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Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: Derek Dansak on March 14, 2013, 09:22 AM

Title: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Derek Dansak on March 14, 2013, 09:22 AM
Thought my latest experiment should be posted as the results were promising.

initially made chicken soup as dad did when i was a nipper !

chicken carcus,   2 onion 2 celery  2 carrot   left whole

water to cover  salt  oil  knorr chicke stock cube

boil for an hour  then sieve  , so all that remains is soup

I then experimented adding 2 -3 tbs or more to a small portion of base  before making madras

the result was a very meaty savoury taste similar but not identical to illusive bir taste.
Next time i would make the soup more dilute and remove more fat from the soup.

my conclusion was that part of the missing 5%   has to be down to good chicken stock added to base.
Adding a little stock to the base during base prep would also seem the next step to try

Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: fried on March 14, 2013, 11:44 AM
I really don't like the idea of adding stock cubes to a stock! although making a base with stock is definitely something I'm going to try soon.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: RubyDoo on March 14, 2013, 03:09 PM
Likewise, what is the point of extracting all that goodness and flavour from the carcass and veg only to mask it off with a salty stock cube. Don't get me wrong, cubes are fine but not, imho, to add to a home made stock. One or tother for me.  :D
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 14, 2013, 03:11 PM
Yes and no.  I would not add a stock cube to home-made chicken stock, but I would, and do, as a matter of course, add a Knorr Chicken Stock Pot.

** Phil.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: StoneCut on March 14, 2013, 03:11 PM
Hhhm, most stock cubes contain MSG and other flavour enhancers. IMHO, that might be a pretty good thing to try out.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2013, 03:19 PM
A lot of people (including me) think that MSG doesn't work well with BIR curries.

Check out the low salt Kallo stock cubes, no MSG:

http://www.planetorganic.com/kallo-organic-very-low-salt-chicken-stock-cubes.html (http://www.planetorganic.com/kallo-organic-very-low-salt-chicken-stock-cubes.html)

You are then free to add as much salt as you think necessary.

Paul
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Malc. on March 14, 2013, 03:21 PM
Yes and no.  I would not add a stock cube to home-made chicken stock, but I would, and do, as a matter of course, add a Knorr Chicken Stock Pot.

Agreed, I find the Knorr Stock Pot range very good indeed. :)
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: RubyDoo on March 14, 2013, 03:28 PM
Yes and no.  I would not add a stock cube to home-made chicken stock, but I would, and do, as a matter of course, add a Knorr Chicken Stock Pot.

Agreed, I find the Knorr Stock Pot range very good indeed. :)

I agree but still do not see the point of adding to a home made stock which if done right should be bursting with flavour already.  ;) if it needs a stock cube then you may as well save the effort and just use the cube.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Malc. on March 14, 2013, 03:38 PM
I agree but still do not see the point of adding to a home made stock which if done right should be bursting with flavour already.  ;) if it needs a stock cube then you may as well save the effort and just use the cube.

I agree with that too, but from what I read of DD's OP was that his stock is not seasoned and does not contain a boquet garnie, so the stock cube would actually balance the finished stock in this case.

Just a thought. :)
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: RubyDoo on March 14, 2013, 03:53 PM
Ok.  ;)
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: fried on March 14, 2013, 04:35 PM
While we're on the subject; Has anyone tried using homemade stock in the base and if so, how much stock to water did they use?

I can't remember the taste of knorr stock cubes, but in France a lot of Maggi chicken stock cubes are used in preparing West African dishes, I started using then as it's supposedly the authentic taste, but they really are far too salty for me.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Malc. on March 14, 2013, 04:40 PM
In my mind, making a stock to add to a base recipe is doubling your work load. Why not simply add the chicken whole preferably or carcass to your base when cooking it down after blending? Surely this is the desired effect that is trying to be achieved. On the plus side, you'll have fantastic tasting cooked chicken to enjoy too!

Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: fried on March 14, 2013, 04:44 PM
The main reason is that I make stock for use in a lot of different things and it doesn't necessarily coincide with making a base. It is generally after the missus has deboned the chicken thighs. The second reason is that I find that it can be a bit greasy if it the fat isn't skimmed off before (I remember a disasterous risotto - shudder).

I also seemed to remember that soimeone mentioned using a whole carcass in there base and found it a bit over-powering.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: DalPuri on March 14, 2013, 04:46 PM
I never let anything go to waste so i always make stock from bones or a carcass.
The last leg of lamb i cut up went to make tikka and the bone went into a stock of mostly whole garam masala. this was strained into shot moulds and frozen.

The bone from the diced leg before that went straight into the gravy.
I haven't done a side by side to see the difference though.

One thing that i NEVER do is season my stock. This gives you more control over the final dish.

Frank.  :)
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: spiceyokooko on March 14, 2013, 05:16 PM
It is generally after the missus has deboned the chicken thighs.

Interesting, have you tried cooking them with the bone in?

I've been doing this myself recently, skinning chicken thighs on the bone and removing any excess fat but leaving the bone in. They cook much the same as if using diced breast, just seal the surface, but simmer for about an hour or so in the sauce. I usually add extra water to the base sauce for the additional simmer time. The fat, sinew and muscle in the chicken thigh breaks down and helps to thicken the sauce.

When done the meat falls off the bone really easily and makes for a nice change to diced breast which I find can sometimes be a bit dry given it doesn't contain any fat.

I've recently experimented with marinating chicken thighs in jerk seasoning and cooking this with base sauce, lime juice and scotch  bonnet peppers and sweet potatoes, again it makes a nice change and variation to the usual BIR style.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: fried on March 14, 2013, 05:28 PM
I've tried using both boned and deboned chicken thighs, but I do prefer deboned in a curry. I still don't really like picking up bones that are covered in sauce :o

My missus hates chicken breast and luckily for me will sit and debone 5kgs at a time then pack it up and put it in the freezer. I certainly wouldn't have the patience.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: spiceyokooko on March 14, 2013, 05:47 PM
I've tried using both boned and deboned chicken thighs, but I do prefer deboned in a curry. I still don't really like picking up bones that are covered in sauce

You don't have to pick it up! If you cook it right all the meat falls off the chicken thigh and you can just push the bone to the side of the plate. Cooking the thigh with bone in adds a bit of extra flavour too I find.

But I understand what you're saying, some people just don't like dealing with bones and grisly bits, I don't myself really but I'm prepared to deal with it for the extra benefits it offers and the different tenderness and flavour it offers over using diced breast.

We're all different!

Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Secret Santa on March 14, 2013, 06:29 PM
I can't remember the taste of knorr stock cubes

Go to the kitchen and pour a small amount of salt onto your tongue and you'll be pretty much 90% of the way to reminding you of the knorr stock cube flavour. They are intensely over salty (and no Phil, you may not disagree, as I know your taste buds have been nuked form years of eating over salty food, so you're no judge!).  ;)

Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Malc. on March 14, 2013, 08:56 PM
Have you tried the stock pots though SS? They are a different ball game all together, compared to the stock cubes. I'd recommend them to anyone.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Secret Santa on March 14, 2013, 10:00 PM
Have you tried the stock pots though SS? They are a different ball game all together, compared to the stock cubes. I'd recommend them to anyone.

I absolutely have Axe and, for me, they are completely unpalatable. The flavour is nice enough if I could get over the excessive saltiness. As it happens I originally bought them for use in a base sauce and it didn't help, in my opinion. I think fresh chicken is the way to go personally (i.e. the way it used to be done).
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: natterjak on March 14, 2013, 10:08 PM
I agree. Those knorr stockpots are evil things. Pure essence of concentrated salt and a guaranteed way to render almost any dish inedible.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2013, 10:36 PM
Did you see my post on page 1 about the Kallo stock cubes? These are available in very low salt form and also don't contain MSG.
My local Waitrose sells them as do a few other supermarkets.

