Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: George on February 08, 2013, 03:53 PM
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I've cooked more curries in the past three months than in the previous three years. About 1 in 3 have produced fine flavours, whatever they are. That's what I'm looking for - fine flavours. But I can't produce consistent results, like a Big Mac will taste almost identical, anywhere in the world, at any time.
Perhaps it's because I haven't mastered fundamental techniques so, even when I think I'm repeating the same approach, I may not actually be doing so.
Can you achieve consistently good results, time after time, when cooking sauce-based dishes?
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Can you achieve consistently good results, time after time, when cooking sauce-based dishes?
No :) But I would rather have variability and real, home-cooked, lovingly-prepared food than a Big Mac (or a Small Mac, or any sort of Mac [1]) any day of the week.
But to anticipate Stephen's answer below, no two curries are even intentionally the same; I regard the process as a learning opportunity, and so each curry differs in some way from all those I have cooked recently.
** Phil
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[1] Now if we were to speak of a Burger King Bacon Double Cheeseburger XL meal, Supersized, you might get a different answer !
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Good question George and I think in the main that I do achieve consistent results, with the reasons for that being as follows:
1. practice - I've been cooking two different curries (for g/g and me) on average 5 nights a week for the past two years.
2. repetition of method - Taz base, BE spice mix, PC Tandoori Masala, regardless of the actual curry
3. sticking to the recipe - I measure as closely as I can and follow my recipes as close to the letter as I can, therefore I'm not cooking or measuring by eye and I find that if I don't do that then variation is introduced and the results are not as expected
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I also find my korma's to come out consistently with very little variation in flavour and texture. I would call this consistency, but if we are to look into the real meaning of the word, then I don't really go all the way as even my favourite TAs and restaurants never really been consistent.
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Can you achieve consistently good results, time after time, when cooking sauce-based dishes?
Yes and no.
Yes when I want to by simply repeating known processes that lead to a known quantity. I can consistently recreate dishes using the same ingredients and techniques that result in a known enjoyable dish.
No, because I'm constantly changing things and deliberately doing something different just to see what the result will be.
I'm currently experimenting on the point at which salt and methi leaves are added to the cooking process. The current results seem to indicate that salt should be added as early as possible and methi leaves after the final batch of base has gone in and the dish is left to simmer. I've never fully understood why methi leaves are added at the same time as the spice mix.
I've also done quite a lot of recent experimentation on the amount of base to use in a single dish and how many ladles (or chef spoons, I use a ladle) of it should be reduced prior to adding the rest. I've been getting some good results (more depth of flavour and complexity) by reducing 3 separate ladles of base over a high heat before adding the remainder. Which means 500ml of base is used rather then 300ml generally recommended. I'm still working on this at the moment.
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Yes when I want to by simply repeating known processes that lead to a known quantity. I can consistently recreate dishes using the same ingredients and techniques that result in a known enjoyable dish.
Thanks everyone for the interesting responses so far. Yes, I mean I often fail to recreate the fine flavours I seek, even when I'm trying my hardest to repeat the same approach I used before.
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Yes, I mean I often fail to recreate the fine flavours I seek, even when I'm trying my hardest to repeating the same approach I used before.
Interesting.
But even more interesting is why you think that might be? Why do you personally think you're not getting repeatable results?
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Thanks everyone for the interesting responses so far. Yes, I mean I often fail to recreate the fine flavours I seek, even when I'm trying my hardest to repeating the same approach I used before.
What do you feel is the cause of this George?
I've noticed a difference when my spices are getting 'stale' and if i'm cooking ad hoc, but generally when following a recipe I tend to get the desired results. That's not to say I don't have disasters from time to time, as i'm sure we all do.
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What do you feel is the cause of this George?
The cause of my typing error when I wrote "repeating" rather than "repeat" is due to the sudden return of a sluggish forum. I realised my mistake seconds after posting but it took ages for the 'modify' screen to come up. Then it said curry-recipes was unavailable by which time the typing error had been quoted twice.
The probable cause of my apparent failure to replicate a successful recipe is that I've been experimenting when I come across fine flavours in the first place. I don't write down everything I do before I add stuff to the pan. Then I try to recall what I did, after a successful fry-up, and make a few notes. But my 'recipes' don't tend to work again.
