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Author Topic: Spices First or Base Sauce First?  (read 7,842 times)

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The discussion revolves around the technique of adding spices to the base sauce versus frying the spices first when cooking curries. Some participants argue that frying spices enhances their flavor, while others believe that adding them to a base sauce can yield a more mellow taste. There is no clear consensus, as opinions vary on the effectiveness of each method, with some suggesting that frying can lead to bitterness if not done carefully, while others advocate for the Taz method as a beginner-friendly approach. Overall, the community acknowledges the importance of technique and personal preference in achieving the desired flavor profile in curries.

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Offline 976bar

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Spices First or Base Sauce First?
« on: September 06, 2010, 11:51 AM »
I was just looking at Josh's Chicken Jalfrezi and noticed that he had added the spices to the base in the pan, rather than fry the spices first.

Does anyone else do this ? and if so, what difference does it make to the final dish?

Does it become a more mellow dish or more subtle.

The reason I ask is that I made a Chicken Tikka Jalfrezi for my friend last Friday and he text me last night saying, "very nice and to a bit like a curry house one but more subtle".

I need to ask him exactly what that means, but I do find that when I fry the spices first in my curry, I always find the curry comes out more harsh than it would from a BIR. I'm wondering if I am cooking the spices too much and they are burning or whether I just haven't got the spice mix right. Maybe I will try some base first and then add the spices to see if this makes a difference........

What are your views on this please?
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Offline solarsplace

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Re: Spices First or Base Sauce First?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 12:43 PM »
Hi

I would have thought that adding the spices to a pan full of base would lead to boiling the spices rather than frying them.

It would almost certainly lead to a more mellow flavour as most of the flavour of the spices is released during the frying process.

Are you sure you are not burning your spices? that can lead to a bitter taste even if only a little overdone? try adding a small amount of curry sauce to the spices as you fry them to help prevent burning.

CHeers
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Offline PaulP

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Re: Spices First or Base Sauce First?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 01:54 PM »
Hi 976bar,

In my opinion the powdered spices cook just fine in a rapidly reducing oily mixture of base and oil. The Taz method uses this technique and the spices cook ok. I think the key is that there is oil present otherwise you would just be boiling the spices and the aromatic compounds won't dissolve in water.

In my "50 great curries of India" book the author goes into some detail about the frying times of the individual spices e.g. cummin, corriander, turmeric etc. How this applies to a mixture of these spices I really don't know and I think there are a lot of myths spread about Indian cooking.

I think where you do need to fry is when trying to brown garlic, or frying whole spices.

Paul.
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Offline 976bar

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Re: Spices First or Base Sauce First?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 02:14 PM »
Hi PaulP,

Thanks for that, and so in your opinion how long roughly should one fry spices in oil for approx? 30 seconds? 1 minute? less?
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Offline Secret Santa

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Re: Spices First or Base Sauce First?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 05:27 PM »
Quote from: PaulP on September 06, 2010, 01:54 PM
In my opinion the powdered spices cook just fine in a rapidly reducing oily mixture of base and oil. The Taz method uses this technique and the spices cook ok.

I tried the Taz method and I don't agree. The Taz method is great for beginners at BIR curry cooking because it's almost impossible to burn the spices but it definitely mutes the intensity of the spices when compared to frying them first.

The method is definitely worth a try though.
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Offline PaulP

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Re: Spices First or Base Sauce First?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 08:54 PM »
I normally fry the garlic or g/g in my wok, then take off heat, add diluted tom puree and spices and stir well . Then I get the wok back on heat and after probably around a minute I add some base and crank up the heat.

I've never seen a BIR chef on video frying powdered spices in just oil for any length of time. Even for a traditional bhuna the spices are fried with the meat. In this case the meat holds back the oil temperature, as does anything containing water.

I might be talking crap but I don't think powdered mixed spices will last long before burning if heated in just oil.

Paul.
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Offline Razor

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Re: Spices First or Base Sauce First?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2010, 05:50 PM »
My method;

Heat the oil for about 40 seconds on high

Add the g/g paste and stir with the back of the chef's spoon until the g/g paste starts to go golden.

Pan off the heat, and add the spices, stirring all the time for 30 seconds.

Pan back on low heat, and continue to stir for a further 30 seconds.

Precooked meat in, followed by 100ml of base.

Crank up the heat to full and reduce base.

Add the next 100ml, and reduce once more.

Add the last 100ml, and reduce to desired consistancy.

Not once has this method failed me (touch wood) ::)

Ray :)
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Offline JerryM

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Re: Spices First or Base Sauce First?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2010, 08:38 PM »
976bar,

spices 1st for defo for spice curries ie madras, jalfrezi and don't matter for "ingredient" curries ie tikka masala, korma.

problem is it ain't easy to master the frying - i spent 3 months perfecting it.

after that i realised that adding free water is the way to go - either in the tome puree or just a little base (1 chef). i've stopped watering the puree as my local TA don't do it - i just use some base.

https://curry-recipes.co.uk/curry/index.php?topic=2968.0
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