Curry Recipes Online
Beginners Guide => Trainee Chefs / Beginners Questions => Topic started by: goncalo on December 23, 2012, 12:22 AM
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This is something I've seen recommended a number of times, but I'm not entirely sure what to look for, could someone clarify it for me?
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gagomes - look for little pools of oil starting to appear in your base, or your curry. That's separation and you can literally take a spoon to it and all that it will scoop up is flavoured oil.
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Thanks a lot Stephen. Would you reutilise that oil then, or just scoop it out for the sake of having better tasting meal?
EDIT: spelling
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gagomes
I personally don't scoop it out but just stir into the curry
Some people on the forum scoop it out and save the oil to be used again, and the added benefit is that it reduces the oil content in the final curry, and is therefore healthier.
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This is something I've seen recommended a number of times, but I'm not entirely sure what to look for, could someone clarify it for me?
Hi Gagomes,
Perhaps the simplest way to understand this is to:
- Heat a couple of tablespoons of oil in a pan
- Make a paste of your powder spices by adding, for example, 1 tablespoons of water to 1 tsp of powdered spices (to make a paste of about the consistency of ketchup)
- Add the paste to the hot oil and fry it whilst stirring
- Initially, the spice paste will absorb the oil (probably with some sputtering)
- Keep frying it, for a minute or two, until most of the water has evaporated
- As the water evaporates, the oil will begin to "separate" from the mix (especially upon cooling)
"Separation of the oil" indicates that much of the aqueous content has evaporated. Indirectly, the inference is that the spices have been "properly cooked" (though why it should indicate this, exactly, I do not know).
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Thanks guys :)
I will probably opt for the healthier version and use the "further spiced" oil for other cooking (i.e bombay potatoes)
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"Separation of the oil" indicates that much of the aqueous content has evaporated.
Agreed. That's exactly why the oil separates, because all the water has evaporated leaving just the oil. The water creates an emulsion with the oil in the pan, when all the water has evaporated, the emulsion breaks leaving just the oil, hence oil separation.
Indirectly, the inference is that the spices have been "properly cooked" (though why it should indicate this, exactly, I do not know).
But that isn't strictly true. The oil separation doesn't indicate the spices are 'properly cooked', only that all the water has evaporated. After all, spices don't cook do they?
What are we doing when we fry spices? Where does the flavour in spices actually come from?
When we fry spices we're actually just heating them up and extracting their essential oils into our frying oil, because it's the essential oils in spices that holds the flavours we're after. So we're basically just extracting and dissolving essential oils into our frying oil because our frying oil is a very good carrier of flavours which then go on to infuse into our other cooking ingredients. This is how and why oil that has had spices fried in it takes on the colour it does - that's the dissolved essential oils.
So going back to the oil separating - it cannot indicate that the spices are cooked, because they don't cook. What it does indicate is that all the water has evaporated and that if we continue to fry the spices without any water they will quickly burn and stick to the pan. This is why we need to move on to the next stage of the recipe - to stop the spices burning.
I actually believe (and it is only my personal supposition and opinion) that this stage, when all the water has evaporated and the oil separates is the most crucial stage of the entire curry cooking process or at least how long you continue cooking before adding in the the next stage of ingredients. And is probably one of the most misunderstood stages of the entire process.
How long you can continue cooking once the oil has separated and before the spices burn and before you add in the next stage of ingredients shapes the overall flavour of the entire dish.
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A good, reasoned, rational argument, with most of which I have considerable sympathy. But.
spices don't cook do they?
This is the point at which I beg to differ. There is all the difference in the world between (say) the raw taste of turmeric and the cooked taste of turmeric. Or the raw taste (and effect on the digestive tract) of chilli and the taste (and effect) of cooked chilli. So on what basis do you argue that "spices don't cook". Are you simply being very precise, and arguing that whilst the spices don't cook the essential oils in them do, or are you maintaining that neither cook, and that any change in taste and effect must be due to something other than cooking ?
** Phil.
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So on what basis do you argue that "spices don't cook".
Hi Phil
First of all I think we have to be specific about what we're referring to here. I'm talking about spices and more specifically about the frying of those spices in hot oil. I'm not really referring to anything else. When we fry spices in hot oil, we're extracting their essential oils, there is no 'doneness' there, either we extract the oils or we don't, spices are never cooked until they're done. What's the state of 'cooked till done' of a spice?
But again a lot depends on how you define the word cook. When we refer to the word cook and done we're normally referring to something that has a definitive state of 'doneness'. Either a piece of chicken is cooked until it's done or it isn't. Spices don't have that same state, hence the difference and hence why you cannot cook spices to a state of 'doneness'. They either release their essential oils into hot oil or they don't. This applies equally to ground spices as it does to whole unground ones, the process remains the same.
When you refer to the taste of raw turmeric or chilli powder for example being quite different to their taste when fried in hot oil, of course they're going to taste different. Ones had its essential oil extracted by frying in hot oil and one hasn't. They're not really comparable are they?
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When you refer to the taste of raw turmeric or chilli powder for example being quite different to their taste when fried in hot oil, of course they're going to taste different. Ones had its essential oil extracted by frying in hot oil and one hasn't. They're not really comparable are they?
They are comparable if you do not accept that spices (or their essential oils) can cook. Cooking, by my definition, is the conversion of one set of molecules into another set by the application of energy in the form of heat. If you do not accept that spices (or their essential oils) cook in hot liquid, then if you accept my definition of "cook", exactly the same molecules will be in the dish at the end of the heating as at the beginning. And therefore it ought to taste much the same. Only if the molecules have changed will the flavour change.
And from another perspective. To make garam masala, one heats the spices dry and then grinds. If no cooking takes place during the heating, why do we bother ? Would not the garam masala taste exactly the same if we ground the raw spices ?
** Phil.
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They are comparable if you do not accept that spices (or their essential oils) can cook.
Can you define what state the extracted essential oils start from and change to then if it's your contention that some kind of change takes place within your definition of 'cooking'?
To make garam masala, one heats the spices dry and then grinds. If no cooking takes place during the heating, why do we bother ? Would not the garam masala taste exactly the same if we ground the raw spices ?
Firstly, I would dispute straight away the need to dry heat the spices prior to grinding because to do so completely changes the flavour profile of the spices themselves particularly so when a group of spices such as those used in Garam Masala are heated together. The released volatile oils mingle and merge together to create new aromas and flavours and you have the Maillard toasting and browning reaction to take into consideration as well.
Also please note than in my previous post I did say clearly I was referring to spices fried in hot oil, you're now referring to dry roasted spices, that's not frying spices in hot oil.
Once ground, dry heated spices and non-dry heated spices when fried in hot oil will still only release whatever essential oils and flavours they have into the hot oil. The existing flavours don't change to something else during the cooking process.
In short, dry roasting whole spices and grinding and non-dry roasted ground spices will have completely different flavour profiles - they're not the same flavours.
This linked article explains all this far better than I can: http://www.azeliaskitchen.net/blog/dont-dry-roast-spices/ (http://www.azeliaskitchen.net/blog/dont-dry-roast-spices/)