Curry Recipes Online
Curry Chat => Lets Talk Curry => Topic started by: George on December 19, 2012, 01:52 AM
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I set out this evening to make a simple Madras curry but I was running short of time so I used only a few of the intended ingredients before having a taste, and the flavour was amazing - one of the best curry sauces I've ever made. If I was served this sauce in a restaurant, I'd be very impressed indeed. I say ''sauce' because I didn't even get as far as adding chicken.
It took about 15 minutes to get to that point, and that includes base sauce preparation.
Here are the ingredients I used:
- base sauce, cooked in a pressure cooker for just 10 mins
- stage 2: oil (non flavoured), onions, garlic/ginger paste, mix powder and tomato
...and that's all, to get as far as the superb flavour.
It suggests to me that a simple approach is often best. I just hope I can repeat it and haven't forgotten anything. I wasn't following a recipe as such.
Here are the ingredients NOT added:
- salt (yes, no salt anywhere in that sauce - amazing!)
- fresh coriander
- methi
- lemon juice
- Worcestershire sauce
- Chicken (or anything chicken related, such as stock)
- or anything else at all
I need to repeat it before giving details of the method.
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George are u mental, fookin worc sauce in base, grow up, someone said your a chick with a dick, arseole!
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George are u mental, fookin worc sauce in base, grow up, someone said your a chick with a dick, arseole!
Very eloquent! ???
I presume that George meant that he didn't use Worcester Sauce (or any other ingredients, other than those he mentioned) to make the Madras sauce (some add Worcester Sauce when making a Madras).
Must have been a particularly piquant curry base, or mix powder, to make a Madras without adding any extra chili though?
I sometimes do very similar to make a medium curry or madras (one portion):
- couple of tablespoons of vegetable oil - hot
- 1-2 heaped tsp minced garlic - fry for 20 sec
- 2-3 tbsp tomato puree - fry for 30 sec
- 0.25tsp salt
- 1 heaped tsp spice mix/mix powder/curry powder + 0.5-2tsp chili powder - fry for 30 sec
- few tbsp curry base - reduce
- around 300g raw chicken breast - cubed
- more curry base - a little at a time - around 200-300ml in all
- briskly simmer for around 3 minutes - until sauce is of the desired consistency and oil separates
Also no Worcester Sauce for the Madras ;)
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@CA
I notice your (superb) recipes typically use raw chicken.
Do you ever pre-cook your chicken?
If not, can I ask why?
Dave
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George are u mental, fookin worc sauce in base, grow up, someone said your a chick with a dick, arseole!
A bit harsh my friend, You need to read the post properly before replying. Engage brain before typing ;)
Les
ps. Well done George :)
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i think your right there George mate sometimes less is more well done mate :D ( Ivan )
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i couldn't agree more Les i don't think theres any need for comments such as those said by frantheman
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It suggests to me that a simple approach is often best. I just hope I can repeat it and haven't forgotten anything.
I think it's less to do with the simple approach and more to do with the cooking method.
P.S. Forgive Frantheman, he's Liverpudlian and dey do dat don't dey! ;D
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George
Have you ever bought a BIR Madras (Not Morrisons)
A Magic 15 min recipe with details of ingredients that you didn't use, quite a unique approach.
Could you supply more details of your 10 min Pressure Cooker Base.
Photographs, always help to add authenticity to recipes.
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George
Have you ever bought a BIR Madras (Not Morrisons)
Condescending git!
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I presume that George meant that he didn't use Worcester Sauce (or any other ingredients, other than those he mentioned) to make the Madras sauce (some add Worcester Sauce when making a Madras).
Must have been a particularly piquant curry base, or mix powder, to make a Madras without adding any extra chili though?
I sometimes do very similar to make a medium curry or madras (one portion):
Yes, you're correct, thanks. I meant no W sauce was added to the stage 2 process. The inspiration for W sauce came from CT, so I'm not sure Frantheman's comment will go down very well with many people. Ill refrain from deleting or editing his post, since it concerns me directly.
I'm interested to hear that you sometimes cook a similar, very basic sauce. My sauce also has quite minimal ingredients. If your result is as good as mine, you must be well pleased. If my previous experience is anything to go by, I'll probably fail to repeat it. That's the fear but at least I know there are no secret ingredients. I must have hit on the right quantities and cooking time, etc, whether by luck or judgment. I'm talking about some undefined great flavour; not THE flavour as such, although it might be, for all I know.
