available , named DD spice mix about 1 or 2 years ago. however not sure if its still stored on cr0. presumably because stew and the cr0 administrators dont have enough space to store everything ever posted over the last 5 years.
I will re post the spice mix tomorow when i find the exact measurments given to me by the chef.
I always return to it , so its stood the test of time. as i said before its great in dhansak recipies.
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I will re post the spice mix tomorow...d the test of time. as i said before its great in dhansak recipies.
Is this it?
coriander 2 tsp
cumin 1 tsp
paprika 2 tsp
curry powder 3 tsp (any mild one will do)
tumeric 4 tsp
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Hi mate,
ok here is the exact mix i wrote down in my notes approx 4 years ago.
coriander powder - 2 parts
cumin powder - 1 part
paprika powder- 2 parts
curry powder 3 parts
tumeric powder 4 parts
from the best bir ta in hastings east sussex from a really nice head chef who inspired my cooking
even to this day.
buy the best paprika you can find, it makes a difference. cheap paprika is crappy crappy :)
i found swartz mild curry powder worked well (this is what they use) or rajah mild madras curry powder
is very good. bolst mild curry powder works well to.
always use fresh spices no older than 6 months and store in small air tight container.
enjoy
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Original is here (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php/topic,2975.msg26333.html#msg26333).
** Phil.
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I've never given too much thought into the mix powder, but I would imagine if your base already contains coriander and your mix powder is high on coriander, that's going to round the flavor a little if not overpowering it.
i missed the importance of mix powder too. it's well worth making a few and wet finger tasting even if you don't cook with them. i have no proof but i am sure lots of turmeric is what's in BIR mix. it's a subject i intend at some point to revisit. if you make the cumin 1 unit it's much easier to compare the various mixes. the DD & mouchak have 4 off units of turmeric. my gut feeling is that 6 units might be even better.
on the base spicing your on the right track for sure. coriander i find is quite tolerant in base. again i don't have any proof but i don't like to add "mix powder" spicing to a base for the very reason you state.
we still have lots to learn.
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If we accept the notion that simple is best when it comes to a base sauce and corresponding mix powder; what combination posted on the forum meets this criteria and generally gets favourable reviews?
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Seems well over on the turmeric to me this one. Simple but heavy haldi. ;)
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Seems well over on the turmeric to me this one. Simple but heavy haldi. ;)
But do remember Bruce Edward's assertion, re-cited here recently, that he could make a perfectly acceptable curry using only turmeric, salt and pepper : no other spices. Think what you will of BE, that point is worth bearing in mind.
** Phil.
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Seems well over on the turmeric to me this one. Simple but heavy haldi. ;)
But do remember Bruce Edward's assertion, re-cited here recently, that he could make a perfectly acceptable curry using only turmeric, salt and pepper : no other spices. Think what you will of BE, that point is worth bearing in mind.
** Phil.
Are you sure he mentioned salt? ;)
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Seems well over on the turmeric to me this one. Simple but heavy haldi. ;)
But do remember Bruce Edward's assertion, re-cited here recently, that he could make a perfectly acceptable curry using only turmeric, salt and pepper : no other spices. Think what you will of BE, that point is worth bearing in mind.
** Phil.
Yes but we don't want acceptable curries. We want better than acceptable surely. Otherwise see the thread about the shop bought rubbish. ( which I have purposely restricted my typing fingers over ) ;) but the idd one of which I agree may be considered ' acceptable ' , at best.
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Just out of curiosity RD, why do you find CA's mix too over-powering? It seems pretty similiar to a lot of mix powders on here.
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Yes but we don't want acceptable curries. We want better than acceptable surely.
Umm, yes we do. But, and it's a big but, how do you define acceptable and at what point does over-spicing (a common practice) degrade the taste and flavour of a dish and at what point does simplicity start to improve it?
Phil I think is referring to my recent comment regarding Bruce Edward's assertion and I made it with respect to Saag Bhaji, which can be made quite simply with just turmeric , salt and pepper. Simple spicing, but surprisingly good result and somewhat better than 'acceptable'.
Personally, I prefer to make Saag bhaji with 1/2 tsp of mix powder, salt and a chef spoon of base sauce, but you don't have to make it with those ingredients and many here produce pretty good results with simpler ingredients.
It's important also to remember I think that most generic curry powders contain large quantities of turmeric in them which is by far the largest single component, which makes it a pretty important spice in Indian flavouring. No surprise then that most mix powders seem to follow that rule too, which does rather suggest that other spice components play a smaller role in the flavouring.
BE's comment I think highlights that you can make an acceptable curry dish without any other spice other than turmeric, salt and pepper, but you probably couldn't make an acceptable one without turmeric.