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The probable cause of my apparent failure to replicate a successful recipe is that I've been experimenting when I come across fine flavours in the first place. I don't write down everything I do before I add stuff to the pan. Then I try to recall what I did, after a successful fry-up, and make a few notes. But my 'recipes' don't tend to work again.
I know that feeling :)
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:'( No I don't get consistent results, which I put down to lack of practice. i generally make a curry once a week.
I often think if I was locked in a kitchen from 6-midnight & cooked all that time, then I would be more consistent.
One thing I've noticed watching all the videos recently, is none of the chef's ever taste their dishes. Are they just confident ?
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One thing I've noticed watching all the videos recently, is none of the chef's ever taste their dishes. Are they just confident ?
No, they just prefer fish 'n' chips or pizza :)
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Then I try to recall what I did, after a successful fry-up, and make a few notes. But my 'recipes' don't tend to work again.
Well that's a flaw in your methodology! Solution: improve methodology!
Seriously though, what are the main changes you make? Are they ingredient or technique? I've pretty much adopted the same cooking technique now whatever BIR dish I make and the primary variations are ingredient orientated which I think are much easier to track.
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The probable cause of my apparent failure to replicate a successful recipe is that I've been experimenting when I come across fine flavours in the first place. I don't write down everything I do before I add stuff to the pan. Then I try to recall what I did, after a successful fry-up, and make a few notes. But my 'recipes' don't tend to work again.
That puts a different light on your original post then, i've had this happen many a time. I now make a note of every subtle change I make, which ever way I can. Even if that calls on the wife or kids to jot it down for me, though they normally moan about that. ::)
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Are they just confident ?
Why would they need to if they're using the same techniques and ingredients they've used 100 times in the past? That's the very epitomy of consistency.
But then, they are churning these things out as a day job, day in day out, week in week out.
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One thing I've noticed watching all the videos recently, is none of the chef's ever taste their dishes. Are they just confident ?
I think a proper professional chef would probably say they are rank amateurs, which may be why the taste of dishes in a single known BIR can vary from sensational to disappointing, from one day to the next. I always thought a good chef will taste everything before letting it leave the kitchen. But that's probably a different debate which we've discussed before. At least they know what they're supposed to do (the confidence element) but I certainly don't!
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I always thought a good chef will taste everything before letting it leave the kitchen.
You are in good company there, George. Messrs Blanc, Roux & Wallace insist on it.
** Phil.
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I always thought a good chef will taste everything before letting it leave the kitchen.
Who said BIR cooks were good chefs? In any case they're not chefs in the strict sense of the word, they're just line cooks. Just replicating dishes to a known recipe in a conveyor belt line.
In any case, imagine having to taste every single BIR dish you have to cook from a Korma to a Phall? Your taste buds would probably be frazzled to the point you couldn't taste jack shit.
Let's not confuse the delicacy, complexity and general high level of French Haute Cuisine (where tasting each dish is essential) to to your average BIR line cooks. They're about as different as chalk and cheese.
I expect Atul Kochar's restaurant tastes all their dishes before they leave the kitchen, but your average BIR is light years away from the food of Atul Kochar in terms of sophistication and price.
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I get reasonably consistent results when I want to, but I'm (overly) obsessive about removing variables.
I make a double batch of base sauce so I can maximize the number of curries I make before I have to contend with the variability of the quality of vegetables. There is of course a deterioration of flavour due to freezing but that's one variable from the infinite number of possibilities that a new batch of base sauce provides and it is easily identified. BTW this isn't a criticism of those who don't make large batches of base it's just an observation of the consequences in relation to the consistency of results.
The same observations apply for the mix powder, from a consistency point of view it's better to have a larger quantity of powder that remains the same except for the deterioration due to time. Of course the best tasting curry will come from fresh ingredients, but if like me you're still working on technique I think the consistency is essential otherwise you can't judge the results of your technique.