As for W sauce in the base, I'm sure it could be added to the base, to get the same result as adding it to the stage 2 process, just for a Madras perhaps, so I'm not sure Franthemans comment is valid at all.
If I can get back to the same sensational taste result with the minimal ingredients, next time, Ill try adding elements like salt, lemon juice, fresh coriander and W sauce in a controlled fashion. Hopefully, they'll make it even better.
I think a lesson here, often mentioned by good chefs, is to taste as you go. Unless it tastes good at the early stage I got to, then why waste time and ingredients by adding anything else?
I included a bit of chilli powder in the base and a bit more in the mix powder at stage 2.
I'm also doubtful that the base is critical. The base used for my successful sauce was a bit bland and not as tasty as my usual base, so the end flavours of the final sauce don't seem likely to have come from the base. I could be wrong, though. The fine flavours came from somewhere.
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Have you ever bought a BIR Madras (Not Morrisons)
A Magic 15 min recipe with details of ingredients that you didn't use, quite a unique approach.
Could you supply more details of your 10 min Pressure Cooker Base.
Photographs, always help to add authenticity to recipes.
No, I've never bought a BIR Madras. I mentioned the word 'Madras' because that's what I was aiming for, based on your recipe. At the point when I stopped, it was just some anonymous, nameless curry sauce, except it tasted brilliant.
I'm sorry If you don't like the approach of listing what was NOT used or done. I think it helps clarify a situation, for the avoidance of doubt.
I said I'd supply further details, if I'm able to repeat it.
Photos are good, I agree. But you can't taste a photo.
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George
Have you ever bought a BIR Madras (Not Morrisons)
Condescending git!
LOL ;D, Yes, your always there with a negative and not much else.
When was the last time you posted a workable recipe.
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George
Have you ever bought a BIR Madras (Not Morrisons)
Condescending git!
Why do you say this SS? - Chewy was correct in guessing that George may have never eaten a BIR madras.
He eats Kormas doesn't he?
Paul
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Thanks for clarifying George.
Just amazed you can cook a base in 10 mins, as I use pressure cookers all the time.
cheers Chewy
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Here are the ingredients I used:
- base sauce, cooked in a pressure cooker for just 10 mins
- stage 2: oil (non flavoured), onions, garlic/ginger paste, mix powder and tomato
...and that's all, to get as far as the superb flavour.
It suggests to me that a simple approach is often best. I just hope I can repeat it and haven't forgotten anything. I wasn't following a recipe as such.
George my man this will give great overall curry flavour not spicy for sure..... stage 2: oil (non flavoured), onions, garlic/ginger paste, mix powder and tomato
However you haven't said what the base recipe was in the pressure cooker
best, Rich
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you haven't said what the base recipe was in the pressure cooker
It's the same 2 onion base I've used for years' based on MarkJ's original recipe, and not unlike the Viceroy base:
I'm sure the base wasn't key, though, although it can't have hurt.
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hewy was correct in guessing that George may have never eaten a BIR madras.
He eats Kormas doesn't he?
I eat lots of things but haven't ordered a BIR korma for years' so your information is a bit out of date.
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Just amazed you can cook a base in 10 mins, as I use pressure cookers all the time.
How long would you leave it on pressure for? I just guessed at 10 mins, and used that, because I think 20-30 mins is adequate for normal cooking of base sauce.
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10 mins for a 2 onion base in a pressure cooker doesn't sound unrealistic when you consider CA's 2 onion base takes only 40 mins on a low simmer.
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@CA
I notice your (superb) recipes typically use raw chicken.
Do you ever pre-cook your chicken?
If not, can I ask why?
Dave
Someone might have more to add but I've found that cooking from raw tastes the same as pre-cooking. I can even remember in one of the Zaal videos, the chef cooked from raw because they weren't cooking for customers.
I reckon a standard dish takes about 5 mins using pre-cooked but around 10 or more depending on size to cook from raw. Unless anyone knows better I'd imagine it was simply for speed. In fact if I was honest I'd say raw is better but I'd need to do a controlled test to be sure
I like cooking Madras like this to differentiate from the recipes using Tikka.
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Unless George is willing to tell us what was different about his cooking technique or whatever, this thread is a waste of time. So far we know George created a curry sauce that he liked (a lot) by a method he is not prepared (as yet) to divulge and he was aiming for a curry that he has never tasted in his life (BIR Madras).