I totally agree about commercial stock cubes/pots being over salty. Especially if you intend to reduce the liquid down it gets even worse.

Paul
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: spiceyokooko on March 14, 2013, 10:38 PM
I absolutely have Axe and, for me, they are completely unpalatable. The flavour is nice enough if I could get over the excessive saltiness.

I agree, particularly as I'm not a big fan of salt and deliberately cut back on salt use in my cooking. Out of curiosity I just nipped down to look at the ingredients list on a pack of Knorr Lamb Stock cubes and low and behold the first ingredient listed (which is usually the largest ingredient used) is salt.

I also looked at the ingredient list on Oxo cubes (Chicken and Beef) just to confirm it's still being used and one of the ingredients listed is MSG! I don't think many people realise that Oxo cubes have MSG in them, particularly as it's not highlighted on the box as it should be in my opinion. Oxo cubes also contain a lot of salt. Maggi All Purpose Seasoning also has MSG in it.

I know some people aren't bothered about MSG as a flavour enhancer, but some people are and I think they really should highlight this.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: StoneCut on March 15, 2013, 08:29 AM
I thought it's common knowledge that these stock cubes contain flavour enhancers ? Not necessarily only MSG but also stuff such as "yeast extract" (which is, essentially, also MSG). Glutamate is not necessarily bad per se (Parmesan contains LOTS of it), but some people do react to the monosodium version as I do, too.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Peripatetic Phil on March 15, 2013, 01:37 PM
Go to the kitchen and pour a small amount of salt onto your tongue and you'll be pretty much 90% of the way to reminding you of the knorr stock cube flavour. They are intensely over salty (and no Phil, you may not disagree, as I know your taste buds have been nuked form years of eating over salty food, so you're no judge!).  ;)

Given that when I make an egg sandwich with two eggs and a whole tin of anchovies (as I have just done), I still find it necessary to add salt, it would seem that my personal need for salt is perhaps arguably greater than the British average ...
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Secret Santa on March 15, 2013, 01:47 PM
Given that when I make an egg sandwich with two eggs and a whole tin of anchovies (as I have just done), I still find it necessary to add salt, it would seem that my personal need for salt is perhaps arguably greater than the British average ...

Q.E.D.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: spiceyokooko on March 15, 2013, 02:23 PM
Given that when I make an egg sandwich with two eggs and a whole tin of anchovies (as I have just done), I still find it necessary to add salt, it would seem that my personal need for salt is perhaps arguably greater than the British average ...

:o

I'm surprised you can taste anything at all!
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: goncalo on March 15, 2013, 03:34 PM
Recently  (2 or so weeks ago) I did an experiment. Made half-portion of darthphall's base and I cooked 8 breasts of chicken in the base. I did not notice a substantial improvement, granted I didn't get the stock as finely grained as I would've wished to, but the chicken itself, had soaked in all the flavours of the vegetables and spices and for that alone, it was well worth it. The tastiest chicken I've cooked myself at home for sure.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Derek Dansak on March 17, 2013, 05:42 PM
Personally i think the missing taste is 30% down to an awesome meat / chicken stock.  I am still working on this , but remain very optimistic based on my previous results
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Secret Santa on March 17, 2013, 08:04 PM
Made half-portion of darthphall's base and I cooked 8 breasts of chicken in the base.

I don't think that's enough though. It really needs a whole chicken, or chicken pieces, so that the flavour of the bones and fat from the skin is added as well. Mind, I'm talking theoretically here based on making soups, as I've yet to try it myself in a base.
Title: Re: the homemade chicken soup experiment (with base)
Post by: Malc. on March 18, 2013, 10:19 AM
Personally I would joint the bird removing the breasts and whole legs then use the remaining carcase as well or keep the joints back for tikka and tandoori. Most of the flavour comes from the thigh area though so keep that in mind.