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Just out of curiosity RD, why do you find CA's mix too over-powering? It seems pretty similiar to a lot of mix powders on here.
Just the little additions here and there , eg and especially cardamon powder albeit the fenugreek and ginger are also to 'blame' . These spices are best left out of a general mix imho.
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The BIRs of today seem to have refined the processes down to simplify dish construction for speed, ease and consistency, the trade off being that many of them taste the same and there's little differentiation between dishes.
The BIR's of yesteryear appear to have had simpler base sauces and mix powders but more complex final dish construction which would have led to more differentiation in the dishes produced. That sits quite happily with my own personal belief (and experience of) old school BIR's borrowing, adapting and relying heavily on traditional style Indian recipes for their dishes.
Old school BIR's appear to have started the commercial refinement of traditional Indian recipes for mass, repeatable, consistent kitchen production that the current modern crop of BIR's have simply refined down even further.
To revisit that old school taste one has to go back to that transition stage of traditional Indian food fusing with commercial kitchen practice.
I knew when I read this that I had read something similar a long time ago; it also resonates with my own feelings as to why 60's/70's curries were so much more exciting, and so much more unpredictable -- no two restaurants produced the same flavour for any one given dish. So I searched around, and lo and behold, it was here (http://www.curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=3074.0)all the time. And guess who the author was ?
Consider how the restaurant curry probably evolved: Early restaurateurs starting out trying to make traditional Indian food acceptable to the British. What do the Brits want ? Something that looks and sounds interesting, but not too hot or spicy, probably with meat. That's easy, a toned-down version of a traditional meat dish. Takes too long to cook from scratch. So pre-cook the meat and onions separately, and they can then be assembled into a dish as and when required, and this gives scope for other dishes too. And the Brits want gravy with everything. So make gravy. (Fortunately for us, the Indian idea of gravy is not the starchy gloop that an English cook would immediately think of).
So the early restaurants started out serving dishes that were fairly close to the traditional but made with pre-cooked ingredients. Then someone had the idea of blending the onion and the sauce was developed, probably in the sixties. I remember seventies curries as being fairly dark brown in colour, so onions were fried at this stage. Then around 1980, red curries appeared. Within a year or so, the dark brown curry had disappeared. This was when the present day 'boiled' sauce took over. The restaurateur, however, is always at a disadvantage in that he is creating a dish for an imagined customer. He doesn't eat it himself, so simply aims to produce something that will be enjoyed, using ingredients that he knows.
** Phil.
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I knew when I read this that I had read something similar a long time ago;
Bingo!
Another piece of the jigsaw drops into place and moves us all on a little bit further.
Good detective work sherlock :)
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Because Gagomes/Gongalo has posted this this enquiry twice, for what ever reason
I'll just paste my answer from his first thread.
Hi Gagomes, back to basics...
As a general rule of thumb, a Bengali BIR "Mix Powder" starts off with 4 main
ground spices which are the primary elements.
1. Madras Curry Powder (A historic blend of at least 12 spices)
2. Turmeric Powder
3. Coriander Powder
4. Cumin Powder
Then each Chef/Restaurant usually might add secondary spices into the Mix
5. Paprika Powder
6. Garam Masala Powder
etc...etc..
If you made a Mix Powder with only the primary spices, that would work fine.
The most successful Restaurant I'm involved with (20k+) simply uses the primary 4 + GM
cheers Chewy
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Because Gagomes/Gongalo has posted this this enquiry twice, for what ever reason
For clarification, the former thread dates back to January and the main questions were regarding the word "parts" used in the context of a mix powder recipe which, up until then, I had never come across and wasn't sure whether a part could be just any constant measurement (tsp, tbsp, cup, a truck) and specifically asked for any pros and cons of the c2g spice mix. This thread's intent is slightly off that path and more about what you/we use and why you/we do it so. I think everyone will benefit hearing the different opinions and reasoning behind their choosing. Apologies if I seem to be repeating and thanks for still contributing by picking up and pasting your dated comment. :-)
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Because Gagomes/Gongalo has posted this this enquiry twice, for what ever reason
I'll just paste my answer from his first thread.
Hi Gagomes, back to basics...
As a general rule of thumb, a Bengali BIR "Mix Powder" starts off with 4 main
ground spices which are the primary elements.
1. Madras Curry Powder (A historic blend of at least 12 spices)
2. Turmeric Powder
3. Coriander Powder
4. Cumin Powder
Then each Chef/Restaurant usually might add secondary spices into the Mix
5. Paprika Powder
6. Garam Masala Powder
etc...etc..
If you made a Mix Powder with only the primary spices, that would work fine.
The most successful Restaurant I'm involved with (20k+) simply uses the primary 4 + GM
cheers Chewy
Agreed - but what is the powder ratio your chefs mix Chewy?
best, Rich