This is just what cr0 needs right now! :-\
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Unless George is willing to tell us what was different about his cooking technique or whatever, this thread is a waste of time. So far we know George created a curry sauce that he liked (a lot) by a method he is not prepared (as yet) to divulge and he was aiming for a curry that he has never tasted in his life (BIR Madras). This is just what cr0 needs right now! :-\
Sometimes it's difficult to see the wood for the trees. George's post is interesting and provocative (in a positive sense) and lacks any of the negativity that characterises some of his other contributions. So on that basis alone I do not think this thread is a waste of time -- it is, rather, an opportunity for us all to put behind us any former misunderstands and focus instead on the positive. I for one am delighted that George feels he has had success, and furthermore that he has achieved that success without needing to spend hours in the kitchen. It has also led on to equally interesting side-discussions, such as whether pre-cooking chicken adds anything to the finished dish or is simply a time-saver in the frenetic world of the BIR kitchen. Christmas approaches, it is the time for goodwell to all men. Well done, George, and may you have equal success in the future.
** Phil.
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Someone might have more to add but I've found that cooking from raw tastes the same as pre-cooking. I can even remember in one of the Zaal videos, the chef cooked from raw because they weren't cooking for customers.
I reckon a standard dish takes about 5 mins using pre-cooked but around 10 or more depending on size to cook from raw. Unless anyone knows better I'd imagine it was simply for speed. In fact if I was honest I'd say raw is better but I'd need to do a controlled test to be sure
I like cooking Madras like this to differentiate from the recipes using Tikka.
I don't cook any of the tikka-based recipes, simply because I prefer my BIR-style curries in their traditional form (the use of chicken tikka in a curry is a fairly recent innovation in the evolution of BIR cuisine, with the exception of the execrable CTM which put me off such dishes for life). As to whether to part-pre-cook or cook from raw, I remain ambivalent : sometimes cooking from raw seems to lead to under-flavoured chicken, but not always. What I can say is that part-pre-cooking does allow for a more complex final dish, because it is possible to part pre-cook the chicken in spices that will not otherwise feature in the final dish, and thereby gain additional layers of flavour.
** Phil.
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Do you ever pre-cook your chicken? If not, can I ask why?
Hi Dave/UC,
Yes, I sometimes precook my chicken (particularly if I have loads of it to cook). I'm sure it adds different flavours but can also (in my opinion and experience) make it rather dry and overcooked.
Overall, I find that any advantages (e.g. different flavours and texture) outweigh the faff, time and additional expense of precooking it (for the home cook, at least).
Cubes of raw chicken breast take literally a couple of minutes to cook. So that's what I mostly prefer to do. I don't think precooking it particularly adds to the "BIR" experience.
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Do you ever pre-cook your chicken? If not, can I ask why?
Hi Dave/UC,
Yes, I sometimes precook my chicken (particularly if I have loads of it to cook). I'm sure it adds different flavours but can also (in my opinion and experience) make it rather dry and overcooked.
Overall, I find that any advantages (e.g. different flavours and texture) outweigh the faff, time and additional expense of precooking it (for the home cook, at least).
Cubes of raw chicken breast take literally a couple of minutes to cook. So that's what I mostly prefer to do. I don't think precooking it particularly adds to the "BIR" experience.
Makes sense CA but at what stage would you add the chicken? At the first ladle of base stage?
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Do you ever pre-cook your chicken? If not, can I ask why?
Hi Dave/UC,
Yes, I sometimes precook my chicken (particularly if I have loads of it to cook). I'm sure it adds different flavours but can also (in my opinion and experience) make it rather dry and overcooked.
Overall, I find that any advantages (e.g. different flavours and texture) outweigh the faff, time and additional expense of precooking it (for the home cook, at least).
Cubes of raw chicken breast take literally a couple of minutes to cook. So that's what I mostly prefer to do. I don't think precooking it particularly adds to the "BIR" experience.
CA 100 percent on the nail - it just makes it quicker for a TA / restaurant or business if its precooked we do 70 kilos a day of precooked chicken whether it be normal or tikka - and this is NO made up bullshit. We cut up and marinate then boil for ordinary everyday. It is used straight away with us - in the TA / restaurant i would recommend cooking off then covering NOT letting the meat rest in the open, it stays soft not dry. However the knack to all of this is NOT boiling the chicken for 20 mins but getting the water to the boil for say 6 mins turn off let rest in water for a few mins then take out.
best, Rich
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Unless George is willing to tell us what was different about his cooking technique or whatever, this thread is a waste of time. So far we know George created a curry sauce that he liked (a lot) by a method he is not prepared (as yet) to divulge and he was aiming for a curry that he has never tasted in his life (BIR Madras).