I make my curries at night and use the same lighting arrangement each time so that I can more accurately and precisely judge frying times on colour (and the bubble rate of course), variability of the hob's temperature becomes less of an issue but of course there's an element of experience to know what colour is good (this is something I need to work on). For anyone who doubts that lighting makes a difference try cooking bread to as brown a shade as you can get without burning it under artificial light then view it daylight. On a related note anyone who tries to judge colour from a video or picture is likely to fail :)
When making the final dish I have my ingredients measured out as accurately and precisely as I can before i start cooking, I even have my saucers and bowls laid out in the same order each time I make a dish :) I also have a watch with a second hand on display to give an indication of the heat of my pan and adjust it to give about the same cooking times on each occasion. I always use the same pan too. I find that different pans can give very different results.
When I experiment, which I would never do before getting consistent results with a recipe first, I change only one thing at a time and decide ahead of time what that will be. Knowing what changed the quality of the end results is then trivial.
I expect that the reason the chefs don't taste the individual dishes is that taste is too subjective an assessment to be useful, as spiceyokooko pointed out: "Your taste buds would probably be frazzled to the point you couldn't taste jack shit."
For the record I'm not a great cook but I know a variable when I see one :)
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I forgot to mention that when a recipe calls for "roasting" spices in a frying pan I use an oven instead because it's more repeatable (it must be true Heston says so) :)
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I'm finding slight variation in regular curry's I'm cooking. Last week I did a classic N Indian curry and the taste was totally off, I found out the corriander was a different type which made the dish smell and taste more like perfume. Sometimes powders can have variations to them if I'm moving on to a new batch.
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George,
it's a yes from me. i do have "test" weeks following my new year resolution but only cook for myself.
when cooking for others (mainly family) i get 100% consistency.
in fact i found it quite a suprise how much "variability" there is and still produce spot on result. i used to wonder how BIR chefs could produce without tasting.
it really is down to repetition - doing exactly the same.
pouring the base through a ladle to judge the thinness and using a chef spoon of base to cook the spices are the key QC measures for me. i still use measuring spoon for the spices at dish frying and weigh all ingredients when making base.
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had unexpected cooking night. made 2 off Zaal CTM one after the other and ended up with 2 off totally different dishes. so 0% consistency.
not perhaps that unexpected given i was off my normal beaten track.
dish 1 - this had smokey taste. quite ironic given in the past i had period when i just could not get. i put it down to the swish (in sam's video posted by h4ppy-chris) early on when cooking out the spices. i also added too much of the red masala. the recipe stating 1 chef which was what i aimed at yet think i probably ended up heaped (down to how thick the paste is). i was also taken aback by how slow the condensed milk pours (it really does not pour at all). i ran out of time on the heat and did not get enough in.
dish 2 - not bad at all. got the red masala right and started adding the condensed milk much earlier and throttled the tin.
practice is clearly a big factor.
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pouring the base through a ladle to judge the thinness and using a chef spoon of base to cook the spices are the key QC measures for me. i still use measuring spoon for the spices at dish frying and weigh all ingredients when making base.
Jerry, does that mean you don't fry spices, but "cook" them in the base? Do you feel that this gives you a better result?
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meggeth,
in short yes. similar can be achieved by adding water to the tom puree.
when i 1st joined the site i tried to master the "toffee" smell hot dry frying approach. despite something like 3 to 6 months practise i still got hit and miss results. i also got the odd burnt which is grim.
following the zaal input of singe and quench i revisited the hot dry fry approach. i cooked 5 off plain curry and felt 4 off were on par and 1 off slightly better than my norm. i still believe there is some improvement to be gained from hot dry frying but the difficulty is not worth the effort.
i cook the garlic or g/g in the oil till i get smell of the garlic then take pan off heat and add 1 chef of base along with tom puree and the spices, give it a good stir and back on the heat till the water has nearly gone. i've tried leaving it without stirring and also tried regular stirring - it does not seem to matter much. the main key is not to cook to far otherwise burnt. also the longer you cook at this stage the darker the curry becomes.
methi if using goes in with the garlic as i like to cook it out.
i feel i'm still frying the spices but protecting them with the free water which for me makes it easier to spot when the spices are reaching the cooked out point.
i think there are some posts to search for on the subject. i don't have link though.
note on last time dish 1 smokey taste - i tried again to repeat this but failed to get it again. the 2 off CTM cooked tonight despite the swishing in 1 off both turned out exactly the same.