This is just what cr0 needs right now! :-\
Its no different to Uncle with his naan bread recipe, where he wants to check a few things before going into further details. I guess excitement comes into it, also. I just wanted to tell everyone where I got to all of a sudden. Good suggestions have already been made, so I hope the early post is useful. As it is, your post is so negative, that I'm now thinking it's more trouble than it's worth to say any more. Given I'm talking about flavours well-ahead of any recipe I tried from CBM, Abdul, Underover or any other book, perhaps I should sell the recipe, instead.
PS I hadn't read Phil's nice post before being provoked into going 'negative' again.
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I don't have a pressure cooker George but look forward to seeing what you did. I might consider getting one as that is an area of cooking I have not yet explored.
I sometimes use a process to make a simple base whereby I fry lots of onions until soft then just cover with water and place a lid on and boil hard, until the water has all but gone, stir, and repeat until the onions are more or less breaking down. It takes about 20 mins and produces great results.
I don't pre-cook chicken, I just don't see the need to or rather, I have never cooked enough to warrant doing so. I do feel that pre-cook meat does add to the dish, depending on the amount you flavour it of course. I often cook mine in a very hot oven (250c), place in a dish with a a little mix powder and mustard oil, cover with foil and pop in oven for 10-15 mins.
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It seems strange I know but I can't see why precooked chicken would add another layer of flavour (unless there was something in the precook recipe different from what was in the curry recipe). I would think that precooking would seal the meat, whereas raw would add a slight stockiness into the finished dish and allow the sauce to be absorbed bt the chicken.
Why not just marinade the chicken?
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George,
You really should try harder to understand the criticisms that are sometimes levied at you (I think most members probably take a very deep breath and decide to shut up instead).
You have obviously irked quite a few members here.
You almost always come across as being negative, emotive and provocative in most of your posts.
You often haul out the "I am a victim" plea when someone challenges you or your posts.
You have never, to the best of my knowledge, posted a properly defined recipe or a photo of your efforts (in all your time of being on this forum).
You have often criticised others for posting "work in progress" (you words not mine).
You have often criticised others for their lack in precision in their recipes.
I also am amazed that you (still) have never bought a BIR Madras. But you post about your "success" in producing one (without supplying much positive detail).
I also would like to see you post HOW you made it (with precise details on ingredients, timings, etc, as you demand of others).
I would also like to see you post photos of your successes. A video would be tremendous (but possibly to much to ask or expect)!
My views, in a nutshell. 8)
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at what stage would you add the chicken? At the first ladle of base stage?
To be honest, I don't think it really makes a whole load of difference.
I prefer to add it with the powdered spices and coat the chicken with the spices and "seal it" (which flavours the chicken and also helps prevent the spices from burning). Then add the tomato puree and curry base.
But I sometimes add the curry base, first, and then the chicken. I don't really notice much difference in the end result.
It is these types of significant differences in technique, but the subtle - mostly imperceptible - differences in results, that leads me to believe that "technique" really isn't as important as the underlying nature of the curry base....or spiced oil...or stock.... :P
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...I can't see why precooked chicken would add another layer of flavour...
You won't notice so much through the curry as a whole but more so when you bite into the meat. Certainly you can tell the difference when tikka has been added and regular pre-cook meat will taste different to freshly cooked (assuming that it has been quickly cooked as CA mentioned doing with his). But whether it makes that discernible difference to you is all personal choice. I'd be happy either way as long as it's in a curry. ;)
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It seems strange I know but I can't see why precooked chicken would add another layer of flavour (unless there was something in the precook recipe different from what was in the curry recipe).
Wel, that was the very point I was making :
What I can say is that part-pre-cooking does allow for a more complex final dish, because it is possible to part pre-cook the chicken in spices that will not otherwise feature in the final dish, and thereby gain additional layers of flavour.
Why not just marinade the chicken?
My mind has been working on exactly the same lines.
** Phil.
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Some thoughts here for me too.
Pre cooking is a pain in the arse.
I buy my chicken breast in bulk for Smithfield Market so have to freeze it.
If I then pre cook it means defrosting first. I then pre cook in bulk of 10 / 12 large breasts = about 3kg .
much of the precooked then has to be re frozen which means when it is again defrosted and turned into something yummy, if there is some left over it cannot be frozen again whereas not pre cooking would allow me to freeze finished meals. ( not perhaps always necessary if I gauge my quantities right which I normally do )
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Restaurants pre-cook the meat for two main reasons. First to slightly speed up the process of getting the meal on the table (or takeaway container) and to give the meat a flavour different to that of the main sauce. And, second, to avoid having to handle raw meat when cooking the final dishes.
No one says you have to do it this way (but your end result may differ from the BIR curry if you don't).
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George. Are you here for the 10 minute argument or is it the full half hour?
Rob :)
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Some thoughts here for me too.
Pre cooking is a pain in the arse.
I buy my chicken breast in bulk for Smithfield Market so have to freeze it.
If I then pre cook it means defrosting first. I then pre cook in bulk of 10 / 12 large breasts = about 3kg .
much of the precooked then has to be re frozen which means when it is again defrosted and turned into something yummy, if there is some left over it cannot be frozen again whereas not pre cooking would allow me to freeze finished meals. ( not perhaps always necessary if I gauge my quantities right which I normally do )
Now I always find it better to pre-cook. I usually buy a 5kg pack of Halal Chicken Breast from Makro at around
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I usually buy a 5kg pack of Halal Chicken Breast from Makro at around
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Now I always find it better to pre-cook. I usually buy a 5kg pack of Halal Chicken Breast from Makro at around
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I usually buy a 5kg pack of Halal Chicken Breast from Makro at around
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I guess it may not be Free Range, but given the current economical climate of my bank account, I have no option... :/
Understood.
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You may be missing that vital BIR taste with such good chicken Phil
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You may be missing that vital BIR taste with such good chicken Phil
Or not ! The lack of flavour in battery birds (poor little s@ds) is really noticeable, and if there is any CR0 member who has never tried a free-range bird then I can only urge him or her to do so. Organic I can take or leave, but the difference between the flavour of battery and free-range is absolutely obvious. I buy free-range for ethucal reasons, but my taste-buds get all the benefit.
** Phil.
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was supposed to put a ;) after my post was ment to be a joke
never mind ;)
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You may be missing that vital BIR taste with such good chicken Phil
Or not ! The lack of flavour in battery birds (poor little s@ds) is really noticeable, and if there is any CR0 member who has never tried a free-range bird then I can only urge him or her to do so. Organic I can take or leave, but the difference between the flavour of battery and free-range is absolutely obvious. I buy free-range for ethucal reasons, but my taste-buds get all the benefit.
** Phil.
With the greatest of respect, there is no way you could back up that statement in a blind tasting, chicken is chicken is chicken. If you cook meat correctly from room temperature you would never notice the difference. ... apart from corn fed chicken, which is cr*p, and tough, and expensive :)
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With the greatest of respect, there is no way you could back up that statement in a blind tasting, chicken is chicken is chicken.
With equally great respect, I completely disagree. All sorts of provocative responses come to mind, but this forum has had far too many flame wars of late so let me try to disagree in a constructive way. I have eaten (before I knew better) battery chicken, and I have eaten a great deal of free-range chicken. There is just no comparison. Battery birds lack all flavour, and could almost be replaced with textured soja protein, so little do they contribute to the final flavour of the meal. A free-range bird, on the other hand, simply oozes flavour, and not even someone lacking 90% of their taste buds could fail to tell the difference. A meal (if one is a carnivore, as I am) is only as good as the meat that it contains. Do you know why Paris is the epicentre of French haute cuisine ? Because it is the place where the best ingredients and the best chefs come together. Further north, you get one; further south, you get the other; but in Paris they come together and the food is out of this world. Does M. Blanc jr. buy, cook and serve battery fowl ? Of course not. He buys the best local free-range birds that he can, knowing that only by so doing will the quality of the ingredients match the quality of his cooking. Enough. Diatribe ends.
** Phil.
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Wow way off topic now ???
We now have 5 pages of what ?? ;)
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@CA
I notice your (superb) recipes typically use raw chicken.
Do you ever pre-cook your chicken?
If not, can I ask why?
Dave
Thanks for all the constructive and interesting responses; in hindsight it would have been more better if I'd started a new thread. I have a follow up so I'll do that in another thread.
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I know a lot of people have been understandibly antagonised by some of George's comments :-\, however I do get the impression that he's after tasting something special, so if you've got some kind of breakthrough going on George, I for one, am interested in hearing about the findings ;)
W